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 "Dirty" Ron FIRED! Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2012 :  17:41:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, well, well......after all this chat and speculation, apparently it happened about a half hour ago!

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=389346

This article says Carlysle and Dallas Eakins are the frontrunners for the position, but on the radio, i heard it was already leaked that the job is Randy Carlysles? Not sure how valid that report is thought?


Leaf fans, you guys finally gonna stop crying about your coach? Lol

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2012 :  17:43:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think Burke reads this board.

No surprise if he hires Carlyle, given the number of times he's gone back to the ANA well for trades and hires since he went to TOR.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
808 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2012 :  17:57:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is what happens to those who believe that Brian Burke is Santa Claus. Everybody knows that Burkie is the Easter Bunny. Go easy on the chocolate this year, Mr. Carlyle.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.
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Guest4377
( )

Posted - 03/02/2012 :  18:00:15  Reply with Quote
Jeez, Burke just gave Wilson a contract extension during the Christmas break.

It was reported to be for only one year, which was/is not a ringing endorsement for a coach. Just enough to say, good job so far this season, but you better keep it going.

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Shepsky
Rookie



Canada
211 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2012 :  18:55:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alex you beat me to starting this thread. After only a week or so after I started the thread about firing Wilson. maybe Burke is a member on PUH.... the power that this site has.....
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Shepsky
Rookie



Canada
211 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2012 :  18:56:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
and NHL.com has Carlyle already named as replacement, and says he'll be behind the bench tomorrow night VS the habs.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  06:33:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am really surprised - and I think most Leaf fans are too - at the timing of this firing.

I think most expected Ron to be ridden out for the rest of the season . . . Burke does not like firing coaches mid-season (his words - but who does?) and he is a stubborn dude. And since Wilson wasn't fired by the trade deadline . . . I thought he'd stay until the summer.

To me, it's the right move, just too late. It'll probably be too late to salvage the season, whereas a half dozen games ago, a few of these losses surely could have been wins under a new voice, a new system, and with the players knowing that they must be accountable.

I'll say this about it though - Burke must have done it at the time he did it, thinking also that he didn't want to lose the opportunity to have Carlysle (will have to get used to spelling that, cripes) behind the bench.

And Carlysle does have a great record, with very good pedigree - better than Wilson's probably, considering the cup win.

I hope he's the right guy. He has a pretty god defensive corps, IMHO, that is playing WAY below its abilities . . . hopefully he is the guy to straighten them out.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  06:35:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And just to add to the timing of this firing,

Just before a Sat night? Hockey Night in Canada, Leafs vs Habs?!? Wow, talk about the perfect storm for media coverage . . . and pressure.

It'll be a loud, obnoxious pressure cooker of a start for Carlysle, that is for sure.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



701 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  06:43:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought too that Ron Wilson was gonna finish the season. I was also hoping for Dallas Eakins to get the job. Now we will see who's fault it was for the Leafs defensive woes.

Randy Carlyle, don't make us eat our words

I think the damage for this season is already done and that the Leafs will be outside looking in at the end, but hopefully next season we will see a good system in place which would result in more consistency (and not the type of consistency they are showing lately)
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  08:10:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
And Carlysle does have a great record, with very good pedigree - better than Wilson's probably, considering the cup win.



I don't know if I agree with that. Carlyle has coached about one third of the games (all with ANA) that Wilson did and has roughly the same winning percentage. He also follows the (what should be) disturbing pattern of not being able to have post-season success with what should be talented teams.

Carlyle benefitted from one of the best teams in memory in his cup winning season, and while I have no doubt he was a big part of that win (and of shaping the tough attitude of the team), that team was a powerhouse - the Leafs are nowhere close to that sort of talent. Hell, the Canucks are nowhere near that sort of talent.

