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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2013 :  08:49:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
Now that you've groaned at my punny wordsmithing, who do you think will be the first major piece from the Leafs line-up to leave?

Lots of speculation on the acquisition of Luongo, but now Reimer has turned any trade talk into a look at a surplus of defencemen . . . but there is still also talk of toughening up / upgrading some of our forwards as well. What will be Nonis' first footprint as GM on this Leafs team?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Choices:

None - no major trades until deadline passes
Komisarek
Liles
Franson
Gardiner
Holzer
Kostka
Mark Fraser
Gunnarsson
MacArthur
Bozak
Scrivens
Other . . . ?

(Anonymous Vote)

Edited by - slozo on 02/11/2013 08:51:18

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2013 :  10:05:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I said Franson, if for no other reason than the fact that he just hasn't seemed to fit in there. He was a healthy scratch on more than a few occasions last season and there were high expectations when he arrived there as he was believed to be a "budding star".

There were also some problems at the start of this year (contract wise i believe?) where there was talk he'd stay in Sweden (i think?). He's never seemed to fulfill his expectations in Toronto and there was talk he's been on the block since last year. Now, factor in his production thus far this season, a respectable 6pts in 9 games played i think and i think his stock may be high. Now, by "high", i don't mean other teams see the next Paul Coffey or Ray Bourque in him, but for a team with depth at the position, i could see the Leafs dealing him.
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
201 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2013 :  10:40:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i think Nonis would be smart to just sit tight and let this season ride out with the team as is. unless someone comes to him with an offer for a player(s) he can't pass up, then he shouldn't trade anyone. not yet at least. he needs to sit back and get a good evaluation of what he really has here.
the first move he'll make will be after the season is over, and that will be to use the new CBA clause to buy out Komisarek. after that it will hopefully be the announced signing of Getzlaf to a new long-term contract!
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



702 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2013 :  11:00:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Gipper.

The Leafs wont win the cup this year. If everything goes well they will slide in a playoff spot. Good experience for a bunch of kids. I say keep what you have, keep developping your assets and enjoy the ride, no matter how bumpy it will get.

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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2013 :  12:35:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Obvoiusly a D - man or 2 have to be moved.

The leafs defense looked really good Saturday night. Imagine they have J Gardiner....Carl. Gun and Mike Kom. not in the line up.

Thats 3 regulars not playing and their defense doesn`t look out of place.....if anything they looked better than usual...

Who do you sit when they return ?? K. Holzer looks great and he is huge......Frazer seems to be a good 5 - 6th d- man who fights and is also huge....

I personally wouldn`t dream of moving C. Franson...he shows flashes of stardom and again is huge....very mobile also.

My choice for movement would be M. Kom...( if possible )....Clark. Mac ( they have enough smallish players, get bigger )..........Dion . Phaneuf and a good prospect ( some package, NOT morgan O`rielly ) for a # 1 center.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2013 :  06:30:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Currently, the Leafs are playing:

Phaneuf - Holzer
Kostka - Liles
Fraser - Franson
with Komisarek sitting out most nights in the press box.

And Gardiner is almost ready to return to the club (reconditioning stint), and Gunnarsson will return in a week or two (hip injury). Rielly, our blue-chip prospect (nearly a guarantee to be a decent offensive d-man) will finish the year in the minors.

The new faces are Holzer, Kostka and Fraser.
Holzer was a guy expected to make the lineup/compete for a job, and he has been as good as expectations could have been. Kostka has been an absolute surprise though, loggin big minutes and playing very steady, defensive hockey. Fraser is a pick-up during the offseason who has fit in seamlessly . . . he is big, tough, and has been another steady defensive guy perfect for that 5th/6th defenceman role.

I see at least 1 move here, most likely Komisarek (once Gardiner is good to go). He has a difficult contract to move, and he hasn't been exactly showcased (bless Carlyle's heart for that, I think you go with your best guys and forget about that other stuff). But, d-men are dropping like fflies around the league, and a certainly Komi is still a serviceable defenceman who may find new life in a new place. Someone will want him.

The other possibilities are tantalising, however . . . in terms of maybe trading a player with more upside/value. Gardiner, packaged perhaps with MacArthur, could net a top 6 forward perhaps; Liles, once Gardiner and Gunnarsson are back, would also get good value back (he is far less likely to go though because he just signed a contract).

