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Guest2285
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 Posted - 03/17/2008 : 11:41:55
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Poll Question:
Who do you think is the best stickhandler out of these people!
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Guest2285
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Posted - 03/17/2008 : 12:36:01
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| Stupid Poll GUEST 2285. |
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shinnyafterschool
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
375 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 15:40:16
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well, I've only really watched Hejduk and Forsberg play, I gave my vote to Forsberg.
"Desire is the most important factor in the success of any athlete. " |
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Devils Fanatic
Top Prospect
Canada
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 15:51:28
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I'm going to be a ass and say Marty Brodeur just for the heck of it.
Devils fan for life |
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Guest9217
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Posted - 03/17/2008 : 17:03:51
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| I have been a hockey fan for around thirty years and there is no question that there has never been a better stickhandler than Kyle Wellwood of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's obviously hurt this year but last year he did magical things every time he touched the puck that either led to a goal, a scoring chance or a penalty. He had the best points per minute by a long shot (even better than Crosby and Ovechkin. He could slow the game down to the point where it looked like slow-motion and nobody had a clue as to what he was going to do next. I am extremely happy that there is a player with this amount of finesse in the league. I just wish he wasn't hurt and I hope he gets better and we get to see more of his magic. |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 17:10:51
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i wouldnt say its a stupid poll but stupid people in the pool
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2285
Stupid Poll GUEST 2285.
Leafsfan_94
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Guest4287
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Posted - 03/17/2008 : 17:29:45
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| I say Kovalev... they guy can spin on a dime and makes people look bad |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 17:51:47
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| Kovalev or Gagner definitely |
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leafs all the way
Top Prospect
Canada
6 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 18:04:21
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| are we forgeting about datsuyk and st.louis and spezza like i think this is a great pool just terrible players to pick from |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 05:06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9217
I have been a hockey fan for around thirty years and there is no question that there has never been a better stickhandler than Kyle Wellwood of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Kyle Wellwood? He is one of the laziest players i've seen!
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 07:14:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9217
He could slow the game down to the point where it looked like slow-motion and nobody had a clue as to what he was going to do next.
That's because even HE didn't know what he was going to do next....Sorry guest, but after watching 30 years of hockey, Wellwood is the best stickhandler you could come up with? Did you even watch Gretzky or Mario play? |
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Guest9323
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Posted - 03/18/2008 : 10:13:50
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| I have to agree with guest9217, I#8217;m not sure what#8217;s wrong with him this year, hopefully he#8217;ll be fully recovered next year, but Wellwood is (or WAS) crafty, shifty, and uses off-speed stick-work to fool opponents like nobody I#8217;ve ever seen. Additionally, it is absolutely impossible for opponents to figure which way he#8217;ll go, he has a knack for tricking them into going the wrong way almost every time. Even Don Cherry said last year (after I had been insisting this since seeing Wellwood in a few games the year before) that Wellwood is probably the most brilliant player in the league! As for your criticisms I#8217;m not sure if he#8217;s lazy or not but that has nothing to do with his ability to stickhandle (especially this year, I don#8217;t think he has full mobility). Also, I#8217;m not comparing his hockey talents to Gretzky or Lemieux, but they were not particularly known for their stickhandling though Lemieux was decent. It was their other talents that made them so good. When it comes to stickhandling he#8217;s better and there is no comparison with those two, you would have done better to compare with St. Louis or Datsyuk or Kovalev or Ovechkin or Spezza or Sam Gagner maybe (I haven#8217;t seen too much of him). And to address the other criticism about Wellwood not knowing what he was going to do next, why should he? It#8217;s all about how the opponent is attacking, it is at this point that he decides. (And perhaps he is SO shifty that at times he may deke himself out (HAHA)). The year he spent in the AHL he was scoring goals that were shown on the major sports networks almost every night. Do some research and enjoy! |
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Guest9323
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Posted - 03/18/2008 : 13:46:58
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| Please disregard the previous post as there are bizarre errors. I have to agree with guest9217, I'm not sure what's wrong with Wellwood this year, hopefully he'll be fully recovered next year, but he is (or WAS) crafty, shifty, and uses off-speed stick-work and body positioning to fool opponents like nobody I've ever seen. Additionally, it is absolutely impossible for opponents to figure which way he'll go, he has a knack for tricking them into going the wrong way almost every time with his body positioning and shifting momentum. Even Don Cherry said last year (after I had been insisting this since seeing Wellwood in a few games the year before) that Wellwood is probably the most brilliant player in the league! As for your criticisms I'm not sure if he's lazy or not but that has nothing to do with his ability to stickhandle (especially this year, I don't think he has full mobility). Also, I'm not comparing his hockey talents to Gretzky or Lemieux, but they were not particularly known for their stickhandling though Lemieux was decent. It was their other talents that made them so good. When it comes to stickhandling Wellwood is better and there is no comparison with those two. You would have done better to compare him with St. Louis or Datsyuk or Kovalev or Ovechkin or Spezza or Sam Gagner maybe (I haven't seen too much of him). And to address the other criticism about Wellwood not knowing what he was going to do next, why should he? It's all about how the opponent is attacking, it is at this point that he decides. (And perhaps he is SO shifty that at times he may deke himself out (HAHA)). The year he spent in the AHL he was scoring goals that were shown on the major sports networks almost every night. Do some research and enjoy! |
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bertrand19
Top Prospect
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 14:23:10
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to start Wellwood is the definition of a lazy player!
