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Guest4590
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 Posted - 01/23/2008 : 17:18:34
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Who would you have? Iggy or Vinny?
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Edited by - willus3 on 01/23/2008 18:23:16
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 17:46:34
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iggy any day of the week and four times on sunday
Pasty |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 18:30:11
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Hard, but Vinny. He in my mind is the complete package, and has yet to reach his potential. Anything good about Iggy, Vinny has, and then some.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2008 : 20:39:09
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This is about the hardest question in the league today.
Personally, as hard as it is for an Oiler fan to say, I would take Iginla.
Personally, I can't see either of them outshining the other in any facit of the game. Both of these fellers can flat out play stick. I really don't see one better than the other.
Iginla was born and grew up in St. Albert, which is a bedroom community of Edmonton. My Sister in Law knew him a little, kind of hung around the same crowd. Plus, I've met his Dad a couple of times and he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.
For that, I have to go with Mr. Iginla.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 12:49:16
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Beans, emotions slightly get in the way of that.
But imagine Lecavalier at his FULL potential? Isn't it obvious Lecavaliet over Iggy?
Habs get number 25 this year |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 13:24:09
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Iggy all the way.
Alex i beleave their asking about right now not in 3 years. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 13:29:41
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quote:
Originally posted by tbar
Iggy all the way.
Alex i beleave their asking about right now not in 3 years.
Tbar, since right now is so neck and neck, the future HAS to play a role in this question in my mind.
Right now, I would say it depends on the team. A team that needs a leader / mentor / role model / inspiration, take Iggy. Anyone else, Vinny, as I velieve he is the more complete package and more talented player.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 14:11:24
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No, it's not clear that Lecavalier is a better player than Iginla.
I'd love to hear what areas of the game you think Lecavalier is futher ahead than Iginla??
Skating??
Shooting??
Leadership??
Grit??
What is Lecavalier better than Iginla at???
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 15:47:59
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Size, hands, finesse, playmaking, speed, shot, klutch (not like in terms of production, but when he turns it on when he has a chance to make a good play in to a GREAT scoring chance), scoring touch, sixth sense in terms of knowing where guys are and who is on his tail, and the ability to single handedly take over a game.
The next Mario? Maybe the Mario of today's NHL. People have said it before me!
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 16:01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Size, hands, finesse, playmaking, speed, shot, klutch (not like in terms of production, but when he turns it on when he has a chance to make a good play in to a GREAT scoring chance), scoring touch, sixth sense in terms of knowing where guys are and who is on his tail, and the ability to single handedly take over a game.
The next Mario? Maybe the Mario of today's NHL. People have said it before me!
Habs get number 25 this year
ok woa woa woa not to take anything away from vinny but no no and no,, iggy is a better skater and size??? they're both roughly the same size and if anything iggy uses his size much more and plays a way tougher and more agressive game,,, iggy plays d vinny is not a defensive liability or anything but his game is not anywhere near as complete in his own end,,, clutch?? remember how slow the flames started?? iggy turned up the heat and turned his team around,,, the mvp this year will either be iggy or roberto there is no aspect of the game where vinny is better then iggy,, hes close very close but iggy could be the best active player in the league vinny is top 10
Pasty |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 16:07:37
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Pasty, read my definition for klutch. And size as in , when do you see Lecavalier muscled off a puck or knocked down? You know how much that does for his stamina? With Iggy dishing and taking hits all the time, he is losing a lot of his endurance potential right there. Dynamic, no question. Strong, D-oh! Smart? I'm not sure.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 16:18:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Pasty, read my definition for klutch. And size as in , when do you see Lecavalier muscled off a puck or knocked down? You know how much that does for his stamina? With Iggy dishing and taking hits all the time, he is losing a lot of his endurance potential right there. Dynamic, no question. Strong, D-oh! Smart? I'm not sure.
Habs get number 25 this year
the definition of clutch is as the dictionary reads,, not as how alex states it,, and sure vinny doesn't get mucled off the puck much but again iggy is the kind of guy who doesn;t get knocked off the puck and goes in the corner and gets it ,, he muscles others off the puck,,, im sorry you cant state random things about one player and say well your defintion doesn;t include that because it fails to suit your point!
Pasty |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 16:24:47
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Well I can't think of a better word! You know what I mean!
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 17:09:47
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No Alex, I don't know what you mean. Everything you said that Lecavalier is better than Iginla at I completely disagree with.
