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dgg1412
Top Prospect



Canada
29 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2013 :  06:09:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What a lose last night after loseing Spezza for the season you now lose one of the best players in the NHL right now for more than likely the season. I didnt watch the Sens much last night season and didnt think that Karlsson was much more than a purly offencive d-man. But this season he has proved that he is not only one of the best D-men but one of the best players period. For a team that was able to come together to make up for the loss of Spezza to now lose Karlsson is a death sentance.

Edited by - slozo on 02/14/2013 06:28:26

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4508 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2013 :  06:27:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dgg1412

What a lose last night after loseing Spezza for the season you now lose one of the best players in the NHL right now for more than likely the season. I didnt watch the Sens much last night season and didnt think that Karlsson was much more than a purly offencive d-man. But this season he has proved that he is not only one of the best D-men but one of the best players period. For a team that was able to come together to make up for the loss of Spezza to now lose Karlsson is a death sentance.



No breaks this season, apparently.

I would say the season is done now . . . Anderson can't do it alone, and Karlsson was everything for this team. Even if Spezza returns early . . . I just cannot see them staying in the playoff hunt this year.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2013 :  09:42:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gonna be pretty tough for sure, however, even a playoff spot isnt' gonna get them far you'd think. Prob better to play out the string, get a good draft pick and maybe even consider trading Anderson for either picks or prospects or both! Now, some may think this is crazy, but they're apparently really high on Robin Lehner and if he is "the future", why not make the move to him and start somewhat of a rebuild while Karlsson is still young and maybe not even in his prime yet? They have a lot of talent in their system in Zibanajed, Stone, Turris, Silfverberg, Ceci, etc and should maybe consider looking to the future, rather than just "hanging around" the 6-10 seed potential each season?
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2013 :  16:49:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I hate to say I agree with most of the post so far. I dont know if I'd go so far as to trade away Anderson right away. I think Bishop is better trade bait at the moment, while Anderson can keep fans in the seat for the remainder of the season. They have no pressure to succeed so any success they have after this point would be welcome. If they trade away the last remaining exceptional player on the roster they are basically telling the fans they give up.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2013 :  22:21:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
If they trade away the last remaining exceptional player on the roster they are basically telling the fans they give up.



Fair enough, but come the deadline, it may be more of a possibility, especially if a serious contender loses their goalie around that time! Not many teams have backups that they'd be excited about entering the playoffs with!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2013 :  08:07:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anderson will be trade bait for something in return that will help the Senators now or in the future. That mean a prospective team would have to give up a player of equal or greater value to the Senators for this to happen. I dont see the Sens dumping his contract just because the season is done with the other players injured. They still have to keep fans hopes alive.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2013 :  08:36:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Anderson will be trade bait for something in return that will help the Senators now or in the future. That mean a prospective team would have to give up a player of equal or greater value to the Senators for this to happen. I dont see the Sens dumping his contract just because the season is done with the other players injured. They still have to keep fans hopes alive.



Joshua, no where did i imply they'd move him with the intent of ridding themselves of his contract! Heck, i don't even know what he makes. My whole point was that if they have Lehner waiting to take over AND Alfie's on the way out, turning the team over to Karlsson more or less, then why not write off this season, get a good pick, move Anderson for futures, etc and plan on a mini rebuild around Karlsson, Zibanejad, Silfverberg, Stone, Lehner, etc. You'd still have Spezza for a few years to mentor some of these forwards and if Lehner is half the goalie they think he is, they could do worse than have him finish out this season to give him some experience!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2013 :  10:23:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But even if Lehner and Bishop can do an adequate job in the meantime, they are in a good position in there conference and Anderson gives them the best chance to succeed now. Theyhave enough prospects and rookies on the team now or in the system. What Ottawa needs are proven performers, which is what Anderson is and what Ottawa would expect in return. You dont tank a season after 14 games when your in a playoff position your looking to continue the run. That would be telling the fan base they give up now. Your suggesting what Calgary's position is not Ottawa's.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2013 :  10:27:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Anderson will be trade bait for something in return that will help the Senators now or in the future. That mean a prospective team would have to give up a player of equal or greater value to the Senators for this to happen. I dont see the Sens dumping his contract just because the season is done with the other players injured. They still have to keep fans hopes alive.



They also have to think about.... Next year. And the year after that.

Why on earth would OTT start trading away valuable assets, just because a single season appears to be up in smoke? Anderson might be the best bang-for-buck goaltender right now in the NHL, and he's under contract for 2 more years. Lehner is largely unproven, bring him up to backup to Anderson for the next 2 years, see what you have. Just ask EDM how good it is to have a boatload of offense but no proven starting goaltender...