I would have to agree with Kovalev, even Spezza.
What about Rick Nash though, he is friggen awesome |
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Guest9323
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Posted - 03/18/2008 : 14:52:41
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| Again,laziness has no bearing on wether a guy can stickhandle. Only how much or often he might decide to do so. (And again I think it's because he's not playiing with full mobility, last year he was doing several magical things a game.) You people need to focus. |
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Guest9323
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Posted - 03/18/2008 : 16:17:59
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| And lazy? Kovalev plays when HE wants to. He seems to want to play a little more often this year but give me a break! And Spezza doesn't have the greatest work ethic either. WOW! |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 08:06:23
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| I think everybody is right regarding Wellwood. He is nifty, lazy, exciting, disinterested, magical, slow and dynamic. You never know which Wellwood is going to show up from shift to shift. He has been looking a little more like himself in the last few games but everytime he does something unusual and somewhat spectacular then he will turn around the next shift and turn the puck over in the neutral zone or do something totally detrimental to his team. He must be a coach's nightmare. I have never seen a more Jeckle and Hyde type player in my life? |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 08:11:06
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| The Topic..........One guy that wasn't mentioned and is one of my favourite players to watch handle the puck is Michael Nylander. This guy is simply slipperly good and his loss to the Rangers has really had an impact on Jagr's production this year. It is too bad he has a problem checking his baggage. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 08:57:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
I think everybody is right regarding Wellwood. He is nifty, lazy, exciting, disinterested, magical, slow and dynamic. You never know which Wellwood is going to show up from shift to shift. He has been looking a little more like himself in the last few games but everytime he does something unusual and somewhat spectacular then he will turn around the next shift and turn the puck over in the neutral zone or do something totally detrimental to his team. He must be a coach's nightmare. I have never seen a more Jeckle and Hyde type player in my life?
Well said Antroman! Completely agree with you!
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 11:28:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9323
Please disregard the previous post as there are bizarre errors. I have to agree with guest9217, I'm not sure what's wrong with Wellwood this year, hopefully he'll be fully recovered next year, but he is (or WAS) crafty, shifty, and uses off-speed stick-work and body positioning to fool opponents like nobody I've ever seen. Additionally, it is absolutely impossible for opponents to figure which way he'll go, he has a knack for tricking them into going the wrong way almost every time with his body positioning and shifting momentum. Even Don Cherry said last year (after I had been insisting this since seeing Wellwood in a few games the year before) that Wellwood is probably the most brilliant player in the league! As for your criticisms I'm not sure if he's lazy or not but that has nothing to do with his ability to stickhandle (especially this year, I don't think he has full mobility). Also, I'm not comparing his hockey talents to Gretzky or Lemieux, but they were not particularly known for their stickhandling though Lemieux was decent. It was their other talents that made them so good. When it comes to stickhandling Wellwood is better and there is no comparison with those two. You would have done better to compare him with St. Louis or Datsyuk or Kovalev or Ovechkin or Spezza or Sam Gagner maybe (I haven't seen too much of him). And to address the other criticism about Wellwood not knowing what he was going to do next, why should he? It's all about how the opponent is attacking, it is at this point that he decides. (And perhaps he is SO shifty that at times he may deke himself out (HAHA)). The year he spent in the AHL he was scoring goals that were shown on the major sports networks almost every night. Do some research and enjoy!
