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umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
423 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2012 :  04:48:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A half expected Jordan Stall trade is a done deal. it was Staal's own request to join his brother in Carolina and he rejected a 10 year extension in favor of a trade. The Penguins got a #1 draft pick which they used to select defenseman Derrick Pouliot. The Penguins also got forward Brandon Sutter in the deal. I just hope I end up liking Brandon more than I like his father.

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"

Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2257 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2012 :  05:40:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
HUGE win for the Pens in this deal I think, don't get me wrong the best player went to the Canes and this shoudl be a trade that works out for both clubs but Derrick Pouliot is a terrific defensive prospect , Sutter is a perfect third line center and will fill Staal's pk role very nicely and Brian Doumoulin the other prospect going to the pens is a former second round pick with lots of upside.... wow, i really wanted the habs to make a move for Staal, but if this was he market for him i'm glad they didn't


Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat.
Bob Uecker

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2012 :  08:10:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pasty, couldn't agree more. It's a good deal for both sides but i give Shero and the Pens a big applause for getting this much for him. Not to say he's not worth it, but let's face it, Carolina coulda waited another year and got him for nothing if he wanted to go there bad enough. Also, if they did in fact have other offers, i'm betting they weren't nearly enough as other teams were likely concerned with whether or not Staal would re-sign with them after next season! Carolina prob didn't have to worry about this as much. This is where i wonder just how much "tampering" goes on? Teams aren't allowed to contact Staal re whether or not he'd re-sign, but i'm assuming Eric can call him and get a verbal guarantee on behalf of Carolina?
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2012 :  09:26:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have to agree, that I am surprised they could get so much value, for a deal where he was essentially going to one team. Almost a "thank-you" and respect thing from Carolina to the Pens, to get what they wanted as well.

Now we see how good Jordan Staal really is, eh? He'll have much better linemates, more ice time, and he gets to play with his brother (how much, remains to be seen - they could play different lines).

Frankly, on a team with not nearly as much offence, it's hard to predict where Jordan's stats go.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2012 :  10:50:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Frankly, on a team with not nearly as much offence, it's hard to predict where Jordan's stats go.




True, but with the ice time increase, pp time increase, etc, i can't imagine his numbers not going up somewhat! It wouldn't be a stretch to see him hit 30G and 45A. Poolies will be torn as to how high to take him this year!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2012 :  11:01:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think Staal will probably produce roughly where he has in the past - 60 pts should not be an unreasonable expectation. He'll get an upgrade in positioning and will almost certainly be their second-line centre - if not for brother Eric he'd get a shot at the top line. He will probably get time on the top PP unit as well with his brother, which will help both CAR and his personal stats.

CAR will need more scoring support though, Staal is but one piece of the puzzle. They have a decent offensive core of Staal/Staal/Skinner/Jokinen, but probably need a couple of other scoring wingers to help out, and some scoring defense. That group cannot be confused with Crosby/Malkin/Neal/Kunitz/Letang...

If they look like they're going to be a contender, they should have no trouble attracting free agents. I recall reading somewhere that CAR (along with STL) is apparently one of the best clubs to play for from the POV of the players - they take care of their guys and people seem to feel at home there.

Overall, good move for both clubs - if Staal wasn't going to stay in PIT then they got pretty good return - including an actual 3rd line centre to play on their 3rd line in Sutter.

Edited by - nuxfan on 06/23/2012 11:02:58
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2012 :  13:12:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nuxfan,
I already heard that they are set on first trying out Jordan at top line centre, and Eric playing wing (which he has in the past). That would put Skinner at the other wing . . . a potentially very good top line. Jordan would be the plugger/corners guy to continue cycles, and he has enough skil to potentially make it explosive.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2012 :  14:16:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was reading a story on this situation in the Sporting News and there is some scary thoughts regarding Pitt. Consider this, Staal is out, Michalek is out, and they are looking to move Martin out. They are stock piling young defensemen and not taking back salaries with these moves. This frees up a pile of cape space.

What do you think about Sutter and Parise in Penguin uniforms? Add those guys to a core of Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Orpik, Letang, and Fleury?

Wow.

Pitts going offensive, Washington's added Riberio and Forberg, Edmonton has a
A pile of young offensive players.

Could we be heading back to an era of fire wagon hockey?

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2012 :  14:30:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
What do you think about Sutter and Parise in Penguin uniforms? Add those guys to a core of Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Orpik, Letang, and Fleury?



Great core - the problem is, how do you afford to build a team around it?

Crosby - 9M
Malkin - 9M
Neal - 5M
Fleury - 5M

28M on your first 4 guys. Throw Parise in there at 7M (which is probably not the best offer he's going to get next week), and you're up to 35M on 5 guys.

Letang, Orpik, and Sutter are all free agents in 2 years time, and they're all probably going to get raises - esp Letang. I see those 3 combined making 14M more with roughly half to Letang.

So in 2 years time you're paying 49M for 8 players. Assuming a 70M cap, that leaves 21M for your remaining 15 players - and that assumes that PIT will spend to the cap, which has not been the case in past years. Its technically feasible, but unless you have a lot of good players willing to take significant discounts on long term deals to play there, it does not allow you to build a well balanced team.

Edited by - nuxfan on 06/23/2012 14:48:00
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umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
423 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2012 :  05:16:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I was reading a story on this situation in the Sporting News and there is some scary thoughts regarding Pitt. Consider this, Staal is out, Michalek is out, and they are looking to move Martin out. They are stock piling young defensemen and not taking back salaries with these moves. This frees up a pile of cape space.