My guess is Komisarek goes first; but in order of likelihood, I'd also say it could be MacArthur or Gardiner. I keep mentioning Gardiner, because with Reilly coming up through the ranks . . . we just have too many offensive defencemen, and Rielly looks to have huge, top end upside.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
201 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2013 :  10:42:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
actually Slozo, i think they may be better off to keep Gardiner with the Marlies the rest of the season. concussion are a tricky thing to deal with and he should be given the necessary time to "heal" properly.
it's a short season, so i don't see the point in trying to rush him back unless one of the other current 6 starts slipping up.

to your point about trading him. i'd rather them send Kostka or Holzer back down, or even try to trade Liles before trading away Gardiner.
unless it involves us getting back a true no. 1 center, with lots of hockey left in him, then i'd say Gardiner is untouchable right now.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2013 :  11:28:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper

actually Slozo, i think they may be better off to keep Gardiner with the Marlies the rest of the season. concussion are a tricky thing to deal with and he should be given the necessary time to "heal" properly.
it's a short season, so i don't see the point in trying to rush him back unless one of the other current 6 starts slipping up.

to your point about trading him. i'd rather them send Kostka or Holzer back down, or even try to trade Liles before trading away Gardiner.
unless it involves us getting back a true no. 1 center, with lots of hockey left in him, then i'd say Gardiner is untouchable right now.



I agree with you, actually, for the most part.

My whole point would only be for trading Gardiner + potentially a MacArthur or perhaps Colbourne/other prospect to get a real quality player. Have to give somethign to get something, that's all I'm saying.

From a defensive management standpoint . . . as nice as it is to have a bunch of B+ level offensive defencemen (Liles, Franson, Gardiner, Gunnarsson) - you CAN have too many so that you start to misuse them and your team suffers. Might as well sell high, get a good return on them.

Franson I think is a big bodied offensive d-man coming into his own - and a good pp guy to keep.

Liles is steady, experienced, and a guy who can calm things down - need him on a very young team. Also a very good pp guy who is not terrible defensively.

Gunnarsson is so versatile that I don't want to get rid of him . . . whoever plays with him plays well, he can cover top pairing when needed or play excellent 4th/5th/6th defenceman minutes if needed. Chips in offensively.

All that combined with the inevitable coming of Reilly . . . means to me that if room isn't made now, it'll be have to be made later perhaps at a time that is inconvenient for us. Right now, with a shortened season and injuries piling up on D everywhere, I think we'd get a great return on Gardiner.

I really liked Gardiner, don't get me wrong - I just think we could REALLY upgrade where we need it most by dealing him (big chippy scoring winger; a top line centre, preferrably with size).

If I REALLY want to make a reach . . . and make a possible trade, here's one with Washington when they finally try and shake things up:

To Toronto:
Nicklas Backstrom (C)

To Washington:
Jake Gardiner (D), Clarke MacArthur (F), David Steckel (C)

Bozak moves to third line centre (Backstrom would be our new top line centreman obviously) and Komarov would play at wing.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3563 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2013 :  11:44:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
If I REALLY want to make a reach . . . and make a possible trade, here's one with Washington when they finally try and shake things up:

To Toronto:
Nicklas Backstrom (C)

To Washington:
Jake Gardiner (D), Clarke MacArthur (F), David Steckel (C)
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Do you think that is the best offer WSH will get for Backstrom, should he be made available? A 25 year old C with size, better than PPG his entire career? You are dreaming...
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
201 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2013 :  13:20:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, here's my only issue with pulling a trade like that right now. when there is a guy like Getzlaf looming as an upcoming UFA, i would play the wait and see game. until you have absolutely 0% chance of landing him as a UFA, then i wouldn't pull the trigger on any other deal unless it was a steal.
my thinking is that if you can sign Getzlaf long-term without giving up any assets for him (salary cap aside), then you can start looking at trades for other areas of improvement.

and even if we don't land Getzlaf, i'd really hesitate to trade a guy like Gardiner so quickly because he's potentially going to run our top PP unit in the long-term. in the meantime while Reilly continues to develop through the Jr's and the AHL over the next two seasons, we have Liles to run our 2nd PP unit. when Reilly is ready to make the jump to the NHL, then Liles becomes expendible. then you have Reilly run the 2nd PP unit in his place.

i see your point about pulling a trade while a players value is high, but at the same time.....is there anything wrong with keeping him?
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



702 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2013 :  16:24:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo your trade, well if Bozak goes into third line center, what happens with Kadri after that. If you are to trade for a first line center like Backstrom you should get rid of either Bozak, Grabovski or Kadri.

