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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
 Posted - 12/16/2007 : 08:30:30
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Poll Question:
Do you believe performance enhancing drugs are a part of today's NHL?
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 08:36:56
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Personally i really don't know,, i really hope not but i personally think before the attention gets shifted from baseball to another ofn the major north american sports maybe bettman should hire an outside investigator to come in and make sur our game is clean! That would produce a good responsible image for hockey to the rest of the sports world and show that we're not waiting for it to become a problem to start taking action! And hopfully guys who have done as much for our sport as roger clemens has done for baseball won't get marked!!
Pasty |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 09:14:17
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Sean Hill is a player who used performance enhancing drugs. I think in hockey it is very less common to you use enhancing drugs. In Baseball it happens a lot more. Even in the Olympics. Hockey players are better then that.
Zubov for the Norris! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 09:42:28
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I doubt it, and I will tell you why. Anabolic steroids are the most common performance enhancers. Now, who wants a Barry Bonds on their team? That is just an example, but really, what drugs, other than maybe a testosterone boost, would help hockey players?
Habs get number 25 this year |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 11:26:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
I doubt it, and I will tell you why. Anabolic steroids are the most common performance enhancers. Now, who wants a Barry Bonds on their team? That is just an example, but really, what drugs, other than maybe a testosterone boost, would help hockey players?
Habs get number 25 this year
I guarantee you there are players using performance enhancing drugs in the NHL. Probably would surprise most people to know just how many.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 11:30:38
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Fine, but a) probablynobody big is using it, probably just guys fresh out of junior experimenting to try to boost themselves quickly into the NHL and b) I'm sure that if a big case came up, the NHL would be all over it
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Guest4043
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Posted - 12/16/2007 : 11:31:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
I doubt it, and I will tell you why. Anabolic steroids are the most common performance enhancers. Now, who wants a Barry Bonds on their team? That is just an example, but really, what drugs, other than maybe a testosterone boost, would help hockey players?
Habs get number 25 this year
Sure you retain water on the juice, but steroids only make you big and bulky if you training to be big and bulky. One of the major benefits of steroids is recovery rate. Using steroids athletes are able to recover in a fraction of the time. So imagine from shift-to-shift to be able to be ready faster. Or to able to be be ready for a back-to-back game. Imagine the advantage.
Besides this is about more than steroids, its about growth hormone, blood boosting, and dozens of other enhancers including speed, cocaine...even cold medication. It's about cheating.
I think that performance enhancing drugs are probably used by somewhere between 10 and 15% of the NHL'ers. After all, about 25% of the players in the league are battling everyday to keep their jobs. So it's not a stretch to think that a quarter to a half of those guys are trying to get an illegal edge. The BIG paychecks are a BIG incentive!
Now imagine the guys with performance bonus's built into their contracts; $500K here and $250K there....one less goal, assist, save etc. and you don't get the money. Again, that is some serious motivation. Of course, I'm not saying that everyone with a performance bonus in their contract is juicing, I'm just saying that like the regular world, a certain percentage of good people can be lured into doing bad things when the stakes are high. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 11:41:21
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Quest where are you getting your figures?
If a quarter of the NHL is fighting for their jobs, which I beg to differ (average team is 12 forwards, 6 defensemen, 2 goalies, of the guys who make the roster, it is a push to say 2 of the fourth liners and one of the 3rd line D is fighting for his money, but even so, that is 3 out of 20 which is 15% which is a push) and half of those are using steroids (again, a push) that comes out to 12.5% of the NHL tops.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 12:14:56
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Actually the guest makes some really valid points. It is not a stretch to believe that 25% of players are fighting to keep a job. 15% may be a bit high but I don't think it is unreasonable.
You have to be quite naive to think that steroids is not a part of sports nowadays. Heck, canoeing probably has some steroid users. Hockey has to be one of the lowest among professional sports (good Canadian boys [except Eric Gagne] don't use steroids), however, it is a sport that should look into steroid use a bit more.
P.S. Alex, asking for a feature poll isn't something that you have to ask for. If Admin finds you have made a good, valuable poll, it will be featured. But asking isn't something that should be done. |
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Guest4043
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Posted - 12/16/2007 : 12:23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Quest where are you getting your figures?
