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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
 Posted - 05/23/2007 : 11:55:44
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An interesting discussion. I'm curious what different peoples takes would be on this. I've heard it said that a great athlete would be great at any sport they practiced.Had a great athlete in a particular sport played another sport from youth up would they be great at it. Are the great athletes in sports capable of being great in other sports.
For instance, would Tiger Woods have been great at Basketball?
Some actual examples I thought of are:
Mike Weir wanted to play hockey when younger. He realized it wasn't going to happen and took up Golf and has won the Masters tournament.
Mario Lemieux and Grant Fuhr are both scratch or better golfers. Had they played it more than as a past time would they have been great golfers?
Michael Jordan tried his hand at baseball but was not very successful.
Bo Jackson was able to do it successfully and actually appeared in both sports (football and baseball) all star games.
Can anyone think of a player other than Bo Jackson who was actually great at two sports? Thoughts?
"You are not your desktop wallpaper"
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 12:12:00
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Charlie Ward comes to mind. He won the Heisman Trophy in 1993 and led Florida State to their first ever National Championship in Football. He was then drafted to the NBA and played point guard with the Knicks for 10+ years, leading them to the finals. He could have played either football or basketball at a pro level.
Randy Moss is supposedly a great basketball player and some say he could have played NBA.
Steve Nash is a great soccer player. His brother Martin played for the Canadian National Team for years. People say Steve could have too.
Shane Doan's sister Leanne is a standout basketball player, so I think athletics run in the family.
I think when it comes down to it, naturally gifted athletes could potentially play different sports. I would think a guy like Jordan could have been a great baseball player if it was his focus and where he was coached at an early age. But a 6'6" man that can jump out of the gym would be pushed towards basketball, not baseball. It's like a 280 lbs guy that can run a 4.5-40 would not be coached to be a tennis player.
But then there are people who are naturally talented. My fav. Gretzky comes to mind. He was a decent athlete, but his talents lended to hockey. I don't think he would have been nearly as good at any other sport.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 16:37:12
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Interesting topic Willus.
My strong personal view is that the statement "a great athlete would be great at any sport they practices" is false. Being great athletically can surely help when participating in any sport, but there are lots of other variables that makes an athlete elite in a particular sport/event.
There are certainly some athletes that have spanned sports and excelled at both (as you said, 'Bo knows') but this is not the norm. Others that come to mind that actually did it: Deon Sanders; Michael Jordon; <i'm sure there are a number of others>; and then there are the numerous others who were good enough (drafted in several pro sport leagues) like Charlie Ward (NFL/NBA/MLB) and Quinn Buckner but chose to only play 1 sport. It's debatable, but I would argue that the best of the best was Jim Thorpe (Olympic gold in decathalon, played pro football, pro basketball, and pro baseball).
I certainly believe that natural athletism plays a key part in become an elite athlete, but in my mind, it's not enough by itself. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 16:58:56
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Larry Walker of MLB fame was apparently very good at hockey (he's a Canadian from Maple Ridge BC) but had to decide early which path to choose. Obviously he made a great choice!
I think that as long as there are obvious overlaps in skill sets, an athlete can excel in another sport assuming they receive the proper training from a resonably young age.
But as Beans says, if you're not physically designed for a sport (ie: linebackers or tennis players) you won't hit the elite level. Using the tennis player/football player analogy...you may find that a wide receiver might make a hell of a tennis player. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 17:04:49
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Oh, and I think it was easier 25+ years ago to play in multiple sports than it is now. In the last 25 years the athletic ability in all pro sports has quickly risen.
On top of that, the potential liability for a pro team that allows a player to participate in multiple sports is greater. They just wouldn't let it happen. So in my opinion, the days of Michael, Bo and Dion are over. |
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Guest5291
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Posted - 05/23/2007 : 17:09:19
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
Oh, and I think it was easier 25+ years ago to play in multiple sports than it is now. In the last 25 years the athletic ability in all pro sports has quickly risen.
On top of that, the potential liability for a pro team that allows a player to participate in multiple sports is greater. They just wouldn't let it happen. So in my opinion, the days of Michael, Bo and Dion are over.