I'm not a big fan of trading promising prospects\young players. Gardiner, Reilly and Kadri should be kept with the team. I almost gave up on Kadri last year but now that Eakins did an awesome job with his development and that he is finally being utilized like he should under Carlyle he's a good asset to the organisation.

I understand that there is a need at first line center and that you need to give to gain, but I don't think this season is the right time. Maybe in the offseason or if a perfect deal appears on the table (like Burke did for Phaneuf)

No chance Komisarek gets traded, nobody would pick him up on waivers. buy out his contract in the offseason. Probably the only way they can get rid of him and his hefty contract.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2013 :  05:01:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

Slozo your trade, well if Bozak goes into third line center, what happens with Kadri after that. If you are to trade for a first line center like Backstrom you should get rid of either Bozak, Grabovski or Kadri.

I'm not a big fan of trading promising prospects\young players. Gardiner, Reilly and Kadri should be kept with the team. I almost gave up on Kadri last year but now that Eakins did an awesome job with his development and that he is finally being utilized like he should under Carlyle he's a good asset to the organisation.

I understand that there is a need at first line center and that you need to give to gain, but I don't think this season is the right time. Maybe in the offseason or if a perfect deal appears on the table (like Burke did for Phaneuf)

No chance Komisarek gets traded, nobody would pick him up on waivers. buy out his contract in the offseason. Probably the only way they can get rid of him and his hefty contract.



Well, I was just spitballing . . . and I agree, if we WERE to acquire a high quality top line centre, one of our other centres would have to go. And that would indeed be a very tough call, with the real emergence of Kadri (I had also given up on him, and have been so impressed with him this year) and Bozak (he's suddenly a fantastic face-off guy, kills penalties, and continues to improve his offensive numbers). We always sort of ASSUME as Leafs fans that Grabovski is that perfect second line guy . . . but who knows?

I don't disagree with your point on dealing away young talent, but . . . do you think the team will want Phaneuf, Gardiner, Liles, and eventually Reilly all on the same team? You can only have so many offensive weapons on defence before you start to mismanage and underuse them (ie on the pp).

I'll bet you anything Komisarek is gone before the trade deadline, btw. I can almost guarantee it*

*just like I guaranteed Luongo coming to town

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4517 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2013 :  05:05:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by slozo
If I REALLY want to make a reach . . . and make a possible trade, here's one with Washington when they finally try and shake things up:

To Toronto:
Nicklas Backstrom (C)

To Washington:
Jake Gardiner (D), Clarke MacArthur (F), David Steckel (C)
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Do you think that is the best offer WSH will get for Backstrom, should he be made available? A 25 year old C with size, better than PPG his entire career? You are dreaming...



I think it would be a tantalising offer, yes - Gardiner is a very young and very talented defenceman, and MacArthur will give you some scoring depth.. But I'll give you another offer instead then . . .

Grabovski, Gardiner to Washington

Backstrom, throw-in pick to Toronto

Tasty enough?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
201 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2013 :  05:53:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, you have to keep in mind that Reilly is probably still 2 maybe 3 seasons away from a permanent spot on the Leafs roster (including this year). assume next year he spends the full year with the Marlies (which i think he should), and then makes the team for the '14/'15 season. at that time Liles will only have 2 years left on his contract at a moderate cap hit of $3.9M/season. so you trade him.
after he's gone Reilly can get his feet wet in the NHL by running the 2nd PP unit. and if he develops into the player we all think he'll be, only then would you have to make a decision between him and Gardiner. and until then i say keep him.

as for the dilemma about which center becomes expendable if a true top line guy is acquired...........to me that's easy. it's Grabovski.
Bozak and Kadri are keepers. both are young, skilled, physical, and can play in the dirty areas on both ends of the ice. Grabovski's pushing 30. he is skilled and i love his effort, but he's too small and is easily moved off the puck. it'll be tough to move him with that contract, but hopefully someone will take him.
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
334 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2013 :  06:19:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With the new season allowing two buy outs who do you think will be the first one gone? i think liles and grabo. Why? i am glad you asked. lol

komi only has one season left what is the point on buying him out now? where as liles is signed for more money for a longer period of time same with grabo. even though grabo did great in the playoffs did he earn his money I say no!