OTT is in great shape, cornerstone pieces locked up for several years, cap room galore next year after Alfie and Gonchar move on, lots of young talent. This year might not pan out for OTT, but the future looks good
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2013 :  10:56:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe it's the fact i'm not sold on Anderson, even after a decent year last year and a hot start this season. He's 31, he's been a career backup aside from one season in Colorado (71 games started), a split season in Col/Ott (just 49 starts between the two) and last year in Ottawa (60 starts). His career numbers are not bad, but nothing exciting. Maybe i'm missing the boat and he's a late bloomer who'll play into his 40's? But maybe he's only got a year or two left before he becomes the "pedestrian" goalie he's been until now. Let's face it, even in those full seasons, his numbers weren't spectacular! I think this 12 game start to the season has made people think he's the next coming of Marty Brodeur or something? Let's look back to just 3 seasons ago when he was the #1 in Colorado and started those 71 games. He wasn't even in the top 3 American goalies in the league, judging by the fact he didn't make the Olympic team for the US!!! Like i said, i could be waaaaay off, but i'm not sold on this guy to begin with.

Now, even if he's much better than i give him credit for, Joshua, do you think for a second that the Sens have a legitimate Cup run in them without Karlsson and possibly without Spezza? I certianly don't! I'm not suggesting they dump him now, though his value couldn't be higher, but at the deadline it's a possibility. It'll be interesting to see what his numbers look like at that point! As far as the youth, what if, instead of picks/prospects, they traded him in a deal for a young current NHLer. I'm not saying they have to get a pick or prospect who won't play for 5 years. They could get a young guy who could come in, produce some and maybe blossom in the next season or two.

My whole point isn't that they need to rebuild like i keep saying Calgary should have started 3 years ago. Considering the injury situation they face, i think they need to give some opportunities to the youth (which they've started to do) and look to a mini rebuild of sorts. My question is this. Will Anderson still be around and playing as he has for this 12 game stint, in 3 years when some of these youngsters have taken over, Karlsson's still in his prime (or maybe not even there yet!) and the Sens are a more serious threat than they are this year. Even with Karlsson, they're barely in a playoff spot today!!!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2013 :  12:17:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Maybe it's the fact i'm not sold on Anderson, even after a decent year last year and a hot start this season. He's 31, he's been a career backup aside from one season in Colorado (71 games started), a split season in Col/Ott (just 49 starts between the two) and last year in Ottawa (60 starts). His career numbers are not bad, but nothing exciting. Maybe i'm missing the boat and he's a late bloomer who'll play into his 40's? But maybe he's only got a year or two left before he becomes the "pedestrian" goalie he's been until now. Let's face it, even in those full seasons, his numbers weren't spectacular! I think this 12 game start to the season has made people think he's the next coming of Marty Brodeur or something? Let's look back to just 3 seasons ago when he was the #1 in Colorado and started those 71 games. He wasn't even in the top 3 American goalies in the league, judging by the fact he didn't make the Olympic team for the US!!! Like i said, i could be waaaaay off, but i'm not sold on this guy to begin with.



I have to disagree... At what point does a goalie lose the "career backup" moniker, and start being judged on his more recent performance? Anderson has now had 3 solid seasons as a starter, and has started his 4th season strong enough that he's being bandied about as a legitimate Vezina candidate. You may not be sold on Anderson, but he's proving you wrong on a nightly basis.

You can wonder all you like about what he may do in 2, 3, 5 years time, but frankly, thats a worry that you could have about any goaltender. Players come and go - for now, he's the real deal, and IMO OTT would be foolish to trade him away at this point, given his relatively short and reasonable contract, and the fact that he's playing the lights out.

As for top-3 US goalies... not being top-3 is hardly a measure of poor performance. The US has a very strong group of goalies right now, and when 2 of your top-3 are Quick and Miller, you'd have to be pretty awesome to be that 3rd. Howard, Anderson, even Schneider would round out my top 5 for the US, and I'd be hard pressed to pick one definitively.

Edited by - nuxfan on 02/16/2013 12:18:31
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2013 :  19:07:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, i'm not saying he's a backup. He's clearly a starter these past few years, but aside from a very small sample of 12 games this season, NO ONE was talking about this guy!!! Last year he started 60 games and had a 2.83GAA. Those aren't bad, but they're far from great numbers!

All i was getting as was that i need to see far more than 12 games to start handing out the Vezina to this guy!
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Guest9053
( )

Posted - 02/18/2013 :  06:25:16  Reply with Quote
The above is the opinion you get when you only look at stats instead of watching the games. A .914 on the Sens is a lot more impressive than a .914 for the Rangers, since the Rangers play a much more defensively focused game.

Post Xmas, he was .928 save percentage in the Sens system. Also happens that for the first 15 games of last season, he let in 49 goals on 418 shots, which is a horrendous 88% save average. The senators were learning a new system and playing like complete (censored); it's not a reflection of his ability.

