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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
 Posted - 01/29/2008 : 18:04:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Good Point Willus. The only two Bruins that Bourque played with that I can see making the list Neely and Oates. I also think Oates is an outside, boardline guy. However, Potvin will have Tottier, Bossy, and maybe Gillis and Goring. Did he play with Park?? Park should make the list two.
I like Bourque for the top 10, but I think Espo needs to be there first.
I sincerely hope that is a huge understatement.
To answer your question, yes Bourque did play with Park. For a few years actually. I suspect he learned a great deal from him.
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
Edited by - willus3 on 01/29/2008 18:07:39 |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 00:46:34
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| Mike Bossy outscored Trots by 8 points way back in round 5........... |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 14:00:07
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MSC - I don't think there is necessarily any contradiction with that as each round presents us with different players. Lafleur was in the mix in Round 5. If it would have just been, for example, Trottier, Bossy and Yzerman, my guess is that Trottier would have received 1st place votes from at least a few of us, and likely would have beaten out Bossy.
Beans - other Bruins from the early part of Bourque's days in Beantown that at least should be considered at some point for this list are Rick Middleton and Jean Ratelle (though only one season in Ratelle's case). Nevertheless, I agree that Willus's point is indeed a good one.
But throwing everything else out the window except the totally non-scientific, "Gut Instinct/Which of the two would you want leading your defense in a seven game series against a team of All-stars from Mars" test, a "raging" debate continues to go on in my head. Okay, "raging" may be overstating it. But it did cross my mind for a few seconds during President Bush's speech the other night . |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 14:43:50
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Bourque's credentials:
Calder Memorial Trophy (1980)
James Norris Memorial Trophy (1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1994)
King Clancy Memorial Trophy (1992)
Lester Patrick Trophy (2003)
NHL First All-Star Team (1980, 1982, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 2001)
NHL Second All-Star Team (1981, 1983, 1986, 1989, 1995, 1999)
5 Norris trophies and could be argued he deserved more. I would have given it to him over Langway in 84 and Coffey in 85.
Named to 19 All Star teams!! That's a record.
Most points by a defenseman in NHL history.
A terrific all around defenseman and a very good leader. He played through an era that had probably the deepest talent at the defense position and dominated that position.
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 20:58:46
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Bourque's credentials:
Calder Memorial Trophy (1980)
James Norris Memorial Trophy (1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1994)
King Clancy Memorial Trophy (1992)
Lester Patrick Trophy (2003)
NHL First All-Star Team (1980, 1982, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 2001)
NHL Second All-Star Team (1981, 1983, 1986, 1989, 1995, 1999)
I'm not sure where my next vote will go (like Gretzky, Bossy's offensive brilliance is hard to ignore), but I'll add a few more comments about Bourque to the above:
- Ray has got to be high up there on the career ice-time list (I'd be interested in seeing that actually - looked a bit just now for a list but couldn't find one) - anyway, Ray was a major WORKHORSE that way
- was usually very good in the playoffs - remains third all-time in assists
- was better than very good, in fact unbelievably good, against the Habs in the playoffs - Cherry used to comment on this alot (he said something like when Bourque plays the Habs in the playoffs, he may be the best hockey player on the planet)
- in 1990, Bourque lost one of the closest Hart votes ever to Messier - as Willus has noted before, many believe Bourque deserved to win that year - a broader question to ponder though is whether he should have won a few Harts as, if you think about the true definition of that award, one can make what I think is a very legitimate argument that even Gretzky was not, in all of his Hart seasons, as valuable to his team, as his team was SUBSTANTIALLY better than Ray's team (evidenced by the fact that Messier was able to lead the Oilers to a Cup without Wayne). Can you imagine that late 80s/early 90s Bruin team which made it to the Cup finals twice/and semis a couple of times getting anywhere near there without Ray? My guess is that those teams wouldn't have gotten anywhere close, and the mid 80s pre-Neely Bruins that always bowed out to the Habs in the first round might not have even made the playoffs.
Edit - upon reflection, I think Mario's Harts are pretty hard to argue against so I deleted the previous reference to him |
Edited by - andyhack on 02/01/2008 22:12:05 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 21:09:43
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Bourque's credentials:
Calder Memorial Trophy (1980)
James Norris Memorial Trophy (1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1994)
King Clancy Memorial Trophy (1992)
Lester Patrick Trophy (2003)
NHL First All-Star Team (1980, 1982, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 2001)
NHL Second All-Star Team (1981, 1983, 1986, 1989, 1995, 1999)
5 Norris trophies and could be argued he deserved more. I would have given it to him over Langway in 84 and Coffey in 85.