What do you think about Sutter and Parise in Penguin uniforms? Add those guys to a core of Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Orpik, Letang, and Fleury?

Wow.

Pitts going offensive, Washington's added Riberio and Forberg, Edmonton has a
A pile of young offensive players.

Could we be heading back to an era of fire wagon hockey?

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!




that would be fine with me - loved the '80's!

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2012 :  08:31:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
What do you think about Sutter and Parise in Penguin uniforms? Add those guys to a core of Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Orpik, Letang, and Fleury?



Great core - the problem is, how do you afford to build a team around it?

Crosby - 9M
Malkin - 9M
Neal - 5M
Fleury - 5M

28M on your first 4 guys. Throw Parise in there at 7M (which is probably not the best offer he's going to get next week), and you're up to 35M on 5 guys.

Letang, Orpik, and Sutter are all free agents in 2 years time, and they're all probably going to get raises - esp Letang. I see those 3 combined making 14M more with roughly half to Letang.

So in 2 years time you're paying 49M for 8 players. Assuming a 70M cap, that leaves 21M for your remaining 15 players - and that assumes that PIT will spend to the cap, which has not been the case in past years. Its technically feasible, but unless you have a lot of good players willing to take significant discounts on long term deals to play there, it does not allow you to build a well balanced team.





How many competitive teams in the NHL today do not have $30+ million tied up in their top 5-6 players? The Canucks have more than $30 mil tied up in the Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, and Luongo. Chicago has more than $30 million tied into Towes, Kane, Hossa, Keith, and Seabrook. I could go on but you should get the point. More than $30 million in 5 players is not uncommon. I don't disagree that this is a Pitt would be a little high but it's not absurd. Also, why do you think Parise will need $7 million? The player doesn't always go to the highest bidder. He may look at that situation and think it the most likely to produce Cups.
Crosby is also due for a contract and it might be a long term deal with a lower cap hit than he is getting today.



Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2012 :  22:00:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I see where nuxfan is going with those numbers, especially when you consider there's a chance they go after Parise AND Suter! If they sign them to 5-6 mil deals, which surely both will command, then that brings their top six into the high 30's (millions).

Man, if they grabbed those two, there would likely be a couple cups in Pitts before they had to worry about Letang and the other who need signing. I guess they could worry about those problems later?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2012 :  22:21:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
How many competitive teams in the NHL today do not have $30+ million tied up in their top 5-6 players? The Canucks have more than $30 mil tied up in the Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, and Luongo. Chicago has more than $30 million tied into Towes, Kane, Hossa, Keith, and Seabrook. I could go on but you should get the point. More than $30 million in 5 players is not uncommon. I don't disagree that this is a Pitt would be a little high but it's not absurd. Also, why do you think Parise will need $7 million? The player doesn't always go to the highest bidder. He may look at that situation and think it the most likely to produce Cups.
Crosby is also due for a contract and it might be a long term deal with a lower cap hit than he is getting today.



Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!



When I say "salary", I am referring to "cap hit". No one cares what actual dollar amount players get paid from year to year, the only thing that matters when building a team is cap space.

If Parise does get deal that carried a 7M cap hit, they would have a 35M of cap space committed to their top 5 players. None of the teams you mentioned have 30M of cap space tied up in their top 5 players. CHI is close at 29.5M, VAN comes in at 27M. The only team I could find was SJ, that has 31M committed to their top 5 paid players. If you want an even smaller list, look for teams that have 48M committed to their top 8 paid players, or are projected to have 48M tied up for 8 players in the next 2 years. Zero.

As for Parise going to the highest bidder - I don't think 7M will be the highest bid for his services. He's making 6M this year on an (arguably) sub-market deal, and just led his team to the cup final - what sort of offers do you think he's going to see on July 1? 7M might be his "taking less to be competative" number.

It will be interesting to see what Crosby and Malkin do with their upcoming deals, however I think that front-end deals will die with the next CBA, and that the league will clamp down on the Luongo/Hossa/Kovalchuk style deals. I would not be surprised to see a very long term deal for Crosby, but I'd be surprised if the cap hit were less than his current 9M. However, if they don't clamp down, then I agree that PIT would likely explore this option for Malkin/Crosby/Letang going forward, which would bring their cap hit down on their core group.

All in all, it will be difficult for PIT to build a competitive team with that much cap space tied up in so few players.

Edited by - nuxfan on 06/24/2012 22:46:47
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 06/26/2012 :  15:00:29  Reply with Quote
I thought the pens did a decent job of getting some good return for a guy who wanted out. Sutter should be a good fit in Pitts. Not as many points as Staal, but could be a very good third line player. Frankly the Pens have enough scoring, which was why Staal was perhaps under appreciated/utilized.

I like Jordan Staal but will be curious to see how he does in Carolina. I'd guess 50-60 points, and good two way play, but there will be more pressure on him to produce.

How the pens use the cap space wil also be curious, although in fairness, they still should have a good enough team to compete as is. Adding Parise would be a great move, even if it meant being light on less expensive 3-4 liners.

As far as the comment of firebrand hockey is concerned, i wish! But sadly based on this years playoffs, id say the opposite is likely. While there was great intensity, esp in the first round, there was far too much play along the boards and too may block shots were the order of the day.
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