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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
 Posted - 10/11/2007 : 09:29:50
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http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/mckenzie/?id=220367 Bob Mckenzie thinks it should be simple. The offence was worse then that of Steve Downie according to him. Im still undecided but definitly think Boulerice will recieve a hefty suspension by the NHL.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 10:03:41
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http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=271010022
Another head shot, when will the players ever learn, it looks like he wanted a fight.
He could have hit him with a shoulder, and been in the box for 2 min for interference, now I will say 20 games for a head shot, seems to be the going rate...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 11:47:14
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If Boulerice doesn't get AT LEAST 20 games it'll be a joke.
1) Kesler wasn't anywhere near the puck.
2) 7-2 Philly, late in the game
3) Stick to the face of an unsuspecting player
4) There was a running "battle" before the incident.
Thankfully, Kesler wasn't badly injured.
If Downie got 20 games, this should be at least 30. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 12:02:44
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| By even today's standards, this one is going to be a long one. You can't even argue that the head contact was incidental/accidental (like you can with Downie's) Since the Downie incident is so fresh and people will easily compare the two (although this one is far worse) he will go away for a long time. My prediction is that he is getting 25+. Like I said in previous posts, Colin Campbell is licking his chops because this is another "nobody" who he can penalize for an extended period of time WITHOUT affecting the NHL product. Another gift wrapped present for him. |
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nux_fan
Top Prospect
10 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 15:00:00
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| Let's hope it's a doosey! :) |
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Guest8815
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Posted - 10/11/2007 : 15:18:10
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| got a link? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 18:31:30
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I personally think that a strike using the stick as a weopon with intent to injury, just like this situation, should be subject to much higher suspensions then questionable hits. A check is still part of the game, hitting a guy in the face/head with a stick is not part of the game at all.
I agree this should be more than Downie.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 20:16:16
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Can someone please post a link? I want to see it then post my opinion.
No Sacrifice , No Victory! |
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Guest4024
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Posted - 10/11/2007 : 20:22:33
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| i predict 41 games. the league it going to mak these consequences more and more ludacrous just to teahc these players something. if he gives him 41 games you wont see much of these stick infractions happening. |
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
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Guest4794
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Posted - 10/11/2007 : 22:40:14
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hey guys, your old buddy I hate crosby chiming in here....I forgot my password!
41 games?!!!!
Settle down.....Now-a-days, suspensions are getting way out of hand! ya it was a bit of a nasty shot...But this wasn't Burtuzzi or McSorley...I mean, Kessler(The lamest nuck of all) was running right at Boulerice when it all went down....What would YOU do if a guy came lunging at you? I wouldn't know! I'd just respond...This wasn't premeditated or anything...it was purley reaction..Probably not the best reaction...But certainly it doesn't warrant this guy being suspended til doomsday....
I heard Gord Stellic say "assult with a deadly weapon"...He oughtta leave his purse at the door...If that was the case, Goalies would be suing every player who shot a puck at them.
Let' settle down here folks, ya it was nasty...But it wasn't NASTY.
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Guest7063
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Posted - 10/12/2007 : 05:47:56
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| What do you mean "But this wasn't Burtuzzi or McSorley"? It was far more black and white, premeditated, and involved deliberately using a stick as a weapon. I think Bertuzzi is a punk, but he threw a GLOVED punch... the effects of his actions were much more severe than the action itself. And McSorely was plain unlucky. He hit Brashear on the shoulder pad with his stick, it bounced and hit brashear in the head, and when brashear fell, he hit his head on the ice causing most of the damage. This action was MUCH worse (even though the effects weren't) |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2007 : 06:26:42
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Although it is probably unfair, I don't think he'll get as much as Downie, because Kesler doesn't seem to be as seriously injured. If he had been cut, or had to spend the night in hospital, for example, the suspension would be longer. I mean, he didn't even get an x-ray or anything.
Do I agree with this logic? Not really, no, but I bet that's how the NHL will see it. We'll see, maybe they'll surprise me with a 20 gamer. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2007 : 07:06:03
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I predict they will surprise you, flyguy-san. My guess is that he'll get either 25 or 30 games. They know they are boxed a little bit by the Downie ruling, probably hear the arguments of people like Bob M. on TV, and as Leigh says, the guy is a relative nobody so Campbell has one less big thing to worry about in assessing this suspension.