If a quarter of the NHL is fighting for their jobs, which I beg to differ (average team is 12 forwards, 6 defensemen, 2 goalies, of the guys who make the roster, it is a push to say 2 of the fourth liners and one of the 3rd line D is fighting for his money, but even so, that is 3 out of 20 which is 15% which is a push) and half of those are using steroids (again, a push) that comes out to 12.5% of the NHL tops.
You didn't account for my comment about other players further up the food chain using as well. The actual percentage is really a guess, I have no formula. I admit that this is just my opinion. So I stand by my point that at least a quarter of the NHL'ers could be replaced in a heartbeat. At least 25% of the guys playing are playing because they are having a good run, or it's their turn to get called up. Most careers are short not because of injury but because they are not that good (relatively speaking) I mean that a guy could get bumped from his job on the 3rd line and be placed on the 4th. And besides, you're missing part of my point math boy. My point is that there is a lot of incentive to cheat, much more than in the real world. |
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Guest4043
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Posted - 12/16/2007 : 12:25:51
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| Oh and Alex,it is not a stretch to think that any of the 4th liners (maybe even 3d liners) and the back-up goalie for nearly every team are fighting tooth and nail for a job the next day. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 12:35:17
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If you don't think that there are NHL players using some kind of performance enhancing products, you are being completely ignorant. And to the person who said steroids are used to bulk up and gain mass. Caveman, what?? If that was the case why to so many cyclists and track stars get busted with steriods. The steriod will perform based on the training being used.
And the NHL Drug Testing Policy is one of the weakest out there compared to the the other big 4 North American Sports. They test 2/year random and are basically looking for specific drugs. For example, ephedrines are not on the list. They can be used for faster recovery and improved respiratory response. Ephedrines(I believe) are banned in all of the other leagues.
So, I guess what I am saying is that if you don't think NHL players are using anything to give them an edge, you are just plain ignorant. Could be stars, could not be, but it is happening.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 14:06:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4043
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Quest where are you getting your figures?
If a quarter of the NHL is fighting for their jobs, which I beg to differ (average team is 12 forwards, 6 defensemen, 2 goalies, of the guys who make the roster, it is a push to say 2 of the fourth liners and one of the 3rd line D is fighting for his money, but even so, that is 3 out of 20 which is 15% which is a push) and half of those are using steroids (again, a push) that comes out to 12.5% of the NHL tops.
You didn't account for my comment about other players further up the food chain using as well. The actual percentage is really a guess, I have no formula. I admit that this is just my opinion. So I stand by my point that at least a quarter of the NHL'ers could be replaced in a heartbeat. At least 25% of the guys playing are playing because they are having a good run, or it's their turn to get called up. Most careers are short not because of injury but because they are not that good (relatively speaking) I mean that a guy could get bumped from his job on the 3rd line and be placed on the 4th. And besides, you're missing part of my point math boy. My point is that there is a lot of incentive to cheat, much more than in the real world.
OK, you do make a good point. I guess we are all used to hearing of the first and second, even sometimes third liners; but yet, nobody knows of the fourth liners. For example, my hockey coach played 7 games in the NHL. How much do you think that makes you? He threw away his life trying to get it big, was too short and small, and now coaches brats  like me to make his bread and butter. So, you do have a valid point. However, I still believe that 25% is slightly high.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 14:09:00
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Beans, I retreat. White flag, white flag!
I do not know much about any drugs. I guess that should be viewed as a good thing, eh? But from what I learned in Phys. Ed, maybe my teacher is a grade A dunce, steroids are used to bulk up and that is why they only have a high market in certain sports. If you tell me otherwise, I am inclined to believe you.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 14:18:12
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exactly the nhl 's screening process is weak lets beef it up 10 random players from every team every month of the regular season get tested that way basicly every player will get tested many more then once, lets put a investigation in effect and make sure our heros are clean if they're not lets clean it up,, i know we all want to think its isn;t a major problem in hockey but i'll put 1000$ on theo fleury having done performance enhaning drugs... what about beurtuzzi?? the irrational temper loss is a sigh of roid use maybe he was juiceing i mean thats not even to mention the blood dopeing and growth hormones,,, the mlb broke it down into catogories some were just on growth hormons not actual steroids,,, for example one of the players pointed out gary matthews jr is one of the fastest smallest players in the league,,, i want to know if my heros are clean,,, not pretend to myself this isn;t a problem in hockey just cuz i love this game!
