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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2007 : 13:19:52
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Is Zdeno Chara really that tough? He wins a lot of fights but he's also 6 foot 9. Most of the guys can't even get to his face in fights. But is the guy really as tough as he seems?
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go!
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shinnyafterschool
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
375 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 14:04:49
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| The guy sure does use his size to his advantage. I think we would have to see how he fares against another guy who is 6'9 before it can be decided if he is 'tough'. but honestly, i dont know. |
Edited by - shinnyafterschool on 12/03/2007 14:05:19 |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 14:21:42
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| I just think it is his size that makes him a good fighter. His arms are so long that it makes it easier for him to hit. Him versus Pronger would be good to watch. |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 14:46:17
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Pronger is good example of a tough defenseman. If Chara was 6 foot 4 like him, it would be a very interesting fight, for Pronger anyways. Chara would get eaten alive.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 14:53:13
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Remember the Chara - McCabe fight? He had him going like a ragdoll?
How about the year they played Tamapa in the playoffs? He went after Lecavalier, and Lecavalier wanted nothing doing. The guy is a bully, I'm sorry to say. He feeds of small guys to get his glory and make his money. End of story.
I don't like him.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 14:57:41
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I kind of consider him a more intimidating Scott Stevens.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 15:38:10
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Except that Stevens had heart, and led teams to cups. And, if I may say so, revolutionized the play of defensemen. I think he was a mix of potent offence and traditional defence. He had an uncanny know-how of when or when not to jump in on a rush, but he did it less often than not.
Chara? You want to compare a Slovak bully to one of the best D-Men in the last decade? Not on my watch. At least not without defending your position! 
Habs get number 25 this year |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 17:51:38
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Actually, they were both bullies, that's what I was talking about.
Stevens used to go around pointing out opposing players who he was going to hit next. Chara, he is a bully but he doesn't do that. Chara is a better fighter than Stevens, since Stevens lost a lot of his fights due to that fact that he's not 6'9
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 18:07:15
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Fine. But Stevens didn't head hunt.
I know that that is TECHNICALLY the defintion that you mentioned. But I'd like to see someone say he tried to hurt people. Tried.
Chara vs. Vinny Lecavalier? Why do you think he was goin after him? Take out their number one guy. The guy should be playing basketball, not hockey. He does a disservice to the image of the sport.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 18:41:00
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I honestly believe, Chara is just a very good fighter. He has toughness. And part of what makes a person tough, is using size to your advantage.
But looking at one of the latest fights, David Koci - 6'6, 238lbs. Brought up to the NHL to fight, and is supposed to be a very though guy. He has a strong record of dominating some fights thus far in the NHL, against some tough heavyweights.
But Chara, 6'9, 255, in the end throws 7 unanswered rights, busting Koci's nose.
Yes, Chara is still the larger of the two, but Koci is no small guy by any means. It
I don't find Chara to be much of a bully, in all honesty. Not these days. He was brought in to the NHL originally, to be a fighter! It was his job, until they realized the guy could actually play hockey... so now he focuses more on that. But, he's not the type to back down.
The guy is tough, any way you slice it. He has the size, which is great, but he can throw a punch to. You don't just open a guys nose that is 6'6, 238.
Size does not make you tough, but it does help to a degree. But i've seen some big guys, get wrecked by ones a lot smaller. Chara has heart and passion, in my opinion, and it makes him that much tougher than the opposition.
Irvine |
Edited by - irvine on 12/04/2007 18:44:14 |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 18:50:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Chara vs. Vinny Lecavalier? Why do you think he was goin after him? Take out their number one guy. The guy should be playing basketball, not hockey. He does a disservice to the image of the sport.
Habs get number 25 this year
I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. If Chara wanted to hurt Lecavalier, he'd have done so. At the end of it, he was standing over a laying down Lecav... with his arm up, showing that he could in fact end Lecavaliers night right there. But, he didn't. I think that shows some class. Yes, he showed he could do it! But, did he? Nah.
By the way folks, www.hockeyfights.com is pretty cool for listing fights, etc..
Irvine |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 18:53:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Chara vs. Vinny Lecavalier? Why do you think he was goin after him? Take out their number one guy. The guy should be playing basketball, not hockey. He does a disservice to the image of the sport.
Habs get number 25 this year
I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. If Chara wanted to hurt Lecavalier, he'd have done so. At the end of it, he was standing over a laying down Lecav... with his arm up, showing that he could in fact end Lecavaliers night right there. But, he didn't. I think that shows some class. Yes, he showed he could do it! But, did he? Nah.
By the way folks, www.hockeyfights.com is pretty cool for listing fights, etc..
Irvine |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 19:00:55
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You kidding? Ask Don Cherry (and me) what we think.
