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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
 Posted - 01/14/2013 : 13:09:54
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So Vancouver just signed two defenseman since the lockout is officially over (yesterday) They got Jim Vandermeer and Cam Barker.
This is adding to a defensive core that already had Dan Hamhuis, Kevin Bieska, Jason Garrison, Keith Ballard, Alexander Edler, Andrew Alberts and Christopher Tanev.
My question is what is going on in Vancouver? Are they just making sure they have enough experienced defenseman to last the season or are they just planning a trade that would involve one of those defenseman?
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Edited by - n/a on 01/15/2013 04:35:08
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 14:42:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81
So Vancouver just signed two defenseman since the lockout is officially over (yesterday) They got Jim Vandermeer and Cam Barker.
This is adding to a defensive core that already had Dan Hamhuis, Kevin Bieska, Jason Garrison, Keith Ballard, Alexander Edler, Andrew Alberts and Christopher Tanev.
My question is what is going on in Vancouver? Are they just making sure they have enough experienced defenseman to last the season or are they just planning a trade that would involve one of those defenseman?
They are just making sure they have enough experienced defensemen to get through the season. Defensive depth and health has been an achilles heel for the Canucks in years past, they've learned from it. Barker and Vandermeer are also big guys, and they need that physical presence on the blueline - with the exception of Edler (and newly acquired Garrison), none of their top-6 are particularly large players or play physical games.
That being said - I do believe that there will be moves for the VAN defense this season. Ballard is almost certain to be an amnesty buyout this summer, unless he gets traded first. There is also some concern that they'll lose Edler this summer as a highly coveted UFA, and he may be on the trading block as a result.
Realistically, both Vandemeer and Barker are not top-6, unless there is an injury to one of the existing top-6 or something happens on the trade front.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 17:08:42
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Read an article regarding Kevin Connaughton as well about possibly being in the mix for a spot? However, when i look at his AHL numbers this season, they certainly don't stand out?
I agree, depth is the goal here. With Ballard possibly going, Edler a ? moving forward AND Alberts being basically a bottom pairing guy at best, it can't hurt to look for some other options who may possibly flourish in a new system? |
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Guest4377
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Posted - 01/14/2013 : 20:17:56
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I think the Oilers scooped the Canucks...again. The Oilers picked up Mark Fistrick from the Stars for a 3rd round pick. That's a better move (and defenseman) than what Vancouver picked up. But with Fistrick, Vandermeer or Barker, we're talking about an insurance defenseman or a 5th, 6th or 7th defenseman. But Fistrick is better, at 26 years old, than Barker or Vandermeer.
And how did the Oilers scoop the Canucks...again? Well, how about Justin Schultz, who despite the money being the same, picked Edmonton over Vancouver (and every other NHL team). Go figure, but Justin Schultz must have picked Edmonton for a reason, and guess what, it ain't the weather!
Something special is going on in Oil-town, and players who want to be part of a young building team get it! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 22:48:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4377
I think the Oilers scooped the Canucks...again. The Oilers picked up Mark Fistrick from the Stars for a 3rd round pick. That's a better move (and defenseman) than what Vancouver picked up. But with Fistrick, Vandermeer or Barker, we're talking about an insurance defenseman or a 5th, 6th or 7th defenseman. But Fistrick is better, at 26 years old, than Barker or Vandermeer.
And how did the Oilers scoop the Canucks...again? Well, how about Justin Schultz, who despite the money being the same, picked Edmonton over Vancouver (and every other NHL team). Go figure, but Justin Schultz must have picked Edmonton for a reason, and guess what, it ain't the weather!
Something special is going on in Oil-town, and players who want to be part of a young building team get it!
How do you know VAN was in the running for him? A 3rd round draft pick doesn't indicate much of a bidding war... Good "steal" |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2013 : 05:00:26
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Well, they need a better defence now that they are about to deal their starting goalie to replace him with a young, unproven back-up! 