Ok, maybe not Gretzky, as I believe that he was such a good skater that his stick-handling wasn't as good as his skating, but Lemieux? Come on, he made his career with his stick-handling ability!
I don't have anything personal against Wellwood, but what I do take issue with is that you say that you have watched hockey for 30 years and he is the best stickhandler you could come up with. He's only had one half-decent season and nothing more. He's no superstar....Let me throw some names at you and dare you to say that Wellwood is better than any of them....
Forsberg (in his prime)
Bure (he was the best stick-handler at high speed)
Jagr (in his prime - I think he was THE best stick-handler)
Mogilny
Fedorov (in his prime)
Hemsky (see, I am not just naming all old dudes :)
Lecavalier
Datsyuk
Gaborik
Alfredsson
LaFleur
Bossy
I would be very very surprised if you found Wellwood better than any of these guys! |
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Guest9323
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Posted - 03/19/2008 : 14:27:06
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First of all Gretzky was not #8220;such a good skater#8221;. He was merely adequate. He was not fast nor did he have great foot or leg dexterity (like Niedermayer for example). Gretzky was great because of his intelligence and vision which included where to go on the ice and where to pass the puck and generally how to lead a play. While Lemieux was great with his stick and generally a smart player, he was not tricky or shifty which I think is what makes a superior stickhandler: It is not mere good-handling of the stick that makes a good stickhandler or good dekeing ability (though these are part of it), it is doing things to the puck with your stick that fool people WHILE STILL HOLDING ON TO THE PUCK! I think part of the reason for Gretzky and Lemieux's success was because they also knew how to play a good team game, how to successfully use their teammates.
I happen to still think that Wellwood is the best stickhandler. Wellwood mesmerizes to the point that opposing players are hypnotized into watching the puck and not #8220;taking the man#8221;, (though some are catching on.) While many of the names that have been mentioned in this forum are or have been awesome or amazing (though the title is "Who IS the best stickhandler"), I firmly believe that Wellwood#8217;s shiftiness with the puck is second to none. My assessment in not about the kind of season he has or hasn't had but merely from watching him play. The forum is about stickhandling and not points. Evidently it takes more than just stickhandling to get points (last year Wellwood played with a little more interest (heart?)(and health I believe)).
I have not called him a superstar, that status is given to players that (among other things) typically exhibit more than one amazing skill (i.e. Bure who was fast and had great hands). I also believe that there are many players on outdoor rinks that have shown stickhandling ability that you just don#8217;t see much of in the NHL (or at all in some cases), unfortunately they don#8217;t have the rest of what it takes to get to the highest level of hockey (often money).
I also believe that there are probably many unknown NHLers that are probably better stickhandlers than many of those mentioned, but they may be so one-dimensional that they don't get much ice-time and thus exposure.
Great topic!!!
Love to hear more! |
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mytor4
Rookie
Canada
134 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 14:46:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9217
I have been a hockey fan for around thirty years and there is no question that there has never been a better stickhandler than Kyle Wellwood of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's obviously hurt this year but last year he did magical things every time he touched the puck that either led to a goal, a scoring chance or a penalty. He had the best points per minute by a long shot (even better than Crosby and Ovechkin. He could slow the game down to the point where it looked like slow-motion and nobody had a clue as to what he was going to do next. I am extremely happy that there is a player with this amount of finesse in the league. I just wish he wasn't hurt and I hope he gets better and we get to see more of his magic.
i have watched hockey also for 30 yrs plus and i could name 5 players that could stick handle better than wellwood just from the habs. imagine if i did the whole league . the five G.Lafleur,P.Mahovlich,A.Kovalev,P.Larouche and P.Mondou. all five of these players were better stickhandlers than wellwood.just from the habs from the rest of the league i could name at least another 20.
sweet dreams
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs |
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Guest9655
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Posted - 03/19/2008 : 14:48:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9323
It is not mere good-handling of the stick that makes a good stickhandler or good dekeing ability (though these are part of it), it is doing things to the puck with your stick that fool people WHILE STILL HOLDING ON TO THE PUCK!
This just screams "contradiction". |
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Guest9323
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Posted - 03/19/2008 : 15:39:38
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| Sorry habs fan, it is not a contradiction, it just requires a little more extrapolation than I gave you credit for. And those players you mentioned are ok but don't enter the realm that Wellwood (and few others) occupies. You should watch him a little more closely (if you can keep up). |
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mytor4
Rookie
Canada
134 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 16:06:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9323
Sorry habs fan, it is not a contradiction, it just requires a little more extrapolation than I gave you credit for. And those players you mentioned are ok but don't enter the realm that Wellwood (and few others) occupies. You should watch him a little more closely (if you can keep up).
these players G.Lafleur,P.Mahovlich,A.Kovalev,P.Larouche and P.Mondou not only enter wellwoods realm but totally surpass him on stickhandling.