Pasty |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 14:50:34
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This is a very good point. Canada wants insurance, but can the league afford it? We know that most of North America is ignorant / naive in this issue, and I probably, if nor for sure, do not even have my numbers in the right ballpark. Bettman knows that we have a squeaky clean perception of the league, more so than it deserves. Why spend money just to taint that image, from his point of view?
Habs get number 25 this year |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 15:10:41
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Oh my god!!! Who says not at all?
Obviously some guys juice it up.....Not Jose theodore though...Something about a goalie taking steroids makes no sense to me..I mean if a goalie was to bulk up, it would ruin his flexabiility
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 15:57:28
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Gentlemen, get off of the steroids bulk up crap. A steroid will act based upon training. Period. If a bodybuilder uses steroids, they get bigger. If a sprinter uses steroids, they get faster. If a cyclist uses steriods, the gain endurance and speed.
The effects of a steroid, or Growth Hormone is based on training exclusively. So a goaile wouldn't benift from getting bigger, but would from being faster.
And in regards to the NHL Drug Testing Policy. The only thing wrong with it is what they search for and when. The issues are three fold. Firstly, the do not test for stimulants. As an example Clenbuteral is on the World Anti-Doping list. The item is used to improve oxygen intake through respiration, meaning the person using them is more likely to recover quicker and "catch" their breath faster. Because it is considered a stimulant, it's not against the rules. The second part of it is that the NHL does not test during times when players are likely to be using something, examples being before and after games and in the off season training. And thirdly, and the biggest deal is that a committee comprised of NHL, NHLPA, and player reps set the limits on the drugs. So, they may say a specific banned substance is allowable up to a certain amount where other sports say no.
Basically, if the NHL had some teeth in this policy, they would search for everything on the World Anti Doping Agency's list, and test all the time.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 16:14:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Who said that Jose took any drug
Habs get number 25 this year
The NHL did, hahaha. Remember in his last year with the Habs, he was accused of taking steroids, but claimed it was for his hair....And good point beans, I forgot anbout the cyclists and runners and whatnots who took steroids....I just get the image of Bonds and Mcquire whenever I think of steroids, but lets not forget the likes of Marion Jones!
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
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Guest2966
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Posted - 12/17/2007 : 08:23:27
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| Of course there are guys taking performance enhancing drugs how can you say anabolic steroids wouldn't help a hockey player. Hockey is all about being bigger faster and stronger then your opponent in lots of aspects of the game. There are lots of performance enhancing drugs that are out there that don't turn you freakishly huge. |
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Guest4912
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Posted - 12/17/2007 : 08:44:16
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a goalie taking steroids will not ruin his flexibility that is a myth. he is already very agile and flexible, and increased muscle mass will probablly help this if he continues to train in those aspects.
to be a hockey player you dont need amazing strength like in football, you only need decent strength. some hockey players are twigs.
however, although many nhl guys dont look big,, it is probably a safe bet to assume their is doping going on. players need any advantage they can get in this era, steroids may be a quick and easy answer. |
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Guest0956
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Posted - 12/17/2007 : 10:41:11
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Belief in a lack of performance enhancing drugs in the NHL is nothing but naive.
Steroids do not always transfer to pure muscle mass. Even more importantly, I can easily picture an NHL where higher than 25% of players are taking HGH(Human Growth Hormone). As it stands right now, players have next to no chance of being tested for it by the league and HGH greatly reduces the recovery time for any injury or case of fatigue. Ever wonder why it is NHLer injury recovery times never seem to take as long as your own, or friends of yours with similar injuries? I mean come on, even in the juniors I remember players taking sudafed right before every game for enhanced air intake.
