| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Fleury Fan 14
Top Prospect
Canada
1 Posts |
 Posted - 10/25/2007 : 12:48:59
|
I can agree with some of you, Others not so much. People who bring up others like Iggy, zatterberg and the rest of them. What kind of supporting cast do these guys have? Iggy has who Tanguay? Zetterberg Has who Datsuyk. Zetterberg has yet to become a elite player due to his injuries, While Iggy has been up and down do to lack of help. I mean don't get me wrong they are great players. But then you compare hockey today to hockey in the 80's.
How you can even consider doing this is way beyond me. The goalie equipment was way smaller and the players were not as big. Take Crosby Iggy or Zetterberg and move them back to the 80's and they would of competed with Gretzky and Lemieux. I would put money on Iggy even beating gretzky due to the fact he will dig in the corners and take the body. Gretzky not so much.
Basically to make my point you can not compare a kid like Crosby to Gretzky. To much has changed in Hockey. I peg Crosby for 120-130 points |
 |
|
|
Guest9910
( )
|
Posted - 10/25/2007 : 14:07:31
|
Andyhack,
Gretzky's point total was not 164 points in his third NHL season. It was 212. He achieved 164 points in his second NHL season. |
|
|
|
nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2007 : 15:36:53
|
Now the Crosby sucks train has 313 members. Wow Fly is gonna be mad
can somebody who thinks Crosby will get fewer than 100 points please tel me why? speak up please.
GO PREDATORS GO |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2007 : 17:46:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9910
Andyhack,
Gretzky's point total was not 164 points in his third NHL season. It was 212. He achieved 164 points in his second NHL season.
You're right. I must have quickly looked at the stats and counted that '78/79 WHA season as an NHL one. Sorry about that. I know you're a huge Gretzky fan. No offense intended.
I saw Gretzky at MLG that 212 point year by the way. A friend and I bought some tickets on College street on a very wintry night for a fair amount of money (in the grey section but still a big thing for a couple of high school guys with extremely low side incomes). There was loads of Gretzky hype around that game and we went in expecting to see Gretzky get like 7 points and for the then verrry lowly Leafs to get absolutely killed. We weren't Gretzky fans but thought it would be cool to be part of his historic season. Final score, 6-1 Leafs. |
|
|
|
fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2007 : 19:59:33
|
320 people now...and yes I am mad...
I'm willing to sound off stating why I think Crosby will end up at 142. Why can't somebody man up and explain their <100 reasoning?
Why? Because they can't. They are not knowledgable enough. They are haters. Every superstar has haters. Even the almost teflon-coated Bobby Orr had haters who said he played too offensively.
Gretzky had haters, Mario had haters, now Sid has haters.
"Jump on board, quasi-fans of the game, and take a ride on the hater train!"
It's a new jingle for all to enjoy... |
Edited by - fly4apuckguy on 10/25/2007 20:00:37 |
|
|
|
fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2007 : 21:16:38
|
I can't even instigate a response. That's sad.
Maybe they don't like the instigator rule, either. |
|
|
|
Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2007 : 22:11:29
|
I guess their reasoning for not explaining their opinion is because it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
____________________
Whether in hockey or politics, the Senators have always annoyed me |
|
|
|
Guest9537
( )
|
Posted - 10/26/2007 : 09:39:33
|
I picked Crosby to have over 100 points...but I will speak up for those who thinks he'll get under. First off...what is so bad about that?? Is a 90 point player not a good player in this league any more?? I'm sure there are a lot of teams who would love to have even one 90 pt player on their team. Like I said before, the Crosby fan club are sure quick to jump all over anything said about him that is not related to him equaling god. Calm down geez!
No, I would not be surprised if he got under 100, just as I would if he got over. He's the top player on a team that is probably 2 lines deep offensively...tops. He'll draw the best defenders in the league and regardless of how good he is...that can hamper his point totals. The penguins are obviously struggling, especially defensively (their best 2 defensemen are offensive dmen)...and it is hard to score points when the other team is putting pucks in your net all the time. That's the reasoning (at least for me) that Crosby might get under 100 points...satisfied?
What's the reasoning behind your thought (fly4apuckguy) that he'll get over 140 pts?
Because he's good? Well every good player has had slumping years...so just cause he's good doesn't mean he'll always go up every year in points...
Because he's done well for 2 years? that's only 2 years!! how can you make any kind of educated guess on just 2 seasons?