Named to 19 All Star teams!! That's a record.
Most points by a defenseman in NHL history.
A terrific all around defenseman and a very good leader. He played through an era that had probably the deepest talent at the defense position and dominated that position.
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright
I think you meant to say that Coffey should have had it over Langway in 84
Langway 83/84
80 games, 9 goals, 24 assists, 34 points, 61 PIM, +14
Bourque 83/84
78 games, 31 goals, 65 assists, 96 points, 57 PIM, +51
Coffey
80 games, 40 goals, 86 assists, 126 points, 104 PIM, +52
Ok, ok, I can already hear you about Coffey being on the ice for 74 even strength goals compared to Bourques 45, but I think we can at least agree that Langway should have come in 3rd in voting.
I am thinking. Mr. Coffey will start becoming a nominee quite soon. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 21:30:41
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Actually, for me, Coffey does much better on this list than in a best defenseman discussion. Here, I don't have to think of him as a "defenseman", but just as a freak of nature who produced incredibly offensively and happened to be labelled as a defenseman.
Having said that, perhaps we still have a lot of other greats to consider. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 22:13:14
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| Just a heads up to everyone, I'm heading on vacation and back to Canada on 19 Feb. So from 19 Feb to 27 Feb I won't be available to contribute. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 06:39:15
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That last round was close. Probably how it's going to be from now on I suspect.
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 09:33:47
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That vote was stupid close. I am a bit surprised that Bourque was that high. I personally thought that Park would have been there ahead of Bourque. Reason being is that if some clown named Orr didn't play in the 70's, we would be talking about Brad Park with the 2nd most Norris Trophies in History, maybe the most.
But, that's what opinion is all about! My thoughts might have something to do with Boston being one of the better teams during the Oilers hayday and Boston normally gave the mighty Oil a challenge.
And where are the props on Espo??? He missed 8th spot on our list by 1 vote and then there are 4 other players nominated ahead of him in the 2nd round??
Wadupwitdat???
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 14:58:49
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Beans-man,
Bourque's Bruins were good but they were not really a "great' team. They had a "good" supporting cast (I always really liked Dave Poulin, for example) and good goaltending (I mainly mean Moog), and they did at times play quite well against the Oilers in the mid to late '80s (with Stevie Kasper shadowing the Great One). BUT, generally speaking, they were pretty thin beyond Bourque and Neely, and ultimately I think that is what did them in. Park's Bruins of the late '70s did not have a great like Neely, and definitely did not have the talent of the Habs of that era, but they were still quite a strong team and better balanced than the late '80s Bruins team (one year they even had a record 11 twenty goal scorers). Park's Rangers were also quite a strong team. In fact, I think the '72 Rangers team which lost to Orr's Bruins is one of the stronger losing finalists ever.
They were both great players no doubt. I'm just pointing out that when judging them, Park doesn't necessarily get the edge in the "doing more with less" category. In fact, I think Bourque has a fairly clear edge in that department.
Also, regarding your Espo comment, it doesn't necessarily follow that because a player did well in a previous round he should do well, or even be nominated in the current round. We are presented with what we are presented with. It's possible that some of us had a number of players in mind other than Espo as a nominee last round. I don't mean to pick on Espo (I like him actually!), but you bring it up in a way that suggests that guys who voted for him second place last round should automatically be considering him high up there this time. That's just not the case. It's possible for a guy to vote on a player 2nd one round and still have five other guys (who were not nominated) ranked ahead of that player on his own list. Not saying that is the case here, but it is quite possible, and so it really shouldn't surprise you if it does happen. |
Edited by - andyhack on 02/06/2008 15:05:11 |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 16:33:30
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I have always been the biggest Bourque fan, since I was little. Though, I am sure you could tell with my nominating him the last two rounds or so. :p
haha.
Irvine |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 19:36:01
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We are moving on to defence, a little. Don't forget Bob Gainey.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 09:02:38
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MSC to answer your question in the voting thread, no I didn't decide Jagr wasn't worthy this time. The players I wanted were nominated so I tested the waters with two players to try and gauge where others felt they belonged. No point wasting a nomination when you know no one else will put them anywhere else but last.