Unfortunatly, admitting there is a problem is committing league suicide, so the NHL's drug woes will probably come to light much in the same way baseball's did. It would be nice to see the league step up and institute a new drug testing policy before the sport becomes tainted. I would like to see the player's union's reaction to that, does anyone think the NHL Player's Union would fight drug testing as vehemetly as MLB's? |
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Guest4912
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Posted - 12/17/2007 : 11:35:59
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these athletes recover quickly because they are in amazing physical condition. i bet you and your buddies are somewheere around 25 or thirty with no condititioning program or anything of the sort. don't compare yourself to elite athletes.
kevin everett of the buffalo bills recently had a severe spinal cord injury. his prognosis was terrible, doctors said he would never walk again. now, he is walking again.
you assume that just because athlete's recovery time is fast and they are muscular men that steroids are the cause. |
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Guest6196
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Posted - 12/18/2007 : 08:35:20
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Of course the NHL is full of drugs, all sports are. Eg. Tennis, golf hockey.
Either accept it or don't watch.
Maybe soon there will be two leagues in all sports, a drug league and a clean league. I would still watch the druged league, the athletes will be stronger and the plays will be more exciting. This is why the NFL is better than the CFL. Please except doping is in all sports. |
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Guest4912
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Posted - 12/18/2007 : 09:58:57
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| undoubtedly there is doping in all sports. cheaters are everywhere. i highly doubt that hockey would have a problem as bad as the mlb or even the national football league. its impossible to know for sure. |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 13:39:01
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Every player on the gold, silver, and bronze medal winning teams in the Olympics are tested.
So far no positive tests, and they scrutinize every sample.
Three out of the top ten are then randomly chosen. That is a lot of players, and so far so good for hockey...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Guest0968
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Posted - 12/18/2007 : 14:17:15
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I said a small minority because I saw on TSN that only 1 of all the players in the NHL has been shown positive for using anabolic steroids.
GO LEAFS GO!!!!!!!! 
Sens and Habs blow
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 15:00:19
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Another thing that I heard is that if the testing is not completed within 5 hours of the drug being taken, it will not test positively. That is why cyclist get tested all the damn time.
Not sure if this is true or not, but I would make sense.
And didn't Theordore and Berard test "positive" during the Olympic selection, but since it was not a recognized competition, they didn't lose anything??
I just find it incredibly hard to believe that in a Pr sport today, with somewhere around 1500 players(NHL and Minors) that not one positive test has occurred?? For God Sakes, the WWE's "Wellness Policy" has had positive results, and it has more hole's than swiss cheese..
I don't buy it.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Guest4724
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Posted - 12/18/2007 : 15:36:08
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| you have your head in the sand if you don't thing players are using performance enhancers i agree it is probabaly 10 to 15 percentmaybe as high as 25 not to say he is using but they showed scott thorton in dressing room and he is huge. And to say bigger muscles wouldnt help come on your fighting pronger or whoever for the puck and your 5 foot 9 muscles could help plus bigger muscles utilize oxygen more effieciently so you can have longer shifts. As for no positive test marion jones never failed one test and she had bigger shoulders than pronger. Read beans submissiion it isnt just about muscles. how mant 5 foot 9 200lb palyers are there ask if thats natural. you sound like the people that are shocked that mcgwire canseco sosa palmerio and basically anyone who has hit over 50 hr in last 15 yrs used some kind of performance enhancing drugs everyone knew and im sure if you think you could come up with a few hockey players |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 21:48:30
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WADA is the governing body for drug testing.
They said that they would do all the testing for baseball, but so far their offer has been declined by the players association, they have a union...
All the pro sports should adapt to all of WADA policies or you do not compete at the Olympics. That means random test etc...
There may be more than meets the eye to why Bettman has said that the NHL may not participate in the Olympics after Vancouver...
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/
You can see a list of band substances, and many other interesting topics...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2007 : 13:37:07
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Of course many, if not a MAJORITY of NHLers are on the juice - steroids, blood doping, and especially cocaine, which has been used more extensively than most can imagione.
For those with their heads in the sand - many big stars are cocaine users! If you have ever tried it, you know it makes you feel invincible, and gives you the adrenaline rush to back it up. In between periods is a favourite time to snort a line for that big comeback in the third.
btw, I know this from hanging out with these guys. |
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Guest2562
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Posted - 12/21/2007 : 19:38:36
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| There are some, but not nearly the 25% someone mentioned on here. MAYBE 5% at the very most. How do I know? I have first hand knowledge. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2007 : 19:41:31
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Of course many, if not a MAJORITY of NHLers are on the juice - steroids, blood doping, and especially cocaine, which has been used more extensively than most can imagione.