He made a mockery out of him and then pretended to be the good guy. What a loser.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 19:30:51
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If a player is stupid enough to drop his gloves against Chara then he deserves to get his lights knocked out.
Chara does not go looking for fights against the little guys, if he did then he would be a bully, McCabe was not too smart, and Chara could have done more damage except he used his better judgment, and threw him around like a rag dool rather than smashing his face in...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Guest4024
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Posted - 12/04/2007 : 21:33:48
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| chara is a very good fighter. Maybe its because the fact that he has a blackbelt. |
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Guest8372
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Posted - 12/05/2007 : 07:22:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
You kidding? Ask Don Cherry (and me) what we think.
He made a mockery out of him and then pretended to be the good guy. What a loser.
Habs get number 25 this year
Congrats, this wins as the silliest thing I've read this week. Tall feat considering George dub-yah was quoted this week.
Don't drop the gloves against Chara. Nuff said. If a little munchkin (imagine someone 6'4" a munchkin) decides to fight with Chara, who's the bully?
Big Z does not drop the gloves for nothing, he knows he means more to his team on the ice than in the penalty box for 5+ minutes. If Chara wants to drop the gloves against you it is because you did something cheap to piss him off and when he does the best thing to do is turtle and beg for mercy. If you decide to drop the gloves also and settle the fight within the hockey code, just look at Koci.
If you drop the gloves against Chara first, don't complain when he treats you like a rag doll. Z won't back down from a challenge. |
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kingwoody2
Top Prospect
72 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 07:38:24
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| I'd want Chara on my team any day. Toughness with some skill and a long stick to get in the way |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 08:33:45
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| I agree, Chara is my #2 choice after Pronger. Chara is probably one of the toughest and meanest defenders that I've ever seen. He can play on the Maples anytime. |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 08:34:21
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| I agree, Chara is my #2 choice after Pronger. Chara is probably one of the toughest and meanest defenders that I've ever seen. He can play on the Maples anytime. |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 09:28:08
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Wouldn't that be neat to see Chara, and Gill on D together, how much further would you have to skate to get by those big guys???
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Guest9252
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Posted - 12/05/2007 : 10:26:40
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| Yeah but that would just make it like practice -skating around pylons for the other players... Gill is stuck permanently in slo-motion and Chara (who I think has proven himself to be the toughest player in the league) is also quite slow, although not at Gill's snail's pace. |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 10:34:42
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quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
Wouldn't that be neat to see Chara, and Gill on D together, how much further would you have to skate to get by those big guys???
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
And imagine on the penalty kill, they'd block all the shots and cross crease passes.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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hkalirah
PickupHockey Pro
382 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 10:34:49
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quote:
Remember the Chara - McCabe fight? He had him going like a ragdoll?
How about the year they played Tamapa in the playoffs? He went after Lecavalier, and Lecavalier wanted nothing doing. The guy is a bully, I'm sorry to say. He feeds of small guys to get his glory and make his money. End of story.
I don't like him.
Habs get number 25 this year
From what I remember, Lecavalier was the instigator in that fight. Chara just knocked him down, and could have knocked him out, but didn't. He just held his fist up, but never threw it.
Go Wings Go! |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 14:48:32
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I would like to have seen Lindros in his prime, before the cracks to his skull, he was big, strong, and could hold his own in a fight.
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 15:13:27
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Those make Chara look like a bit of a bully, but they make him look tough too.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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hkalirah
PickupHockey Pro
382 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 17:09:49
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=0_bh0GuWMvg
There was a scrum after the whistle. Chara's holding and obviously trash talking Lecavalier, which often happens in hockey.
Lecavalier drops his right glove first and threw a punch even before Chara's gloves were off. Obviously Chara's going to hit back. He throws 3 or 4 punches, then knocks him to the ground.
Trust me, if Chara was the bully everyone says he is, Lecavalier would have a broken nose or something worse, instead of leading the Lightning to the cup.
You should be glad Chara's not anything like Avery.
Go Wings Go! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 17:55:18
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Since we are in a Trash Talk forum, I might get a little objective.
Chara can't speak two words of English that's why he isn't like Avery. Before you trash talk, learn to talk. How about the Steen hit? You know the concept of taking a hit to make a play? Well it's easy to do when the guy trying to hit you is looking to put people in hospital. He could have easily got the puck off him. His head was down. He chose to hit him and let the puck leave the zone. Is that being smart defensively? Is that what a captain does? Does a captain make plays that get the crowd going and hurt guys to bring up his reputation, and not worry about the puck, or the actual point of the game?
And that's another issue. How does HE deserve to be captain? What about Savard? Sturm? Kobasew? Metropolit? Kessel?
Best of all, Thomas!