Size
Iginla 6'1" 204 lbs
Lecavalier 6'4" 219 lbs
Sure, 3" taller and 15 lbs heavier. However, I don't see Lecavalier playing "bigger" than Iginla. In fact, I think Iginla uses his body more than Lecavailier does. In the end, it's pretty close.
Hands - This is complete opinion. Lecavalier may be a better stick handler that Iginla. This is really hard to measure.
Finesse - As I said above, I think Iginla uses his body more, so I will give you that Lecavalier has more of a finesse game.
Playmaking -
Inginla - Assists 07/08 - 31, Career APG-0.44
Lecavalier - Asissts 07/08 36, career APG - 0.46
In terms of scoring playmaking, pretty much the same.
Speed
Again, a judgement call, I would put them pretty close to the same. Lecavalier keeps up pretty good with St. Louis, and Iginla keeps up pretty good with Lombardi or Huselius. Can't see Lecavalier with that big of an edge if any.
Shot
Does anyone know of either having their shot measured??? Both have killer wrist shots. Iginla is very Messier-esqe with his wrist shot.
Clutch
I leave that one alone. Pretty hard to measure. Both are counted on by their teams in clutch situations.
Scoring Touch
Iginla Goals 07/08 - 32, career GPG - .41. 7 season of 30+goals, 2 seasons of 40+ goals, 1 season of more than 50 goals.
Lecavalier Goals 07/08 - 30, career GPG - .38. 5 season of 30+goals, 1 season of 40+, and one season of 50+.
Both have one Richard Trophy. Scoring touch is a draw or even a bit of an edge to Iginla.
6th Sense-
How the hell can you measure that?? Both have amazing hockey sense.
Ability to take over a game
Again, I can't measure that.
In the end of it all, they are pretty much the same player statistically, with a slight edge going to Iginla.
However, one thing I consider is that Lecavalier has played on the same line with a former Hart and Art Ross Trophy winner for the past 7 season. Who has Iginla played with?? No one with St. Louis credentials.
Also, consider the Olympic Teams they have been involved in. Both played in 02 and in 06. Iginla was on the big line and put into most of the clutch situations. Lecavalier was there too, but not counted on Iginla was.
That is why I based it off of personal preference. You can not prove with any real consistancy that one is superior than the other.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 17:16:07
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Beans while I can not really argue, for the first like five topics you judged you either said Vinny had an edge or it was tied. Then you say they are basically the same with Iggy getting the edge. Yet in terms of topics, you only gave him scoring.
?
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 18:07:39
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Be careful not to put words into my mouth.
I said that Lecavalier might be physically bigger but does not play bigger than Iginla.
I said that Lecavalier can stick handle better, but I never said he had better hands. I think Iginla is a better pure scorer which also requires hands.
Finesse - I gave to Lecavalier.
Playmaking I said pretty much the same.
Speed, I also said they were pretty close, I didn't give the edge to either.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Guest7010
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Posted - 01/24/2008 : 18:46:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4590
Who would you have? Iggy or Vinny?
All this talk about Iggy and Vinny. How about Alfie? |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 18:58:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Be careful not to put words into my mouth.
I said that Lecavalier might be physically bigger but does not play bigger than Iginla.
I said that Lecavalier can stick handle better, but I never said he had better hands. I think Iginla is a better pure scorer which also requires hands.
Finesse - I gave to Lecavalier.
Playmaking I said pretty much the same.
Speed, I also said they were pretty close, I didn't give the edge to either.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
In your words:
Lecavalier may be a better stick handler that Iginla.
As I said above, I think Iginla uses his body more, so I will give you that Lecavalier has more of a finesse game.
Lecavalier - Asissts 07/08 36, career APG - 0.46
Speed:Can't see Lecavalier with that big of an edge if any.
Scoring touch is a draw or even a bit of an edge to Iginla
Notice that when you think Iginla has the edge, you say so. Logic would compel us then to agree, that when you say 'it is close' you are covering up that Lecavalier has the edge, as we see perfectly through the playmaking category for example. More assists, and then you say 'pretty close'. Why not say Iggy is better and try to push your point? Because you are saying without saying Vinny is better!
What does the jury think of this ? 
Habs get number 25 this year |
Edited by - Alex on 01/24/2008 18:59:25 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 19:02:30
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The Jury thinks you are sniffing glue!!!
No disrespect to Lecavalier. It's either him or Iginla who I consider the best player in the league.
All I am saying through this is that neither of them is significantly better then the other in any area of the game.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 19:04:02
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I see your point. I just have this strong gut feel that Lecavalier will in fact be the next Lemieux. You can't tell me the glimpses aren't there.