Looking at it in a little more positive light, I'd like to think they are also starting to get the error in logic in assessing the penalty based on the injury to the victim. Hopeully they are starting to see that these things have to be assessed based on the action.
As for IHC'c comment, I'll just say that I think this was "nasty" enough to warrant at least a 25 game suspension. When things hit the NASTY level which I guess IHC is thinking about, probably the suspensions should be at least 40 games or more. That may seem "way out of hand" as IHC says, but if you think about the big picture (guys potentially getting very very seriously hurt or worse due to actions that clearly can be controlled by the offender), 25 games, or even 40 games or more, is really relatively light in a way, and such suspensions, in fact, already take into account the arguments that "this is hockey", "it's a dangerous game" etc. These are all valid arguments but, in my opinion, they should only work to reduce penalties in these type of suspensions from year or two year or life suspensions to so-called "harsh" suspensions, like a 25 gamer in this situation. |
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Guest7208
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Posted - 10/12/2007 : 07:21:01
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| maybe a cheap hit...but i looked at the replays for the whole game on tsn...they kept saying that Flyers were after the Canucks...thats bullsh*t.... the Canucks were after the Flyers... Kessler was lookin for it...slashed players all game long...im glad he got what he deserved....if he cant back it up...hit the bench or the showers...were finally staring to have some decent hockey back.... i was tired of seeing that not hitting and fighting game.... they were all; playing like europeans.... its a north american game...play it that way...or go play basketball and look like f*gs with the slap fights they have and crying every time they fall... if the Kessler incident would have happened in the minors...he would have gotten up not lied there like a p*ssy cause he knew he would have been wtached by scouts...well do the same in the NHL...get the f*** up |
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2007 : 08:55:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7208
maybe a cheap hit...but i looked at the replays for the whole game on tsn...they kept saying that Flyers were after the Canucks...thats bullsh*t.... the Canucks were after the Flyers... Kessler was lookin for it...slashed players all game long...im glad he got what he deserved....if he cant back it up...hit the bench or the showers...were finally staring to have some decent hockey back.... i was tired of seeing that not hitting and fighting game.... they were all; playing like europeans.... its a north american game...play it that way...or go play basketball and look like f*gs with the slap fights they have and crying every time they fall... if the Kessler incident would have happened in the minors...he would have gotten up not lied there like a p*ssy cause he knew he would have been wtached by scouts...well do the same in the NHL...get the f*** up
Hitting and fighting has every right to be in the game. Cracking somedbody in the head with your stick does not. There is no way that what Boulerice (or others) have done in that vein can be condoned as part of hockey. Thankfully, KEsler wasn't badly injured. However, the attack was clearly though out, blindsided Kesler, and was outside the realm of both the play on the ice and "hockey play" in general.
As far as if this had happened in the minors, to say that Kesler would have gotten up is foolish. Besides, this did happen in the minors. Boulerice took a two-handed swing at Andrew Long in a playoff game
" In 1998, Long scored 29 goals and recorded 69 points in 62 games with the Guelph Storm. He was in an OHL playoff game against the Plymouth Whalers when Boulerice viciously slashed him in the face. Long was knocked unconscious, suffered a seizure, a Grade 3 concussion, a brain contusion, multiple facial fractures and two black eyes. He needed 20 stitches, had a crushed nasal cavity and was left with a blood spot on his brain.
"I almost died," Long said. "It was within a couple of inches either way of happening. If I would have seen him, my natural reaction would have been to tip my head back, and if I did that and he hit me in the neck, I would have been dead on impact. If it was two inches higher and I died, what would he have got then?"
Boulerice was suspended for a year by the OHL, but he played the following season in the American Hockey League after sitting out 15 games. Boulerice was charged with assault to do great bodily harm less than murder. He later pleaded no contest to a reduced charge of aggravated assault."