Also, the last player to get OVER 140 pts was Lemieux back in 95-96 (over 10 years ago)....since then the highest total was 127pts by Jagr in 98-99 with an average of only 111pts for highest point total a season since 1995. Making a huge jump to 140 like that isn't very likely...especially with scoring down in general.
As for ice time...crosby doesn't get 23-24 mins because he doesn't kill penalties. Zetterberg probably averages 3-4 mins of penalty kill time (depending on how many pk's there are) a game....
There's more to hockey than just offense folks....defense plays into things too. |
|
|
|
87CrOsBy87
Top Prospect
Canada
30 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2007 : 10:59:44
|
i say 8000000000 points
Go Jays |
|
|
|
nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2007 : 12:48:38
|
Maybe the people who said less than 100 just clicked on the first random thing they saw. I haven't heard anybody say anything about him having less than 100. It'd possible... Or they just don't have much hockey knowledge.
GO PREDATORS GO |
|
|
|
fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2007 : 21:10:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9537
What's the reasoning behind your thought (fly4apuckguy) that he'll get over 140 pts?
Because he's good? Well every good player has had slumping years...so just cause he's good doesn't mean he'll always go up every year in points...
Because he's done well for 2 years? that's only 2 years!! how can you make any kind of educated guess on just 2 seasons?
Also, the last player to get OVER 140 pts was Lemieux back in 95-96 (over 10 years ago)....since then the highest total was 127pts by Jagr in 98-99 with an average of only 111pts for highest point total a season since 1995. Making a huge jump to 140 like that isn't very likely...especially with scoring down in general.
I appreciate your bravery.
And now I laugh at your foolishness.
I don't think he'll get 140 points because he's "good", as you say. Darcy Tucker is good. Petr Prucha is good. Heck, even Keith Tkachuk is still good.
Crosby is the best player in the league, man. He's not good...he's great.
Have you been paying attention, bro? League MVP, Art Ross winner, 1st pick overall in the draft a few years back, youngest player to reach 200 points, youngest captain ever...and the list goes on.
I'll admit, 140 is optimpistic on my part, but hey, I'm an optimistic guy. It sure as heck makes a lot more sense than pegging the best player to come along since Mario Lemieux with 90 points when he has just come off of two 100+ seasons in his first two years.
But thanks for responding, I needed that... |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 09:35:22
|
Fly, I think your 140 is optimistic based on exactly what you said. Ya, he might get 4 against TO, 6 against MONT, and 2 against MINNY. So there, he's at 2 PPG. But didn't you also say that he had 23 points in 10 games?? That's just over 2 ppg. In 10 games, not 80! Getting 2 PPG average for a season is something that I just can't see happening with the team he is on, the focus that is on him, and the game today.
I disagree with those who say that he will get less than 100 points. but I don't think it's that far of a stretch for again, reasons you said. He's not getting the minutes and his team is doing a poor job of finishing for him. Who's to say that won't continue for the season?? Know one can say for sure.
I still say that Crosby will be some where around 110. I think for sure over 100, I doubt over 130.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 10:11:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I still say that Crosby will be some where around 110. I think for sure over 100, I doubt over 130.
Here's my prediction.
He hovers around the same pace for the first half of the season, with the odd streaky strech here and there to put him at about 50 to 55 points at the halfway mark.
In the second half we'll see a significant increase in production from him, and some 4 or 5 point games. Scoring at a rate of just under 2 points per game in the second half, he'll have 127 going into his last game, and then score 3 in the first two periods that night to put him at 130. And with about 10 seconds left in the third period of that last game, he'll set up the then very soon to retire Recchi for an empty netter, for his 131st point of the season, and Willus and I will light up our cigars! 
Edit - actually, even at Crosby's current pace (12 points in 9 games) he would get 109 points if he plays 82 games. So for the first half, he could get 55 points even without the odd streak here or there that I mentioned before. So he might reach 60 or even 65 in the first half if those streaks happen.
Back to Isles-Canucks, Game 1, 1982 - am I the only one who enjoys watching vintage hockey and classic hockey more than the games today?
|
Edited by - andyhack on 10/27/2007 13:41:47 |
|
|
|
fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 13:27:02
|
I don't think he'll score at a 2 point per game clip - I said close. I think he'll score at a 1.775 point per game clip, which would represent about a 0.25 ppg increase over last year. One-quarter of a point per game? That's a one point every four game increase.