Generally yes, but in Gretzky's case he wasnt even a great hockey player. And no 99 wouldnt have been able to play defence unless you can sit at the opposing blueline to avoid getting hit.
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 17:48:41
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
Oh, and I think it was easier 25+ years ago to play in multiple sports than it is now. In the last 25 years the athletic ability in all pro sports has quickly risen.
On top of that, the potential liability for a pro team that allows a player to participate in multiple sports is greater. They just wouldn't let it happen. So in my opinion, the days of Michael, Bo and Dion are over.
I completely agree with your first point but although I agree with your second point in principle, I still don't think those days are quite over. |
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GOWINGS19
Rookie
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 20:37:13
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Deione Sanders was a great at football and good at baseball for the cowboys and cincinnati Reds
"I don’t need to score the goal. I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals." -Vladmir Konstantinov |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 06:59:13
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I'm a little torn on it myself. I guess it depends on the level of play considered great in each sport. Beans mentioned Gretzky, who, in fact has said that as a teen his passion was actually baseball and apparently he was quite good at it. Had he played baseball I have a hard time believing he would have accomplished anywhere near what he did in Hockey. I don't know. Maybe he could have been the best Table Tennis player of all time?
I think we've all known people who were great athletes and were good at every sport you saw them play. They have been blessed with the natural ability, hand/eye coordination, drive and determination etc... that makes them good. Above average at every sport.
But I have a hard time believing an athlete could dominate two sports.
Until they invent a time machine and start one of the greats off in another sport I guess we'll never know. But when you see a guy like Mario who dominated in hockey and then is so good at golf when he hasn't put in the practice time like he would have had he chose that sport, it makes you wonder...
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 08:11:45
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As a member of our high school table tennis team in the late '70s (pretty sad, I know), I'm confident I could take Gretzky in a ping pong battle! His glory years in that sport would have been in the '80s, clearly a decade in which ping pong players lacked strong defensive abilities. And if things got physical, Semenko wouldn't be there to fight his battles!
Sorry, couldn't resist! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 09:33:52
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No Andyhack, you are dead wrong. Gretzky would have been a great ping pong player, but only offensively. He would have hung out at the net just smashed it down the other players through. But, he would have had the most ESPPSA(Even Strenght Ping Pong Shots Against) so he would have been horrible defensively.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 10:49:59
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Teehehe
Seriously though I think he would have been a great Ping Pong player. It was in no way a shot at him. The hand eye coordination required to be great at it is incredible.
I bet he would have been a great tennis player too. Andy you are a fellow tennis fan. What do you think? A McEnroe type I would guess. Finesse, smarts and drive.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 11:02:43
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Yeah, his hand-eye coordination defintely would have made him a force to be reckoned with (by you, me and all the other non-Asian players). The Asian players would have toyed with him the same way they used to toy with me.
By the way, I read somewhere that McEnroe once played Ryan O'Neil in ping pong (or was it squash?) and they almost got into a fight. So Gretzky might want to give Davey S. a call after all.
In any case, Messier would have had the better "overall" table tennis game. 
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GOWINGS19
Rookie
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 11:20:20
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have you guys ever seen those ping pong championships on tv...these guys are like 15 feet back from the table just ripping it back and forth kinda cool
"I don’t need to score the goal. I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals." -Vladmir Konstantinov |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2007 : 18:34:42
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Dave Winfield played college basketball, and baseball on full scholarship at the University of Minnesota. But amazingly was drafted by the Minnesota Vikings of the NFL, he never played college football.
I don’t know if he could actually skate but the WHA assigned Winfield's rights to the Minnesota fighting Saints as a publicity stunt…
That’s four sports, I wonder if he plays golf, now that he is retired…
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 00:48:23
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| It would make sense that since Gretzky dominated in a physical sport while being such a small guy that CLEARLY if his prefered sport was baseball - a non-contact sport- that he would have been pretty dominant in that one too. |
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I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie
Sweden
217 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 02:04:59
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I think if a guy is at elite level in a ballsport he would have a natural "bounce understanding" and be way over average in most ball sports with very little training but probably wouldn´t be so good at non ball sports such as curling or high jump.
