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leafs all the way
Top Prospect
Canada
6 Posts |
 Posted - 02/21/2008 : 17:58:45
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Poll Question:
Do you think the NHL should have a limit on the amount of player you should be aloud to trade in a year?
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Edited by - willus3 on 02/24/2008 07:52:10
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 18:07:56
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| I fail to see the relevance. Who cares if a team wants to trade everyone they have?? I don't see what a restriction would do to benefit the game in any way. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 18:16:40
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yeah explain what ure getting at?
Pasty |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 18:22:06
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I see what he means. Look at a team like Philadelphia. It is slightly pointless. Their leaders were not even part of the franchise last year. They bought their team, their stars will be gone before they make 30 mortgage payments on a house, the fans will forget about them in just as much time, and they will be back where they started.
Does that not slightly take the fun out of being a fan? Personally, it adds a bunch of fun but also takes away. I am divided on the issue
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 20:12:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
I see what he means. Look at a team like Philadelphia. It is slightly pointless. Their leaders were not even part of the franchise last year. They bought their team, their stars will be gone before they make 30 mortgage payments on a house, the fans will forget about them in just as much time, and they will be back where they started.
Does that not slightly take the fun out of being a fan? Personally, it adds a bunch of fun but also takes away. I am divided on the issue
Habs get number 25 this year
i forget who it was but in his media address when he was appointed GM of vancover i think,,, he said "i'm looking forward to building the kind of team here that the new york rangers can buy"
Pasty |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 21:08:48
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no anytime before the deadline people should be able to trade any amount of times they want
-Red Wings GM
Leafsfan_94
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 06:28:10
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There are enough rules as it is, why add more because a fan or two may not be happy with their team.
The salary cap is a control for the teams, how they get their players is up to them. If a player stays one, two or ten years why does it matter?
if trade limits are added then why not players over 30 years of age limit, players under 20 limit, half the team has to be left handed, only certain amount of Canadian, European, American, or a max on UFA. RFA, undrafted players, etc. It could get silly, and there may be a reason, but how does it effect hockey as a whole???
[img]http://www.maldesigns.ca/top%2050%20since%201967%20banner.jpg[/img] |
Edited by - PuckNuts on 02/22/2008 06:43:56 |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 06:50:04
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I see the point though, it gets somewhat ridiculous when players are flying around from team to team. As much as Ottawa has done a pretty good job of keeping the same group of guys (which is probably hard when you have a top line with a potential of 100+ points each!) imagine how poor Corvo and Eaves feel, being part of the team when things were bad, and now shipped off to Southern USA. Now, obviously business is business, and I have no problems with that trade. But the rental players are ridiculous, the one year stocking up (cough cough Rangers cough cough Philadelphia) is ridiculous, and the dime a dozen blockbuster deals are the worst of all.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 07:29:23
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Mike Gartner was traded to Toronto, and The New York Rangers won the cup that season. Gartner finished his career without a cup...
The GM builds the team the way he wants to, if a player does not want to be traded then he should ask for a NTC, but I can see that they will be hard to come by in the future...
What is the big deal if a team trades all their players, or decides not to trade any players? Why are players moving from team to team an actual problem? Or is it just something someone does not like?
The NHL needs to incorporate rules to solve actual problems, not likes or dislikes...
[img]http://www.maldesigns.ca/top%2050%20since%201967%20banner.jpg[/img] |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 07:37:41
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This particular problem may not be a subjective one, but look for instance, at the dilema in Pittsbrugh which I posted about in the ''Malkin Stepping it Up'' forum
''This, in my opinion, is the fault in the system known as the salary cap. I think teams should not able to buy talent, no siree. But when a team drafts young stars as a compensation for years of bad luck, and has to get rid of them before they even reach mid twenties, it's a big problem. Pittsburgh deserves to keep Sidney, Malkin, Letang, Staal, Armstrong, Christensen, Fleury... and they might not. Whereas a team like their arch rival Philly is just buying talent every year and it's ok.
There should be a way to work around this problem. We missed a whole year of hockey, they could at least have gotten the formula right!''
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3525
Habs get number 25 this year |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 08:40:45
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But what is the problem? You are stating a result of a GM's choices.
You have a choice as a GM to trade, draft, sign UFAs, sign RFAs, pick up waived players etc. Why should there be a limit on trades?
If you drafted a team, and they all become RFAs at the same time then you did not do your job as a GM...
How many teams have bought their players, and won the Stanley Cup? You mention Philadelphia, but I do not see a cup as of yet....
[img]http://www.maldesigns.ca/top%2050%20since%201967%20banner.jpg[/img] |
Edited by - PuckNuts on 02/22/2008 08:43:00 |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 09:49:56
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You can't tell me that it is your fault for drafting Malkin and Crosby and not being able to afford them.
You're right Philly never one, but yet, they went from last to I believe seventh at the moment. By buying teams.
It doesnt bother me so much other than under the same salary cap, Steel Town can't keep its talent from within it's system, whle Broad Street can just wipe out the roster and buy a new one!
Habs get number 25 this year |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 09:57:48
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Again I do not see the problem.
All the GM's had choices to make, they made the choices based on how they felt the best way is to build a winner.
Just think of this down the road, if a team is limited to the players they can trade, and they have all their draft choices, are at the limit in trades, and then they have a UFA come up, they have to let him go at the end of the season for nothing...
That would really help the teams that drafted in the future...
[img]http://www.maldesigns.ca/top%2050%20since%201967%20banner.jpg[/img] |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 11:33:09
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A team has the right to put what ever product on the ice that they feel fit. If that means "buying" the whole team, they have that right.