I realize that strictly speaking any junior incidents don't count for the NHL. Still, Boulerice has shown to lack proper judgement before. As I said before, if Boulerice doesn't get more that Downie the NHL's crackdown on hit's to the head can be considered a joke. |
Edited by - spade632 on 10/12/2007 08:56:29 |
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Guest4802
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Posted - 10/12/2007 : 09:50:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7208
maybe a cheap hit...but i looked at the replays for the whole game on tsn...they kept saying that Flyers were after the Canucks...thats bullsh*t.... the Canucks were after the Flyers... Kessler was lookin for it...slashed players all game long...im glad he got what he deserved....if he cant back it up...hit the bench or the showers...were finally staring to have some decent hockey back.... i was tired of seeing that not hitting and fighting game.... they were all; playing like europeans.... its a north american game...play it that way...or go play basketball and look like f*gs with the slap fights they have and crying every time they fall... if the Kessler incident would have happened in the minors...he would have gotten up not lied there like a p*ssy cause he knew he would have been wtached by scouts...well do the same in the NHL...get the f*** up
I am all for a physical game...I enjoy big hits and fights as much as anyone but a stick is still a weapon when used in such a manner. Boulerice had full control of his stick and attacked Kesler when he was already focused on the puck which had moved up ice. As far as I am concerned this is as bad as a baseball player taking the bat to the pitcher because he got hit by a wild pitch. In either case it is an attack with a weapon. |
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2007 : 15:10:51
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Boulerice got 25 games - thoughts?
http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=220462&hubname=
National Hockey League disciplinarian Colin Campbell has handed Flyers forward Jesse Boulerice a 25-game suspension for cross-checking Vancouver Canucks centre Ryan Kesler in the head Wednesday night.
It's the longest suspension handed out in NHL history for an on-ice incident. New York Islanders forward Chris Simon also got 25 games for his two-handed slash to the face of Ryan Hollweg of the New York Rangers last season.
''This was more than a careless and reckless play - it was senseless,'' Campbell said in a release. ''This was a deliberate cross-check to the face where Jesse Boulerice broke the shaft of his stick on Ryan Kesler's jaw. Boulerice went out of his way to deliver the cross-check and we will not tolerate this kind of conduct.''
The punishment comes exactly two weeks after the league handed Flyers forward Steve Downie a 20-game suspension for his hit on Ottawa Senators forward Dean McAmmond in the pre-season.
The incident happened in the third period of Philadelphia's 8-2 win at GM Place. With the Flyers up 7-2 at the time, Boulerice cross-checked Kesler in the face after the Canuck tried to hit Flyers defenceman Randy Jones behind the net.
Kesler lay on the ice for a few minutes before being helped to the Vancouver bench. He didn't return to the game. Boulerice received a match penalty and game misconduct.
"I reacted in a bad way - the wrong way," Boulerice said following the game. "I wanted to give him a hit back."
Kesler practised Thursday and expects to play tonight when the Canucks face the Oilers.
"We're by no means condoning what happened," Flyers coach John Stevens said after the team announced the suspension. "He's going to have to stand up and pay the price."
Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren echoed the same sentiment.
''I think we're in agreement that there's no place in the game for this anymore. I do think it was an isolated incident. Jesse lost his composure, lost his cool. It's something that's not the right thing to do, at any time,'' Holmgren said.
''I expected the worst,'' said Holmgren. ''Is 25 the worst? It's pretty close to what I expected.''
Boulerice, 29, signed with the Flyers after completing a tryout in the exhibition season.
Under the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, and based on his average annual salary, Boulerice will forfeit $63,502.75. He will be eligible to return on December 13 at Montreal.
This is not the first time Boulerice has been suspended for a stick foul. When he played junior hockey, he was suspended for one year by the Ontario Hockey League for hitting Andrew Long in the face with a baseball-style swing of his stick. Boulerice also faced assault charges in that case.
LONGEST NHL SUSPENSIONS FOR ON-ICE VIOLENCE
25 games - Jesse Boulerice, Philadelphia, Oct. 12, 2007, for cross-checking Vancouver centre Ryan Kesler across the face in a game on Oct. 10.
