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Guest4315
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 Posted - 02/20/2013 : 23:02:23
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Poll Question:
Which Canadian team will win the Stanley Cup next?
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 05:36:44
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This is a tough poll (we seem to have one of these every year, but it's still fun) IF - and it's a big if - you determine that the only true cup contender (Vancouver) will not do it in the next couple of years.
I am of this stance, and I think Vancouver's window is closing, so I don't think it's gonna be them. I am 100% certain Luongo will be traded, and I don't think they can win with Schneider. Their defence isn't what it used to be. The Sedin twins may have just started their decline. Kesler may never be the same player (still to be seen). I see them as a two rounds at most team.
So then after throwing out Calgary - they don't have much young talent and will be blown up this year I predict - you have a bunch of youthful building teams (Ottawa, Toronto, Edmonton) and the middling and probably overachieving Montreal.
The best goalie is Price in Montreal, but they don't have the scoring depth IMHO, and if any injury occurs for Markov (likely) I see this team sinking fast. I don't see a future cup in Montreal with Subban, that is my prediction.
I would have picked Ottawa before the Karlsson injury . . . but I think I have to pass on it now. Too many questions, and Anderson - as hot as he has been - can't play like that all the time. He just can't.
I think it's a toss up between Toronto and Edmonton. Both have potential decent to good future starting goalies (edge to Toronto here); both have decent depth at forward to build around for the future (edge to Edmonton here); both have a decent defence to build around (edge to Toronto here).
I know it's gonna come off like a total homer pick, but . . . with Carlyle and a quick 2 or three year turnaround, my pick is Toronto.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 08:26:05
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Now I'm not saying Montreal is going to win the next cup, what I am going to say however I think Slozo you are selling them way short, way way way short,
if you are going to call the Leafs a young building team how could you not include the habs?
key pieaces on the habs
Subban 23, Eller 23, Pacioretty 24 , Galchenyuk 19 , Gallagher 20, White 24, Diaz 27 (only in his 2nd NHL season) all these guys are established NHLers, and Pacioretty, Subban, Galchenyuk and Gallagher all have huge upside, Not to mention Price 25 who is established and still has big upside.
That is a key young player in every key position already in the NHL makeing an impact,
Yes i will agree the habs still have some bad contracts with ageing players on the books in Cole, Gionta and Kaberle, and they are a problem, one will deffinetly be leaving via compliance buy out and Gionta and Kaberle are both in the last years of their contracts next year so they are tradeable perhaps,
Bourque at 31 is another contract that may hurt the habs.
and the habs going forward with a core group of , Subban Emelin, Diaz, Gorges, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Pacioretty Plekanec, Price, White, is not a bad group to build a team around,
maybe not the next Canadian team to win a cup but with that group the right moves by a GM could make this team a contender by 2014-2015
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 09:31:25
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I dont see Montreal or Toronto as legitimate cup contender's for the next few years. Both teams will have difficulty making the playoffs let alone a strong playoff push. Between the 2 Montreal is more likely due to Price.
Winnipeg is also in tough for even making a playoff position until they have the benifit of realignment. But they have an interesting team once the schedule benefits them travel wise.
Calgary doesnt have all the pieces, but may have the best goalie of the group to win a playoff round or 2, should they figure out how to patch the parts and piece's together long enough for one more playoff push.
Vancouver has all the piece, now, once they find consistant secondary scoring to take the pressure of the first line. They are very deep on defense for the first time in years and if all the parts stay healthy for a playoff push, are likely this years best hope for a Cup by a Canadian team. But I dont see this team being able to retain all the pieces in the next few years and agree the Sedin's have peaked.
Edmonton has potential, not only to make the playoffs but scare a few teams. Goaltending, if Habby can retake the starting goalie position for one more good run, with the Dub starting to become a legitimate goalie, could push this team a few rounds. Too many improving piece's on the frontend and backend to stay out of the playoffs. I see them as legitimate cup contenders in a few years.