That is hardly what I'd call an outrageous increase to predict.
But I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'm willing to make this interesting...no bets...maybe a donation...
If Sid plays more than 75 games and gets less than 120 points this year, I will donate $100 to Hockey Fights Cancer. If he plays 75 games and scores less than 100 points, I'll double it and donate $200. If he gets injured and plays fewer than 75 games, this is nullified.
You have my word of honour that this will be done. I would be willing to email someone a copy of the pledge, if it comes to pass. I'm a man of my word, and for a good cause, I'm willing to have a bit of fun with my own man-love of the Wizard of Cros.  |
Edited by - fly4apuckguy on 10/27/2007 13:56:11 |
|
|
|
willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 14:28:57
|
You're not the only one Andy. In my opinion hockey was far more entertaining back then.
I've actually got the same game on here. Though it doesn't have my full attention as I'm trying to get other things done around here. 
Those Isle's were fantastic.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
|
|
|
PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 14:42:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by fly4apuckguy
But I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'm willing to make this interesting...no bets...maybe a donation...
If Sid plays more than 75 games and gets less than 120 points this year, I will donate $100 to Hockey Fights Cancer. If he plays 75 games and scores less than 100 points, I'll double it and donate $200. If he gets injured and plays fewer than 75 games, this is nullified.
Why do you have to make a bet to prove you can predict the future?
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
|
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 15:37:45
|
Hey Fly, I'm in too. I will make a $100 donation if he gets more than 130 points, period. (Sorry, I don't make a ton of cash to be able to donate more)
And Andy/Willus, I too prefer to watch a game from between 1975 and 1995 than today. As above, the Classic Sports channels are not on my TV as they are a luxury that I can not afford at the present time. But I do love the month long previews that happen.
My wife sure doesn't like them though.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
|
|
|
fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 23:07:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
quote:
Originally posted by fly4apuckguy
But I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'm willing to make this interesting...no bets...maybe a donation...
If Sid plays more than 75 games and gets less than 120 points this year, I will donate $100 to Hockey Fights Cancer. If he plays 75 games and scores less than 100 points, I'll double it and donate $200. If he gets injured and plays fewer than 75 games, this is nullified.
Why do you have to make a bet to prove you can predict the future?
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
Not a bet, a doanation. I'd probably donate that much to cancer this year anyway. This just shows I'm no poseur. I believe in the Kid (although Sid, you need to pick it up a bit - help a brother out ).
Thanks for throwing down, Beans. This will be fun.
|
|
|
|
willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 08:22:37
|
I'm in for the donation as well. Though, like Fly I probably would make the contribution anyway. Cancer research is the field I support most.
So how many points does he need to get for this? I need to remember so I can light a cigar with Andy when he achieves it.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 08:27:35
|
You call Willus. You say he gets X. If he doesn't, you donate X.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2007 : 15:42:21
|
Hey Fly, you see Crosby get 4 points against Minny? Who was playing on his line?? Malkin is a better hockey player than I think you are giving him credit for.
I think that the coach, what ever that Meatballs name is, has been trying to spread the talent. But that would have been like Sather putting Kurri and Gretzky on different lines. Just not the right move.
I think Malkin could be Crosby's Kurri. If so, I might lose the bet after all. Sid's got 17 points in 10 games. He's gotta do just a shade more than that in the next 71 games to break 140.
We'll see!!!
If you want to know an opinion, feel free ask. If you want to know information, do your research! |
|
|
|
fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2007 : 22:01:38
|
Regarding Malkin...he's been playing tremendous hockey lately. i won't take anything away from him, because he's been proving me wrong. I guess I just heard a lot of Ovechkin comparisons last year, and I know that isn't a good comparison. He's more like a slower, not-quite-as-gifted Mario Lemieux. Not 1990 Mario, more like 2005 Mario. Which is still a terrific compliment - he's just not as dynamic as Ovechkin, I guess you'd say.
Putting the right guy with Sid is tricky. The Pens have a great young line-up, but not a lot of great finshers (Sid included). The guys who can score (Christensen, Malone, and Staal), all lack something else from their game that makes them incompatibale with the kid (Christensen is soft, the other two are slow).
Anyway, I did see the 4 point game (hey - I've literally missed about five of Crosby's games since he entered the NHL - it's a sickness, I know). I'm not sure that it's a case of who was on Sid's line as who wasn't. I want to go on record as saying that I really respect Mark Recchi for all he has done, his contribution to the game and to Hockey Canada in various tournaments, but the end of the line is close.