Similarly, I expect his numbers to drop a ton for this year now that Karlsson is injured. To lose such a good player that was putting in 30 minutes a night will have a huge impact on his stats, particularly since half the team being iced is actually the Binghamton Senators, including so far 4 rookies on defense (Benoit, Borowiecki, Wiercioch, Gryba). He's going to get shelled all year, his numbers will fall dramatically and people will go back to being oblivious to how good he really is.

I saw someone say this on another forum, but the Senators were a tripod this year with Spezza, Karlsson and Anderson. They're down to 1 leg. The others are either too green (half the team), too old (Alfie, Gonchar, Phillips) or not good enough to be much more than a barely adequate supporting cast this year...
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2013 :  10:57:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The worst part about the list of players on Ottawa's roster with experience and not on long term injury, is they have been in and out of the lineup due to the flu or with smaller game to game injuries. Gonchar, Alfredson, Letandresse, Turris and now Michalek have all miss several games this season and have or are playing currently injured. All that and they have a decent record still with the prospects getting the experience needed for a playoff run. Once Spezza is back and possibly a few others recover or returning from injuries, this is close to a playoff team. Much better entrenched if Karlsson wasn't out for the year. Here is an article that pretty much up somes up the situation in Ottawa. They are hoping Chris Phillips and Gonchar can step it up in place of Karlsson, but neither have the smooth skating skills to jump on the rush like Karlsson without becoming a defensive liability.

http://www.silversevensens.com/2013/2/18/3999946/senators-ups-and-downs-week-5

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 02/18/2013 11:11:13
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2013 :  19:27:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, apparently they can't catch a break! Vezina / Hart candidate Craig Anderson left tonights game with what's being reported as a sprained ankle. Could be worse i i guess but man this team is really feeling the bad luck this season!!!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2013 :  08:18:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I dont know if this is a case of seeing the glass half full while I have been viewing my teams glass half empty lately with all the injuries, but with a 4 game winning streak, things dont seem so bad in Ottawa. Karlsson has hit the ice for the first time since surgery, Anderson is only short termed injured, Spezza is due back in close to a month, the B-Sens are improving with added TOI, Alfredson is still playing good hockey and Ottawa is positioned well in the standings with a possible return of all there star players should they be in a playoff position at the end of the regular season. I am not certain if all these injuries have matured the young players on this team and may be a blessing in disguise. Come the playoff's Mclean will certainly know how to use the depth of his roster, as he is getting a lot of practice now. A win against Toronto to cap a week is always a good thing, especially with backups playing frontline in almost every position.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4508 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2013 :  11:14:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Well I dont know if this is a case of seeing the glass half full while I have been viewing my teams glass half empty lately with all the injuries, but with a 4 game winning streak, things dont seem so bad in Ottawa. Karlsson has hit the ice for the first time since surgery, Anderson is only short termed injured, Spezza is due back in close to a month, the B-Sens are improving with added TOI, Alfredson is still playing good hockey and Ottawa is positioned well in the standings with a possible return of all there star players should they be in a playoff position at the end of the regular season. I am not certain if all these injuries have matured the young players on this team and may be a blessing in disguise. Come the playoff's Mclean will certainly know how to use the depth of his roster, as he is getting a lot of practice now. A win against Toronto to cap a week is always a good thing, especially with backups playing frontline in almost every position.



I think it's truly remarkable how Ottawa has managed to keep on winning. I think you're right, in that if they hold on to at least a playoff spot by the time Spezza returns . . . they could still make the playoffs.

I really don't see it, even after this streak they've been on - but they are giving off lots of hope!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2013 :  11:33:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA Karlsson has hit the ice for the first time since surgery


Uhhhhmmm...i think not! Where the H E double hockey sticks did you hear that? I immediately figured it was impossible, so i googled it. The only thing i saw was a headline that said...

"LIVE: Ottawa Senators update Erik Karlsson injury, hit ice for practice"

Now, if this is what you saw, please read it again, paying special attention to that comma!!! I'm no doctor, but there's no way Karlsson is on the ice already!!! He'd be lucky to be back for the semi's if they made it that far!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2013 :  14:29:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I might have misread the comma. Awesome, thought it was a herculian effort for him to be on the ice as well.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2013 :  07:52:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

I might have misread the comma. Awesome, thought it was a herculian effort for him to be on the ice as well.