Ottawa, as suggested, are missing key players for much more than a mediocre playoff push this year, with the core of the team being youngstars coming in from the minors and scoring being relied upon by aging stars. They are missing too many Key players now, but are still winning games, have great depth in forwards, goalie positions, are developing a good group of defenseman with the injury to Karlsson and with the return of Karlsson, Spezza and Michalek, could be legitamate cup contender in the next few years. Maybe the best chance of being the next canadian team to win the cup. This might be through rose colored glasses, but I do have high hopes for this team. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 13:44:58
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A lot of good points made here about the respective Canadian teams and what they bring to the table so I am going to go at this from a different angle.
Right now the West Coast is the deeper of the two conferences thus the reason we have not seen Vancouver or Calgary break through (even though they have been close) but with the exception of the Blackhawks, Kings & Blues most of the legit contenders now consist of aging teams which is why I think Edmonton has to be the favorite for Canadian Teams to win the next cup only if they talent on paper transfers onto the ice.
Although I think the Leafs & Habs have some legit teams in place as we speak the East contains Teams like the Flyers, Bruins, Lightning, Pens, Rangers, Islanders & Sabres with equally youthful teams, but with more long term upside. That alone is why I think it will be harder for the Leafs, Sens, Habs & Jets to put themselves back into Legit Cup contenders.
Every journey begins with a single step. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 14:29:32
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Slozo....how is it that Toronto, Ottawa and Edmonton are " a bunch of youthful building teams" yet Montreal is "middling and probably overachieving"??? I think most would agree with "overachieving" but why aren't they considered young and "building"? Sure, they've got some old farts, but so does pretty much every team! Look at the list of youngsters, and good ones at that, that Pasty mentioned. Mix in a top young goalie and tell me this team isn't building and capable of challenging for a cup in the next few years? You seem to be basing your opinion on a 34 year old being injured, and a potential star dman who's only 23, albeit with what some say is an attitude problem, not being able to be on a cup winner??? If this team drafts well and signs a FA or two, they could easily be a contender in a few years. Price gives them that chance pretty much every year as we've seen how a hot goalie can carry a team to the finals.
The Flames, i agree, will blow things up soon. Then again, i've predicted that for a couple years now?
If you "would have picked Ottawa before the Karlsson injury", you should still be picking them now, unless you think that Edmonton or TO is gonna win this year? Or, are you predicting him to be a completely different player when he does return? The only other way i read that is that you were picking them to win it this season, which, judging by your preseason ranking of them, which IIRC was missing the playoffs, can't be true?
Toronto is on the right path, however i feel they're a ways away yet. They've got some talent coming up, but with rumours of Kessel possibly being shopped and or being difficult to re-sign, they need more scoring (even with Kadri looking to finally pan out to some degree). This team seems to start well most years, then fall flat on their face. Regardless of how well the two goalies are playing right now, i find it hard to believe that many would believe in them as the future when it was only a couple months ago that TO was supposedly looking very hard for a #1. Personally, i believe they still are and will either get one close to the deadline (depending on their place in the standings) or in the offseason.
I agree that Vancouver's window is closing, though i believe they have a legitimate chance in the next 3 years, especially if they make a few moves. I'd love to know your reason for thinking they can't win with Schneider? Do you mean this season? Or ever? This kid is unproven at this point. His potential really isn't known so imo, it's tough to say he won't be able to carry a team to the cup. Did anyone think Anti Niemi could a few years back? I know this is just your opinion, but who's gonna be the goalie in TO when "your pick" wins the cup?
My pick would be Vancouver, but since 2011, i've felt my favorite team is cursed and will not win in my lifetime. We, as in me and my fellow Canucks fans, will forever be ridiculed as cocky, city burning rioters and just plain poor bandwagonners who root for a team full of cheap players, divers, whiners, embelishers who, along with their fanbase, are extremely arrogant considering they've never won anything.  Oh, did i mention D-Bags? 
