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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
266 Posts |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
 Posted - 04/15/2012 : 22:18:35
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I'm just waiting to see how many Canuck fans complain about the hit being late.
Dustin Brown is the Conn Smythe through 3 games.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 22:30:57
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Not here Beans, but it was blindside  Well, as far as Gary Valk of Sportsnet says anyway. 
I didn't think it was late at all. It's one of those "finish your check" hits that you, FER, and others have said are useless, not hockey plays, shouldn't be in the game, etc, etc. I've never had a problem with it, maybe because it's become a part of the game for quite some time now! Was it blindside? I suppose, but if it's clean, who cares? Was it clean? Sure looked like it to me, though his shoulder does contact Henrik's chin which was obviously sore afterwards as everytime they panned to him on the bench, he was moving his jaw around in some disocomfort.
Once again, it really didn't affect the outcome of the game, but J. Quick sure as hell did!  |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 08:43:31
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Alex, I'd like to address your comments about Me, FER, and others who discuss the 'finish the check' menatility. I have never had a problem with a player who has 'finished' a legal hit. My problems have been, and always will be, with the players who hit a defenseless player and then use the 'I had to finish my check' attitude to try to justify it.
Just to make sure we are clear.
To this hit, I would agree it was blindside. Sedin has no clue it was coming and had his back turned to Brown for almost the entire play. He turned up ice as he was passing the puck behind his back. If he doesn't turn around, Brown hits him square in the numbers. Although, considering Brown leads the league in hitting most seasons and (as far as I know) has never been suspended, I believe if Sedin doensn't turn around that Brown gives him a bit of a brush and skates past him between Sedin and the boards. That being said, it was a blindside hit that did not target the head. If there was a fine to Brown I would likely agree. But not more than a fine.
My point behind the late hit comments was how rediculous Craig Simpson was going off on the CBC telecast last night. At one time I really liked Craig Simpson as a colour guy but he has become incredibly biased in the past few years. I get that Vancouver is the team that many Canadians are cheering for. However, I respect inpartial journalism far more than the one sides propaganda crap that CBC spews. Keep that junk for local radio where it belongs.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:10:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Alex, I'd like to address your comments about Me, FER, and others who discuss the 'finish the check' menatility. I have never had a problem with a player who has 'finished' a legal hit. My problems have been, and always will be, with the players who hit a defenseless player and then use the 'I had to finish my check' attitude to try to justify it.
Just to make sure we are clear.
Beans, please refer to the following link in response to the above. FTR, it was Willus and not FER, though FER may have been on board as well? I just looked up the link but didn't reread the entire thing as i don't have time right now. If the link takes you to page 1, skip it as most of the pertanent stuff is near the end of page 2.
ETA - OOPS, forgot the link. 
Here it is.... http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17188&whichpage=2&SearchTerms=horton,hears,a,boom |
Edited by - Alex116 on 04/16/2012 10:21:50 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:12:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Alex, I'd like to address your comments about Me, FER, and others who discuss the 'finish the check' menatility. I have never had a problem with a player who has 'finished' a legal hit. My problems have been, and always will be, with the players who hit a defenseless player and then use the 'I had to finish my check' attitude to try to justify it.
Just to make sure we are clear.
Beans, please refer to the following link in response to the above. FTR, it was Willus and not FER, though FER may have been on board as well? I just looked up the link but didn't reread the entire thing as i don't have time right now. If the link takes you to page 1, skip it as most of the pertanent stuff is near the end of page 2.
What link??
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
Edited by - Beans15 on 04/16/2012 10:22:42 |
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Guest4600
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Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:14:52
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That was a AWESOME hit Boob good on Brown for Spanking the Sedins Sister....
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Guest4600
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Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:16:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4600
That was a AWESOME hit good on Brown for Spanking the Sedins Sister....
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:22:12
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| Beans, editted my post above to add the link. |
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Guest2988
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Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:33:15
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| Shoulder to chin but not deliberate |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 14:28:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2988
Shoulder to chin but not deliberate
Deliberate or not, if it was a headshot, it's illegal, suspendable, etc. At least, that's the way the NHL has made things. I don't agree with it, cuz momentum often results in a head being contacted at some point of a clean hit even when not the principal point of contact!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 15:05:58
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Ok Alex. I read the entire post. I don't see anywhere in that line of posts where I said I wanted to take out the 'finishing a check" from the game. My point in that thread was that if the puck is gone, the hittee has to let up. That's it. I had (and still have) a beef with players who finish their check when the puck is gone. I think this comment sums it up the best, which I made in the thread you highlighted:
All I want is for the body check to be used for what it is supposed to be used for. That is, to separate a player from the puck. If the puck is gone than the hit is useless and should be heavily penalized. Regardless of it being less than a second or 3 seconds later. No puck, no body check.
If that is what Willus is saying, than I agree.
