Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
 All Forums
 Hockey Forums
Allow Anonymous Posting forum... General Hockey Chat
 HHOF class of 2013 Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
429 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2013 :  09:38:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I consider Chelios, Shanahan, and Niedermayer to be sure things so I am more interested in what the rest of you feel are the prospects for some of the others this year. Namely the following:

Rob Blake

Eric Lindros

Jeremy Roenick

Dave Andreychuk

Rod Brind'Amour

Alexander Mogilny

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"

Edited by - umteman on 07/09/2013 09:41:16

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1903 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2013 :  10:50:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good case can be made for all of those people to be in the HHOF.

Rob Blake, crushing checks, has the stats, cup and was considered to be an impact player his whole career. Triple gold winner, stanely cup/Olympic Gold/World Cup Gold, Norris trophy. 1277 game for 777 points

Eric Lindros, for a time considered the best player playing, Hart winner, Olympic Gold, all time leader in points WJC. Great faceoff man, had individual seasons where he led the league in scoring. I think he should be in, but between his trades injuries and shortened career might be the last one of this group in. 760 game for 865 points

Jeremy Roenick, most controversial of the bunch, but has great career stats and considered an impact player his whole career on and off the ice. No cup win but lots of playoff experience. 1363 games for 1216 points

Dave Anderychuck, good career stats, couple of cup runs with a few teams, captained Tampa to a cup win in the twilight of his career. 1639 games 1338 points. All time NHL leader in power play goal 274, 14 in all time goals list, 28th in all time points list

Rod Brind'Amour, one of the best face off men, with great career stats, very durable, couple of cup runs with a few teams, captained the Hurricanes to the stanley cup win. 1484 games 1184 points

Alexander Mogilny, had an injury shortened career, but what a career. He was a triple gold winner Stanley Cup/World Champion Gold/Olympic Gold + WJC gold, 50 goals in 46 games, led the league in goals 76 in 77 games and game winning goals 11 in 1992, 1st Russian to defect, tied with Selanne as the 1st, 2 non North American to lead the league in scoring in 1992. 990 games for 1032 points.

In some instances these guys belong in there before the others considered a lock.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

Guest2331
( )

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  08:15:12  Reply with Quote
How is Roenick more controversial than Lindros?
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1903 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  08:22:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2331

How is Roenick more controversial than Lindros?

Have you heard an controversy from Lindros since his retirement outside of HOF chatter. Roenick is still making headlines with comments. Plus he is the only player of the group without a Gold medal or Cup win, although great stats, does not lead or in the top 10-20 of any category not related to American stats. Not saying he doesn't belong in HOF chatter, because if I was to build my American all time dream team, Roenick would get the call.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 07/11/2013 08:25:48
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4601 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  11:42:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I consider Shanahan very marginal, myself. Chelios is in, but barely, in my mind. Niedermayer is a lock, yes.

I think Lindros should have gone in. The top player in all of hockey for two and a half years, and he's got an MVP. Short body of work, but enough t get in for sure easily IMHO due to him being the absolute best in the game for that couple of years.

Mogilny would be a borderline vote . . . where I would do extensive research, etc, to substantiate my vote. But I think he'd get in, coupled with his international resume.

...the rest would not get my vote.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  12:13:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
...the rest would not get my vote.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Andreychuk is a tough one! His numbers scream HOF! However, he's often considered a PP specialist and many think this hurts him in that his numbers are inflated due to the PP time? He is actually the all time league leader in PP goals! BUT, WHO CARES? Last i checked, a PP goal is worth EXACTLY the same as a regular goal, 1! His numbers don't match Shanny's but they're not far off. I think part of his problem was that he always seemed to play in the shadow of others around him. Laftontain and Hawerchuk in Buffalo and Gilmour in Toronto come to mind. Also, his numbers slid in the last 8 or so years of his career and maybe he held on too long? However, after winning a cup late in his career with TB, he'd prob argue that point.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1903 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  13:28:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by slozo
...the rest would not get my vote.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Andreychuk is a tough one! His numbers scream HOF! However, he's often considered a PP specialist and many think this hurts him in that his numbers are inflated due to the PP time? He is actually the all time league leader in PP goals! BUT, WHO CARES? Last i checked, a PP goal is worth EXACTLY the same as a regular goal, 1! His numbers don't match Shanny's but they're not far off. I think part of his problem was that he always seemed to play in the shadow of others around him. Laftontain and Hawerchuk in Buffalo and Gilmour in Toronto come to mind. Also, his numbers slid in the last 8 or so years of his career and maybe he held on too long? However, after winning a cup late in his career with TB, he'd prob argue that point.

