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blade
Rookie
Canada
199 Posts |
 Posted - 10/17/2007 : 23:20:22
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x = active
1. Wayne Gretzky, Edm-LA-StL-NYR 894
2. Gordie Howe, Det-Har 801
3. Brett Hull, Cal-StL-Dal-Det-Pho 741
4. Marcel Dionne, Det-LA-NYR 731
5. Phil Esposito, Chi-Bos-NYR 717
6. Mike Gartner, Was-Min-NYR-Tor-Pho 708
7. Mark Messier, Edm-NYR-Van-NYR 694
8. Steve Yzerman, Det 692
9. Mario Lemieux, Pit 690
10. Luc Robitaille, LA-Pit-NYR-LA-Det-LA 668
11. Dave Andreychuk, Buf-Tor-NJ-Bos-Col-Buf-TB 640
12. x-Brendan Shanahan, NJ-StL-Har-Det-NYR 627
13. x-Jaromir Jagr, Pit-Was-NYR 622
14. x-Joe Sakic, Que-Col 614
15. Bobby Hull, Chi-Win-Har 610
16. Dino Ciccarelli, Min-Was-Det-TB-Fla 608
17. Jari Kurri, Edm-LA-NYR-Ana-Col 601
18. Mike Bossy, NYI 573
19. Joe Nieuwendyk, Cal-Dal-NJ-Tor-Fla 564
20. Guy Lafleur, Mon-NYR-Que 560
21. John Bucyk, Det-Bos 556
22. Ron Francis, Har-Pit-Car-Tor 549
23. Michel Goulet, Que-Chi 548
24. Maurice Richard, Mon 544
25. Stan Mikita, Chi 541
26. x-Teemu Selanne, Win-Ana-SJ-Col-Ana 540
27. Frank Mahovlich, Det-Tor-Mon 533
28. x-Mats Sundin, Que-Tor 526
29. Bryan Trottier, NYI-Pit 524
30. Pat Verbeek, NJ-Har-NYR-Dal-Det-Dal 522
31. Dale Hawerchuk, Win-Buf-StL-Phi 518
32. Pierre Turgeon, Buf-NYI-Mon-StL-Dal-Col 515
33. Gil Perreault, Buf 512
34. x-Mark Recchi, Pit-Phi-Mon-Phi-Pit-Car-Pit 509
35. x-Mike Modano, Min-Dal 508
36. Jean Beliveau, Mon 507
37. Peter Bondra, Was-Ott-Atl-Chi 503
38. Joe Mullen, StL-Cal-Pit-Bos-Pit 502
39. Lanny McDonald, Tor-Col-Cal 500
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Guest4043
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Posted - 10/17/2007 : 23:38:19
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So even if Jaromir Jagr played for 5 more years (that makes him about 40 I think) and scored 40 goals per season he would barely catch Howe. So Gretzky's record is safe for another generation!
I guess Jagr will end up around 4th or 5th |
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Guest4132
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Posted - 10/18/2007 : 01:28:22
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| I doubt Jagr will play until he is 40. If he did, I almost guarantee he would finish 3-4 all-time in goals and probably 2nd all-time in points. |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 14:08:27
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Definitely not 2nd overall in points. Goals maybe like 4th or 5th alltime
GO PREDATORS GO |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2007 : 21:33:03
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For Jagr to catch Messier he would have to maintain his career average for another 280 games. A little more than 3 years. He's turning 35 in February. Considering he hasn't missed a game in the past two years and he's averaged 1.38 ppg, he could reasonable catch Messier in 260 games if he keeps the pace of the past two years. With Drury and Straka on his line, I can see it happening.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 10/18/2007 21:35:59 |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 13:13:02
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I can't see him catching Messier. Fristly he's already pretty old. He'll retire in about three years. Chances are he won't have the same linemates in 3 seasons either. At 38 he won't be able to keep that pace up.
