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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
 Posted - 03/27/2008 : 17:49:22
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Edited by - Pasty7 on 03/27/2008 17:51:45
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 18:21:27
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I think his stats and on ice achievments speak for themselves. There is absolutly no way the greatest goalie to ever play the game should not have his number retired. So what if his off ice comportment sucks hes a nhl great!
Pasty |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 18:36:18
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Couldn't respect the coach. No doubt he was great. Retire 33 in Denver. Montreal demands a little bit more than what Patrick did in order to retire a number.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 18:46:54
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quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
Couldn't respect the coach. No doubt he was great. Retire 33 in Denver. Montreal demands a little bit more than what Patrick did in order to retire a number.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009.
hmmmm he didn't do enough in mtl to get his number retired?? hopfully in your opinion noones number should be retired in montreal?
Pasty |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 19:06:15
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| he won 2 cups and asked to be traded .... henri richard won 11 ... thats what he means |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 19:26:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Axey
he won 2 cups and asked to be traded .... henri richard won 11 ... thats what he means
we're talking about an different era you can't compare on number of cups and look at the circumstances around why he was traded maybe if the head coach with a known grudge against Roy hadn't left him in a game for 9 goals,,, a game he said he wasn't feeling up to playing in and trembly i quote replied "you're the superstar get in there" i admitt roy is the farthest thign from a class act but he is up there with the Richard's, Lafleurs and any other great Montreal Canadien
Pasty |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 19:48:12
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| he deserves to get the jersey retired just not in montreal |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 21:54:19
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| After that performance Roy and Roy Jr. put on in the ding dong province the other day, the only thing that should be retired is himself. |
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MarkhamMax
Rookie
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 23:15:13
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Roy should absolutely be recognized for his performance with the Habs. Using a singular coaching incident as a basis for declining to retire his jersey is ridiculous.
As to whether winning two cups merits his jersey being retired - well let that question stand on it's own. I think he carried a mediocre Montreal team to the final twice. Is that grounds for jersey retirement? You decide. |
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mytor4
Rookie
Canada
134 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 03:39:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Axey
he won 2 cups and asked to be traded .... henri richard won 11 ... thats what he means
point is roy actually won those two cups. most knowledgable hockey people will tell you replace roy with any other goalie at that time the habs win 0 cups. without henri the habs still win some of those cups. thats the difference. roys number should be retired with the habs.he's the players that stole two cups for the habs.
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 09:51:02
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| Honoring a player's career and retiring his jersey number is a decision that is based not only on his playing ability and what he did on the ice but also weather the player can be construed as an upstanding person and an all round credit to the organization and it's loyal fans. One only has to look at the other numbers in the rafters and you quickly realize that Patrick Roy can not compete favourably with any of them in the catagories that I have mentioned above. One has to assume that the people most impressed and affected by retired and displayed numbers are our youngest fans and Roy has been less than an exemplary example of someone you would want your children to look up to. One only has to look at his behavior last week while coaching the junior league to understand why this person should never be considered in having his number hanging along side other great and upstanding players such as the consomate great player and gentleman like a Jean Beliveau for instance. Patrick couln't even tie the skate laces of this man both on or off the ice. Two Stanley Cups? If they retired every number that has ever won two Cups with the Habs they would be numbering in the hundreds. As high as the pedestal is that some of you have put Patrick Roy on, I cant see anyone really thinking that #33 belongs with all the really great Canadiens in the rafters who are the denizens of their self called glorious past. |
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Devils Fanatic
Top Prospect
Canada
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 10:17:03
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I have mixed feeling on this one. He was a great player no doubt. It was his piss poor attitude on and off the ice I hated. Not to mention he decided to leave because of one lousy game
Devils fan for life |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 10:45:49
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| Devil's Fanatic, I don't take anything away from a very good Hab career but it is not, in my opinion, deserving of a sweater number retiring. His off ice behavior just caps my opinion for me. |
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Guest7865
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Posted - 03/28/2008 : 11:04:41
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I too have mixed feelings about this topic. Personally, I absolutely do not believe that Patrick Roy was the greatest goalie of all time. He was a great goaltender - Yes - But the greatest? I believe that much stronger cases can be built for Dryden and the ever brilliant Brodeur. Dryden accomplished more in half the time that Roy did. And, Brodeur - well, what more need be said. When he's finished he'll have every record in the book. (At least the really important ones.)
I think his number should be retired in Montreal for sure. Colorado? Hmm, maybe. He only played a short time there though. And yes I know, he accomplished a lot. Fair enough.