If you take away Carlyle's one Stanley Cup year, you can see that he was similar to Wilson, in that he was unable to take a (still) very good ANA team past the second round of the playoffs, and missed them once, in his final 4 years behind the bench. ANA, along with SJ, have been perennial "mysteries of the west" over the last 5 years - how can such good teams fail to have real success in the playoffs?

However, no doubt a change was needed, and TOR will probably thrive initially under Carlyle. Time will tell if this was a good choice or not.

Edited by - nuxfan on 03/03/2012 08:11:50
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  08:46:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

I am really surprised - and I think most Leaf fans are too - at the timing of this firing.


Lol, not just Leaf fans Slozo, i heard the news on the radio when i was driving home from work, approx a half hour after posting that Wilson would prob be fired sometime between the end of the season and the start of next!

quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I think most expected Ron to be ridden out for the rest of the season . . . Burke does not like firing coaches mid-season (his words - but who does?) and he is a stubborn dude. And since Wilson wasn't fired by the trade deadline . . . I thought he'd stay until the summer.

The surprising part here is what guest4377 hit on, that being the fact that BB gave WIlson an extension at Christmas. Only 1 year, but still.

quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I'll say this about it though - Burke must have done it at the time he did it, thinking also that he didn't want to lose the opportunity to have Carlysle (will have to get used to spelling that, cripes) behind the bench.



Slozo, not sure if you were copying me or not as i believe i was the one to originally spell it wrong, but apparently it is Carlyle with no "s"?

Anyway, I just hope now that the Leafs finish approx .500 for the remainder of the season. If they continue as is, or worse, i'll have a summer of Beans stirring the Leaf pot about how the coach is not the problem. If they run off 15 wins, i'll have to listen to a summer of Leaf fans yapping about how Wilson should have been fired long ago, wait till next year, etc.

Note to Leaf fans, i didn't say anything about a parade.

Edited by - Alex116 on 03/03/2012 08:49:43
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  09:06:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
YaaaaaHooooooo
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  09:57:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with both Alex and Slozo in that the timing of this is shocking. It's difficult to think that the coaching change will have an impact in just 18 games. I would think it normally takes around 20 games for a system to actually click.

I watched the press conference and heard both Carlyle and Burke use the wording, "salvage the season." I think that is a tall order for anyone and I still don't think Carlyle is a big upgrade.

That being said, rarely do fans have the opportunity to ask for something and get it. There are a number of folks on this site alone who have talked at lengths about Wilson getting fired and Carlyle coming in.

So we have an 18 game stretch to see what happens. I will tell you this: I the Leafs make the playoffs, I will gladly eat my words and make a length post to express how wrong I was.

At the same time, the Leaf nation should also be ready for the 'I told you so" post that I will also gladly deliver when the Leafs miss the playoffs.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  11:20:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15


So we have an 18 game stretch to see what happens. I will tell you this: I the Leafs make the playoffs, I will gladly eat my words and make a length post to express how wrong I was.

At the same time, the Leaf nation should also be ready for the 'I told you so" post that I will also gladly deliver when the Leafs miss the playoffs.



Ahhhh, this is exactly the kind of thing i was talking about, and expect it to go on all summer!

Beans, i am impressed that you are willing to voluntarily make a post about how wrong you were, if in fact that happens. Very honorable of you

I'm mostly surprised because of Burke's stubborness more than anything however the fact he extended Wilson at Christmas weighs into it too. While it is a bit of a longshot, the Leafs do in fact have a shot at qualifying for the playoffs and it will be interesting to see just how they respond, starting tonight. Teams have in the past, rallied around a new coach. Question is, if they do, is it simply because of a change, or is it really them showing just how happy they are to have a new boss on board?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  12:36:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
I'm mostly surprised because of Burke's stubborness more than anything



As Vancouver fans, we should be used to the Burkie stubbornness...
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  12:55:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rally around a new coach or not I think it's a stretch for the Leafs to make it. Considering in the past 5 seasons it has taken more than 90 pts to make the playoffs every year except one. In fact, the average pt total of all 8th placed teams (both East and West) in the past 5 years is 93 pts.