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 11:38:53
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quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
We are moving on to defence, a little. Don't forget Bob Gainey.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs.
With all due respect to Gainey, I can think of many other d-men that deserve to the there ahead of him .
Coffey, Park, Potvin, Lidstrom, Mark Howe just off the top of my head. |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 13:05:03
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You should know, Beans, that Gainey was Mr. Selke trophy. Not a defenseman, but the best defensive forward in recent history. In fact, hailed by the Soviets, in the 70's, as the greatest hockey player of that time. I don't have a quote to back that up, but it is a common truism that I have heard on more than one occasion.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 15:29:35
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This is from Wikipedia on Gainey:
For the majority of his career he was regarded by many in the Soviet Union hockey system as the greatest hockey player ever. Bob Gainey was described as the world's best all-around player by legendary Soviet national team coach Viktor Tikhonov.
My memory of one of the quotes about Gainey is that a question was put to Tikhonov (or perhaps the coach before him?) about who he would take from Team Canada, and he answered something like,
"Well, if I had my choice, I would take Bob Gainey"
This is the quote my buddies and I have gone with anyway for the last thirty plus years. We sometimes work in quotes from hockey, other sports, movies and so on into our daily lives (can get quite confusing for those around us). Like if we are at a restaurant, and the waitress asks what we want, one of us might say, "Well, if I had my choice, I would take Bob Gainey". We then get looked at as if we're a little nuts, which I guess we are. Sometimes gets misinterpreted too - so generally I try not to say that one. But I might say to a waitress after a meal, "That steak was worth the price of admission in ANY arena" (I think the late John Ferguson once used that wording about Bryan Trottier).
Ahhh, good times.
Anyway, yes, Bob Gainey, tremendous skater, and one of the greatest defensive forwards ever. Could chip in 20 goals too. Not sure if he'll get a high vote from me yet, but I know where you are coming from Oil.
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 16:01:08
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Yeah I think Gainey is a little ways out yet for me.
If he had been blessed with soft hands he would probably make most peoples top ten. Unfortunately he had hands of stone. He could be 15 feet out directly in front of the net and miss the net by two feet.
He was most definitely an amazing Selke type player though and a deceptively fast skater.
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 19:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
MSC to answer your question in the voting thread, no I didn't decide Jagr wasn't worthy this time. The players I wanted were nominated so I tested the waters with two players to try and gauge where others felt they belonged. No point wasting a nomination when you know no one else will put them anywhere else but last.
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright
I understand where you're coming from, but it shouldn't matter what other people think about a player it should only matter where you think the players belong. If you're not nominating the person you feel deserves to be there but some one else just to see how he does that leaves the door wide open for bad rankings...for example....we're making nominations for round x, I nominate Bossy, you agree with this and feel he is the best pick for round x. However since you're sure someone else feels this way and will second him you decide to go out on a limb and nominate Ron Francis just to see what others think of him. Maybe some other people feel other people deserve to be there instead of Bossy or are thinking the same thing you were. Next thing you know the guy you thought would be a run away winner for the round doesn't even get on the ballot. Why? Because you were assuming and "testing the waters". This is hypothetical and you can replace the players names with whoever you please but this very realistically could happen.
It kind of already happened earlier. In round 5 Bossy was voted number 2 by 8 points over trottier. In round 6 he doesn't even make the ballot. |
Edited by - MSC on 02/09/2008 19:47:42 |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 22:08:20
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| Patchy - are you just picking random names from a hat each round? |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 06:25:41
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I look at things in a different way.
If we are selecting a player for round x, and the player that I think should be there has already been nomonated / seconded I will nominate the player I feel should be in the x+1 postion.
A player moving a position or two should not make a big difference, and it is not about what I think it is about what the ten members think...
Champions take chances, and pressure is a privilege.
Billy Jean King to Maria Sharapova
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 07:57:31
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| What you think is the only thing that matters. You shouldn't even consider what the other 10 people think for a second. |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 08:26:14
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
What you think is the only thing that matters. You shouldn't even consider what the other 10 people think for a second.
Maybe you do not understand what I was saying.
I have already made my list of where I think the players should be ranked.
There are ten people that are voting, so yes it matters what the other nine think, or we would just use my list...
Champions take chances, and pressure is a privilege.
Billy Jean King to Maria Sharapova
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 08:28:35
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I'm not considering where other people feel players should be. I'm gaging by their ranking whether or not to waste a nomination or to move on to the next player on my list, then come back to my first choice for that position later.