It's like any other business, you get the best people you possibly can in your organization.
Sport is no different nor should it be regulated. It's not like the government tells GM that they can only hire 5 new Vice President's a year. It's no one business who or how many people GM hires.
Hockey is and should remain the same way. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 13:27:16
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You have a player in Crosby, who many consider as the top player in the game and have him locked in for number of years.
You have Malkin, who is proving himself to be a top 10 offensive player in the league and, if he reaches a top 5 in scoring finish this year and next, will be looking for Ovechkin type money.
What do the Pens do??? Can they afford both?? If they can't, what are the other options??
Frankly, if I was the GM of Pitt, I would be quitely shopping Malkin and Crosby next season. If there is an interested team that is willing to sell the farm to get their hands on one of them, I would possibly do a sign and trade with Malkin.
or
Even though Crosby is the face of the franchise, his value on the market today is literally the highest it can be. Pitt could potentially find a Lindros to Philly type deal using Crosby and set up their franchise for Cup runs for years to come.
At the end of the day, the situation in PItt is no different than any other business. The success of any organization is based of their ability to leverage their assest for the best possible growth and profit. Seeing how Pitt has the most sought after asset in the hockey business, they can leverage it properly and grow. Or, they don't leverage it properly and fail. I am not saying that they must trade Crosby. All I am saying is that they have the option to utilize him various ways.
And, any restriction on number of trades would limit a teams ability to leverage their assets. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 13:40:09
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And how exactly are they supposed to keep the handful of guys they get in return for Crosby or Malkin under the salary cap? If you tell me they are worth less money wise than Crosby / Malkin, then they are getting worse players. If you persist and tell me they are of equal value, why would any GM do this trade? The pieces dont fit to favour the Penguins retaining their assets
Habs get number 25 this year |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 14:39:35
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This topic is about whether there should be a limit on the amount of trades that you are allowed to make in a season.
Although Pittsburgh has a dilemma they are not the first team, and they will not be the last. Tampa Bay has the same dilemma, and other teans are going to follow in the next few seasons.
Therefore limiting the number of trades will cause a major problem in the future, for those teams that have players like Malkin, and Crosby if the trades were limited what could they do?
You trade for future considerations, and hope by the time Crosby is past his prime you have another young prospect to take his place...
[img]http://www.maldesigns.ca/top%2050%20since%201967%20banner.jpg[/img] |
Edited by - PuckNuts on 02/22/2008 14:41:53 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 14:43:35
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Of course they would be less money. That's the point. More players at a lower dollar value. I would suggest that Crosby on the open market today could fetch a top 3 forward, a top 6 forward, a top 2 defenseman, picks and prospects. That just added 3 huge pieces to the puzzle, added future potential with pick and prospects, and really makes the Pitt team better overall. And you still have a top 10 scoring forward in the league in Malkin.
And sure, you payroll might be up a bit after that as I think it would be really tough to have 2 top tier forwards and a top tier defenseman for $9 million a year. But so what?? Pitt could potentially pay their top to players in the neighbourhood of $20 million or pay 4 players $22-24 million.
And the nature of the business is what it is. Few teams can keep their teams together. It's just as fair for Pitt as it is for any other team and restricting trades would hurt that, not help it. If you restrict teams of their trades, they could potentially have a UFA walk away with nothing in return because they could not trade him before his contract was up.
And who said the top paid players are the best players??? Hmm, top 5 highest paid guys in the league are Vanek, Briere, Gomez, Jagr, and Timonen. I can think of many players in the league that I would consider "better" than these guys who get paid a hell of a lot less! The value of a players salary is not a reflection of the players ability. Look at Brian McCabe for a perfect example of that.
Your arguement that it is unfair to Pittsburgh for having Malkin and Crosby has nothing to do with trades.
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leafs all the way
Top Prospect
Canada
6 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 08:08:22
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| Hi everyone I personally am cross because like someone said the FLyers practilly started a new team but they were crap before but no i do not believe there should be a limit on how many player you are able to trade but the money you can use I think should have a limit |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 11:27:20
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quote:
Originally posted by leafs all the way
Hi everyone I personally am cross because like someone said the FLyers practilly started a new team but they were crap before but no i do not believe there should be a limit on how many player you are able to trade but the money you can use I think should have a limit
There is a limit. It's called the salary cap!! |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 07:13:59
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Alex, what's wrong with what Philiadelphia was doing? Being a UFA means that you have a decision about where you want to go. Building a new team is the point o fht egame, otherwise, the GMs wouldn't be there.
Also, about the comment on Crosby and Malkin, if they don't have cap room to keep them, they won't. If they want them to stay in Pittburgh so badly, then they can shop some players to make room. They don't have the right to keep either of them if they can't pay them, end of story.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 12:49:44
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I'm sure we can all agree the salary cap was instituted, practically speaking, for two reasons
A) Owners were fed up of dishing out big bucks to remain competitve
B) Try to balance the talent
(Correct me if I am wrong.)
Obviously, the big problem was the first one and that is what resulted in the lockout.
But still, don't you see a problem when the very salary cap that was supposed to rectify a problem that, for argument's sake, the New York Rangers were benifitting from at the hands of the Phoenix Coyotes, is now causing a problem for a team like Pittsburgh, again for arguments sake, at the hands of Philadelhpia?
Now, sure Philly is not winning. But the point is, they are doing what a lot of people wanted to avoid, regardless of results. Meanwhile, a team like Pittsburgh, who waited long and hard after the 1991 1992 cups to rebuild, who has finally reached that stage, might get it snatched away before it is realized, when they are a team following not only the letter of the law but the spirit as well.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Trade Restriction 