With that number setting the bar the Leafs need AT LEAST 25 pts in their final 18 games to even imagine having a sniff. That means, although not completely mathmatically accurate, anything more than 4 losses means they are out.

I don't see the Leafs winning 13 of 18 games and that is the bare minimum to scratch into the playoffs. I would think it is closer to 15 games they need to win. They don't all have to be wins, but they also can't afford to many OTL's or they will simply run out of road.

I'm just going to stack the deck a little more:

-7 of the next 10 games are on the road including 5 in a row
-8 of their last 18 games are against teams currently in playoff positions
-Only 4 of their last 18 games are against teams below them in the standings.

However, the one beacon of hope is that 5 of their games are against the 3 teams currently right ahead of them. One against Wash, 2 against,TB, and 2 against Buff. They alos have a game against FLA in there and that division bounces around like a ball of flubber.

Here is the Leafs remaining schedule. I fear the Leaf Nation will be looking at a lottery pick before the end of the 5 game road trip.

@ Montreal
Boston
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
@Washington
@Florida
@ Tampa Bay
@ Ottawa
@Boston
New York Islanders
@ New Jersey
New York
Carolina
Philadelphia
Buffalo
@Buffalo
Tampa Bay
@ Montreal


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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  12:58:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Here is the Leafs remaining schedule. I fear the Leaf Nation will be looking at a lottery pick before the end of the 5 game road trip.




Well then, time to tank and get a better pick!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  13:04:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Here is the Leafs remaining schedule. I fear the Leaf Nation will be looking at a lottery pick before the end of the 5 game road trip.




Well then, time to tank and get a better pick!



To that point, is that such a bad idea?? I mean, even if the Leafs squeek into the playoffs I don't see them able to beat any of the east playoff teams in a 7 game series. So what is the value of making it??


I think the Leafs would have supreme value with a lottery pick. It could be used to make a trade or draw a player. There are some very good centres available as well as CBJ still having Nash as a potential trade.

How about Nash to TO in a deal involving a lottery pick, which would give CBJ 2 of the top 5 picks????


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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  13:50:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was actually serious when i said that Beans! I agree, would CBJ and TO be able to make out a trade involving the pick? It's not supposed to be the deepest of drafts so maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for TO to package up this pick with some spare parts and a Kadri?
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Shepsky
Rookie



Canada
211 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  17:19:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
wouldn't intentionally throwing games for a higher position degrade the quality and integrity of the league?
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Guest4220
( )

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  18:43:39  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
To that point, is that such a bad idea?? I mean, even if the Leafs squeek into the playoffs I don't see them able to beat any of the east playoff teams in a 7 game series. So what is the value of making it??

One word. Money.
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
333 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  19:37:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i wax expeting this to happen ( if at all) next season at the least. The fact that it happened now. Just wow. I personally think burke and carloly must say salvage the season or leads fans would call for both their heads. I personally think burke is thinking scrap the season and start over with a new coach and system. Get the players playing carlyles system so they are ready for next year. If the leafs make it to the play offs awesome but i think they are peeping for next year.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2012 :  07:23:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by slozo
And Carlysle does have a great record, with very good pedigree - better than Wilson's probably, considering the cup win.



I don't know if I agree with that. Carlyle has coached about one third of the games (all with ANA) that Wilson did and has roughly the same winning percentage. He also follows the (what should be) disturbing pattern of not being able to have post-season success with what should be talented teams.

Carlyle benefitted from one of the best teams in memory in his cup winning season, and while I have no doubt he was a big part of that win (and of shaping the tough attitude of the team), that team was a powerhouse - the Leafs are nowhere close to that sort of talent. Hell, the Canucks are nowhere near that sort of talent.