25 games - Chris Simon, New York Islanders, March 11, 2007, for the rest of the regular season (15 games) and playoffs for his two-handed stick attack to the face of New York Rangers forward Ryan Hollweg. Since Islanders played only five playoff games, suspension extended to first five games of 2007-08.
23 games - Marty McSorley, Boston, Feb. 2000, for knocking out Vancouver's Donald Brashear with a stick-swinging hit. On Nov. 7, 2000, the suspension was extended by NHL commissioner Gary Bettman to Feb. 20, 2001.
23 games - Gordie Dwyer, Tampa Bay, Sept. 19, 2000, for abusing officials and coming out of the penalty box to fight in an exhibition game against Washington.
21 games - Dale Hunter, Washington, May 1993, for a blindside check of Pierre Turgeon of the N.Y. Islanders after a goal in a playoff game.
20 games - Steve Downie, Philadelphia, Sept. 28, 2007, for leaving his feet to deliver a deliberate hit to the head Ottawa forward Dean McAmmond in a pre-season game Sept. 25.
20 games - Todd Bertuzzi, Vancouver, March 11, 2004, for his sucker-punch of Colorado forward Steve Moore on March 8. Bertuzzi's suspension was for 13 regular season games, plus playoffs. Bertuzzi was reinstated 17 months later, after the year-long lockout.
20 games - Tom Lysiak, Chicago, Oct. 1983, for intentionally tripping a linesman.
20 games - Brad May, Phoenix, Nov. 15, 2000, for hitting Columbus' Steve Heinze on the nose with his stick in a game on Nov. 11.
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Edited by - spade632 on 10/12/2007 15:11:43 |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2007 : 16:20:02
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25 games is dead right. Especially when you consider this meatball had a 1 year suspension from the OHL for a stick swinging incident.
Bottom line, Campbell said it well. A stick is used to shot and pass, not hit players in the face/cross check.
2nd Flyer this year to get more than a 20 game suspension. Are the Broad Street Bullies Back??
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 21:44:12
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I am surprised that he got 25 games. I guess they are starting to look at the crime, and not just the damage inflicted.
I'm not sure where I stand on this one. Having played a lot of hockey, I know I've done some stupid things on the ice that probably deserved a suspension, but because I never hurt anyone (much), I never got one.
I think we need to be careful here. Example - let's say Ovechkin is being harassed all game, and he turns around and cross-checks a guy high and catches him in the face. Maybe the guy was a weasel (you know, one of those guys with minor skill sent to throw the talent guys off of their game). So Ovechkin snaps, and cross-checks him. Not hard, but similar to this one on Kesler.
Do you want Ovechkin out for 25 games? How does that benefit the game?
Look, I've played a million games in my life, and stuff happens. I'm not saying this clown didn't deserve a suspension, but when you start throwing out 25 gamers when the guy isn't even hurt, I get worried. What happens when Joe Thornton slashes a guy and this stick comes up a bit? The guy gets up after a minute or two, no cuts, no bruises. Joe - out 25 games? The Sharks might miss the playoffs over something like that!
Let's not lose sight of the fact that this game is a tough game played by tough guys. I don't want my hockey looking like a basketball or soccer game, with guys flopping all over the place in order to get a guy suspended, because now they know he might get 25 games for a hit that doesn't even cause an injury.
Just an opinion from the side of the devil's advocate...
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 22:38:12
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So you are saying that players shouldnt be supended based on there value to the team? Bull s***. Players who use there sticks in ways like Boulerice did should suffer a severe penalty and i am very happy that he did receive the 25 game suspension. I dont think it matters whethor you spend most of your time in the minors or are probably gunna score 50 goals that type of action has absolutly no place in hockey. what does it matter if kesler wasnt hurt on the play? It was the action that counts. Kesler could have been very seriously hurt if the jackasses stick didnt break. Lets not forget that Boulerice almost killed a man while playing in the OHL. He shouldnt be allowed to even play hockey.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 03:02:54
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To a certain extent I agree with the "this is a tough game played by tough guys" line of thinking. It's a question of balancing that with how to deal with actions which we clearly know are not only wrong, but potentially career/life threatening. It is tricky though, I agree.