LOL, i did the same thing when i first googled it. Couldn't believe what i was reading, then said to myself "NO WAY he's skating already" and looked at it again!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  20:35:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been reading a lot of posters talk about Ottawa's eventual fall in the standing. Why do posters here all of a sudden think the Senators are going to start limping down the standings prior to the post season? They are 5-2-3 in there last 10 games with one of the best home record in the league and lead the league in goals against, while low to mid pack in goals for. I dont think credit has been given to the bounce back B-Sens kids and veteran's playing behind the leading Jack Adams candidate. They don't have there top 3 leading scorers from last year, one of which won the Norris trophy, or the goalie most hockey fans have considered as a Vezina candidate and there record has actually improved. Every week or so I hear of another player put onto the IR list and think is this the final straw, but the next game another player steps it up. I don't expect waves in the post season, but I dont believe there is a threat of falling out of the playoff position.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2013 :  21:19:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With teams like Winnipeg and Washington hanging around the playoff race, it's possible that any sort of mini slump could hurt the Sens chances, BUT, with an 8 point lead on the teams chasing the final spot, i really doubt it! That's a lot of ground to gain in not very many games.

They really have surprised me i'll admit. Though i don't see Karlsson returning, it's gonna be interesting to see what they do at the deadline. If Lehner is the future, would they deal Bishop for some asset(s) if Anderson is getting closer to a return??? Basically, will they be buying??? Or will they hold onto what they have, slip into the playoffs and be satisfied with the experience it will give some of the young guys like Turris, Zibanejad, SIlfverberg, etc.?
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2013 :  15:39:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll be honest and say if they can find any type of tough veteran forward with playoff experience or a defenseman of the same, Bishop is the man to be shipped. He has got a tonne of potential, but is 3rd in goaltending depth on a team with a few holes to plug should they try for a round or 2 of playoff hockey. I for one am just happy at this time of the year we are considering Ottawa for playoff contention. I was one who thought the sky was gonna fall with the loss of Spezza, Michaelik and Karlsson, but the B-Sen have made a good transition to the NHL.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4508 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2013 :  04:33:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How IS it that this team is still in the playoffs?!? It's absolutely nuts. They continue to stubbornly hold on to 5th place, while teams like NJ and the Rangers barely hold on to 7th and 8th spots, and while a host of other underachieving teams sit outside the playoffs currently (Carolina, Washington, Philly).

There's a good one . . . if you had said between Philly and Ottawa one team at this point would be in 5th place and one would be in 14th . . . I would have to guess that 100% of people at the beginning of the season would have picked a reverse of the current situation.

And that would have been WITHOUT their massive injuries!!!

Sergei Gonchar leads the team in scoring with 22 pts. That says the whole situation right there.

It's a team held together by glue and tape, with a bunch of young kids in the line-up . . . and yet, they keep beating the teams they have to essentially.

Can this team make the playoffs? Really? It would almost seem to be tough to see them falling out of it at this point . . .



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2013 :  10:48:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/story/?id=419112&hubname=nhl-senators

Well the hope I had that if the Sens caught a break and went a few rounds in the playoffs, Karlsson would return has been answered. He is walking comfortably, which is remarkable considering his injury and having only 5 weeks since the tendon was cut.

An answer to your question Slozo, who would have thought the Senators would be in a playoff position, I held that belief, but like most hockey fans thought they would be fighting for 8th with a more complete roster.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2013 :  21:32:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow! I sure hope this kid isn't rushing or being rushed back!!! This seems like a really quick return from a very serious injury!!!

Feel real good for the Sens, and their fans, though. So great of the young kids and the others there who battled hard to keep the team in the playoff race. Not clinched a spot yet, and have a tough last few games, but they should be able to make it in!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/erik-karlsson-resumes-practising-with-senators/article11427045/
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2013 :  17:51:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Watching Karlsson play tonight. Amazed he is at game shape this early after the injury. Not as Dynamic, as I am use to so far this game, but still earns an assist in his first game back with a period to go.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2013 :  19:11:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And the Sens are in.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2013 :  00:20:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

And the Sens are in.



AND, Karlsson ends up with 2 helpers! Crazy that he's even able to skate!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4508 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2013 :  05:43:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am in a total state of shock and disbelief that Karlsson is back, and that he seems good to go . . . 2 assists, in his first game back from an achilles tendon tear, coming back 3 months early.

It deserves another thread . . . which I am going to get on right now.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest5091
( )

Posted - 04/26/2013 :  09:40:10  Reply with Quote
Karlsson was impressive compared to expectations, considering the surgery and short recovery time. Karlsson sucked compared to old Karlsson though, even with the 2 assists.

While I'm not comparing effectiveness in the following comment, he shifted his style to be more like Lidstrom's as an adjustment instead of relying on his blazing speed. Either way, having him back is a huge boon to the Senators lineup. Hopefully he refinds his wheels because last night he wasn't able to leave people in the dust like he used to, and it showed. That said, 80% Karlsson is still better than the vast majority of other dmen at 100%.
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