Therefore, and yes i've ignored Winnipeg, which is so happy about having a team again they prob don't care all that much at this point about a cup , my pick is Edmonton. They've got a disgustingly good crop of game breaking forwards mixed with a questionable defense and goaltending. I'm not sold on Dubnyk, but if they can find a way to keep all the youngsters together for years to come, they will have picks and prospects available to go out and get a true, proven #1. Though i don't hate the Oilers like i did back in the 80's when it seemed they NEVER lost, i don't exactly love them. However, as a hockey fan, i look forward to seeing this team play a couple years from now! |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 04:55:26
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First off, huge apology to all Jets fans out there - I did totally forget to include Winnipeg, sorry about that.
Winnipeg . . . I would put them above Calgary, below everyone else. Not really in the running, I would say.
About Montreal - I don't eliminate them, I just put them behind Toronto and Edmonton, that's all. And I get that many will disagree and call me a homer on it, and that's fine . . . but giving me the age of your players and telling me they have huge upside when we have already seen their career years is a bit silly, I think. Price's career year (he can only beat it by winning MVP basically - it could happen, but unlikely) got them into the playoffs, barely, and got them a fantastic run in the playoffs. Paccioretty is a decent player, no doubt; So is Plekanec, although I have no love for Subban and think he brings little value other than as a pp specialist.
And I will tell you how Toronto and Edmonton are youthful teams . . . uh . . . THEY ARE YOUNG! d'oh!
Defending Montreal by guessing WHAT THEY COULD ACQUIRE IN THE FUTURE is pointless - every team could do that, including Edmonton and Toronto. It's who you have as young talent or in the farm system as solid blue-chippers that we truly base our opinion on.
I have always said - for the last two years - that Toronto's defence on paper should be top ten and very solid, and Ron Wilson made an ass of those comments. Well, Randy Carlyle is showing them to be true, I think . . . this with Gardiner not returned yet and with a blue-chipper in O'Reilly waiting in the wings. On top of that, the Leafs offense with young studs Frattin and Kadri getting better and better are showing us that maybe Toronto won't have to work so hard to get a player from the outside to be able to really compete (hey, I think we still may be one "difference-maker" away from that myself). And IF Reimer stays healthy . . . he's shown he's as good as any out there, I think.
If you have a different opinion, rank away!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 08:23:23
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I'm not even sure if this reply was pointed at me or Pasty, or perhaps both of us, but a few comments.......
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
About Montreal - I don't eliminate them, I just put them behind Toronto and Edmonton, that's all. And I get that many will disagree and call me a homer on it, and that's fine
I too put them behind Edmonton. Toronto? Well, i didn't do any sort of actual ranking of the poll question, but if i did, the Leafs and Habs would prob be side by side, though i might have Montreal ahead slightly due to Carey Price.
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
. . . but giving me the age of your players and telling me they have huge upside when we have already seen their career years is a bit silly, I think. Price's career year (he can only beat it by winning MVP basically - it could happen, but unlikely) got them into the playoffs, barely, and got them a fantastic run in the playoffs. Paccioretty is a decent player, no doubt; So is Plekanec, although I have no love for Subban and think he brings little value other than as a pp specialist.
Though Pasty mentioned these players' ages and whatnot, i will comment anyway. Regardless of whether or not Price has had his career year, he's still a top goalie in the league. Maybe he never matches his best year to date, but i'd be shocked if anyone didn't think he will be a top goalie for the next 7-10 years! Which other players have we seen career years from of those Pasty mentioned??? You say it's silly to mention these young guy's age when "we have already seen their career years is a bit silly"??? That comment (yours), is the only thing silly. You don't really mean to tell me that you think we've seen the best/career years out of Subban, Eller, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, White and Diaz do you???
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Defending Montreal by guessing WHAT THEY COULD ACQUIRE IN THE FUTURE is pointless - every team could do that, including Edmonton and Toronto. It's who you have as young talent or in the farm system as solid blue-chippers that we truly base our opinion on.
