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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
 Posted - 05/31/2007 : 21:10:56
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First, thanks to Beans for the list.
Topic: If you had to pick one player who you think was ranked too high on this list and one player who you think was ranked too low on this list, who would they be?
1. Wayne Gretzky, C
2. Bobby Orr, D
3. Gordie Howe*, RW
4. Mario Lemieux, C
5. Maurice Richard, RW
6. Doug Harvey, D
7. Jean Beliveau, C
8. Bobby Hull*, LW
9. Terry Sawchuk, G
10. Eddie Shore, D
11. Guy Lafleur, RW
12. Mark Messier, C/LW
13. Jacques Plante, G
14. Raymond Bourque, D
15. Howie Morenz, C
16. Glenn Hall, G
17. Stan Mikita, C
18. Phil Esposito, C
19. Denis Potvin, D
20. Mike Bossy, RW
21. Ted Lindsay, LW
22. Red Kelly, D/C
23. Bobby Clarke, C
24. Larry Robinson, D
25. Ken Dryden, G
26. Frank Mahovlich*, LW
27. Milt Schmidt, C
28. Paul Coffey, D
29. Henri Richard, C
30. Bryan Trottier, C
31. d***ie Moore, LW
32. Newsy Lalonde, C
33. Syl Apps, C
34. Bill Durnan, G
35. Patrick Roy, G
36. Charlie Conacher, RW
37. Jaromir Jagr, RW
38. Marcel Dionne, C
39. Joe Malone, RW/C
40. Chris Chelios, D
41. Dit Clapper, RW/D
42. Bernie Geoffrion, RW
43. Tim Horton, D
44. Bill Cook, RW
45. Johnny Bucyk, LW
46. George Hainsworth, G
47. Gilbert Perreault, C
48. Max Bentley, C
49. Brad Park, D
50. Jari Kurri, RW
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 21:22:53
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Chilios is too high in my opinion. Longevity seems to be his way in. Great Hockey Player, but 40th all time?? Nope.
Messier is low. I would put him #4 or 5.
My top 5 would be:
1) Gretzky
2) Orr
3) Lemieux
4th and 5th) Howe and Messier. Can't choose between them.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 21:27:12
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| I haven't decided my answer to the question yet but I actually think my favorite player, Ray Bourque, is a little bit too high on this list. Potvin maybe should be higher than him. I am pretty sure that my answer for the guy who is too low will be Trottier. |
Edited by - andyhack on 05/31/2007 21:28:02 |
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I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie
Sweden
217 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 01:18:01
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Before I post anything I regret just explain what kind of list this is please.
Is it the top 50 canadian players ever or top 50 in the nhl or what?
(Time differance Pickuphockey-Sweden approx +9 hours 1min 5sek......so I can always blame it on Jetlag.) |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 06:25:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Chilios is too high in my opinion. Longevity seems to be his way in. Great Hockey Player, but 40th all time?? Nope.
Messier is low. I would put him #4 or 5.
My top 5 would be:
1) Gretzky
2) Orr
3) Lemieux
4th and 5th) Howe and Messier. Can't choose between them.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane??
Beans this list was made in 1997. Chelios was 35 at the time.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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Guest8372
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Posted - 06/01/2007 : 08:49:58
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Roy is too low at 35 and the 5th goalie on the list. Definitely above Dryden.
the Flower is too high, but still should on the list at around the 20s rather than 11. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 09:10:18
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I'm also Canadian, this is the top 50 players on a list of 100 that was done in 1997 by the Hockey News. It is regarded as an accuracte ranking of the best NHL players of all time.
Willus, you are right about Chilios. After thinking about it, 40th is probibly about right. I have an inherant distaste for him. Not as a hockey player, but some of the crap that he pulls. Him skating off the ice and not shaking hands with the Ducks after losing that series was the final straw. I find he doesn't have a lot of class.
Has this list been re-done since 97??
