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theraj662
Top Prospect



45 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2012 :  20:39:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm talking about Team Canada in the 1987 Canada Cup tournament. Reciting the roster of that team is like reading the roll call for the HHOF. To refresh everyone's memory, just take a look at the names on that team!

Glenn Anderson
Ray Bourque
Paul Coffey
Doug Crossman
Kevin Dineen
Grant Fuhr
Mike Gartner
Doug Gilmour
Michel Goulet
Wayne Gretzky
Craig Hartsburg
Dale Hawerchuk
Ron Hextall
Kelly Hrudey
Claude Lemieux
Mario Lemieux
Mark Messier
Larry Murphy
James Patrick
Brian Propp
Normand Rochefort
Brent Sutter
Rick Tocchet

Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Coffee...the list goes on and on.
The championship of the tournament was a best of 3 between Canada and the Soviet Union. (This was back in the days of the cold war when Russia was the U.S.S.R) The Soviets took game 1 by a score of 6-5. The 2nd game went to Canada, also 6-5, forcing a 3rd game to determine the champion. The Soviets jumped out to a 3-0 lead in game 3, but Canada came back and late in the 3rd the score was tied, 5-5. Then it happened. Team Canada coach, Mike Keenan sent Gretzky and Lemieux over the boards on the same line! With 1:26 remaining in the game, Gretzky passed to Lemieux who then scored and pandemonium erupted! Canada took the deciding game 6-5 to win the championship.

In my opinion, I would say this group of players was the greatest hockey team assembled. Ever. Better than the '72 Summit Series team, better than the 2002 and 2010 Olympic Gold Medal teams. The best all time, PERIOD. And Gretzky and Lemieux on the same line? Can you even begin to imagine what havoc they would have created had they been on the same team in the NHL?

Greatest line put together. EVER. Who cares who the 3rd guy was? Actually it was Hawerchuk, not too shabby either.

So there you have it, my opinion on the greatest team and greatest line ever. Agree or disagree?

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2012 :  21:49:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So hard to compare teams from different era's but i'm certainly not about to disagree as if it's not the best ever, it's gotta be right up there. However, where would the Soviet team they beat rank all time? Let's face it, it took 3 games (best of 3), all won by the same 6-5 score! That game 3 could have gone either way, so is it not fair to say that the Soviet's were pretty much as good???
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Guest6412
( )

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  07:01:36  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

So hard to compare teams from different era's but i'm certainly not about to disagree as if it's not the best ever, it's gotta be right up there. However, where would the Soviet team they beat rank all time? Let's face it, it took 3 games (best of 3), all won by the same 6-5 score! That game 3 could have gone either way, so is it not fair to say that the Soviet's were pretty much as good???



Yes, the Soviets were pretty damn good for sure! This was back before the Russians were allowed to play in the NHL. Had they been allowed in the NHL at that time, I'm sure we'd be familiar with most of those names and it would be a HHOF laden roster as well.

It could be argued that both teams were equally good, but in the end it comes down to the final score after head to head competition. The Soviet Red Army crushed the competition for decades in International hockey, it was only when they played Canada's best they would lose. Canada beat them 2 of 3 so that makes the Canadian team just a little better.

Also the Soviets, as good as they were, had NOTHING to compare to Gretzky and Lemieux on the same line.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  08:05:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6412

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

So hard to compare teams from different era's but i'm certainly not about to disagree as if it's not the best ever, it's gotta be right up there. However, where would the Soviet team they beat rank all time? Let's face it, it took 3 games (best of 3), all won by the same 6-5 score! That game 3 could have gone either way, so is it not fair to say that the Soviet's were pretty much as good???



Yes, the Soviets were pretty damn good for sure! This was back before the Russians were allowed to play in the NHL. Had they been allowed in the NHL at that time, I'm sure we'd be familiar with most of those names and it would be a HHOF laden roster as well.

It could be argued that both teams were equally good, but in the end it comes down to the final score after head to head competition. The Soviet Red Army crushed the competition for decades in International hockey, it was only when they played Canada's best they would lose. Canada beat them 2 of 3 so that makes the Canadian team just a little better.

Also the Soviets, as good as they were, had NOTHING to compare to Gretzky and Lemieux on the same line.



Fair enough, and I'm not saying the Soviets were the better team, but in a 3game series, the better team doesn't always win. Heck, not even in 7 gamers! Just think about how good Gretzky and Lemieux were, then think, we only just got by those guys!
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  08:51:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Consideration should be given to the 76 Canada Cup Canadian team as well.
Forwards and Defense: Bill Barber, Bobby Clarke, Marcel Dionne, Phil Esposito, Bob Gainey, Danny Gare, Bobby Hull, Guy Lafleur, Guy Lapointe, Reggie Leach, Richard Martin, Peter Mahovlich, Lanny McDonald, Bobby Orr, Gilbert Perreault, Denis Potvin, Larry Robinson, Serge Savard, Steve Shutt, Darryl Sittler, Carol Vadnais, Jimmy Watson; Training camp only -- Dave Burrows, Dan Maloney, Jean Pronovost, Rene Robert and Paul Shmyr
Goaltenders: Gerry Cheevers, Glenn Resch, Rogatien Vachon; Dan Bouchard (training camp only)
Coaches: Scotty Bowman, Don Cherry, Bobby Kromm, Al MacNeil
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  10:16:13  Reply with Quote
1988 Edmonton Oilers
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Guest6412
( )