To this specific hit. I don't think the head was contacted, but I could be wrong. I don't think the hit was late as (in real world speed) the puck was barely gone when Brown lays the hit. At least it is close enough to say it would have been impossible for Brown to avoid the hit. Thirdly, I do think this hit was on the edge and likely over the edge of a dangerous hit. If Brown was to get fined for this hit, I would not argue. A 1 game suspension would likely be a little heavy but still justified. Anything more than that I think would be too much.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 16:15:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Ok Alex. I read the entire post. I don't see anywhere in that line of posts where I said I wanted to take out the 'finishing a check" from the game. My point in that thread was that if the puck is gone, the hittee has to let up. That's it. I had (and still have) a beef with players who finish their check when the puck is gone. I think this comment sums it up the best, which I made in the thread you highlighted:
All I want is for the body check to be used for what it is supposed to be used for. That is, to separate a player from the puck. If the puck is gone than the hit is useless and should be heavily penalized. Regardless of it being less than a second or 3 seconds later. No puck, no body check.
If that is what Willus is saying, than I agree.
To this specific hit. I don't think the head was contacted, but I could be wrong. I don't think the hit was late as (in real world speed) the puck was barely gone when Brown lays the hit. At least it is close enough to say it would have been impossible for Brown to avoid the hit. Thirdly, I do think this hit was on the edge and likely over the edge of a dangerous hit. If Brown was to get fined for this hit, I would not argue. A 1 game suspension would likely be a little heavy but still justified. Anything more than that I think would be too much.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
Beans....i don't wanna start a big argument about this, especially considering i'm not really all that upset at the hit by Brown, but you're TOTALLY contradicting yourself! You said "If the puck is gone than the hit is useless and should be heavily penalized. Regardless of it being less than a second or 3 seconds later." Well, it's pretty clear to me that the puck was gone. Sedin DID NOT have it in his possession. Sure, i'll agree, it wasn't gone for long (and that's why i don't consider this hit late), but you did say, even if it's less than a second!!!! The only argument you could possibly have in defence of this, would be that it was so quick (the time between the puck leaving Sedin's stick and the hit itself) that he simply couldn't have avoided the hit. Firstly, i don't agree with that as i do think it was avoidable, but more importantly, you seemed to agree earlier when you stated "I believe if Sedin doensn't turn around that Brown gives him a bit of a brush and skates past him between Sedin and the boards." Surely if Brown could have "brushed by him" to avoid a hit from behind, he could have avoided this hit too, no???
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 18:55:46
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Great ponts Alex, and I don't disagree with anything. Perhaps my wording would have been better if I had said the hit was not that late.  It was not as late as Simpson was eluding to during the game, but it is hard to say Brown could avoided the hit but also say it wasn't late.
That is also why is said I would not have argued against a minor disciplinary action.
No argument here.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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@valanche
Rookie
Canada
240 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 19:01:01
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Why would he avoid the hit? It was clean and a part of his game.
66 is > than 99 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 19:38:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Great ponts Alex, and I don't disagree with anything. Perhaps my wording would have been better if I had said the hit was not that late. It was not as late as Simpson was eluding to during the game, but it is hard to say Brown could avoided the hit but also say it wasn't late.
That is also why is said I would not have argued against a minor disciplinary action.
No argument here.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
Yeah, since when is Simpson a Canucks fan? Gary Valk said similar stuff on Sportsnet Pacific. The wording behind all these rules regarding headshots, late hits, finishing checks, charging, etc are so confusing that no one really knows what's legal anymore, what suspendable, etc! Sad really.....
Heard some Canuck fans argue that it was a charge and actually the way the rule for charging is written, there is an argument there. But, the way ref's call charging, it wasn't what i would call a charge. Yeah he was cruising in pretty quick from a distance, but it's not like he took any strides towards him!
At the end of the day, it was borderline (debatable) at best. The pp that resulted for the Kings from the Canucks retaliation did nothing as far as the game outcome. The Kings claim it gave them a lift, and if so, i missed it cuz they didn't appear any better or more energized really after that? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 21:55:23
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Alex, all fair points made against Beans. And FER was in the same group, he went on at length in a different thread on it. Myself, at the time, I was . . . mostly in agreement with them, I believe.
It's tough to call - we come into opinion here, pure and simple. And when one of those mentionede brings up if this is a hockey play to actually separate man from puck, or to steal the puck . . . I'll have to agree with them, no - not a hockey play.
It's a play to hurt.
To intimidate.
So in the end, despite Beans waffling purely on the fact that it's not only a Vancouver player, but a Sedin . . . I have to say this:
1) clean play under today's rules (did not target the head, just marginally 'clean' in not targetting a vulnerable player - in that, he could have made it worse)
2) It's a non-hockey play I'd rather not see
And to those quick, mindless fools who will be superfast to type out their vehement response to me, saying I am a pansy figure skater lover . . . I present to you REAL HOCKEY PLAYS by my most beloved defenceman of all time . . . the great Scott Stevens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7jUbKQYdw
Watch where the puck is. From memory, about 7 or 8 are a check on the actual guy carrying the puck into the offensive zone; the rest are on a guy entering the offensive zone, having just given up the puck, that are part of the play.
THOSE are hockey plays, and those are just awesome hits.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Cyclonis
Top Prospect
Canada
56 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 13:36:30
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It didn't look like his head got hit to me. Shoulder to chest and his head hit the ice after he went down.
I thought it looked clean and i didn't see it as late either. Not Torres late anyway...
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Dustin Brown Destroys Henrik Sedin 