When did you make the rules as to what we base our opinions on ? If i really think that Montreal will find a way to sign Getzlaf and Perry, while trading for Karlsson, Crosby, Malkin and Stamkos, can i not predict they win the next cup for Canada?  All kidding aside....
Again, assuming this was pointed at me, i wasn't defending Montreal by moves they could make. I merely implied that if they were to sign a free agent or two and draft well in the next few years, they could be a contender. I didn't say cup winner, i didn't imply the first Canadian team to win a cup, etc, just simply that they could be a serious contender. Again, just agreeing with Pasty that you are selling them short. They have some older guys than Edmonton and TO, for sure. But as Pasty mentioned, they have the buyouts to use as well as a couple of contracts that expire in a year or two. Both of these situations will allow them to go after FA's. quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I have always said - for the last two years - that Toronto's defence on paper should be top ten and very solid, and Ron Wilson made an ass of those comments. Well, Randy Carlyle is showing them to be true, I think . . . this with Gardiner not returned yet and with a blue-chipper in O'Reilly waiting in the wings. On top of that, the Leafs offense with young studs Frattin and Kadri getting better and better are showing us that maybe Toronto won't have to work so hard to get a player from the outside to be able to really compete (hey, I think we still may be one "difference-maker" away from that myself). And IF Reimer stays healthy . . . he's shown he's as good as any out there, I think.
I agree, the D looks pretty good and i'm big on this Rielly kid (not O'Reilly, unless you think they're getting THAT kid from Colorado??? ). As for the offense, i feel really happy for Kadri that he's finally producing. Maybe Carlyle gets the credit here too? Regardless, kid looks good. I think the jury is still out on Frattin, Bozek, etc though Lupul better be closer to the PPG player we saw last year than the .5 PPG player he's been the rest of his career considering his new contract! As for Reimer, healthy or not, being "as good as any out there" , i'll reserve comment as i think that's very far fetched.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 08:33:52
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fair enough Slozo you aren`t sold on Subban, i get it, Pacioretty 24 years old is a 30, 30 player in his first full season in the NHL, Decent yeah think he would be a top line winger on most teams in the NHL.
then you fail to mention the potential franchise player in Galchenyuk who is on the same pace for points as RNH was last season in his rookie year, as well as Hall, No slight on the Leafs but i don`t feel thay have any forward in their system that have the potential to reach the heights this kids has,
and then their is Gallagher,20 years old he has 5 goals in 11 games this season,
and you don`t think Price has the potential to have a season like lundquvist Quick and Rinne have had in the past years? Goalie usually come together from 25 to 30 and Price is 25 so yess he still has huge upside,
yeah your homer glasses are really selling this team way way way short, yes they have a way to go but if we are talking about the next CDN team to win a cup we are talking about how the team is set up for the future unless you re of the opinion Vancouver just wins it this year or the next, which is possible
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 18:28:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
fair enough Slozo you aren`t sold on Subban, i get it, Pacioretty 24 years old is a 30, 30 player in his first full season in the NHL, Decent yeah think he would be a top line winger on most teams in the NHL.
then you fail to mention the potential franchise player in Galchenyuk who is on the same pace for points as RNH was last season in his rookie year, as well as Hall, No slight on the Leafs but i don`t feel thay have any forward in their system that have the potential to reach the heights this kids has,
and then their is Gallagher,20 years old he has 5 goals in 11 games this season,
and you don`t think Price has the potential to have a season like lundquvist Quick and Rinne have had in the past years? Goalie usually come together from 25 to 30 and Price is 25 so yess he still has huge upside,
yeah your homer glasses are really selling this team way way way short, yes they have a way to go but if we are talking about the next CDN team to win a cup we are talking about how the team is set up for the future unless you re of the opinion Vancouver just wins it this year or the next, which is possible
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Well, if they are so good . . . why can't they beat the Leafs in their own building this year? Hmm?