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs |
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GoOilGo
Top Prospect
Canada
42 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 16:48:10
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| I think that Datsyuk or Gagner has the best hands in the league. See Gagners shootout goal and then Datsyuk does like toe drags and all this crap thats hard to do. |
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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2008 : 11:26:34
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I'm sorry, but if you are the "best stick-handler" then you better produce points to justify such a title. Has Wellwood ever come close to any of the guys I mentioned? No. Will he ever come close to those guys? That is a matter of opinion and only time will tell, but my gut tells me that Wellwood will be a mediocre 20-30 goal scorer his whole career. If you are the best stickhandler then you should be able to do it consistently almost every night!
How much closer do I have to watch this guy? I mean, did I miss him everytime when I blinked or something? Is his nickname "Pokaroo"? "Darn! I missed him again!"
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Guest9323
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Posted - 03/20/2008 : 19:41:34
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quote:
Originally posted by SuperSakic
I'm sorry, but if you are the "best stick-handler" then you better produce points to justify such a title.
If you are the best stickhandler then you should be able to do it consistently almost every night!"
You should read the other posts. Just because someone is the best stickhandler doesn't mean he should put up points, just as the guy with the hardest shot or the best accuracy or the fastest skater is not going to be the most successful at getting points. Success often depends on having more than one talent no matter how amazing that one talent is. In other words, just because he is the best stickhandler doesn't mean he should be getting points like a superstar (though I'm sure one day he will because he is a great passer and posesses good vision). By your logic, some of the shinny players I've played with on the outdoor rinks should be superstars in the NHL, because, as I've said before, some of these guys are better stickhandlers than anyone I've ever seen in the NHL, except maybe Wellwood.
Also, Wellwood typically does "do it consistently almost every night". Last year his wizardry was on display every time he touched the puck, this year it's only a few times a game (he does seem a little tentative and is afraid of getting hit - a problem in the NHL), but even though his injury has slowed him down from last year's pace, he is still mesmerizing. In any case, Wellwood was almost a point-a-game player last year which, in most people's estimation, is at least star numbers. Also, last year he had the best points-per-minutes-played, better than Crosby, Ovechkin, everyone. Those are some telling stats.
TIme will tell. Meanwhile enjoy his hypnotic moves, they ARE the best in the biz. |
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mytor4
Rookie
Canada
134 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2008 : 19:50:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9323
quote:
Originally posted by SuperSakic
I'm sorry, but if you are the "best stick-handler" then you better produce points to justify such a title.
If you are the best stickhandler then you should be able to do it consistently almost every night!"
You should read the other posts. Just because someone is the best stickhandler doesn't mean he should put up points, just as the guy with the hardest shot or the best accuracy or the fastest skater is not going to be the most successful at getting points. Success often depends on having more than one talent no matter how amazing that one talent is. In other words, just because he is the best stickhandler doesn't mean he should be getting points like a superstar (though I'm sure one day he will because he is a great passer and posesses good vision). By your logic, some of the shinny players I've played with on the outdoor rinks should be superstars in the NHL, because, as I've said before, some of these guys are better stickhandlers than anyone I've ever seen in the NHL, except maybe Wellwood.
Also, Wellwood typically does "do it consistently almost every night". Last year his wizardry was on display every time he touched the puck, this year it's only a few times a game (he does seem a little tentative and is afraid of getting hit - a problem in the NHL), but even though his injury has slowed him down from last year's pace, he is still mesmerizing. In any case, Wellwood was almost a point-a-game player last year which, in most people's estimation, is at least star numbers. Also, last year he had the best points-per-minutes-played, better than Crosby, Ovechkin, everyone. Those are some telling stats.
TIme will tell. Meanwhile enjoy his hypnotic moves, they ARE the best in the biz.
the best in the biz. only in your eyes
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs |
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Guest6086
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Posted - 03/21/2008 : 10:30:48
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| Kovalev ftw |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 03/21/2008 : 11:03:06
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| ryan shannon see how he spanked the oilers d last night and khaby in the shootout |
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Topic |
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Who is the best stickhandler!! 