"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 09:09:21
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Hey MSC, I seen a post of yours that said something along of the line of Bossy should have been #5 on our list.
Just out of curiosity, what puts Bossy ahead of LeFleur, Trottier, Bourque, or Esposito??
Bossy, without question is the best pure goal scorer of the bunch. But what else??
One think I can say is that LeFleur, Trottier, Bourque, and Esposito all had nearly double the career length of Bossy and I think they were most than goal scorers.
Just curious to hear why you have Bossy so much higher than these other players. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 19:23:52
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| I have no real reason other then I'm extremely pro-Bossy for some reason. It's not taking anything away from the other players (well LaFleur is a little to french for my liking) they're all pretty close. Bossy was just such a big "What if?" that I can't help but let my mind wonder thinking about what he could have did. You'll probably notice later on that I rank Neely and LaFontaine higher than most people as well. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 23:36:00
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
I have no real reason other then I'm extremely pro-Bossy for some reason. It's not taking anything away from the other players (well LaFleur is a little to french for my liking) they're all pretty close. Bossy was just such a big "What if?" that I can't help but let my mind wonder thinking about what he could have did. You'll probably notice later on that I rank Neely and LaFontaine higher than most people as well.
Fair enough.
I agree with Neely in the "What if" catagory, but LaFontaine played a decent, 15 year career. Guys I consider in that "what if" catagory are generally less than 10 years.
Most NHL careers average 5 years or less. These guys with 20 year careers are pretty rare and generally they are highly skilled in a specific part of the game. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 00:14:35
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LaFontaine did have a longer career but I really think his totals were hampered by injuries throughout his career. Just because you end up playing 12-20 years doesn't mean they were injury free years.
Edit: After looking into it a bit closer Lafontaine missed a significant amount of time in 5 seasons and missed over 10 games in 3 others. In his 15 year career he only played 865 games. His best season was his 148 point performance which was followed by 16 and 22 game seasons which robbed him of some of his prime years. Lafontaine is moving up my mental list every minute. |
Edited by - MSC on 02/12/2008 00:27:09 |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2008 : 08:01:10
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Assessments/comments on what we've done so far? I think we can give ourselves a pat on the back! 10% raises for all of us!
Our List:
1: Wayne Gretzky
2: Bobby Orr
3: Mario Lemieux
4: Mark Messier
5: Guy Lafleur
6: Bryan Trottier
7: Raymond Bourque
8: Phil Esposito
9: Mike Bossy
10: Steve Yzerman
The Hockey News List (removing the goalies)
1: Wayne Gretzky
2: Bobby Orr
3: Mario Lemieux
4: Mark Messier
5: Steve Yzerman
6: Raymond Bourque
7: Niklas Lidstrom
8: Phil Esposito
9: Mike Bossy
10: Jaromir Jagr
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 08:58:20
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I'm sticking with the man who narrowly missed out last round to the very talented (but sometimes loafer ), Yammy Jagr. I believe for a six or seven year period Potvin reached a level as an overall defenseman which only a guy named Orr surpassed in the last 40 years.
If he doesn't get in this round that would put him more than five spots back of the man I believe is his main competitor for that second spot behind Orr, Ray Bourque. In my humbler than pizza pie opinion, whether you think one of those guys was better than the other is one thing, but they shouldn't be too far apart on this list.
This campaign ad has been approved by Barack Obama (and more importantly, Oprah) |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 10:44:22
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I think our top 4 is on everybody's top 4. 1.Gretzky 2.Orr 3. Lemieux 4.Messier.
I think everyone has that on a list. Except Willus and AndyHack. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 20:33:36
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| Trots got a hefty promotion in the world of hockey legends |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 14:29:06
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It's interesting how we all have different perspectives on this.
In my mind, our putting Trots and Guy significantly higher than the Hockey News guys had them was a very good (check that, GREAT) move by us, but keeping Jagr so high repeats the same error made by those guys. I'm also wondering if we are overrating my favorite player, Mr. Bourque, by putting him so far ahead of Mr. Potvin.
-I'm sure PuckNuts thinks Yzerman is lower than he should be and is reviewing all the stats books to confirm this opinion.
-MSC thinks the same about Bossy - sounds like he had some form of an attack while all that was going on.
-Leigh thinks Espo got pushed down too much and probably blames that guy who started the "Is Espo overrated" poll .