GO PREDATORS GO |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 14:11:21
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Ok, Nash, I dig ya. I seriously do. But I really don't think you are giving Jagr his due credit. This about this:
-Brind'Amour, Sakic, Selanne, Alfredsson, Nylander, Jagr are all born in 72 or before and each was in the top 25 in scoring in the league last year.
-Messier has 345 points in the years between 35-40. Howe had 375. Sakic has 274 points in the years of 35, 36, 37. Sakic had 100 points as a 37 year old. Why couldn't Jagr??
The difference is that Jagr is a better pure scorer than all of the guys that I mentioned. Jagr is only 360 point from beating Messier on the all time list. Players who have less of an offensive upside than Jagr have done that in their years between 35-40. And Jagr is not 35 yet.
I am not saying it is going to happen without question, but it's not a stretch at all!
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 14:41:08
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Thanks beans i dig ya too! agr can definitely pass jagr in goals but points?
-Jagr will slow down just like Messier
- in order to pass messier he'll have to keep goping at this pace for 3 more years
- he might retire before 3 years
Just 3 good reasons why Jagr PROBABLY won't be able to catch Messier, nothings for sure
GO PREDATORS GO |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 15:56:47
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Hey Nash, 35 to 38 is not old (you must be under 20 to think that). In fact it is very young. At this elite level most players that age are in incredible physical condition and still have the same chops they had at 25-30. Only now they are smarter!
Where being 35 to 38 is a not necessarily a good thing is that players may have acquired more injuries through the years and healing time slows down. Jagr has been reasonably healthy through his career though.
I also think that Jagr is VERY goal orientated so I think if he sees a target (such as Messier) he'll go after it. Question is, does Jagr think it's possible? I think time will show that he does. I think he'll take a run at it! I think he'll crack the number 3 spot...maybe even snatch number 2 from Mr. Hockey.
What about Shanahan? With 628 already, will he crack 700 goals? He's 37 and could play for 3 more years. Even he could pass Messier.
And Sakic is 6 months younger than Shanahan....hmmmmm...... |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 16:59:10
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Firstly I'm 22 thanks Secondly I don't think any nhl player is going to be playing as well as when they're 30 when they are 38. I known that Jagr can pass Messier in goals but points? isn't that stretching it a bit? I guess we'll have to wait a few years to find out
GO PREDATORS GO |
Edited by - nashvillepreds on 10/19/2007 17:00:39 |
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Guest0942
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Posted - 10/19/2007 : 17:14:24
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| Wow, Sakic scored 100 points as a 37 year old? That just goes to show how good Gretzky was. He managed 97 points as a 36 year old, and 90 points as 37 year old playing with no decent line mates at the height of the dead puck era. Amazing. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 18:08:09
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| Jagr is what, 600 points behind Messier? He'll never make it. He has a shot at being in the top 5 goal scorers, but I doubt that he'll pass Howe. You can't compare one season to the next after age 35. From that point on, a player can go from 52 goals to 13. It happens fast sometimes, sometimes they fade slowly, but it eventually happens to all of them. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 19:36:18
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Gretzky 2857
Messier 1887
Howe 1850
Francis 1798
Dionne 1771
Yzerman 1755
Lemieux 1723
Esposito 1590
Sakic 1589
Bourque 1579
Coffey 1531
Jagr 1528
Jagr is 359 points to tie and 360 to over take Messier into 2nd place. He is 34, turning 35 in February. If he plays another 4 year, he needs to average 90 points a year. If he plays 5 year, he would have to average 72 points a year. I'm not saying it's going to happen for sure, but it's not a total stretch. And if he is motivated, healthy, and on a decent team, he's got a ligimate chance.
And I agree with you Fly, he could come out next year and drop completed off.
And Nash, there are some players that can play almost as well in their late 30's as they can in their early 30's. Sakic is a perfect example. So is Brind'Amour and Nylander.