If you take away Carlyle's one Stanley Cup year, you can see that he was similar to Wilson, in that he was unable to take a (still) very good ANA team past the second round of the playoffs, and missed them once, in his final 4 years behind the bench. ANA, along with SJ, have been perennial "mysteries of the west" over the last 5 years - how can such good teams fail to have real success in the playoffs?

However, no doubt a change was needed, and TOR will probably thrive initially under Carlyle. Time will tell if this was a good choice or not.



Anaheim had a great year under Carlyle, yes. After he inherited a pretty good team, he coached them in 05/06 to the Conference Championships, and then the next year, the cup. The year they won the cup the Red Wings were at their best, and in fact THEY were the juggernaut team, winning an amazing 50 games. And, in the Conference Championships, Carlyle coached his team to a win against those mighty Red Wings. And in the finals, they met a stacked Sens team that had run over everyone in the east, and had the best line in hockey.

In 05/06, Carlyle helped develop and coach the emergence of Getzlaf and Perry and at the time Kunitz, btw.

Dude - don't sell accomplishments short. I've really had enough of this "he had a great team" argument when talking about coaches who won the cup . . . how many great teams didn't win the cup that year? If Detroit had won as the huge favourite, would the argument have been that anyone could have been their coach and won? It's all rather silly . . . in the end, any of those top ranked teams can win it, and you need all kinds of luck, top player performances, AND some good coaching.

Randy Carlyle has a great winning percentage as a coach in the regular season AND the playoffs, period. He is obviously a good coach, just going by his accomplishments. Sure, he has just done that with one team, and it was a team with a very good core, no one is arguing otherwise - a much better/more elite core than the current Leafs, of course.

But who is to say that Carlyle can't coach a less talented team to their full potential? Based on resume and how Carlyle - despite some supposed reputation as a taskmaster - has developed young talent on his past rosters . . . I give him very good odds to succeed on the young and developing Leafs.

Heck, I even gave Ron Wilson that chance, back when he started - even though he didn't ever win the cup, and didn't seem as proficient at developing/managing young talent.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest4889
( )

Posted - 03/04/2012 :  07:57:11  Reply with Quote
Slozo...I'm suprised...that it didn't happen a LONG time ago. Dirty Ron just wasn't made for these times. No way any top flight free agent was going to Toronto with Dirty Ron in tow. That Burke didn't make this move at the end of the 2009-10 season...or at least at the completion LAST 'year', in spite of the phantom finish...sits on HIS assessment report.

I'm not certain that Carlysle is the perfect man for the situation either but looking forward...pieces have to be added and/or changed so at least he'll have the chance to put his finger print on the direction Burke takes.

The Leafs need a first line centre and a top 6 power forward. They need a solid shut-down defenceman...and they either need a top flight goalie or a new goalie coach who has something other than a tombstone-like positioning philosophy only.

Those 4 pieces weren't coming. Not with Wilson behind the bench.

Now...let's see what 'Burkey' can pull out of his hat. We've already seen what he could pull out of his pants.

It'll be a miracle if they make the eastern top 8 this year. Next year? They better make it...and last at least a round in the search for the holy spitoon...or he'll be back sharing life's journey with Dirty Ron.

Lee Marshall
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2012 :  09:52:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans..Glen Healy would be a big upgrade from Ron ( moron ) Wilson
Its only been 1 game but when is the last time TO gave up 1 goal ??
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
808 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2012 :  13:28:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

i wax expeting this to happen ( if at all) next season at the least. The fact that it happened now. Just wow. I personally think burke and carloly must say salvage the season or leads fans would call for both their heads. I personally think burke is thinking scrap the season and start over with a new coach and system.



I have to agree with this entire post, with the exception of all but the final sentence (still trying to decipher the rest, and who carloly is). Wilson is Burke's scapegoat. The season is lost.

Carlyle is not a savior. It's 'wait 'til next year' again, with a caveat.