Had he retired 3-4 years earlier when his stats were better at ppg, he might have been better fit for the HOF, but like others not in, would be in the 2nd class status with no cup wins. Big guy very durable, hope he eventually gets in.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  14:40:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA Had he retired 3-4 years earlier when his stats were better at ppg, he might have been better fit for the HOF, but like others not in, would be in the 2nd class status with no cup wins. Big guy very durable, hope he eventually gets in.




Not only have you forgotten him captaining (is that a word?) the Lightning to a championship, you didn't read my entire post!!! How dare you!
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  15:06:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chelios was a top dman in the NHL for two decades with Cups and Norris trophies. How can you not vote him in? Shanahan too. Cups and one of only 18 players with more than 600 goals. Neidermayer is also an easy choice.

Liners getting shunned again is get ting pathetic. He was the most dominant player in the 90's and revolutionized the position of a power forward. Much like Bossy or Orr, the body of work was short but very impressive. They can't keep him out for much longer.

The rest on the list are arguable. I loved Mogilny as a player and his performance was quite staggering. Only 8 guys have scored 70 goals in a season and he's one of them. But no Cups hurts most players chances of getting in the Hall.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
429 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  15:39:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
originally posted by slozo

"Mogilny would be a borderline vote . . . where I would do extensive research, etc, to substantiate my vote. But I think he'd get in, coupled with his international resume."

I put Mogilny on this list largely because of the induction of Pavel Bure who likewise had an impressive, but injury shortened career. How do you think the two compare?

originally posted by Beans15

"Chelios was a top dman in the NHL for two decades..."

lol, when the selections were anounced Niedermayer joked that "I was part of an era. Chris was part of several."

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"

Edited by - umteman on 07/11/2013 17:20:04
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1903 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  17:32:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA Had he retired 3-4 years earlier when his stats were better at ppg, he might have been better fit for the HOF, but like others not in, would be in the 2nd class status with no cup wins. Big guy very durable, hope he eventually gets in.




Not only have you forgotten him captaining (is that a word?) the Lightning to a championship, you didn't read my entire post!!! How dare you!


Lol, if you look all the way to the 2nd post you'll see I posted he was the captain first. You owe me a beer.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  01:08:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA Had he retired 3-4 years earlier when his stats were better at ppg, he might have been better fit for the HOF, but like others not in, would be in the 2nd class status with no cup wins. Big guy very durable, hope he eventually gets in.




Not only have you forgotten him captaining (is that a word?) the Lightning to a championship, you didn't read my entire post!!! How dare you!


Lol, if you look all the way to the 2nd post you'll see I posted he was the captain first. You owe me a beer.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



Fair enough, but in your other post it seems you insinuate that he didn't win a cup? Maybe we owe each other a cold one???
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4601 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  04:40:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Personally,

I am not a fan of putting guys like Shanahan and Andreychuk in the Hall of Fame. To me, it cheapens it . . . they were never really even top 5 in their position at any given year, let's put it that way? They were both very solid, very good players; they both had their 'specialties'; they both had productive, long careers.

But they were never GREAT. Not even for one year.

As pointed out with Andreychuk . . . if you were never even the best player on your team for your entire career, how can you be inducted into the HOF?

This is why a guy like Lindros, to my mind, HAS to go in .. . he was the best in the world for two years, no one can argue it otherwise.

After a close look . . . I put Mogilny in, on the strength of his international record and play to put him over the top. But he had a similar problem . . . never top 5 in his position, but to his defence, the names at that time around and above the leaderboard are a who's who of the HOF.

Roenick - no way. Just because your stats were inflated by the early 90s, doesn't mean you should make it in. Sorry bub, but you're a shoe-in for the AMERICAN HOF.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  06:25:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you look at Shanahan and Chelios, both have multiple Cups, both named to the All NHL first team multiple times, both have individual NHL records.

What else does a guy have to do?

Shanahan specificially has

- 3 Cups
- 2-1st All Star selections and 1-2nd team selection
- one of 13 players with more than 600 goals
- only guy in history with 600 goals and 2000 PIM
- International success with Olympic, World Champ, and Canada Cup golds
- multiple 50, 40, and 30 goal seasons


How is that not HOF?