Personally, I don't think his personal affairs should really have a significant impact on the retiring of his number, nor should the incident in Montreal during the Detroit vs. Montreal game. Someone commented previously that he won those 2 Stanley Cups for Montreal and he's absolutely right. Without Roy, there would be no cup in 86 and 93. I don't know if you could make the same case for Colorado, but definitely Montreal. |
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Guest4469
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Posted - 03/28/2008 : 11:06:16
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I mean it was already touched upon...does 33 merit being retired in general or does it merit being retired with Montreal?
In general, yes of course, Fisher is a dolt if he thinks Roy's number does not merit being retired at all. With Montreal, maybe not. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 18:53:21
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The two most surprising and least talented Cup winning teams of the last 40 years are the 1986 Habs and the 1993 Habs. Patrick Roy delivered those Cups to Montreal. Think about it. These spoiled Habs fans who are whining about a 15 year drought now. Well guys, without Patrick Roy, your precious Habs would be on a 29 year Cup drought!
Was the guy sometimes a prick? Yes
Was the guy sometimes a very good guy? Yes (remember Greg Smith talking about the most sportsmanlike thing he ever saw)
Sounds like a human too me.
I can understand why people don't like him though. And I can even buy the argument that you have to look at things outside of on-ice accomplishments before retiring the jersey. But if you were to weigh the two things on scales, well the contribution to Montreal side would far outweigh the off-ice stuff. I mean, some of you guys are making it sound like that contribution wasn't tremendously noteworthy. To me it was not only tremendously noteworthy, but it was even more impressive than Dryden's contribution (side note - Dryden's numbers are deceiving as he retired before that Montreal team started to slip a little). But lets face it, Kenny sat behind one of the best teams ever (in my opinion, THE best) with a trio of absolutely amaizing defencemen. He was a very good goalie yes, but he was basically given Heaven. He is the "anti-Brad Park", meaning Brad was in the wrong place at the wrong time, while Kenny was in the right place at the right time.
Roy had some good players, but comparing the teams - well, I think it is fair to say that the Montreal teams in front of Dryden were at least 3 times as strong as the teams in front of Roy. Even Kenny's 1971 underdog team was at least a couple steps up on Patrick's teams (though I admit Kenny won that Cup for the Habs).
Anyway, Montreal fans show their greedy arrogance to me here with their attitude towards Roy. I certainly can understand not liking him, but you guys (many of you anyway) basically just take for granted what he delivered to you. Let's put it this way. In my opinion a Montreal fan is totally delusional if he or she in any way denies the following sentence:
I OWE PATRICK ROY BIG-TIME FOR THE LAST TWO TIMES I CELEBRATED CUP VICTORIES
You guys. You win the Cup while Boston, Toronto, Chicago... fans suffer and then you bash the guy that gave it to you. Arrogance!
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Edited by - andyhack on 03/28/2008 18:56:01 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 21:08:05
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To add to Andyhack's very strong arguement (which I agree with completely, wierd) I have to ask about this "off-ice" thing.Seriously, can any one single person bring up a situation that occured while Roy was in Montreal as an example of this poor off ice behavior. Realistically, there was one single situation that occured on or off the ice that everyone still talks about, and that was when he said he would not play there again. That is it. Even this article that Red Fisher wrote did not talk about a single other incident in Montreal. Only afterwards. And, most if not all of those things should have been private.
Since that night in 95 he has openly stated that the way he handled the situation was a mistake that he regrets. He has also never done or said anything to tarnish the Habs image in any way. Every interview I have ever heard with Roy he has had nothing but good things to say about the Habs.
So, realistically, these so call "off the ice" situations break down to a single event that he has openly regreted and what has happened after he left the Habs, which has no relationship to the Habs in any way, shape, or form. And this past situation with his Son has nothing to do with this at all.
The one part of Andy's arguement I disagree with is that it is Arrogance of the fans. It's not. It's complete and utter ignorance. I would seriously be embarassed to be a Habs fan reading the post.
How about that great number 10 hanging in the rafters?? If you don't think that Roy should be in, you better also have something to say about LeFleur who was indicted for lying in court and protecting his fellon of a son.
If not, it's not only an ignorant view, but also hipocritical.
Let me know climb down from my soapbox |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 22:05:46
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markham, andy and beans,,,, all i can say is thank you ,, i couldn;t find the words to prove my point an you guys did for me,, the fact that roy has to prove himself like this yet again is just sad the man was a god in between the post and brought so much success to the habs i cant believe they would even consider not honoring him!