I would say this is just Vancouver trying to learn from past experiences . . . wouldn't even call it "mistakes", per se. They have had terrible luck with their defensive corps in the past, so it's always a good idea to get some depth (and it's not that high end either, just pieces).
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2013 : 16:32:49
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Lol....the Oilers "scooped" the Canucks on Schultz! Umm, pretty sure Justin Schultz "scooped" every other team in the league, especially the Ducks who got nothing for his services after having drafted him!!!
There's no hiding the fact that it's the future in Edmonton with other young talent, and not the weather , that lured him there. I'm not about to claim the Oilers will suck forever, however, after many years of futility, it's their turn to shine. Perhaps not this season, but in the next 5 years they'll likely be challenging for the top! Kudos to them. As a Canucks fan, i'm fully aware "our" window is closing quickly and as the Sedin's get older, somewhat of a rebuild is inevitable. I do get a kick out of comments like this "scooping" one from someone who likely roots for the Oilers and has suddenly crawled out from under his stone to start to show some support. I bet by this time next year, you even have an actual account/screen name here.  |
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Gostarsgo12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2013 : 20:08:19
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| You can never have enough D-men and in a shortened season where the time span is limited to 48 games, a serious injury to one or 2 dmen will knock them for likely the remainder or season and possibly playoffs. The Canucks as usual are expecting a serious playoff push as they should be. Vandermeer is expierenced and gritty a guy im sure any team wouldnt mind putting out on the ice as a 5-6 dman just to log some minutes. As for Barker, still young but has expierence. A lot better then listening to that comical story on sportsnet today about bringing up Reilly or whatever his name his like the Leafs (Could but will probably not do) if they have learned from the past and hope to avoid there lacklustre cycle. The fact is you can never have enough depth barring injuries. As for the stars trading Fistric to the Oil for a thirder.... sigh :( |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 16:22:39
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All this talk about the Canucks adding defensemen has deflected from their issues with forwards. Their 2nd line looks more like their third line from last year and without Kesler and Booth returning to form quickly whenever they return from injury I don't like Vancouver's chances much.
I think their best shot was actually last year and it didn't happen.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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Gostarsgo12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 18:37:28
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| agreed Beans, Wonder how that Hodgson for Kassian deal will be evaluated come mid season. Cuz he would look much better as a top 6 right now |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 20:19:07
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I still think the Canucks will make the playoffs, but in this shortened season with the Kesler injury still affecting him (i thought he was supposed to be back by Christmas originally?) and now Booth gone for 4-6, you are right, their 2nd line is pretty much now their old 3rd line of Lapierre, Hansen and Higgins. The line they're putting together for what they're still, for now, calling the 2nd line is Kassian, Ebbett and Raymond (with an outside shot that Schroeder gets a look)? That's nothing but ugly in my mind and doesn't bode well for their depth. It will be extremely easy for teams to focus on shutting down the Sedin's line with what follows them off the bench. I'm guessing that their PP will still be good enough to win them some games and get them into the playoffs maybe in the 4-6 spots and hopefully by then the injured guys are back, in shape and producing?
There's also a lot of talk around town about this Booth injury (coupled with Kesler's) possibly speeding up a deal with Luongo as the Canucks are obviously more desperate now for some forward help. I get the feeling that Gillis might be working on a bigger deal with a guy like Edler in there? If there's any truth to the rumour that Philly has some interest in Lou, it's possible that Lou and Edler could be dealt there as Philly could use some defensive help? How about, and i'm just throwing this out there.....
Luongo, Edler and a 2nd to Philly
for......
S. Couturier and Simmonds (or Voracek) to Vancouver
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 22:51:03
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I was thinking about Hodgson as well the other day... the opportunity that he was looking for all that time in VAN suddenly right in front of him. They could use a solid second line centre right now.