(Time differance Pickuphockey-Sweden approx +9 hours 1min 5sek......so I can always blame it on Jetlag.) |
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I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie
Sweden
217 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 02:14:15
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And I read your ping pong discussion, the most famous athlete in China is Lao Wa (The ever green tree) or Jan-Ove Waldner wich is his swedish name. He´s the equivalent of Gretzky in hockey and has been called the Mozart of ping pong.
(Time differance Pickuphockey-Sweden approx +9 hours 1min 5sek......so I can always blame it on Jetlag.) |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 02:14:45
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quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
It would make sense that since Gretzky dominated in a physical sport while being such a small guy that CLEARLY if his prefered sport was baseball - a non-contact sport- that he would have been pretty dominant in that one too.
Although I agree that it's possible, I dont believe that this conclusion can be made - It's not so clear. Difference sports require different skills and although athletisicm can help you have natural ability to be 'good', it takes a lot more than that to get 'elite'. I think that that is pretty clear. ;) |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 11:08:37
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Hand-eye co-ordination, trajectory estimation, superior athleticism, the already proven drive to practice enough in a sport to become an elite athlete, to be more specific, are some reasons why we can assume Gretzky - as a opposed to I or you - would be more likely than average to be a pro baseball player. Or even, very likely ? This applies to all gifted hockey players that were small in stature. Stamina, endurance, hand-foot co-ordination, health, balance and leg-speed & strength are some of the reasons why any athlete would excel in another sport.
Is it true that multi-sport athletes are less common today ? Or is it because they are only professionals in one sport due to the modern nature of the business of sport - contract 'off-season safety' clauses, longer seasons, endorsement oppurtunities that lessen financial burdens/desires. Up until the 30's and 40's, to maintain your amateur status was of supreme importance. Are there reasons why that would have resulted in increased numbers of multi-sporters? Or conversely, the money to be made as a modern athlete renders it pointless to be a multi-sport athlete. Enjoy your off-season wallowing in your riches rather than making more in another sport, subsequently lowering your quality of life with little or no downtime.
Based on that I would conclude that the modern athlete is just as able, but far less willing, to be a multi-sport competitor. |
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chooch
Top Prospect
Afghanistan
60 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 13:33:12
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quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
It would make sense that since Gretzky dominated in a physical sport while being such a small guy that CLEARLY if his prefered sport was baseball - a non-contact sport- that he would have been pretty dominant in that one too.
What position do ya think he would have played, chubbypickle?
a 165 pound.......what? catcher???outfleider? 3rd baseman?????
I think he woudl have made a fine softball player. There is no evidence that he had any talent as a baseball player.
I am Ogopogo's bodyguard |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2007 : 01:25:17
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there are some great bnatural athelets but i mean a lot of the links are seen between the same sport there have been many many pro football players that went on for careers in baseball regie sanders was one series away from a world series ring and then he would have had a superbowl and world series ring,, dion sanders apprently once played a nfl and mlb game in the same day (i dont know how true this is but so i ve herd) brett farve was drafted into the mlb as a short stop,, chris drury was at boston college as a pitcher and for hockey,, some people are just winners at anything they put there minds too,,, i thnk its a bit nire mental then just raw talent i think some people are just born to appkly themselves and be the best they can be at whaT they do,,, its sorta how a hard working employee who is quick and efficient will be a hard working efficient employee in a great deal of domains you put himn in,,,
Pasty |
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Guest6916
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Posted - 05/28/2007 : 09:16:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
there are some great bnatural athelets but i mean a lot of the links are seen between the same sport there have been many many pro football players that went on for careers in baseball regie sanders was one series away from a world series ring and then he would have had a superbowl and world series ring,, dion sanders apprently once played a nfl and mlb game in the same day (i dont know how true this is but so i ve herd) brett farve was drafted into the mlb as a short stop,, chris drury was at boston college as a pitcher and for hockey,, some people are just winners at anything they put there minds too,,, i thnk its a bit nire mental then just raw talent i think some people are just born to appkly themselves and be the best they can be at whaT they do,,, its sorta how a hard working employee who is quick and efficient will be a hard working efficient employee in a great deal of domains you put himn in,,,Pasty
one word...."Spellcheck"! |
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Great athletes are great athletes? 