 COULDN'T RESIST!!! 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest0163
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Posted - 02/24/2013 : 02:11:57
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Slozo, dont mean to make it seem like we are ganging up on your predictions but I'm just curious as to why you dont think the canucks can't win with schnieder but the leafs can with reimee!? To suggest he is as good as any is a bold statement to say the least, and from what ive seen (albiet it hasnt been alot) i dont think
any team would win a cup with riemer tending twine. Just my opinion but i think its a safe one :P |
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Guest4239
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Posted - 02/24/2013 : 06:15:25
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quote:
Well, if they are so good . . . why can't they beat the Leafs in their own building this year? Hmm?
If you're going to play it like that, I have to ask you why the Leafs couldn't beat the Binghamton Senators... |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2013 : 17:29:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4239
quote:
Well, if they are so good . . . why can't they beat the Leafs in their own building this year? Hmm?
If you're going to play it like that, I have to ask you why the Leafs couldn't beat the Binghamton Senators...
But then it wouldn't really be the same thing, dude.
Now if Toronto hosted Ottawa and the Sens beat the Leafers at the ACC both times . . . you might have a point. But that is not the case.
However, when it comes to the Mighty Montreal Canadiens . . . 2 of their 4 losses have come to the Leafs in their own building - one of them a humiliating drubbing on a Saturday night.
I still hear dead silence from the Habs fans on this!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2013 : 19:23:16
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4239
quote:
Well, if they are so good . . . why can't they beat the Leafs in their own building this year? Hmm?
If you're going to play it like that, I have to ask you why the Leafs couldn't beat the Binghamton Senators...
But then it wouldn't really be the same thing, dude.
Now if Toronto hosted Ottawa and the Sens beat the Leafers at the ACC both times . . . you might have a point. But that is not the case.
However, when it comes to the Mighty Montreal Canadiens . . . 2 of their 4 losses have come to the Leafs in their own building - one of them a humiliating drubbing on a Saturday night.
I still hear dead silence from the Habs fans on this!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
bah yep it was a humilating bad loss and an embarrasment. but it may just have been the wake up call they needed see their record since,, i like how they responded, BTW this habs fan hopes the Leafs make the playoffs as well as the habs, i good hard fought 7 games series will give this rivalry some much needed substance!
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2013 : 04:57:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4239
quote:
Well, if they are so good . . . why can't they beat the Leafs in their own building this year? Hmm?
If you're going to play it like that, I have to ask you why the Leafs couldn't beat the Binghamton Senators...
But then it wouldn't really be the same thing, dude.
Now if Toronto hosted Ottawa and the Sens beat the Leafers at the ACC both times . . . you might have a point. But that is not the case.
However, when it comes to the Mighty Montreal Canadiens . . . 2 of their 4 losses have come to the Leafs in their own building - one of them a humiliating drubbing on a Saturday night.
I still hear dead silence from the Habs fans on this!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
bah yep it was a humilating bad loss and an embarrasment. but it may just have been the wake up call they needed see their record since,, i like how they responded, BTW this habs fan hopes the Leafs make the playoffs as well as the habs, i good hard fought 7 games series will give this rivalry some much needed substance!
Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
I totally agree on all counts, Pasty - glad you can take a ribbing. Gotta hand it to you . . . I never in a million years would have guessed that Montreal would be able to shake off that 6-0 loss to the Leafs by beating pretty much everyone else, including many of the top teams. It was impressive (still is as they continue to win).
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4350
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Posted - 02/25/2013 : 07:37:45
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
But then it wouldn't really be the same thing, dude.
Now if Toronto hosted Ottawa and the Sens beat the Leafers at the ACC both times . . . you might have a point. But that is not the case.
However, when it comes to the Mighty Montreal Canadiens . . . 2 of their 4 losses have come to the Leafs in their own building - one of them a humiliating drubbing on a Saturday night.
I still hear dead silence from the Habs fans on this!
C'mon blue coloured glasses. The Leafs played really well against MTL but played like absolute turd against OTT. It talks about consistency. Same with MTL, though they've been extremely consistent after the drubbing from TO.