Nobody told Brian Burke that Ron Wilson was no good until that Chicago game at the ACC. Actually, this is not true. It has probably been in his head for a long time that Dirty Ron (I like that, too!) was likely not the one to lead this team. He (DRon) is a close friend, and thus, was difficult to brush off.

Burkie took the route of saving face rather than ride out the season with the team and coach of his own devises. He even used the excuse that he wanted to spare Wilson's feelings after the anti-Wilson chants at ACC.

Nobody will blame Carlyle when the Leafs miss the playoffs. So Burke is off the hook. I can't help but wonder if the pressure of this market is actually getting to Burke. For a big talker, he seems to have softened recently.

Anyway, I have a prediction that might bother some Leafers.

"At some point prior to the year 2013, we will hear the ACC faithful chant, "FIRE BURKE"!

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2012 :  19:13:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Its not that Burke has done a bad job with the leafs Oil...do you remember what he had to work with when he arrived there ??

Sundin not waiving his ntc really set the leafs back bigtime. His top line to bargain with was N. Antropov, M. Stagen and Pony...can you imagine ??

Kaberle was well...you judge, McCabe certainly was not an asset at the time, guys like Kubina ( 5m per) and Blake ( 5m per) were almost un - moveable. Then there was red light Raycroft.

Toronto at the time did not have 1 single blue chip prospect in the CHL or abroad in any league..NOT ONE !!!

Their AHL team didn`t have 1...NOT ONE player worth bringing up to the NHL !!!

Put yourself in that position with those assets to work with and think about what you would have to do to build an hockey team.

Right now the leafs are 3 - 4 peices away from being a really, really good hockey team.....

Their AHL team are 1st in their division with several players really coming into their own.

They do now have several CHL players who can possibly blossom into good NHL`ers

This turn - around took alot longer ( and is still taking place ) than many leaf fans thought, but it is happening.

No - one, not even Merlin can turn crap into gold. This was what was expected of Burke from many in leaf land. The future is brighter right now for the leafs than it has been in decades.....it may not seem that way with where they are in the standings....but they will get better over the next couple of seasons, you can bank on it.

Anyway, its off to the big - land in the morning, chat again in another month.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
808 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2012 :  19:31:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Its not that Burke has done a bad job with the leafs Oil...do you remember what he had to work with when he arrived there ??



What year was that?

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  05:07:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4889

Slozo...I'm suprised...that it didn't happen a LONG time ago. Dirty Ron just wasn't made for these times. No way any top flight free agent was going to Toronto with Dirty Ron in tow. That Burke didn't make this move at the end of the 2009-10 season...or at least at the completion LAST 'year', in spite of the phantom finish...sits on HIS assessment report.

I'm not certain that Carlysle is the perfect man for the situation either but looking forward...pieces have to be added and/or changed so at least he'll have the chance to put his finger print on the direction Burke takes.

The Leafs need a first line centre and a top 6 power forward. They need a solid shut-down defenceman...and they either need a top flight goalie or a new goalie coach who has something other than a tombstone-like positioning philosophy only.

Those 4 pieces weren't coming. Not with Wilson behind the bench.

Now...let's see what 'Burkey' can pull out of his hat. We've already seen what he could pull out of his pants.

It'll be a miracle if they make the eastern top 8 this year. Next year? They better make it...and last at least a round in the search for the holy spitoon...or he'll be back sharing life's journey with Dirty Ron.

Lee Marshall



Great post, I totally agree.

As high as I have been on many things that Burke has done . . . it is, as you say, on HIM that he kept Wilson around for this year; extended his contract; and fired him too late to probably be of consequence in salvaging this year. Those are his poor decision - probably based more on his loyalty and friendship, then on pragmatism and hockey-sense.

I hope, going forward, that the newfound pressure that will surely turn its ugly head toward Burke if failure continues - I hope this new pressure still allows Burke to make the right moves for this hockey club.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
333 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  05:08:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO

quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

i wax expeting this to happen ( if at all) next season at the least. The fact that it happened now. Just wow. I personally think burke and carloly must say salvage the season or leads fans would call for both their heads. I personally think burke is thinking scrap the season and start over with a new coach and system.