I won't go as deep into Chelios but look at his time as a Blackhawks alone. In 9 seasons he averaged 74 games played and 54 pts. Those 9 seasons included 2+70 pts, 2+60 pts, and another +50. That stretch also included a 48 game lock out year with 38 pts extrapolated to - 67 pt full season.


It's pretty easy to argue that those two guys were in the top 5 in their positions during their careers. How is at not HOF?

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1903 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  14:39:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Personally,

I am not a fan of putting guys like Shanahan and Andreychuk in the Hall of Fame. To me, it cheapens it . . . they were never really even top 5 in their position at any given year, let's put it that way? They were both very solid, very good players; they both had their 'specialties'; they both had productive, long careers.

I would say the guy with the Most Power Play Goals all time for his career should be considered, over the course of his career that was his trade mark. His career points 28th all time, goals 14th all time. How many others above him in the HOF already? How many below him?

But they were never GREAT. Not even for one year.

As pointed out with Andreychuk . . . if you were never even the best player on your team for your entire career, how can you be inducted into the HOF?

This is why a guy like Lindros, to my mind, HAS to go in .. . he was the best in the world for two years, no one can argue it otherwise.

After a close look . . . I put Mogilny in, on the strength of his international record and play to put him over the top. But he had a similar problem . . . never top 5 in his position, but to his defence, the names at that time around and above the leaderboard are a who's who of the HOF.

I might be making this up in my own mind, but I remember Mogilny being a top 5 player at points in his career. Especially the year of 50 goals in 46 games where he and Selanne were the top 2 scoring forwards.

Roenick - no way. Just because your stats were inflated by the early 90s, doesn't mean you should make it in. Sorry bub, but you're a shoe-in for the AMERICAN HOF.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1903 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  14:42:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

If you look at Shanahan and Chelios, both have multiple Cups, both named to the All NHL first team multiple times, both have individual NHL records.

What else does a guy have to do?

Shanahan specificially has

- 3 Cups
- 2-1st All Star selections and 1-2nd team selection
- one of 13 players with more than 600 goals
- only guy in history with 600 goals and 2000 PIM
- International success with Olympic, World Champ, and Canada Cup golds
- multiple 50, 40, and 30 goal seasons


How is that not HOF?

I won't go as deep into Chelios but look at his time as a Blackhawks alone. In 9 seasons he averaged 74 games played and 54 pts. Those 9 seasons included 2+70 pts, 2+60 pts, and another +50. That stretch also included a 48 game lock out year with 38 pts extrapolated to - 67 pt full season.


It's pretty easy to argue that those two guys were in the top 5 in their positions during their careers. How is at not HOF?

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





I agree, but given the others waiting to get into the HOF, did they deserve to be locks above the others.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1903 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  14:47:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA Had he retired 3-4 years earlier when his stats were better at ppg, he might have been better fit for the HOF, but like others not in, would be in the 2nd class status with no cup wins. Big guy very durable, hope he eventually gets in.




Not only have you forgotten him captaining (is that a word?) the Lightning to a championship, you didn't read my entire post!!! How dare you!


Lol, if you look all the way to the 2nd post you'll see I posted he was the captain first. You owe me a beer.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



Fair enough, but in your other post it seems you insinuate that he didn't win a cup? Maybe we owe each other a cold one???



If ever at all possible, I would definitely buy you a beer, but if you look at that post I referred to if he retired 3-4 years earlier, he would have had better HOF stats, but no cup win as captain Still thinking your due to buy the 1st round.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  14:59:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
If ever at all possible, I would definitely buy you a beer, but if you look at that post I referred to if he retired 3-4 years earlier, he would have had better HOF stats, but no cup win as captain Still thinking your due to buy the 1st round.




You win.....though it's a bit of a confusing read, i see where you were going with it now! First round's on me!
Go to Top of Page

umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
429 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2013 :  12:53:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am surprised that only one of you had a comment on Rob Blake. I put him at the top of the list as I considered him to be the next most likely to be inducted this year. No one else thought so?

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
Go to Top of Page

OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2013 :  14:12:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

If you look at Shanahan and Chelios, both have multiple Cups, both named to the All NHL first team multiple times, both have individual NHL records.

What else does a guy have to do?

Shanahan specificially has

- 3 Cups
- 2-1st All Star selections and 1-2nd team selection
- one of 13 players with more than 600 goals
- only guy in history with 600 goals and 2000 PIM
- International success with Olympic, World Champ, and Canada Cup golds
- multiple 50, 40, and 30 goal seasons


How is that not HOF?