Pasty |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 23:00:50
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| I wish I were younger like you fellows and could remember all these stats that you keep coming up with. I only remember incidences such as Roy being arrested in the middle of the night for spousal abuse and kicking in the doors of his house in a drunken rage. I believe off ice behavior is certainly relative as to weather someone has their number retired. I think sometimes when you worship somebody you only see the Patrick Roy stopping the puck in the '93 playoffs instead of the pouty little suck that quit on his team or the guy sending his also retarded sibling down the ice to beat on an opposing player that had no inclination to scrap. How about the grandstanding instances with the catching hand and the throwing the puck in his own net while doing one of those.....no class! This guy is not someone who I would point my finger toward the rafters and say to my son what a great Hab this guy was. People have their sweaters retired because they were not only excellent players but were leaders by example on and off the ice. This guy is not fit to sit on the same plateau with other greats in Hab history. Could you imagine a scrap book of great #33 photos.......first page Patrick making one of his great over extended glove saves while winking at his opponent.......Second page, Patrick standing on a busted down door decking his wife with a mean right cross to the kisser......Third page........Patrick stomping away from the GM of the great Habitants while in the process of crapping on the whole organization whom he owed his career to............Forth page, a picture of Patrick dropping his newborn son on his head just to make sure he is brought up to be the heartless goon goalie that his dad wants him to be...........Page five, Patrick sitting haggard and alone wondering what he had ever done wrong to deserve not having his number retired along with the others before him. DAH DAH DAH. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2008 : 04:28:02
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Antro - entertaining post as always
But here are my Saturday morning breakfast thoughts:
1. You bring up, "Roy being arrested in the middle of the night for spousal abuse and kicking in the doors of his house in a drunken rage"
- Of course, these are not good things, but they are also things that unfortunately somtimes happen with human beings. I would bet good money that a little investigation would reveal that there are some other guys whose jerseys are hanging from rafters (maybe even Habs) who have done some things similar in their lives, for which they should be ashamed. By no means am I condoning these actions. I just think you have to give them far less weight than you appear to be giving them.
2. You say, "I think sometimes when you worship somebody you only see the Patrick Roy stopping the puck in the '93 playoffs instead of the pouty little suck that quit on his team or the guy sending his also retarded sibling down the ice to beat on an opposing player that had no inclination to scrap."
- See pasty 7's and Bean's comments regarding him quitting on the team (I think people can make as much out of that incident as they like - people who tend to hate Roy exaggerate it's significance)
- As for the recent incident, it's unfortunate, and if he did indeed send his son down there, I do lose some respect for the guy. But, in this jersey question, one can lose respect for a guy and still understand that such incidents are just footnotes in the overall scheme of what should be considered.
3.You say, "How about the grandstanding instances with the catching hand and the throwing the puck in his own net while doing one of those.....no class!"
- Come on Antro - we all know that, to a certain degree, a lot of goalies are characters. I can understand you preferring a different sort of character and not liking the occasional grandstanding thing (I probably do too) but many great goalies have done this sort of thing, and anyway, there is absolutely no reason to let this very minor point enter this conversation.
4. You say "This guy is not someone who I would point my finger toward the rafters and say to my son what a great Hab this guy was. People have their sweaters retired because they were not only excellent players but were leaders by example on and off the ice."
- See my last post - when a guy was as UNBELIEVABLY excellent as Roy was (and he certainly led with his play by the way), the bad stuff has to be WAY "badder" (improper English intentional ) to tip the scales against him.
5. You say, "This guy is not fit to sit on the same plateau with other greats in Hab history."
- This is absolutely incorrect for the reasons I and others have stated. On-ice - I think he is very very high on that great list of Habs, and that really is saying something (I have deep resentment towards the Habs, yes, but I know greatness when I see it). Again, the other not always so good stuff is miniscule when put beside his contributions
The rest of your post about the scrapbook is entertaining and creative, but I think is just reflecting your exaggerated view of the guy's faults. One could put together a tremendous scrapbook of the on-ice stuff, that's for sure. Red Fisher touched on one story - the '86 playoff game against the Rangers. I always touch on the 60 plus shot Game 6 against the Bruins in '94. These are just 2 of endless stories that would fill his scrapbook
Antro - you're an interesting guy and I like your style, but your post here is like a Michael Moore documentary - entertaining, but tremendously one-sided, and edited in order to support your dislike of Roy to the point of getting us into "silliness" season.