For those with their heads in the sand - many big stars are cocaine users! If you have ever tried it, you know it makes you feel invincible, and gives you the adrenaline rush to back it up. In between periods is a favourite time to snort a line for that big comeback in the third.
btw, I know this from hanging out with these guys.
I do know NHL guys, and I challenge you to prove the statement that you "Hang out with them." The quote of 5% is probably fairly accurate. Saying the MAJORITY are on some kind of drugs is an out and out lie, and yes, I'm calling you out. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2007 : 09:45:34
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Define drug before you define percentages and call people out. If you are talking anabolic Steroids, I would agree that it is 5-10%. If it is street drugs, I would say again 5-10%. That being cocaine, marijuana, etc. And if you consider anything that is on the WADA banned substance list (ephedrines as an example), I would say the percentage is a lot higher. Intentially or unintentially. Cold Medication, for example, is a banned substance in WADA but not the NHL.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2008 : 08:27:06
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"Call me out" all you want (hilarious as that is) - if you are talking illegally banned substances, the percentage is very high. To say that you "know" NHL guys, and to actually have hung out with them at the clubs and other hangouts is a different thing, dude.
I am a former bouncer, worked at a few places in Toronto, and back in the day in K-W. I also had a couple of good friends that were hockey players who never made it to the big leagues, but who were friends of NHLers and who were invited to those parties.
I've personally seen star NHLers doing lines, although I would never name names on an online hockey forum. Coke is much more prevalent than anyone thinks. Speed and similar drugs are also used fairly often. I hung out with a lot of these guys at the after hours clubs, where I watched married guys screw around with a different girl every night, and the drugs to go along with the trip were always procured through a friend getting it from another friend. A lot of closed doors for this action, so it's understandable that people don't believe it.
Whatever is shown to the public, it's probably ten times worse. |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2008 : 06:21:46
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Oh, yeah PuckNuts, while we're doing that I'll plead guilty to taking steroids before every game.
I take puffers, which, legally, are steroids. Sue me
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Guest4600
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Posted - 06/13/2011 : 20:11:59
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| They use the stuff especially in the playoffs, when all of the surprise drug testing has taken place. It is more for recovery purposes, and the playoffs can be long and gruelling (long two months for the finalists!) |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 06/14/2011 : 09:49:14
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| nhl players are all great athletes in fantastic shape. if its recovery time that they are using steroids for thats pretty lame and more so embarassing. i could never imagine a goaltender using steroids unless it was tim thomas right before he bowled over henrik sedin last week ;P I know doping happens in all leagues including the NHL but i'd say it is very minimal. the biggest users i can think of are enforcers who need that physical edge and boost of testosterone.... other than that they may help with speed and shot hardness but i can guarantee you the top scorers and fastest players in the league aren't using steroids ... unlike other proffesional sports where the guy with the most homeruns (comparable to most goals in NHL) in recent years have been roid monkeys. |
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Guest9504
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Posted - 06/14/2011 : 10:07:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4312
nhl players are all great athletes in fantastic shape. if its recovery time that they are using steroids for thats pretty lame and more so embarassing. i could never imagine a goaltender using steroids unless it was tim thomas right before he bowled over henrik sedin last week ;P I know doping happens in all leagues including the NHL but i'd say it is very minimal. the biggest users i can think of are enforcers who need that physical edge and boost of testosterone.... other than that they may help with speed and shot hardness but i can guarantee you the top scorers and fastest players in the league aren't using steroids ... unlike other proffesional sports where the guy with the most homeruns (comparable to most goals in NHL) in recent years have been roid monkeys.
You clearly have no idea what steroids are used for. yes they can help you gain muscle if you apply them that way. But in fast moving sprots where athletes are required to be agile as much as strong, they are primarily used to aid in recovery, speed enhancement and physical strength (you don't need to look be a line backer) All things that are necessary in hocke, especially goalies!
I think it is very reasonable to think that NHL athletes in the playoffs are partaking in various performance aids because the surprise testing is over for the season. These guys are up over their 100th game of the season at this point. I hope they are not, but it's plausible that a small percentage or more are using. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 10:34:22
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| I dunno, but i'm sure the league will find that only the Canucks were using them if they go on to win |
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Topic |
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Performance Enhancing Drugs in Hockey? 
