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chooch
Top Prospect
Afghanistan
60 Posts |
 Posted - 05/30/2007 : 17:51:40
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Its often stated that the poll was biased against players from Quebec because of the makeup of the so called experts. Does anyone have a list of the experts who voted?
I am Ogopogo's bodyguard
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 15:46:36
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Was this a new list or the one from 1997?
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Guest7418
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Posted - 05/31/2007 : 17:04:30
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No, it wasn't biased.
I thought they did a rather good job completing a difficult task.
There were certainly some great french Canadian players on the list, so I'm not sure what might have sparked your 'bias' thought unless you are French Canadian and wanted to see Richard, Beliveau, LaFleur, and Carboneau in the top 5....... |
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chooch
Top Prospect
Afghanistan
60 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 18:58:59
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quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
Was this a new list or the one from 1997?
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
no, the 1997 one.
I am Ogopogo's bodyguard |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 19:33:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7418
No, it wasn't biased.
I thought they did a rather good job completing a difficult task.
There were certainly some great french Canadian players on the list, so I'm not sure what might have sparked your 'bias' thought unless you are French Canadian and wanted to see Richard, Beliveau, LaFleur, and Carboneau in the top 5.......
Where was Lafleur ranked?
I don't have enough info to comment on Chooch's question but, with respect to Lafleur, I do think that generally speaking the generation behind me (guys born after '75 lets say) don't have a full appreciation of the guy. It's natural I guess - younger guys never saw him play. There is not enough about him at the HHOF in my opinion. I don't know if that is an anti-French thing (somehow doubt it) but I do think it is related to an over emphasis on Gretzky thing.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 20:31:25
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Here are the top 50
1. Wayne Gretzky, C
2. Bobby Orr, D
3. Gordie Howe*, RW
4. Mario Lemieux, C
5. Maurice Richard, RW
6. Doug Harvey, D
7. Jean Beliveau, C
8. Bobby Hull*, LW
9. Terry Sawchuk, G
10. Eddie Shore, D
11. Guy Lafleur, RW
12. Mark Messier, C/LW
13. Jacques Plante, G
14. Raymond Bourque, D
15. Howie Morenz, C
16. Glenn Hall, G
17. Stan Mikita, C
18. Phil Esposito, C
19. Denis Potvin, D
20. Mike Bossy, RW
21. Ted Lindsay, LW
22. Red Kelly, D/C
23. Bobby Clarke, C
24. Larry Robinson, D
25. Ken Dryden, G
26. Frank Mahovlich*, LW
27. Milt Schmidt, C
28. Paul Coffey, D
29. Henri Richard, C
30. Bryan Trottier, C
31. d***ie Moore, LW
32. Newsy Lalonde, C
33. Syl Apps, C
34. Bill Durnan, G
35. Patrick Roy, G
36. Charlie Conacher, RW
37. Jaromir Jagr, RW
38. Marcel Dionne, C
39. Joe Malone, RW/C
40. Chris Chelios, D
41. Dit Clapper, RW/D
42. Bernie Geoffrion, RW
43. Tim Horton, D
44. Bill Cook, RW
45. Johnny Bucyk, LW
46. George Hainsworth, G
47. Gilbert Perreault, C
48. Max Bentley, C
49. Brad Park, D
50. Jari Kurri, RW
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 09:27:21
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I don't believe it was biased at all. The French Canadian players are in fact well represented on this list and if anything are maybe a little high in some instances because they were on the Habs dynasties. Look at where Dionne is ranked for instance. Had he been on late the 70's Canadiens his ranking would skyrocket to top 15 I'm sure. Dionne had a more consistent and productive career than Lafleur did. Lafleur had an amazing peak but Dionne didn't taper off like Lafleur. Lafleur is 11th because of his Habs roster spot.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
Edited by - willus3 on 06/01/2007 09:29:50 |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 10:17:14
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1997 Hockey News Panel of Judges...
Don Cherry
Bob McKenzie
Milt Dunnell
d*** Irvin
Stan Fischler
Al Arbour
Marcel Pronovost
Scotty Bowman
Franke Selke
Harry Sinden
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 11:25:12
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quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
1997 Hockey News Panel of Judges...
Don Cherry
Bob McKenzie
Milt Dunnell
d*** Irvin
Stan Fischler
Al Arbour
Marcel Pronovost
Scotty Bowman
Franke Selke
Harry Sinden
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
I could be wrong but this isn't the complete list is it? I thought there were more on the panel.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 13:12:04
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I don't think the list is bias as much as it is geared towards offensive talents. 19 out of the top 50 are defense or goalies. More than 60% of the players are forwards and many of them were known for their offense. It's somewhat unfortunatey, but in the minds of many hockey fans and "hockey minds" offense = good play. Look at Crosby, no where near the defensive player that Lecavalier is, yet is regarded higher in the media.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 14:08:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I don't think the list is bias as much as it is geared towards offensive talents. 19 out of the top 50 are defense or goalies. More than 60% of the players are forwards and many of them were known for their offense. It's somewhat unfortunatey, but in the minds of many hockey fans and "hockey minds" offense = good play. Look at Crosby, no where near the defensive player that Lecavalier is, yet is regarded higher in the media.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane??