if the leafs are able to trade either of these players then buyout komi but i wouldnt waste the time with these two cap suckers on the roster. what are your opinions??
my vote would be grabo and liles!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2013 :  09:16:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I get why you think Grabo is a candidate, but my question is why Toronto has put themselves in this position? They moved him down from the top 2 lines with the emergence of Kadri on the 2nd line and Bozak on the top line, what kind of production did they expect from him playing along side of Toronto's spare parts. I dont get why they signed the guy then the following year put him in a 3rd line role. Its like Horcoff in Edmonton. The guy has 3-4 decent years and can score, they sign him long term and then demoted him. If you look at his career he had 3 - 20 goal seasons looks to be a career 50-60 point a year player and was on the cusp of being a 30 goal a year player prior to being demoted. I just dont get it as those numbers suggest he is a 5.5 million a year player, but not for 3rd line minutes.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
201 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2013 :  10:32:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

With the new season allowing two buy outs who do you think will be the first one gone? i think liles and grabo. Why? i am glad you asked. lol

komi only has one season left what is the point on buying him out now? where as liles is signed for more money for a longer period of time same with grabo. even though grabo did great in the playoffs did he earn his money I say no!

if the leafs are able to trade either of these players then buyout komi but i wouldnt waste the time with these two cap suckers on the roster. what are your opinions??
my vote would be grabo and liles!



i think you can trade Liles, to be perfectly honest. his cap hit and contract aren't an anchor by any stretch of the imagination, and he still brings value to a club.
i do agree that Grabo should be bought out. as i said earlier, love his effort and his ability to bounce back quickly from a big hit (see the Boston series). but he's too small and is removed from the puck way too easily. not a typical Carlyle player. he'd be picked up by another team, but no one will take his current contract.
and I'd use the other one on Komi for two reasons. 1) even though there is only one year left, it's still a significant hit on a salary cap that's coming down. we can always use the extra space. take it. 2) the Leafs have an opportunity here to let him go and allow him to play in the NHL again as a full-time player. he deserves that. with the last two years spent both as a healthy scratch and down in the minors, he has been nothing but classy about the whole thing. if he becomes a free agent there is no doubt in my mind someone will sign him and he'll be part of their starting 6. give that opportunity to him. it'd be borderline insulting to keep him and stick him in the minors for another season (and a full season at that).
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2013 :  11:06:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Graboski is not putting any points on the board for a 5.5 million dollar player. He would be a good 3rd line center but he is being paid 1st line $$$$., thats the problem.

The leafs should be looking at moving Grab. ......

Leafs have to make a choice...
1.) Kadri plays 1st line center..... Bozak plays 2nd line center......new addition plays 3rd line center......Grab is moved

2. ) Trade for a 1st line center.....Kadri plays 2nd line center.....Bozak plays 3rd line center.....Grab is moved

What do u do with J. Colbourne ? Is he ready ?...if so for what position ?

They also need to move a couple of smaller forwards and bring in more size up front to cycle the puck for longer periods in the opposing zone.

As good as Remier is at times....i`d love to see Luongo in Toronto.
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
334 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2013 :  12:59:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
[bri think you can trade Liles, to be perfectly honest. his cap hit and contract aren't an anchor by any stretch of the imagination, and he still brings value to a club.
i do agree that Grabo should be bought out. as i said earlier, love his effort and his ability to bounce back quickly from a big hit (see the Boston series). but he's too small and is removed from the puck way too easily. not a typical Carlyle player. he'd be picked up by another team, but no one will take his current contract.
and I'd use the other one on Komi for two reasons. 1) even though there is only one year left, it's still a significant hit on a salary cap that's coming down. we can always use the extra space. take it. 2) the Leafs have an opportunity here to let him go and allow him to play in the NHL again as a full-time player. he deserves that. with the last two years spent both as a healthy scratch and down in the minors, he has been nothing but classy about the whole thing. if he becomes a free agent there is no doubt in my mind someone will sign him and he'll be part of their starting 6. give that opportunity to him. it'd be borderline insulting to keep him and stick him in the minors for another season (and a full season at that).



considering how a lot people said it was a gross overpayment for him in the first place. and now he isn't playing with the same level as before he had the contract. i personally have found him to be a very selfish player that rarely passes the puck. 5.5 is to much for him and crlyle obviously doesn't like him very much or else he would have stayed on the second line.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2013 :  12:29:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
mandree, i keep saying to my friends that whatever style of hockey that Grab. is playing, it seems like that no other player knows what he is doing !!!

Its like he shoots when he should pass.....and passes when he should shoot. lol...Hard worker but so unpredictable.
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