I won't go as deep into Chelios but look at his time as a Blackhawks alone. In 9 seasons he averaged 74 games played and 54 pts. Those 9 seasons included 2+70 pts, 2+60 pts, and another +50. That stretch also included a 48 game lock out year with 38 pts extrapolated to - 67 pt full season.


It's pretty easy to argue that those two guys were in the top 5 in their positions during their careers. How is at not HOF?

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





Never mind that. Shanny could potentially be inducted as a builder, too, for his work after his playing career ended. Like it or not, he has had an awful lot of influence in the way the NHL is run since retirement. Shoo-in.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2013 :  14:18:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by umteman

I am surprised that only one of you had a comment on Rob Blake. I put him at the top of the list as I considered him to be the next most likely to be inducted this year. No one else thought so?

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"




I really liked Blake and he was a fantastic hockey player. I can't think of a reason why he shouldn't be in the Hall. He's got everything I look for and more. If there is a reason he isn't there is that he wasn't the flashiest guy out there.

Too often the pedestrian guys get left out. He's got fantastic numbers, has won everything he could have won, and was an all star for years and years. He should be there.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4601 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  06:19:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by umteman

I am surprised that only one of you had a comment on Rob Blake. I put him at the top of the list as I considered him to be the next most likely to be inducted this year. No one else thought so?

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"




I really liked Blake and he was a fantastic hockey player. I can't think of a reason why he shouldn't be in the Hall. He's got everything I look for and more. If there is a reason he isn't there is that he wasn't the flashiest guy out there.

Too often the pedestrian guys get left out. He's got fantastic numbers, has won everything he could have won, and was an all star for years and years. He should be there.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





Then you are also arguing for the Hall of FAME to be the Hall of Very Good Numbers.

Which, to some degree, it already is . . . and with all the early 90s stars nowing getting their number called up, it'll be further dilluted, for sure. The increase in scoring and production puts them all out of context, as opposed to comparing them to their fellow stars and fellow very good players, and seeing if they were ever top 3, maybe top 5 in those years when Gretzky and Lemieux and Jagr were taking every single award.

I just think it cheapens the hall of fame, that's all.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  07:22:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by umteman

I am surprised that only one of you had a comment on Rob Blake. I put him at the top of the list as I considered him to be the next most likely to be inducted this year. No one else thought so?

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"




I really liked Blake and he was a fantastic hockey player. I can't think of a reason why he shouldn't be in the Hall. He's got everything I look for and more. If there is a reason he isn't there is that he wasn't the flashiest guy out there.

Too often the pedestrian guys get left out. He's got fantastic numbers, has won everything he could have won, and was an all star for years and years. He should be there.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





Then you are also arguing for the Hall of FAME to be the Hall of Very Good Numbers.

Which, to some degree, it already is . . . and with all the early 90s stars nowing getting their number called up, it'll be further dilluted, for sure. The increase in scoring and production puts them all out of context, as opposed to comparing them to their fellow stars and fellow very good players, and seeing if they were ever top 3, maybe top 5 in those years when Gretzky and Lemieux and Jagr were taking every single award.

I just think it cheapens the hall of fame, that's all.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug




I think the numbers are part of it but not all of it. He has Cups, he has won the Norris, he has many international medals. The numbers are also there.

By the way, Blake also played his way through the 'dead puck' era and was still a consistent 40-50 pt defensemen. Let's not forget, Blake was more well known as a stay at home/shutdown defensemen. Not many shutdown guys have nearly 800 NHL points.

It's cheapens nothing. To disregard the measurement of a players success would cheapen the Hall and make it completely subjective.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4601 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  08:42:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by umteman

I am surprised that only one of you had a comment on Rob Blake. I put him at the top of the list as I considered him to be the next most likely to be inducted this year. No one else thought so?

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"




I really liked Blake and he was a fantastic hockey player. I can't think of a reason why he shouldn't be in the Hall. He's got everything I look for and more. If there is a reason he isn't there is that he wasn't the flashiest guy out there.

Too often the pedestrian guys get left out. He's got fantastic numbers, has won everything he could have won, and was an all star for years and years. He should be there.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





Then you are also arguing for the Hall of FAME to be the Hall of Very Good Numbers.