I have to agree with this entire post, with the exception of all but the final sentence (still trying to decipher the rest, and who carloly is). Wilson is Burke's scapegoat. The season is lost.



rofl sorry about the code oil my phone is not the easiest to type stuff on.
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
333 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  05:59:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Beans..Glen Healy would be a big upgrade from Ron ( moron ) Wilson
Its only been 1 game but when is the last time TO gave up 1 goal ??


as much as i want to say carlyle was responible for the 1 gaa that game i must say that i read a something on nhl.com that said that prior to being fired dirty ron ran the team through a rough practise that focused on defence.......... at the time carlyle (not carloly) didnt even have practise yet. i want to say carlyle was the reason but i dont think it was. i dont think he has had enough time to even show them his sytem that he likes to run. and the last time the leafs had only one goal against?
technically the last time was against the wild in a 4-1 win on Jan 19. but then there were the two shut outs by reimer in feb. to try to sya the carlyle is doing great by watching 1 game. is not possible.
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Lee Marshall
Rookie



Canada
102 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  06:18:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will say Mandree...that we saw Randy [not yet Dirty Randy] doing more behind the bench in Montreal than we witnessed Dirty Ron perform in almost 4 years of aggravated inactivity.

Randy is involved and recognizes [and therefore manually charts] the reasons for why something negative has occured. He then points it out to whomever should be made aware...visually. Dirty Ron just stood there like a deer caught in FOG LAMPS. [or yelled some insulting barrage of nonsense at the 'culprit[s]'...thus deriving little benefit from his 'method' of 'coaching'.]

I can't imagine what life would have been like having to put up with that constant derisive and divisive 'repartee' which exuded from Dirty Ron's lips on an ongoing basis.

The word dibilitative pops to mind.

[you'll notice that I have now officially registered instead of just running with a series of ever-changing numbers which never seem to add up]

Who the cap fits...Let them wear it.

Edited by - Lee Marshall on 03/05/2012 06:24:27
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
333 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  06:30:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
that i will agree with he seemed to comunicate with the players better
than wilson
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Shepsky
Rookie



Canada
211 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  06:50:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
one thing that Carlyle did do, is shuffle the lines a bit, and change the TOI for some players, namely Matt Frattin (who scored the first goal for Toronto, which was a huge momentum shift in the game) Wilson kept this kid on the marlies for the most part, where Carlyle put him on the second line, with Grabovski and MacArthur, if anyone didn't see the game, this was the line with all the offense for Toronto. Also, the defense still looked pretty lost most of the game, especially at the beginning, it was definitely offense and fore checking that won that game. But the main thing is they won, now just keep it going against Boston tomorrow.
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Guest7752
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Posted - 03/05/2012 :  08:19:59  Reply with Quote
As much as I hate to say it - I have to say that ANY coach that is now behind the bench will make a diffreence and will probably help push the team into the playoffs.
As bad as everyone thinks the leafs are (including me), all they need is the monster or Reimer to get rolling again, and they will have a chance. Add this to the fact that a new coach is what probably some of the players need to get rolling.
The math calcs and remaining games the Beans listed fail to show everything. Even though the 90 or 93 points will be difficult to reach mathematically, there are indeed 5 games with teams ahead of them today, and these 5 games are each 4 point games... 3 wins in these 5 games could be all that it takes to make it.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  08:37:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The list I provided did not fail to include the 5 games they have against teams in their group. You must have missed this statement:

However, the one beacon of hope is that 5 of their games are against the 3 teams currently right ahead of them. One against Wash, 2 against,TB, and 2 against Buff. They alos have a game against FLA in there and that division bounces around like a ball of flubber.


To the game in Montreal, I watched the game start to finish and I have to say I was not nearly as impressed with the Leafs defensive game as others appear to be. Holding Montreal to 1 goal is not all that impressive. Although Montreal did not outshoot TO, they did hold the play in the offensive end more than TO did.