I think Terrien finally sees that, and I'm guessing this will certainly be Rex's last year in the NHL.
If Malkin keeps playing like he has been, he'd be a great Kurri to Sid's Gretzky. |
|
|
|
Guest8301
( )
|
Posted - 11/01/2007 : 09:54:41
|
I'm tired of all the excitement about Crosby. I hope he gets 30 points all season and has too cry himself to sleep. That's just what I hope, realistically I say he gets around 110. He's a good player on a good team, but not the god that everyone wants him to be. you can thank the media and marketing ploys for that, and the fact that Mario Lemieux(another one with a sucky attitude) is trying to relive his glory days through Crosby. Everything has played in his favor since he started, I can't believe they gave him the captiancy already, he's not a leader with great experience, he's a little kid that can skate fast. Like seriously, what motivational talks would he give in the locker room? I get twice as many points as the rest of you because i'm still only 12 and have double the energy of most of you!? I think he probably deserves to be the captain if he stays consistant, but not for another year or two. Anyway, I just wanted to say that he doesn't deserve the size of the spotlight he has just yet. He most likely will end up being the next Gretzky but not for a while. Mario, Reebok, Gatorade and TV have made him a good player with a great status, once he can lose all these things and still carry the same size spotlight he will be a great player with a great status!
Until then...I hate Sid the kid! |
|
|
|
Guest9979
( )
|
Posted - 11/02/2007 : 14:29:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9910
Andyhack,
Gretzky's point total was not 164 points in his third NHL season. It was 212. He achieved 164 points in his second NHL season.
You're right. I must have quickly looked at the stats and counted that '78/79 WHA season as an NHL one. Sorry about that. I know you're a huge Gretzky fan. No offense intended.
I saw Gretzky at MLG that 212 point year by the way. A friend and I bought some tickets on College street on a very wintry night for a fair amount of money (in the grey section but still a big thing for a couple of high school guys with extremely low side incomes). There was loads of Gretzky hype around that game and we went in expecting to see Gretzky get like 7 points and for the then verrry lowly Leafs to get absolutely killed. We weren't Gretzky fans but thought it would be cool to be part of his historic season. Final score, 6-1 Leafs.
Haha, no offense taken, Andyhack. I just wanted to point it out to put the pole in its proper perspective. Cool story about your trip to MLG. Funny the Oilers got blown out! Did Gretzky even get a point? If not, probably the only game of that 212 point season! |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 05:44:46
|
Sid's current pace is looking pretty good for us Willus! My brother does business in Cuba, so I'll put in an order for the cigars !
Guest 9979 - Believe it or not, I have actually spent a few minutes this Sunday morning unsuccessfully searching the internet, trying to confirm my memory of that game (well, we kind of have an extra hour today!).
I'm pretty sure Gretzky assisted on the one Oilers goal. The story of the night, as I recall, was that Jiri Chra, noted by one person on the internet as "one of the worst goalies in Toronto Maple Leaf history (which is saying quite a lot)" was in net that night, and actually played very well.
Totally off the Sid topic I know, but the Chra story below is kind of funny,
"Back in the early 80s, the Leafs brought a goalie over from Czechoslovakia named Jiri Chra. During an exhibition game in which Chra was the back up, he was told by the coach that he would be replacing the other goalie about half way through the game. a delayed penalty was being called and the Leaf goalie starts heading for the bench to get the extra man on the ice. Chra thinking it is his time to go in the game jumps on the ice without his mask on, or his stick and gets the Leafs a too many men penalty. Another historic moment of the Ballard era."
|
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 08:16:13
|
Gretzky's 3rd NHL season was 212 pts, but that was his 4th PRO season. He played a full season with the Oilers in the WHA before they joined the NHL. So in this comparison of the two, I think it's right to use and include the 104 points in 72 games for the WHA OIlers.
Crosby, 20 pts in 13 games. 1.53 PPG. 82 games will be 126 points.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
|
|
|
I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 11:01:44
|
to anyone who picked over, say, 120 points, you must have some disturbed ideas in that head of yours...This isn't the 80's.....goalies are a lot better now-a-days. I hope he gets less than 100...Hell, I hope he gets less than 20......but with all those garbage goals and assists he gets from pucks deflecting off his ass. he's bound to get a fair amount of points.....He scores about 3 nice goals a year, and all the rest are messed up hyperbolies that TSN fills our heads with....