Somehow, just somehow through blue coloured glasses reasoning this makes TO a better team than MTL and OTT. |
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Guest3817
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Posted - 02/25/2013 : 10:56:14
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quote:
The best goalie is Price in Montreal, but they don't have the scoring depth IMHO, and if any injury occurs for Markov (likely) I see this team sinking fast. I don't see a future cup in Montreal with Subban, that is my prediction.
They don't have the scoring depth? lol
Yea, so far this year, the production has been fairly spread out among the team’s top 9 forwards, making it difficult to assign beyond all doubt a #1, #2 and #3 tag on the Habs lines. The Plekanec/Bourque/Gionta line has combined for 31 points; the Galchenyuk/Cole/Eller line racked up 27 points, while the Desharnais/Pacioretty/Gallagher line managed to accumulate 31 points. This kind of balance and offensive depth is the main reason why the Canadiens are 1st overall in the East close to the mid-point of the shortened season.
I have read this entire thread and I think your Leaf Bias is shining through, a lot..Saying Subban is nothing more then a PP specialist is being blind to the fact that he is a stead on the PK and is our best d-man..Yes, even better than Markov..I would even say Diaz is just as good as Markov...The defense is just fine, considering we have 2 d-man in the top 10 in scoring d-man (Markov/Diaz) Subban soon to hit that mark, Gorges (Top 2 in blocked shots, and Emelin near the top of the league in hits...
This team is for real and to measure them by one or 2 games where the Habs didn't show up (against the Leafs) is just being blind... |
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Posted - 02/25/2013 : 11:17:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest3817
quote:
The best goalie is Price in Montreal, but they don't have the scoring depth IMHO, and if any injury occurs for Markov (likely) I see this team sinking fast. I don't see a future cup in Montreal with Subban, that is my prediction.
They don't have the scoring depth? lol
Yea, so far this year, the production has been fairly spread out among the team’s top 9 forwards, making it difficult to assign beyond all doubt a #1, #2 and #3 tag on the Habs lines. The Plekanec/Bourque/Gionta line has combined for 31 points; the Galchenyuk/Cole/Eller line racked up 27 points, while the Desharnais/Pacioretty/Gallagher line managed to accumulate 31 points. This kind of balance and offensive depth is the main reason why the Canadiens are 1st overall in the East close to the mid-point of the shortened season.
I have read this entire thread and I think your Leaf Bias is shining through, a lot..Saying Subban is nothing more then a PP specialist is being blind to the fact that he is a stead on the PK and is our best d-man..Yes, even better than Markov..I would even say Diaz is just as good as Markov...The defense is just fine, considering we have 2 d-man in the top 10 in scoring d-man (Markov/Diaz) Subban soon to hit that mark, Gorges (Top 2 in blocked shots, and Emelin near the top of the league in hits...
This team is for real and to measure them by one or 2 games where the Habs didn't show up (against the Leafs) is just being blind...
Then call me the Leaf version of Ray Charles, my man. These DEEP BLUE SHADES block out the light coming from your short-lived day in the sun, Hab-not fan!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2013 : 19:56:06
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Well Slozo i think another thing we can agree on is as a habs fan or a Leafs fan we have to be able to take a ribbing every once in a while and we should expect one another to dish out a ribbing at each other,, looking forward to Wensday
Oh and guest looks like the habs can't beat the sens either! Benny Bishop was awsome tonight!
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Guest4350
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Posted - 02/26/2013 : 06:31:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
Well Slozo i think another thing we can agree on is as a habs fan or a Leafs fan we have to be able to take a ribbing every once in a while and we should expect one another to dish out a ribbing at each other,, looking forward to Wensday
Oh and guest looks like the habs can't beat the sens either! Benny Bishop was awsome tonight!
Lost in a shootout and they played well as opposed to the leafs vs Ott. But Bishop was a beast.
Paul MacLean should win coach of the year award. The system he put in place is ridiculous. |
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Which Canadian team.. 