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 09:20:04
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Everyone needs to keep in mind that this list was made in 1997 so some players rankings were based on what they thought would happen in the rest of their careers as they were still active at the time of this list being made.
I'd say Jagr ended up about where he should be but Roy should be quite a bit higher.
Gretzky is too high. Move him to 4th and move the other three up in the order they are in.
Brad Park is waaaaaay too low. He should be up around Potvin and Potvin should be higher. That Coffey is ahead of Park is ridiculous.
Trottier should be higher. High 20's I would say.
Kurri is too high.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 10:33:05
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Random Thoughts:
1. Willus - was Mahovlich really THAT good? I hesitate to comment on guys I didn't see in their primes, but that one kind of stood out to me a bit (wonder if he should be more like in the 40 to 50 range anyway).
2. Also, I know Bobby Hull was amazing, but if you think Lafleur should go down a bit, I wonder if Hull should also go down a few places too. Wherever they are I think Trottier probably should be very close. For me he is the one who could go up the greatest number of places from where he is currently ranked. He or Park anyway.
3. Am I the only one who thinks Ray is too high? I love the guy but question ranking him ahead of Potvin and Trottier in particular.
4. Dionne really is a special case, isn't he? So hard to say as he never even was that close to being on a very good team the way a lot of these guys were. We should at least give him the benefit of the doubt on the question of how he would have done in my opinion, so I think he should be in the top 25 anyway.
5 Where did Neely end up? Shouldn't he be ahead of Kurri?
6. I think they should have made a separate list for goalies - they just can't be compared to the other players on the ice.
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I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie
Sweden
217 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 11:43:04
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I don´t think I know half as much about hockey as some of the people on this forum and it´s an interesting list, some of the names I´ve never heard of. The list is a bit old but I think canadien players are a bit overrepresented in my mind (no offense).
(Time differance Pickuphockey-Sweden approx +9 hours 1min 5sek......so I can always blame it on Jetlag.) |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 11:46:12
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Hackvlich,
I can't really comment on Mahovlich either. I'm not that much older than yourself.  But from what I'm told he was something to behold coming down the wing. Much like Beliveau. Fast and graceful.
It's funny you mention Hull. I had also thought about this. Is he really that good? After I thought about it for a bit, yes he was that good. He was incredibly fast. Incredibly strong. Had the hardest shot and was an amazing scorer. I honestly can't think of a better left winger.
Ray may be a little high. If they were all available in a draft for instance, I would take both Potvin and Park ahead of Bourque. Though you really couldn't go wrong with any of them.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 11:55:24
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quote:
Originally posted by I´m also Cånädiön
I don´t think I know half as much about hockey as some of the people on this forum and it´s an interesting list, some of the names I´ve never heard of. The list is a bit old but I think canadien players are a bit overrepresented in my mind (no offense).
(Time differance Pickuphockey-Sweden approx +9 hours 1min 5sek......so I can always blame it on Jetlag.)
Remember this was 10 years ago. Many of the great Europeans were just starting their careers then. May I ask who you think should perhaps be on the list or higher on the list?
I'm trying to think of some that may have been missed. Stastny maybe. I'd put him ahead of Kurri.
Makita is high on the list, and rightly so.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 13:07:18
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Good Point Willus, Europeans have only been playing in the NHL for about 25 years, with the expection of a few. It's not much of a surprise that many Canadians are on the list as they were, and still are, the largest number of NHL players.
I am also Canadian, if you think more Europeans should be on the list, who are you thinking about. I can think of Jagr, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Stastny that could possible crack the top 50, but who else?? It would be pretty dangerous on this site to discredit too many Canadian Players. Especially if you do not have first hand knowledge of their ability.
Surprisingly, I agree with all but one thing Willus has said. You know then one I don't agree with. However, guys like Park and Potvin being lower than say Coffey and Bourque has to do with hockey types putting more stake into offense than defense.
Consider that if Orr did not have half the offensive abilities he did it is unlikely he would be #2.(or a tie for #1, right Willus?)
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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