All I am saying is that it's not a stretch. It is more reasonable that Jagr gets there than people on here are saying.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 20:46:15
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| Yeah, okay, if that's all he has to go, it's not a total stretch. It's quite possible he could do it. I hope not. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2007 : 00:27:25
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quote:
Originally posted by nashvillepreds
Firstly I'm 22 thanks Secondly I don't think any nhl player is going to be playing as well as when they're 30 when they are 38. I known that Jagr can pass Messier in goals but points? isn't that stretching it a bit? I guess we'll have to wait a few years to find out
Isn't this thread about GOALS? That's what I was talking about. 100+ goals could very well happen. And like Beans pointed out above, he's got a chance at reaching his points.
And Fly, the same thing happens to the young guys too, they have good and bad seasons. Stop picking on the old guys!!! LOL! (I'm 37 in December LOL!!!!) |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2007 : 00:39:13
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I thought this was relevant. Here is what Pucknuts posted in another thread http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2837
In the last 10 years Jagr, Sakic and Shanahan have gotten this many points:
Player Games Goals Assists Points P/Game
Jaromir Jagr 750 402 588 990 1.32
Joe Sakic… 729 325 518 843 1.16
B Shanahan 785 339 357 696 0.89
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2007 : 06:14:02
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I'm not disagreeing with the goals Leigh I'm disagreeing about the points. I just don't think Jagr can catch Messiers point record.
GO PREDATORS GO |
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Guest4724
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Posted - 10/20/2007 : 06:16:03
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| jagr will pass messier in goals no way will he pass howe (does that total include what) not thta it isnt possible but jagr colud quit tomorrow and sometimes he looks like he quit yesterday.A more telling stat would be their points in the last 3 yrs. ps i alaways hate these questions wheen they are 3 4 5 seasons away concentrate on this season as injuries etc. for example stastny is on pace to be the best ever if he plays like this for 25 yrs |
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Guest4724
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Posted - 10/20/2007 : 06:18:43
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| Soory wha |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2007 : 06:29:40
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Jagr's last 3 NHL year:
Games Goals Assists Points PPG
31 15 14 29 0.94
82 54 69 123 1.50
82 30 66 96 1.17
195 99 149 248 1.27
Also, I was talking about NHL points, not Pro points.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2007 : 13:05:36
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In 2003/04 Jagr had :
. Games G A Pts
Washington 46 16 29 45
New York Rangers 31 15 14 29
3 year Totals 241 115 178 293 Points / Game 1.22
He is capable of 90 goals, and 300 points over the next three seasons.
1 He stays healthy, his groin problems seem to be behind him.
2 He can keep his speed up.
3 He keeps getting top player ice time.
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2007 : 14:34:10
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Puck, my Bad. I just took his Ranger numbers. The PPG is pretty much the same though.
I would say that 90 goals is a certainty if he stays health. Since his rookie year he's never had a season less than 30 goals.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2007 : 17:53:27
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
quote:
Originally posted by nashvillepreds
Firstly I'm 22 thanks Secondly I don't think any nhl player is going to be playing as well as when they're 30 when they are 38. I known that Jagr can pass Messier in goals but points? isn't that stretching it a bit? I guess we'll have to wait a few years to find out
Isn't this thread about GOALS? That's what I was talking about. 100+ goals could very well happen. And like Beans pointed out above, he's got a chance at reaching his points.
And Fly, the same thing happens to the young guys too, they have good and bad seasons. Stop picking on the old guys!!! LOL! (I'm 37 in December LOL!!!!)
I'm 37 already - since September, so I have you beat!
Young guys can have bad seasons, but they have time to bounce back. Look at a guy like Brian Leetch. He went from one of the league's best defensemen to virtual unknown in a little over two years. John LeClaire, same thing. Still a good goal scorer one year, regular healthy scratch and quietly retires the next. Modano is a guy that look like he's hit the end of the line. These are just a few I thought of quickly. There are many more. |
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Greg Smith
Rookie
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 13:28:05
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Nash, sorry I'm on their side with this one. A player like Brian Leetch is a good example. I think jagr does have a god shot of passing him on the all-time list, providing he stays healthy.
After playing in the NHL, it's hard to watch hockey games. |
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NHL 500 Goal Scorers - October 2007 