Does a captain spend more time in the penalty box than on the ice? He has 58 PIM to date. Next is Jeremy Reich, with 32. Yet he sits fifth in team points.Explain me that if you will.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Guest7007
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Posted - 12/05/2007 : 18:25:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Since we are in a Trash Talk forum, I might get a little objective.
Chara can't speak two words of English that's why he isn't like Avery. Before you trash talk, learn to talk. How about the Steen hit? You know the concept of taking a hit to make a play? Well it's easy to do when the guy trying to hit you is looking to put people in hospital. He could have easily got the puck off him. His head was down. He chose to hit him and let the puck leave the zone. Is that being smart defensively? Is that what a captain does? Does a captain make plays that get the crowd going and hurt guys to bring up his reputation, and not worry about the puck, or the actual point of the game?
And that's another issue. How does HE deserve to be captain? What about Savard? Sturm? Kobasew? Metropolit? Kessel?
Best of all, Thomas!
Does a captain spend more time in the penalty box than on the ice? He has 58 PIM to date. Next is Jeremy Reich, with 32. Yet he sits fifth in team points.Explain me that if you will.
Habs get number 25 this year
Hey Admin,
Can we block this clown from posting? I have yet to see an intelligent post from this guy and unfortunately he posts alot. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 18:31:32
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Excuse me Guest7007
First of all, I don't hide behind an anonymous account. Second of all, I don't attack anybody. I defend my positions and accept those of others and take them into account. I am definitely not the most knoweledgable on this site, not by a long shot. I only got interested in hockey about five years ago.
I come on this website to discuss my opinions and enjoy talking about the game which I hold in high regard. In my humble opinion, Chara does not play the game the way it is meant to be played. By no way am I attacking anyone on this site when I post my opinions.
This is a trash talk forum. I can speak with a little more liberty than in the other forums. Even logically speaking, if I just write bland statements with no objective points of view, then what is the point over here. I write strongly to get my message acorss, not to offend any individual.
It is people like you who take away from the decorum of this website. We are taking about Chara here, not Alex. If I am such a clown, please have the decencdy and common courtesy to elaborate on your perspective of the matter. That is how gentlemen hold a conversation. That is what these forums are for.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 18:46:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Since we are in a Trash Talk forum, I might get a little objective.
Chara can't speak two words of English that's why he isn't like Avery. Before you trash talk, learn to talk. How about the Steen hit? You know the concept of taking a hit to make a play? Well it's easy to do when the guy trying to hit you is looking to put people in hospital. He could have easily got the puck off him. His head was down. He chose to hit him and let the puck leave the zone. Is that being smart defensively? Is that what a captain does? Does a captain make plays that get the crowd going and hurt guys to bring up his reputation, and not worry about the puck, or the actual point of the game?
And that's another issue. How does HE deserve to be captain? What about Savard? Sturm? Kobasew? Metropolit? Kessel?
Best of all, Thomas!
Does a captain spend more time in the penalty box than on the ice? He has 58 PIM to date. Next is Jeremy Reich, with 32. Yet he sits fifth in team points.Explain me that if you will.
Habs get number 25 this year
Nov 17 he had 25 PIM, so his 58 PIM will look a lot higher than all the other players on the Bruins.
He plays the game rough, that is also part of the game, who ever said you have to play the puck?
The last interview that I saw Chara in, he spoke English quite well.
As for being captain, I think he makes an excellent captain, there may be others that think not, but that is what an opinion is for, and Savard is the only assistant out of the players that you mentioned...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 19:35:26
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The thing about English was a joke. I know he converses well, I was the interview.
I didn't know about the 25 PIM, good point. But I do think that it is a slap in the face to give him the C over the guys who have been with the team through its rough years and have stayed to try to bring a championship to Boston.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Guest7007
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Posted - 12/05/2007 : 19:41:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Excuse me Guest7007
First of all, I don't hide behind an anonymous account. Second of all, I don't attack anybody. I defend my positions and accept those of others and take them into account. I am definitely not the most knoweledgable on this site, not by a long shot. I only got interested in hockey about five years ago.
I come on this website to discuss my opinions and enjoy talking about the game which I hold in high regard. In my humble opinion, Chara does not play the game the way it is meant to be played. By no way am I attacking anyone on this site when I post my opinions.
This is a trash talk forum. I can speak with a little more liberty than in the other forums. Even logically speaking, if I just write bland statements with no objective points of view, then what is the point over here. I write strongly to get my message acorss, not to offend any individual.
It is people like you who take away from the decorum of this website. We are taking about Chara here, not Alex. If I am such a clown, please have the decencdy and common courtesy to elaborate on your perspective of the matter. That is how gentlemen hold a conversation. That is what these forums are for.