-Beans is asking "Hey, what about Coffey? "
-Oil is like ready to explode with anger over the Gainey snubbing .
-Willus is still secretly campaigning to Pucknuts to somehow discretely reverse the Number 1 and 2 positions.
-Irvine insists that Gordie Howe deserves not to only be on this list but high on it despite only a few post 67 years(albeit pretty impressive ones) .
-Patchy is still debating Bossy vs Espo in his mind even though both are up on the board (yes, that flip flop was noted) .
And finally Mr. PainTrain - he simply seems to be a generally content young man, just soaking it all in and enjoying talking about all these greats. You gotta love that! |
Edited by - andyhack on 02/19/2008 14:31:30 |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 14:56:50
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Very nice assessment. I think it crystalizes the reality that this forum will be the result of many opinionated individuals to reach a consensus, which is not to say that all agree on the results, but that all played a part in deciding the results.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 23:26:26
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| I don't see how Jagr was an error....please enlighten....just a reminder I'm starting some travelling today and won't be back around until probably 27 or 28 Feb...good luck |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 06:16:55
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The problem I have with Jagr is that no matter how talented he was/is, as a coach I would always be at least a little worried if tonight was the night he decided to just loaf around rather than give 110% Clarke, Potvin, Sakic ... -like effort.
Don't get me wrong, I know he has had absolutely tremendous moments, and produced extremely well offensively considering he played in the dead puck era. I don't think he should be ranked WAY down there, but I do think closer to 16th to 20th (rather than about 10th) would have been more appropriate.
I also think that, even putting aside the potential floating thing with Yammy, a guy like Dionne should squeak by him on this list anyway, based simply on Marcel's incredible offensive numbers and talent. This to me, more than a Guy comparison, is an example of where Marcel is underrated.
* though I admit that Marcel is a tricky one to figure out for this list - for me, some of the more difficult placement choices we have are Marcel, Coffey, Forsberg and Neely |
Edited by - andyhack on 02/20/2008 06:17:46 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 12:02:40
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Larry Robinson's credentials.
Conn Smythe Trophy (1978)
First All-Star Team Defense (1977, 1979, 1980)
James Norris Memorial Trophy (1977, 1980)
Second All-Star Team Defense (1978, 1981, 1986)
Leading player in all time +/-
He was even a plus player on the weak defensive LA teams with Gretzky.
Robinson's game was as complete as they get. He was solid in his own end and could produce great numbers offensively.
He could hit like a train:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKd4HJNSbQg
He could fight like few others I've see. He didn't fight a lot but heaven help the guy who set him off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZmRWz_Dyk0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJC2lx5bpBM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQx_iyUuCt8&feature=related
A very good skater for a guy his size. Great offensive instincts as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9rp-ewJ8mI
Robinson may only have 2 Norris trophies, but he was up against very stiff competition his entire career. Potvin, Bourque , Chelios...
Throw Larry in the mix with Lidstrom while he won his 5 Norris trophies and I would bet copious amounts of krugerrand that Lidstrom would have nary a one.
"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 15:36:04
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Brad Park
- Named to the First All-Star Team in 1970, 1972, 1974, 1976 and 1978.
- Named to the Second All-Star Team in 1971 and 1973.
- Runner up in Norris Trophy voting in 1970, 1971, 1972, 1974, 1976 and 1978 (most runner-ups ever!)
In a decade which included Bobby Orr, Denis Potvin and Larry Robinson (as well as Salming, Lapointe and Savard), this guy was considered one of the best four defenceman every year except 1975 (only because he missed almost a quarter of the season - still had a pretty good year by the way), 1977 (only because of very stiff competition) and 1979 (only because by then his knees were all but gone).
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On a separate note, and this is just a suggestion, but I wonder if we shouldn't try to remove the tie from last round. Just think maybe the list would look better without ties.
On that note, unless any of the other guys who voted for Potvin strongly object, I'd be willing to give Dionne the nod for #14 and put Potvin in at 15 - we could perhaps make a note of the tie with an asterisk, but I prefer the idea of having one guy as 14, and one guy as 15.
Thoughts, condemnations, threats against the lives of my loved ones?
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Edited by - andyhack on 02/28/2008 15:41:33 |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 16:07:51
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I'd rather not have ties as well.
"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright |
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PickUp Top 50 Since 1967 Comments 