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  16:35:26  Reply with Quote
What you have said about the best team not always winning in a best of 3 or seven does hold merit, however I think over the long run, that Team Canada would have beaten the Soviets more than they would have lost.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  22:00:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6412

What you have said about the best team not always winning in a best of 3 or seven does hold merit, however I think over the long run, that Team Canada would have beaten the Soviets more than they would have lost.




I agree, in fact i think maybe the Soviets were a little fortunate to be that close in the series and on the scoreboard. I don't recall the series in detail, though i did watch the entire thing as a teen, but it's safe to say that the Soviets may have played their best 3 games (to their absolute peak) and the Canadians may not have? Canada prob would have won 7 or 8 outta 10 even? I was just making a point that the scores were so close that you have to give the Russians some credit too!
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theraj662
Top Prospect



45 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  03:16:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Guest6412

What you have said about the best team not always winning in a best of 3 or seven does hold merit, however I think over the long run, that Team Canada would have beaten the Soviets more than they would have lost.




I agree, in fact i think maybe the Soviets were a little fortunate to be that close in the series and on the scoreboard. I don't recall the series in detail, though i did watch the entire thing as a teen, but it's safe to say that the Soviets may have played their best 3 games (to their absolute peak) and the Canadians may not have? Canada prob would have won 7 or 8 outta 10 even? I was just making a point that the scores were so close that you have to give the Russians some credit too!



Yes, the Soviets certainly deserve credit for sure, they were a great team, just Canada was a little better, and Canada was probably the only team that could compete with the Red Army.

Credit to the Soviets where credit is due!
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
807 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  10:51:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It has got to be mentioned that the Soviet teams at that time played as a team year-round. The "NHL all-star" teams did not. Much like any Olympic, Canada Cup, or World Championship game in the 70's and 80's, our boys were playing at a disadvantage. Not to take anything away from the Soviets, but if a Russian all-star team were assembled today, there is a good chance the Columbus Blue Jackets would beat them in a 7-game series simply based on the fact that they have been playing together as a team for a period of time.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.
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simleung
Top Prospect

Canada
26 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  12:55:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Respectfully disagree :-)

An awesome team to be sure, but I think the defencemen (other then the top 2) and the goalies are a little weak. I like willus' 76 team a lot better on D, but again I don't like the goalies a whole lot.

Roster-wise, I like the 1998 Canadian Olympic team, although it was without Mario and Messier. But I like the D and the Goalies. Unfortunately they didn't even medal.

Forwards
Rod Brind'Amour Philadelphia
Shayne Corson Montreal
Theo Fleury Calgary
Wayne Gretzky NY Rangers
Paul Kariya Anaheim
Trevor Linden NY Islanders
Eric Lindros Philadelphia
Joe Nieuwendyk Dallas
Keith Primeau Carolina
Joe Sakic Colorado
Brendan Shanahan Detroit
Steve Yzerman Detroit
Rob Zamuner Tampa Bay
Defensemen
Name Team
Rob Blake Los Angeles
Ray Bourque Boston
Eric Desjardins Philadelphia
Adam Foote Colorado
Al MacInnis St. Louis
Chris Pronger St. Louis
Scott Stevens New Jersey
Goalies
Name Team
Martin Brodeur New Jersey
Curtis Joseph Edmonton
Patrick Roy Colorado


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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  13:11:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Im gonna go off the grid and pick the 1996-1997-1998 Detroit Red Wings team. With Scotty Bowman at the Helm and Captain Yserman they had 2 cups, contended for the cup and president Trophey for a decade plus they hold the modern record for wins in a season. They may have swapped out parts during the 3 seasons, but they continued to be the best team in the best Hockey League during the season. And thats saying something because the Colorado team of that era would be another of my favorites. I'd take that Detroit team against most of the international teams assembled and suggested in this post. I am figuring the Oilers and Islanders of the 80's might have even had a tough time with a team who can score, hit and play defense. Hell they did that with Vernon (5hole) and Osgood before he became good enough to win on his own.
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theraj662
Top Prospect



45 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  22:01:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have to disagree with the 1998 Canadian Olympic team being better than the 87 Canada Cup team. Sure, on paper the goaltending looked awesome, but that team failed to Medal. An impressive assemblyment of talent for sure, but what looks great on paper doesn't always equate to being a good TEAM.

In order to enter ANY team into this discussion, that team had to have won whatever tournament they were in or a Cup. If they could not have even won the tournament they were in, that means they were not even the best team of their tournament, therefore disqualifying them form any discussion of best of all time.
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  23:10:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO

It has got to be mentioned that the Soviet teams at that time played as a team year-round. The "NHL all-star" teams did not. Much like any Olympic, Canada Cup, or World Championship game in the 70's and 80's, our boys were playing at a disadvantage. Not to take anything away from the Soviets, but if a Russian all-star team were assembled today, there is a good chance the Columbus Blue Jackets would beat them in a 7-game series simply based on the fact that they have been playing together as a team for a period of time.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2013.