So I'm kinda wondering why you don't regard Crosby higher then Beans? 
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 15:53:31
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I never said anywhere that I agree that offensive is more important than defense. Other than me being a fan of Gretzky(whom I don't think was a poor defender, just average, but that is an exhasted conversation) most of the guys I like are great two way players with an offensive edge. Have I mis-represented myself??
My point was that MOST hockey media folks seem to favor offensive players to defensive players.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 16:24:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I never said anywhere that I agree that offensive is more important than defense. Other than me being a fan of Gretzky(whom I don't think was a poor defender, just average, but that is an exhasted conversation) most of the guys I like are great two way players with an offensive edge. Have I mis-represented myself??
My point was that MOST hockey media folks seem to favor offensive players to defensive players.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane??
Not to be nit picky but you voted offense in the poll offense vs defense.
I'm just going by some of the guys I've read you like and how high you rank certain players. Coffey for example. Sorry. It was a little off topic anyway.
I agree with your point though that offense is generally favoured. It must be. It's the only way to explain Gretzky.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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Guest4462
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Posted - 06/01/2007 : 19:27:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Look at Crosby, no where near the defensive player that Lecavalier is, yet is regarded higher in the media.
Not a fair comparison at this point.. LeCavalier had just as many defensive problems in his first few years in the league until he bought into a system and learned how to play a little more D. Give Crosby a few years to catch up. |
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Guest7883
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Posted - 06/02/2007 : 03:29:31
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
1997 Hockey News Panel of Judges...
Don Cherry
Bob McKenzie
Milt Dunnell
d*** Irvin
Stan Fischler
Al Arbour
Marcel Pronovost
Scotty Bowman
Franke Selke
Harry Sinden
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
I could be wrong but this isn't the complete list is it? I thought there were more on the panel.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper"
Not sure this is complete either |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 18:25:39
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With all due respect Willus, I think you views on Gretzky are a little skued. The same way some people put him on above the rest, I think you are knocking him back a little more than most would think is accurate.
Do you seriously remember him being that poor of a defensive player?? If so, how are you the minority in that thought?? I'm not talking about people who say, "Gretzky's god, blah blah blah." either.
And yes, I too seem to favor player with a bit more offensive skills. But I feel my favorite players are good two way hockey players with an offensive edge.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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stastnysforever
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
301 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 14:42:06
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The reason that people like offense more is because they like to see some goals, most people find a game with almost no scoring boring, personally I like low scoring affairs
what do Calgary and a tea bag have in common- they're both only good for one cup |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 14:53:30
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I am sure there were more on the panel of judges, but those are the only names I can find so far...
Not sure how accurate, but this is from Wikipedia...
The Hockey News named a committee of 50 hockey experts (former NHL players, past and present writers, broadcasters, coaches and hockey executives) to select and rank the 50 greatest players in NHL history.
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Edited by - PuckNuts on 06/04/2007 15:01:52 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 15:11:22
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quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
I am sure there were more on the panel of judges, but those are the only names I can find so far...
Not sure how accurate, but this is from Wikipedia...
The Hockey News named a committee of 50 hockey experts (former NHL players, past and present writers, broadcasters, coaches and hockey executives) to select and rank the 50 greatest players in NHL history.
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
I thought it was something like that.
If I remember I'll look in the book when I get home and post them.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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ultimatetitman
Rookie
Canada
244 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 15:21:42
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I have only 2 arguements.
d***ie Moore should have been in the top 20.
Jari Kurri should NOT be in the top 50. Sure he was a good player, but what would we know about him if he didn't play with Gretzky? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 17:30:54
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Kurri maybe doesn't belong in the top 50, but sure you would have heard of him. Not only were there very few Europeans playing when he did, but Gretzky or not, 601 goals is hard to not hear about. Without Gretzky he maybe doesn't have 600, but he was still a hell of a sniper. He was the idol of most of the great Finnish players like Selanne. Maybe not top 50, but a hell of an offensive hockey player.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
Edited by - Beans15 on 06/04/2007 17:34:21 |
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Guest2792
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Posted - 06/08/2007 : 03:16:40
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vcvcvcvc  |
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Topic |
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The Hockey News Top 100: was it biased? 