The defense has become the least of my worries now for VAN. I too think they'll make the playoffs, but if Kesler and Booth are gone until March (or longer) they'll be hard pressed to win their division, never mind the President's trophy. I still think they'll make the post season, and if Kesler is back by then and they're all healthy, they could make some noise. We'll see.
Alex, I'm not sure that VAN has decided they can't resign Edler yet - and I don't think they'll trade him unless they're sure they cannot resign him at a reasonable level, or if a deal that is Too Good To Pass Up comes along. I think your deal undervalues what would be going PHI's way. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2013 : 07:26:23
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Alex, I'm not sure that VAN has decided they can't resign Edler yet - and I don't think they'll trade him unless they're sure they cannot resign him at a reasonable level, or if a deal that is Too Good To Pass Up comes along. I think your deal undervalues what would be going PHI's way.
Well, in fairness nuxfan, for almost a year (since the Luongo trade talks started up), i've been saying that he won't fetch nearly as much as many think in return due to the contract so for me to come on here and claim they should trade Luongo and Edler for Giroux, both Schenn's, Couturier and two 1sts wouldn't be fair. Even with the new CBA, i think Gillis is swinging for the fence a bit with some of the rumours i hear (top 6 fwd, top prospect and a pick) and therefore maybe to some my proposal seems to favour Philly? As far as Edler goes, i was very high on him a couple years ago as were many in these parts. A lot of others who don't see him game in game out prob never saw that stretch a couple years ago where he looked like he was going to make that next step and be a true #1 all around dman. Well, in fairness, he regressed last year and now no one knows exactly what they're gonna get from him, therefore, in my mind, lowering his value.
Personally i think if they got that deal with Voracek they'd be laughing, though myself, i'd take the one with Simmonds if i had to to get the deal done. Yes, they might be able to resign Edler, but just how good is this guy gonna be? Also, some might think that Couturier would be a waste on the 3rd line once Kesler returns? Maybe they go after B. Schenn instead?
ETA....Schenn is listed as a C as well, but i believe he's been on the wing or plays both (meaning once Kesler's back, he could be a winger). |
Edited by - Alex116 on 01/17/2013 08:13:20 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2013 : 08:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Well, in fairness nuxfan, for almost a year (since the Luongo trade talks started up), i've been saying that he won't fetch nearly as much as many think in return due to the contract so for me to come on here and claim they should trade Luongo and Edler for Giroux, both Schenn's, Couturier and two 1sts wouldn't be fair. Even with the new CBA, i think Gillis is swinging for the fence a bit with some of the rumours i hear (top 6 fwd, top prospect and a pick) and therefore maybe to some my proposal seems to favour Philly? As far as Edler goes, i was very high on him a couple years ago as were many in these parts. A lot of others who don't see him game in game out prob never saw that stretch a couple years ago where he looked like he was going to make that next step and be a true #1 all around dman. Well, in fairness, he regressed last year and now no one knows exactly what they're gonna get from him, therefore, in my mind, lowering his value.
Personally i think if they got that deal with Voracek they'd be laughing, though myself, i'd take the one with Simmonds if i had to to get the deal done. Yes, they might be able to resign Edler, but just how good is this guy gonna be? Also, some might think that Couturier would be a waste on the 3rd line once Kesler returns? Maybe they go after B. Schenn instead?
ETA....Schenn is listed as a C as well, but i believe he's been on the wing or plays both (meaning once Kesler's back, he could be a winger).
When I said undervalued, I was referring more to Edler than Luongo... Edler may have regressed a bit last year, but his previous year was so good it would be hard not to. Its tough to argue with a defenseman that is getting 50 pts a year, plays 24 min/game, has a booming shot from the point, is 6'3/215 and has finally figured out how to play a physical game as well as a skill game, he has become quite complete. He's only 26, and has a lot of years ahead of him. He's a top-2 pairing on arguably the best defensive group in the NHL, and I think he'd be top-2 on nearly every team in the NHL.
To trade away something like that - along with an all-star goalie - for Couturier and Simmonds, is not fair value IMO. There are other dmen that Gillis could package into a deal to sweeten the Luongo contract if need be.