I suppose the Ovechkin example would depend on a couple of things - the degree of premeditation involved being one of them. If it's kind of all in one motion, with Ovechkin immediately turning around and venting his frustration in a dangerous but instantaneously reactionary manner, without any proof of a clear intent to do some serious harm, it should still probably receive a serious suspension (given the stick involvement in particular) but maybe not 25 games. I'd say 5 to10 games maybe though, and depending on the degree of recklessness, perhaps more. If, on the other hand, Ovechkin turns around, moves forward a bit, clearly goes after the guy, and very much seems to know what he is doing (that he is taking his stick high to his opponents body), then we may very well be talking a 25 gamer or more in my opinion, regardless of whether Ovechkin is both on the verge of leading the Caps to the playoffs and a few points away from some very impressive scorong record, regardless of whether the goon has been HACKING Ovechkin all night (hate those HACKERS ) and regardless of whether the goon gets up without a scar and later that evening dances the night away with Brittany Spears, Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan (though maybe the goon should get suspended big-time for that !!!!)
Edit - The hacking and "harassing" is an issue that has to be dealt with effectively too though. Some of that stuff is okay, but if Ovechkin is getting chopped to pieces all night or is on the receiving end of some other sorts of tactics that clearly should be getting penalized, the league has got to look at ways to better control that stuff too. I know, I know, that may lead to an NHL game which we don't like, where too much is being called. This too is tricky, but hopefully a good balance can eventually be found. |
Edited by - andyhack on 10/15/2007 06:15:54 |
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Guest0873
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Posted - 10/15/2007 : 06:32:42
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| Hey, "pretty dumb 4 a puck guy", If Alex Ovechkin cross-checks someone to the head as you describe, he WILL be suspended 10-20 games, and if he brandishes his stick lke Boulerice it will be 40 for sure. If Joe Thornton accidentaly hits someone wih his stick as in your description, he will get 5 minutes if the refs see it. The next stick to the head with clear intent to injure will definitely get 40 games. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 09:46:39
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First of all, Guest 0873, please don't get personal. This isn't what this site is about. Disagree with an opinion, but don't throw personal shots at people.
It shouldn't matter who the player is and it shouldn't matter what the outcome is. It's the crime that should be punished. And as much as it's a tough guys sport, there is still a responsibility. No player has the right to intentionally injury another player, regardless of who it is. And I'm not talking about the big hits or other things that are part of the game. I'm talking about this Baulerice kind of garbage. Also, when you watch the replay of this situation, it wasn't a reactive swipe with the stick(which I still think it crap, but anyway) it was a minute of both of these guys going at each other, then one gets hit in the face with a stick!
My thoughts are this. Firstly, the kids playing with the cages make them fearless. What a high stick to the helmet with a full face cage?? I'm not saying that the kids should stop wearing them, but it does make them fearless. The coaches in the junior ranks should have more responsibilities in teaching a little more than just winning.
Secondly, I agree that the suspensions might be getting up there in numbers, but the momentum was way on the end of reckless play that was hurting people. Until it gets straightened out, the penalties will be very stiff.
I personally think it's about time!
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 17:29:19
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As for being "dumb 4 a puck guy", I can take it. I know where my knowledge of the game is, and I can hold my own, thanks.
I'm old school. I know it isn't popular, or politically correct, but I'm somewhere between Don Cherry and Phil Esposito. Those are the guys who I can relate to as far as opinions go, on many (but not all) topics.
I believe in suspending players for violent acts that have nothing to do with the beauty of the game. With that said, I don't know how many of you guys have played the game at a high level (and by high I don't necessarily mean NHL - I mean in a game situation where you think you would do just about anything to win).
I have, and I know what it is like to be taunted in a game where you are playing extremely close to the edge. This is not soccer. You don't have time to run half a mile and think things over. Sometimes bad stuff happens fast. You cross the line. You deserve a consequence, but the situation is a lot more gray, and not black and white, as some would believe it is.
Is Chris Simon a bad man? Is McSorely? Would they do this anywhere but on the ice? I don't think so. Maybe I'm off base with Boulerice. Maybe he is a bad guy who needs to be doing something else with his life. His history suggests this is true.