And the jury is wrong. The 'in' thing to sniff these days is Purell.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 20:11:28
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Mario Lemieux??? Seriously?? Wow
Lecavalier through 678 games
263 goals, 313 assists, 576 points. -60
Lemieux through 669 games
563 goals, 809 assists, 1372 points. +116.
I can totally see it. Lecavalier is the 2nd coming of Lemieux!! Lemiuex more than doubled Lecavalier statistically in fewer games.
Alex, even if Lecavalier was to have a 20 year career (assuming he finishes this year with about 110 points, 610ish career), he would have to get 100 points a year for 11 straight years. Gretzky is the only guy to ever to that, and he did that in this 20's and early 30's Lecavalier would have to do that through his 30's. Not likely. Mario was about the only other guy that could do that.
For Lecavalier to come close to Lemieux's PPG, he would have to score 5 points a game for the next 228 games to have the 1723 points in 915 games that Lemieux did. Or, if he does play a 20 year career, he would have to average 197 points a year for the last 11 years of his career. and end up with around 2740 points to have a PPG average of 1.88 like Lemieux had.
Lecavalier is not even remotely close to the second coming of Mario.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Guest8372
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Posted - 01/25/2008 : 07:41:02
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Beans well said.
Lecavalier is the second coming of Pierre Turgeon if you want to use a recent French Canadian comparison.
Both drafted #1 overall. Pierre had a slow first year, but then turned it on mid career. Injuries slowed him down later on.
Vinny started very slowly but he has turned it on of late. He is hitting his prime now and slow down in about 5 years. Statistically you should compare Vinny to Pierre. |
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kipper_kariya
Top Prospect
Canada
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 07:57:17
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iggy all the way he can hit score fight leadership and is a good two way forward you cant ask for much more in a guy
FLAMES TO THE CUP
its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog GO FLAMES!! WOOO |
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kingwoody2
Top Prospect
72 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 07:57:53
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I would rather have Lecavalier. He is 3 years younger than Iginla and just as good. I don't see how anyone can say Iginla is the best player in the game. Sure he is a good player/leader and I would take him on my team any day, but really this is only the third good year he has had. Other years have been ok but not outstanding. The same can be said for Vinnie but he has 3 more years to get better.
Thats the only reason basically.
I think its gonna be a tossup for MVP this year. Could go to anybody. We have a bunch of great players but no one stands out. |
Edited by - kingwoody2 on 01/25/2008 08:09:35 |
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hkalirah
PickupHockey Pro
382 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 08:44:40
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If I were an owner/GM of a team I’d go with Iggy.
I think that they are both equally great players, but I think Iggy is more marketable. He seems pretty comfortable doing interviews, while Lecavalier is more soft spoken.
Go Wings Go! |
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Kyrens gpa
Top Prospect
14 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 08:52:45
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| It is really a tough question to answer.......The two of them are so similar. They both have hands ( phone booth thing), they both have over-powering shots and accurate,both are leaders and if they are going so goes the team,both can explode at any time in any game,both can disappear when the checking gets tough. So far, with this question, I have identified another flavour in the Black Magic Box because on any night you just never know what you are going to get....................................... |
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Guest2288
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Posted - 01/25/2008 : 09:04:31
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| Any comparisons to point scoring (VInny-Mario) have to be taken with a grain of salt, just like if you try to compare Sid to Wayne. The players played in a different era. I'm not saying i think vinny is the 2nd coming of lemieux, i just think you can't compare their point production straight up, as lemieux played in a more high scoring era. And to answer the question, i think it should be posed a bit differently, be a bit more exact with what you're lookin for. If you're lookin for a one year type of thing, i'd probly go with Iggy. If you're just askin who you would like to have on your team, that leaves the future in the equation so i'd take vinny as he is younger and seems to be rounding into an absolute phenom. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 10:41:50
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All good point guys.
As a GM hkalirah, I think you are making a mistake. Vinny is younger and has a bigger potential so what are you saying? As an OWNER your arguments make sense for Iggy, and they are very good ones
KingWoody2, you are right about the age, and I agree with you, but Iginla having only 3 good years, and you call them OK? Buddy this one is off. Iginla has been good for a while now. Very good for a while now.
And Beans, I said the Lemieux of the new NHL
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Datsyuk 1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
333 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 22:01:23
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| I'd take Iggy for how he take full responsiblity for losses, great leader, can fight and can score. Also Vinny has players Iggy does too but not as much. |
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Who would you have? Iggy or Vinny? 