A Russian All-Star team would absolutely destroy the Blue Jackets. Unless your omitting current NHLers.

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Guest0032
( )

Posted - 02/13/2014 :  12:29:04  Reply with Quote
The Sovjet players did not play together year around. They played for teams in Sovjet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_national_ice_hockey_team

Canada Cup was always played in north America on home turf. All of that goes into consideration.

Comparable if not better than Team Canada.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
807 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2014 :  15:21:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great link. Don't see anywhere it says the Soviet (not Sovjet) team didn't play together year-round.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4508 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2014 :  09:23:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some might call me crazy, but . . .

. . . I think this year's Canadian team might later be considered to be the #1 greatest team ever assembled.

This defence is the best defence I have ever seen for any team ever, bar none. Canada has had some good ones in the past, when Niedermeyer and Stevens were around . . . but their #4, 5 and 6 were not of the same calibre as this year's team.

The offence is #1 as well.

Only area where we might fall short is perceivably in goal . . . where we only have 2 of the top 5 goalies in the league currently, but neither is that Brodeur or Roy. Still, each has HOF potential . . .

But yes - I'd put this year's team right up there with the best.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2014 :  15:53:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Some might call me crazy, but . . .




YOU'RE CRAZY! Lol.

I get it, and i do agree with it to some extent. This team, IF IT PLAYS UP TO IT'S POTENTIAL, would be right up there! So far, it's not done that, aside from perhaps the D.
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
901 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2014 :  18:32:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Some might call me crazy, but . . .

. . . I think this year's Canadian team might later be considered to be the #1 greatest team ever assembled.

This defence is the best defence I have ever seen for any team ever, bar none. Canada has had some good ones in the past, when Niedermeyer and Stevens were around . . . but their #4, 5 and 6 were not of the same calibre as this year's team.

The offence is #1 as well.

Only area where we might fall short is perceivably in goal . . . where we only have 2 of the top 5 goalies in the league currently, but neither is that Brodeur or Roy. Still, each has HOF potential . . .

But yes - I'd put this year's team right up there with the best.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



For me, as good as this years defensemen are, I'd still go with the group from Nagano. Ray Bourque, Chris Pronger, Al MacInnis, Rob Blake, Scott Stevens, Eric Desjardins, Adam Foote. I'd like it even more had Scott Niedermayer made the team. He was on the World Cup roster 2 years earlier and had a strong 97-98 season, so I'm surprised he wasn't. The Nagano goaltending was very deep too with 2 of the best of all-time in Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur, as well as Curtis Joseph. There were a couple of questionable picks up front, but tht team should of faired better then it did.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4508 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2014 :  09:51:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ryan93

quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Some might call me crazy, but . . .

. . . I think this year's Canadian team might later be considered to be the #1 greatest team ever assembled.

This defence is the best defence I have ever seen for any team ever, bar none. Canada has had some good ones in the past, when Niedermeyer and Stevens were around . . . but their #4, 5 and 6 were not of the same calibre as this year's team.

The offence is #1 as well.

Only area where we might fall short is perceivably in goal . . . where we only have 2 of the top 5 goalies in the league currently, but neither is that Brodeur or Roy. Still, each has HOF potential . . .

But yes - I'd put this year's team right up there with the best.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



For me, as good as this years defensemen are, I'd still go with the group from Nagano. Ray Bourque, Chris Pronger, Al MacInnis, Rob Blake, Scott Stevens, Eric Desjardins, Adam Foote. I'd like it even more had Scott Niedermayer made the team. He was on the World Cup roster 2 years earlier and had a strong 97-98 season, so I'm surprised he wasn't. The Nagano goaltending was very deep too with 2 of the best of all-time in Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur, as well as Curtis Joseph. There were a couple of questionable picks up front, but tht team should of faired better then it did.



Point taken - that defence is just as good as this year's defence on paper. Fair enough.

And the goaltending probably is a notch above this year's team - fair enough. Can't get any better than Brodeur or Roy, nosiree.

But this year's forwards are two notches above that other team, IMHO . . . having Rob Zamuner, Shayne Corson, Keith Primeau, Joe Nieuwendyk, Trevor Linden on that team . . . I don't know. Solid leaders and team guys, but no scoring punch at all.

And in the end . . . that's why they failed. The stellar goaltending wasn't good enough to get past an unbelievable Hasek in his prime, and they were done.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest4822
( )

Posted - 02/24/2014 :  20:45:34  Reply with Quote
The 1991 Team Canada team in the Canada Cup. As far as I know, it was the only Canadian team in Canada Cup history that went undefeated. Steve Larmer scored the winner against the USA in the final game on a breakaway. This team, coached by Mike Keenan, never seems to get the credit it deserves.
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