The only way I see that happening is if VAN doesn't think they can resign him to a long-term deal. If he goes UFA this summer, I don't think its unreasonable to think he could fetch 5-6M a season, and I suspect it will cost VAN about 5M on a full 8 year deal to keep him. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 08:35:55
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What might be forgotten to non-Vancouver fans is that they signed Garrison over the offseason . . . you know, that guy who was leading all defencemen in points for a while in Florida last year?
I know I forgot it until reading my daily dose of hockey news. 
He will certainly add some offense to their first, or possibly even second power play unit.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 10:41:54
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
What might be forgotten to non-Vancouver fans is that they signed Garrison over the offseason . . . you know, that guy who was leading all defencemen in points for a while in Florida last year?
I know I forgot it until reading my daily dose of hockey news.
He will certainly add some offense to their first, or possibly even second power play unit.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Like I said, the VAN defense is a pretty formidable group - assuming Garrison does in VAN what he did in FLA (unlike Ballard), they sport an excellent top-4 in Edler/Hamhuis/Garrison/Bieksa, and a pretty good 5-6 with any 2 of Alberts/Tanev/Vandermeer/Barker. Edler and Garrison should provide a ton of offense, and Bieksa and Hamhuis are one of the best shutdown pairs in the league. VAN has a history of fielding a strong defensive group, and this is one of the best they've had.
Not sure how the PP units will stack up, but I expect Garrison to be quarterbacking on unit#2 (Edler plays first PP), or they can put Garrison and Edler together to stack the blueline if need be. At 6'2/220, he's also able to play the physical game and will do so.
Although Ballard is technically there now, I'm counting him out for now, as I'd be stunned if he was not a buyout in the summer. And I sincerely hope they can hang on to Edler for a long time to come. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 11:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Not sure how the PP units will stack up, but I expect Garrison to be quarterbacking on unit#2 (Edler plays first PP), or they can put Garrison and Edler together to stack the blueline if need be. At 6'2/220, he's also able to play the physical game and will do so.
I would guess that Garrison would be on with Edler to load up the 1st unit. The Canucks, especially with the puck control of the Sedins, often have their 1st unit on for 3/4 of the PP leaving little to the 2nd unit therefore they're gonna want to load up on the top unit. Having said that, Bieksa has done ok with his time on the top unit when he's been there? Also you have to keep in mind that with the lack of depth from the Kesler/Booth injuries, the 2nd unit will be even less impressive thus resulting in the top unit playing as much PP time as humanly possible!
Also, and this relates to Slozo "remembering" Garrison, i am not sold on him. I admittedly haven't seen him play much but i wanna see something from him before i judge him and his play, be it PP or otherwise! I'm hoping he can duplicate / build on what he did last year with Campbell (with Edler here). |
Edited by - Alex116 on 01/18/2013 11:25:31 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 20:20:18
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
The only way I see that happening is if VAN doesn't think they can resign him to a long-term deal. If he goes UFA this summer, I don't think its unreasonable to think he could fetch 5-6M a season, and I suspect it will cost VAN about 5M on a full 8 year deal to keep him.
Long term deal signed, 6yr/30M. I was wrong on the term, but right on the amount per year.
That means VAN's top-4 will be together for the next 4 years at least, with a total cap hit of 19.3M. Colour me happy. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 21:19:41
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Long term deal signed, 6yr/30M. I was wrong on the term, but right on the amount per year.
That means VAN's top-4 will be together for the next 4 years at least, with a total cap hit of 19.3M. Colour me happy.
WOW! Awesome news! I like the term at 6 more than 8! To me, 6 is long enough. If in 6 years time he's truly elite then you deal with it!
I'm not sure where the Habs and Subban are in negotiations, but this deal, though Edler was going to be UFA not RFA, must help them somewhat in determining Subban's market value. |
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Vancouver's defense 