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
|
|
|
willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 11:19:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
to anyone who picked over, say, 120 points, you must have some disturbed ideas in that head of yours...This isn't the 80's.....goalies are a lot better now-a-days. I hope he gets less than 100...Hell, I hope he gets less than 20......but with all those garbage goals and assists he gets from pucks deflecting off his ass. he's bound to get a fair amount of points.....He scores about 3 nice goals a year, and all the rest are messed up hyperbolies that TSN fills our heads with....
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day!
Classic trolling here...
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
|
|
|
Greg Smith
Rookie
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 11:29:06
|
What does everybody on this site have aganst Crosby?
After playing in the NHL, it's hard to watch hockey games. |
|
|
|
I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 16:26:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Greg Smith
What does everybody on this site have aganst Crosby?
After playing in the NHL, it's hard to watch hockey games.
Are you kidding? I won't rewrite all those posts I put up last year, hahahaha...But common, he is really obnoxious...From his knock off Ray Bourque Celebrations, to his dives and all that bitching, not to mention his cliche pre/post- game remarks.....And I'll admit the other large problem is that canada's main sports channel (TSN) seems to forget there are loads of other equally (or at least really close) talented players out there, and spends half a show(that's hockey, or the intermissions, etc.) beating off Crosby's ego.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
|
|
|
fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 16:47:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Greg Smith
What does everybody on this site have aganst Crosby?
After playing in the NHL, it's hard to watch hockey games.
Only part-timers and haters have something against him. Even the guys who are not his greatest supporters are knowledgable enough to say he is a great player.
IHC has/had one purpose. To draw people into arguments. Kinda sad, really.
Crosby rules. 7 points in his last three games. More to come. |
|
|
|
pensfan17
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
330 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 21:25:52
|
crosby is only 20, not even close to his prime and already owns.
just imangine him in 6 or 7 years!
|
|
|
|
Guest6099
( )
|
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 03:25:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by pensfan17
crosby is only 20, not even close to his prime and already owns.
just imangine him in 6 or 7 years!
He might only be 20 but he is very mature. I don't think he cares very much about how many points he'll end up with this season. He's more concerned about his team making the playoffs than proving the hockey crowd he's the best. He already knows it and is humble about it. Although he's been playing for less than 5 years in the NHL, everyone (except for some airheads) conceded him his exceptional talent.
He takes too much attention away from other excellent players though. His shadow covers the Iginlas, the Sundins (although I have a nourished hate for the Leafs), the Alfredssons, the Lecavaliers and the Marty Brodeurs of this sport.
On the Zettenberg side, I think like most Swedish players, he has consistancy and might end up with an average of one point a game this season (or a little more) but he's no match for Sid the Kid. |
|
|
|
PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 06:14:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Greg Smith
What does everybody on this site have aganst Crosby?
Not everybody, I do not have anything against him. Some people may be jelious that their team was not lucky enough to select him.
He gets all the media attention, like the leafs, and many people hate them because of it, not really their fault though.
The NHL is doing their best to promote him to boost the US market, unfortunately we can not turn that type of hype off when we are watching highlights, or games on TV...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
|
|
|
|
fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 19:05:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6099
quote:
Originally posted by pensfan17
crosby is only 20, not even close to his prime and already owns.
just imangine him in 6 or 7 years!
He takes too much attention away from other excellent players though. His shadow covers the Iginlas, the Sundins (although I have a nourished hate for the Leafs), the Alfredssons, the Lecavaliers and the Marty Brodeurs of this sport.
This is true only for people who watch the highlights and nothing more. I watch Flames games, Oiler games, Wild games, Leaf games, Sens games and those games are not about Sid. It's like saying that the NFL only talks about Tom Brady. Sure he's featured on football talk shows, but not if you are watching a Chargers game.
Tiger Woods, A-Rod, LeBron James, Roger Federer, David Beckham...every sport has it's popular players. Does that mean we shouldn't acknowledge their accomplishments? Should we focus more on David Toms, Pudge Rodriguez, Kevin Garnett, and so on? If you are a fan of the sport, you know who the second teir guys are and what they accomplish (unless you only watch the highlights). I never get this argument whatsoever, I have to tell you. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Sidney Crosby's 07/08 Point Total 