Habs get number 25 this year
1. You are excused.
2. Pucknuts' reply said it all.
3. To add to Pucknuts stats. Chara is on the ice 30+ minutes a game every game (unless he is injured). Reich is lucky to play 6 minutes and that is if he even plays at all. On a per minute per game played basis Chara penalty minutes is pretty good. Great to some fantasy owners.
4. At least make it intelligent. For example you throw out names of players who should be Captain of the B's yet you give absolutely no reason why.
5. You make a bigotted comment that Chara can't speak 2 words of english. Is that necessary or is that how you trash talk? Then you recently state that you write your message strongly but "not to offend any individual". Really bigottry is quite offensive to me and most people in general.
6. Finally, the coach made him captain because of his impeccable work ethic.
Thanks.
6. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 21:21:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Fine. But Stevens didn't head hunt.
I know that that is TECHNICALLY the defintion that you mentioned. But I'd like to see someone say he tried to hurt people. Tried.
Ok.
He tried to hurt people.
How many people does he have to severely injure for it to sink in to people. I don't care if they were "clean" shoulder checks. The fact of the matter is he went looking for the big open ice hits often times leaving himself out of the play because of it.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
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Guest4912
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Posted - 12/06/2007 : 08:21:06
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I dont know where ALEX came from but he is starting to piss me off, he has not shown one shred of hockey knowledge and frankly, cheers for the Habs
Chara is a franchise player and really, who gives a s*** if he can fight or not. He was put in there to rekindle the boston Bruins and has taken him a while to do so but has now shown signs of it.
Bruins or Habs
BRUINS |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2007 : 08:25:24
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Chara is the captain because he is a leader. After the Sens lost him, it took them some time to sort things over and construct anew defensive pair. The Bruins benefited from the arrival of Chara. Chara did all the things he needed to get them to win, even though they missed the playoffs.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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hkalirah
PickupHockey Pro
382 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2007 : 08:45:56
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I think you’re making a monster out of Chara. It’s not his fault that he’s taller and bigger than the other guys on the ice. Hell if I had that kind of size, I’d throw it around too?
You want to talk about an untalented big man, lets talk about Derek Booguard. He’s got 52 penalty minutes, and a whopping zero points this year. Now tell me which one of the two would you rather have on your team?
You mentioned about the other guys being captain on the team.
Savard – great player, but is still learning leadership. If you see him in interviews, he’s quite soft spoken.
Sturm & Kobasew – Why them over Chara? Are they really that much better?
Kessel & Metropolit – Too young
Thomas – Goalies can’t be captains, against NHL rules.
Chara is very far from being a dirty player. He does make some questionable hits, but who doesn’t? You want to talk about a head hunter, lets talk about Scott Stevens. How many guys did he put out over his career? Wasn’t he just put into the HHOF?
Chara is an excellent defenceman. Any team in the league would love to have his services.
Go Wings Go! |
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Guest8372
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Posted - 12/06/2007 : 09:28:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
I didn't know about the 25 PIM, good point. But I do think that it is a slap in the face to give him the C over the guys who have been with the team through its rough years and have stayed to try to bring a championship to Boston.
Tell us, who exactly was slapped in the face when they gave the C to Chara? Post their names, indicate how much longer they were on the team than Chara and why they should be the captain instead of big Z. |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2007 : 09:34:12
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The only other guy I find suitable would be Murray.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2007 : 11:27:32
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quote:
Originally posted by hkalirah
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0_bh0GuWMvg
There was a scrum after the whistle. Chara's holding and obviously trash talking Lecavalier, which often happens in hockey.
Lecavalier drops his right glove first and threw a punch even before Chara's gloves were off. Obviously Chara's going to hit back. He throws 3 or 4 punches, then knocks him to the ground.
Trust me, if Chara was the bully everyone says he is, Lecavalier would have a broken nose or something worse, instead of leading the Lightning to the cup.
You should be glad Chara's not anything like Avery.
Go Wings Go!
Actually if you look closer you can see that Chara was looking for a fight. Lecavlier knew that he couldn't take him and didn't even want to fight him. Chara kept looking him in the face to start something. What was Vinnie supposed to do? He tried to land a quick one in and maybe take the big guy down. Even though vinnie threw the first punch chara was the one that started it. Also, I'm sorry, but when you are a whole head smaller than someone, you try to take whatever advantage you can get. Or you can take the manly route and get your noggin clocked. |
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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2007 : 11:37:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4912
I dont know where ALEX came from but he is starting to piss me off, he has not shown one shred of hockey knowledge and frankly, cheers for the Habs
Chara is a franchise player and really, who gives a s*** if he can fight or not. He was put in there to rekindle the boston Bruins and has taken him a while to do so but has now shown signs of it.
Bruins or Habs
BRUINS
And no one knows where you came from either, seeing as you seem to be a mystery guest.... |
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Chara tough? 