Looking at the schedule, the next 5 games will tell the tale. I believe the Leafs need at least 7 pts in the next 5 games.

@ Montreal - Win - 67 pts, in 11th place-3 pts back of 8th
Boston
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
@Washington
@Florida
@ Tampa Bay
@ Ottawa
@Boston
New York Islanders
@ New Jersey
New York
Carolina
Philadelphia
Buffalo
@Buffalo
Tampa Bay
@ Montreal


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Lee Marshall
Rookie



Canada
102 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  08:48:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
7752. Nothing is impossible. Well...doing it with Dirty Ron was impossible. [There has to be an exception for it to be a rule.] 3 points out...1 game in hand on Wpg. But 3 other teams a tad closer.

They have a better chance now but 11 wins out of 17 games would be the bare minimum for success...I'm guessin'. Can they get there with 89 points? Hmmm. Better toss in an OT/SO loss or 2, rather than 6 out and out losses, just to be safe

"Holding Montreal to 1 goal is not all that impressive" True enough Beans. I thought that all night Saturday. They're ONLY playing the smurfs.

Who the cap fits...Let them wear it.

Edited by - Lee Marshall on 03/05/2012 08:50:34
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Guest7752
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Posted - 03/05/2012 :  10:42:47  Reply with Quote
Beans - I didn't get my message accross correctly.
I meant you did indeed mention the 5 games with the teams currently ahead of them, but we have to understand that these 5 games are for 4 points each game.
And you are correct, Montreal was more threatening that Leafs were. BUT - Monster made the save when it was required.
I think he was a major contributor to the win.
So - Leafs need "any" goalie to get hot (chances are it WILL happen), then add to that 3 wins of the 5 mentioned above - they do have a shot at playoffs... regardless of the math to get to 90 - 93 points.
AND - regardless of how much I would hate to actually have that happen!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  11:03:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I disagree with the notion that any success/failure we have is dependant on the whims of how good the goalie plays. Sure, a goalie is very important - but a defence can make a goalie look much, much better than he is if they play it right.

Coaching does matter - and a big part of the influence on how a goalie plays, is how the defence plays in front of him. And the system and confidence the players can have in a system, and its effectivenss, is squarely on the coach's shoulders.

It was good to see such a proactive approach by Carlyle in practice. And of course, we all get that the first practice will be a tough one, but . . . more heartening was to hear him talk about the strengths of the team, and how he plans to use them. In my opinion, our defence is underperforming by a large margin, and whatever it was under Wilson - bad system, tuning out the arsehole coach, feeling nervous/unconfident, not enough tutelage, or a combination of those and other factors - it needs to change, and certainly CAN get better.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  11:47:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's a great point about the goaltending Slozo and I can't agree more. A great defense (a la Detroit) can make an average goalie look better than what he is. It is easy to give the goalie a pass if he is facing 30 shots a game and likely 10 legit scoring chances. That is what I have been able to do for the Monster and Reimer. However, if the TO team defense does pick it up, giving up less than 25 shots and around 5 legit scoring chances, losing would fall completely on the goaltending.

It is going to be an interesting month of hockey.
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Guest7752
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Posted - 03/05/2012 :  11:49:33  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

I disagree with the notion that any success/failure we have is dependant on the whims of how good the goalie plays. Sure, a goalie is very important - but a defence can make a goalie look much, much better than he is if they play it right.



Agreed - but your point is valid for an entire season.
We are only talking about a hot streak for the remaining games, especially 3 of the 5 that Leafs have against teams currently ahead of them...
We're talking about a push to make the playoffs this season. A hot period by either goalie may do the trick for the leafs... for this season's playoff push.... that's it!
It won't win you president's trophy, cups, etc...
I did not mention ANY success or failure is based on goalie whims.... C'mon man...
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