But I know that the day Luongo high sticks some guy for encroaching his crease area and breaks the guy's nose, getting him a 15 game suspension, the people calling me names will suddenly be rationalizing the slash.
I don't like the Canucks or the Flyers, so I have no vested interest at all. All I know is that the big number suspensions are going to really be felt the first time a player of quality is suspended. If the NHL wants to be fair, a guy like Ovechkin should get 25 games if he did the same thing as Boulerice. I doubt it'll happen that way.
I guess we'll see what happens the next time, because there is alway going to be acts of violence in hockey. It's inevitable. You put two pitbulls in a cage, and they're going to fight. Just ask Michael Vick. |
Edited by - fly4apuckguy on 10/15/2007 17:32:54 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 18:10:08
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Hey Fly, Mike Vick can't skate!!
Seriously, I agree with the part about Ovechkin or Luongo. I think the NHL will prove they are doing something right IF (and that's a big if) the same punishment happens to a superstar type player. If Luongo is getting hassled all game by a guy like Smyth of Holmstrom and he just loses it and cracks a guy in the head, the league will look like a joke if they do nothing, or very little.
It is a message that Downie and this Boulerice kid got 20+ games, but at the end of the day, neither was likely to play a bunch this year anyway. However, take away a superstar for 20 games+. I hope it happens.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 19:55:29
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Fly, You commented on doing anything to win a game, The Boulerice cross-check to the face had absolutly ZERO meaning to winning the game. It was 7-2 for crying out loud, and in the third period. Did Boulerice think "Oh s***, Kesler might single handedly score 6 goals to tie it up with less then 10 minutes to go, i am pretty sure that had nothing to do with what was going through his mind.
Beans I completly agree with everthing you mentioned in your last comment. I do hope that if a so called "Superstar" even it was Roberto Luongo that did that he deserves the same punishment, will he get it? Probably not but i do hope he would.
As for the comment on wether McSorely was a bad guy or not, I like McSorely and do not believe what he did was intentional and that Brashear was trying to sell the play and sustained his injury by hitting his head on the ice.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 20:03:34
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Here's the thing guys. What's the choice? 5 games 7 games, 10 games? All those may seem like enough I guess, but let's say the cards from above weren't quite as fortunate the other night. It wouldn't have taken too much really. A centimeter here or a centimeter there, the angle of contact a degree here or a degree there, and we got ourselves a very sad tragedy. Do we wait til that point to say that these suspensions should be a little longer? If that sad scenario plays out, suddenly 25 games doesn't look like so much, does it?
Frankly, I suspect the sport of hockey has been incredibly lucky over the years in terms of the number of serious injuries which have occured. I'm actually surprised that more serious injuries don't happen even on just the marginal stuff, or for that matter even on some clean hits or just from the incredibly fast and physical nature of the game.
But a serious injury from clean hits, high speed accidents or pile-ups in the corners and so on, though very sad too, would not be something we would be saying later, "we could have maybe stopped this from happening" (at least we wouldn't be saying it nearly as much as we would for the clearly dirty stuff).
A serious injury from the marginal stuff, well, that's the cloudy area that I agree is extremely difficult to eliminate or control to everyone's satisfaction, without closing down all the arenas and calling it a day. It is indeed "a tough game played by tough guys" at a very high speed. That stuff will happen and sometimes serious injuries will result unfortunately.
But a serious injury from something like last week can perhaps be avoided, or at least the chances of injury drastically lessened, by very strictly punishing the crime, regardless of the damage incurred and regardless of the status/value to the league of the wrongdoer.
Hockey should be played very hard, no doubt. But the end of winning a hockey game doesn't come anywhere near justifying the means if we are talking about doing things like what happened last week. And I'll say that even if it's '72 Canada-Russia by the way. I like Espo too, but I'd hope that now, on reflection, good old Phil would agree with me that stuff happens, yes, but there is stuff and then there is stuff.
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 21:16:18
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't say a guy should do anything to win a hockey game. I said I've been in the heat of battle, and it's not always so cut and dried that a guy just skates around thinking, "I'm gonna hit someone in the head with my stick." It's a fast, extremely intense, sometimes violent game. Does that excuse it? No. Does it explain it? Yes.