Which, to some degree, it already is . . . and with all the early 90s stars nowing getting their number called up, it'll be further dilluted, for sure. The increase in scoring and production puts them all out of context, as opposed to comparing them to their fellow stars and fellow very good players, and seeing if they were ever top 3, maybe top 5 in those years when Gretzky and Lemieux and Jagr were taking every single award.

I just think it cheapens the hall of fame, that's all.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug




I think the numbers are part of it but not all of it. He has Cups, he has won the Norris, he has many international medals. The numbers are also there.

By the way, Blake also played his way through the 'dead puck' era and was still a consistent 40-50 pt defensemen. Let's not forget, Blake was more well known as a stay at home/shutdown defensemen. Not many shutdown guys have nearly 800 NHL points.

It's cheapens nothing. To disregard the measurement of a players success would cheapen the Hall and make it completely subjective.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





Hmm. I had forgotten Blake won the Norris. And looking back on his numbers . . . he has impressive stats in the dead puck era, AND he has the Olympic gold and WC gold medals to boot, an integral part of each of those teams.

Fair enough, I didn't do the research on him, relying on memory.

He gets in the HOF for me.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  09:11:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When looking at "numbers" and the hall, i always look back to Rod Langway. I wonder if today, a guy played like he did, for as long as he did, would he even get consideration for the hall? Langway is in and while he did win 2 Norris Trophy's, he had just one season where he scored over 40pts. His first Norris year, he scored just 3 goals all year!!! 3!!! I just don't see anyone getting in today with those kinds of numbers and when you consider Blake's offense and defense, he's in in my book!

Have a look at Langway's numbers when you have a sec and marvel at the fact he was THAT good defensively! He had just one season in double digits for goals and only scored 51 in almost 1000 games! I really think the NHL needs an award today for guys who play this style of defensive game! Heck, even name it the Rod Langway award!
Go to Top of Page

umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
429 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  10:18:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

When looking at "numbers" and the hall, i always look back to Rod Langway. I wonder if today, a guy played like he did, for as long as he did, would he even get consideration for the hall? Langway is in and while he did win 2 Norris Trophy's, he had just one season where he scored over 40pts. His first Norris year, he scored just 3 goals all year!!! 3!!! I just don't see anyone getting in today with those kinds of numbers and when you consider Blake's offense and defense, he's in in my book!

Have a look at Langway's numbers when you have a sec and marvel at the fact he was THAT good defensively! He had just one season in double digits for goals and only scored 51 in almost 1000 games! I really think the NHL needs an award today for guys who play this style of defensive game! Heck, even name it the Rod Langway award!



I consider Blake a hall of famer just for his defensive play, never mind the 40-50 point seasons. Some guys are not looked to for point production first - after all a defense man is exactlly that: a defense man. And a dman who played great D year after year for a career should be considered just as worthy as a forward who filled the net with pucks year after year for a career.

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  11:07:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

When looking at "numbers" and the hall, i always look back to Rod Langway. I wonder if today, a guy played like he did, for as long as he did, would he even get consideration for the hall? Langway is in and while he did win 2 Norris Trophy's, he had just one season where he scored over 40pts. His first Norris year, he scored just 3 goals all year!!! 3!!! I just don't see anyone getting in today with those kinds of numbers and when you consider Blake's offense and defense, he's in in my book!

Have a look at Langway's numbers when you have a sec and marvel at the fact he was THAT good defensively! He had just one season in double digits for goals and only scored 51 in almost 1000 games! I really think the NHL needs an award today for guys who play this style of defensive game! Heck, even name it the Rod Langway award!



I've got no beef with Rod Langway being in the Hall of Fame and I completely agree that numbers are not the only indicating factor. The man was a 1st team all start twice, a 2nd team all-star once, a two time Norris winner, and won a Cup or two with Montreal. He earned his stripes.

That said, one might also want to look at the other players that were going into the Hall that year and around the same time. Langway's induction year included Bernie Federko and Clarke Gillis. Federko does have 1130 NHL points but to Slozo's point of never being a top player in the league, Bernie was only on the voted All Star team twice, no Cups, no individual awards, and no international accolades. He has a number of STL records but nothing league wide. I don't put him in the Hall today. I don't think I need to say much about Clarke Gillis other than if he belongs in the Hall for being the Islanders bodyguard than Dave Semenko should be in too! Granted Gillis was a far better offensive player than Semenko but let's call a spade a spade. IF Lindros can't get in how the heck is Clarke Gillis there???


Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Jump To:
Snitz Forums 2000 Go To Top Of Page