Why do you think this kind of thing continues to happen year in and year out? Please don't tell me players nowadays don't have the same respect for one another. I saw Dave Brown almost kill Thomas Sandstrom in 1987 with a viscious cross-check to the face (he got 15 games for a cross-check far worse than Boulerice's). I saw Wayne Maki and Ted Green go lumberjack on each other (Green almost died) in 1969, I think it was. Maki got suspended for one month, which ended up being like 14 games or something. Green got 12 games. The great Rocket Richard smoked a guy with his stick in 1955, right over the head. Then he punched the linesman. He was suspended for the rest of the season and playoffs (not sure how many games that was, but it was less than 25). This one started a riot in Montreal.
My point is, no the Boulerice shot was not a good incident. But no matter what penalty they hand out, to whomever they want, it is still going to happen. It will never stop happening because it is the nature of the game, no matter who is playing it. It is a fact. If you've played the game at a high level, you know the intensity of which I speak. If you haven't, then I am talking Japanese to you right now, and my words mean nothing. I get that.
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 21:49:00
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Hey flyguy-sama (that's a term of respect even higher than "san" in Japan). Welcome back by the way!
I'm not sure if you were responding to me or someone else (maybe Canucks Man? - I think him now as I look at his post) but, anyway, I wasn't saying that you said this or that. I was just saying this particular incident happens to be one that is a bit "clear of the clouds", and for these types of incidents the "This is hockey" argument, though perhaps a very slight mitigating factor, isn't much more than that in terms of a defence to a pretty serious offence. I actually quite agree with you though on your "nature of the game" comment and said something similar in the earlier Downie thread.
So, even though I actually haven't played hockey at that high a level, we agree! Strange cause I KNOW you are not talking Japanese to me, that's for sure (I do play at a fairly high level in that arena. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 23:30:49
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Excuse me, but if it is the nature of the game to almost kill players then maybe hockey itself should be shut down. This guy has now almost taken off a giys head twice. The first incedent was far worse in terms of injury but not necessarily worse in action. and you are telling me that he did this out of the heat of the game? both times? and its not like there was much of a battle in this case, 7-2!!!! Also i definalty do not think suspensions should be moreor less severe based on injurys. what is that telling players? "Ok boys, you can go head hunting and do incredibly dangerous stuff but only if the guy can still walk when your done.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2007 : 09:36:50
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See, I'm on the opposite side of this arguement to Fly. I agree that it's a fast game, and at times a player can get caught up in the heat of the moment. I can appreicate a hit that's a little agressive or a player slashing a guys stick and missing or other kinds of "hockey" plays. But I can not, or will not, ever accept the Bertuzzi, McSorley, Downie, Tootoo, or Boulerice kind of plays. They are not a hockey play that turned aggressive where an injury occured. They are malicious in intent and have nothing to do with the play of the game.
There is no measure of intensity, game on the line type of thing that can excuse or explain those events. You don't have to play hockey (or any sports for that matter) at a high level to know what is dead wrong.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2007 : 19:21:11
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Hey andyhack, I actually wasn't referring to your comments, but thanks for the Japanese lesson just the same.
We have to agree to disagree on this one, Beans. I understand that a lot of people look at this game and see the beauty in the skating, the passes, the great shots, and the skill overall.
I do, too. But I also see the beauty in the unpredictability of the players. You'd probably think I love the fighting...not true, really. I do not go to the games to see the fights. I'm not one of those fans, not that I have anything against them, really. I think it's a bit juvenile, but in a UFC world, I get why they cheer.
It's the intensity part that I like. Maybe that's why I dislike Russian hockey players, for the most part. I don't want to see guys on the ice smiling at each other. I want them to hate each other for 3 hours. Do I think they should intentionally hurt an opponent? Heck no. But when you walk that line between real and manufactured hate, stuff happens sometimes.
I would not want a utopian hockey game where all the players are worried more about their NHLPA friendships than winning the game. When you want to win so bad you can taste it, I know what happens ain't always pretty. (This does not mean violence wins games...it means intensity creates volatile situations. Please note the difference in my opinion.).
That's all. |
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Jesse Boulerice on Ryan Kesler 