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Edited by - andyhack on 03/29/2008 04:31:37 |
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mytor4
Rookie
Canada
134 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2008 : 05:18:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
I wish I were younger like you fellows and could remember all these stats that you keep coming up with. I only remember incidences such as Roy being arrested in the middle of the night for spousal abuse and kicking in the doors of his house in a drunken rage. I believe off ice behavior is certainly relative as to weather someone has their number retired. I think sometimes when you worship somebody you only see the Patrick Roy stopping the puck in the '93 playoffs instead of the pouty little suck that quit on his team or the guy sending his also retarded sibling down the ice to beat on an opposing player that had no inclination to scrap. How about the grandstanding instances with the catching hand and the throwing the puck in his own net while doing one of those.....no class! This guy is not someone who I would point my finger toward the rafters and say to my son what a great Hab this guy was. People have their sweaters retired because they were not only excellent players but were leaders by example on and off the ice. This guy is not fit to sit on the same plateau with other greats in Hab history. Could you imagine a scrap book of great #33 photos.......first page Patrick making one of his great over extended glove saves while winking at his opponent.......Second page, Patrick standing on a busted down door decking his wife with a mean right cross to the kisser......Third page........Patrick stomping away from the GM of the great Habitants while in the process of crapping on the whole organization whom he owed his career to............Forth page, a picture of Patrick dropping his newborn son on his head just to make sure he is brought up to be the heartless goon goalie that his dad wants him to be...........Page five, Patrick sitting haggard and alone wondering what he had ever done wrong to deserve not having his number retired along with the others before him. DAH DAH DAH.
using your logic than you must think the the great Maurice Richard should have never have got his sweater retired because of one big incident that happen during the playoffs. i mean i would't want to open a book and on it's first page have pictures of that incident plastered all over for my kids to see.Also Bobby Clarke shouldn't either than.Imagine respecting a player that intentionally goes out and breaks a leg of a player of another team with a slash just so his team could have a chance to win.And while were on Bobbys we will have to demote MR Hull with all his marriage problems and his divorice. I could go on with all the sillyness but like your post most people don't want to read this type of garbage because mostly trolls ,haters and very jealous people would come out with this crap and really believe it.it's really nice to see a leaf player that is so jealous of the great habs accomplishments that he will go to any depths to try to tarnish their reputations.
you talk about Roy quitting on his team. I think your just upset because not one player but your whole team has quit mostly on the whole season the last three yrs.
2nd I.D DManPreds11 |
Edited by - mytor4 on 03/29/2008 05:25:04 |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2008 : 07:32:00
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the man never quit on the habs ,, he quit on mario tremblay,,(Canadiens Coach at the time) For those of you who don't know the background of these two,, the first game Roy ever sat on the bench for the habs when the team was landing back home Mario Tremblay said to Roy (he was playing for the team at the time) "now go back to the zoo, you'll never be a nhl goalie" the zoo being Granby where Roy was from. (fast forard to 1995) Mario sends Roy into a game that Roy told his coach he was not feeling up to playing in,, Mario's quote again "you're the nhl superstar" then the great Tremblay left Roy in the net for nine goals!!!!!!!!!!! lets stop there for a second would any other coach leave there starting goalie in a net for more then say 4 or 5 goals inside of 40 min of play,,, no Tremblay intentionally humiliated Patrick Roy an Roy had every right the say i'm not playing for this clown anymore!! sure he said for the habs but if these guys hated eachother so much imagin everything that went on in the locker room that we haven't seen?
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2008 : 12:05:45
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Antro, you are talking about situations that happened AFTER HE LEFT THE HABS!! Not while he was there. Sure, no one can argue that Roy was a seriously wierd duck, but what does him trying to show off have to do with him having his jersey retired??
I agree with Andy's Michael Moore Analogy. Even this Article that Red Fisher wrote talked about Roy spending time after practice with the Habs to ensure that this kid would have a memory for the rest of his life of how the Great Patrick Roy could not stop his gigantic shot!
That is the kind of guy I would be proud to talk to my son about.
And no one has said anything about by Guy Lefleur question either?? |
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MarkhamMax
Rookie
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2008 : 13:46:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
And no one has said anything about by Guy Lefleur question either??
What is there to say right? He was a 'hockey hero' to many regardless of which team you may have rooted for. He was certainly an idol of mine growing up, which says a lot given that I am a lifetime Leafs fan. Lafleur's off-ice indiscretions have no bearing on his jersey being retired either. Short of absolute heinous crimes inside or outside of the arena, hockey players and other public figures should be allowed to fall and wipe themselves off again like the rest of us. To err is human.
There's also something to be said about the phrase 'don't believe the hype'. Recalling Roy's marital woes and accepting what we are told by the media 'carte blanche' (at face value) is dangerous. I'm not saying that an altercation didn't take place, but the fact is we weren't there and we will never know what actually went down.
What we do know is that Roy was never charged with anything. He knocked a door of it's hinges.
For us to police other people's private affairs, especially without any first-hand knowledge, and moreover decide how it bears on their legacy in sport is really a giant waste of energy.
"Take two pucks to the head and call me in the morning". |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2008 : 13:49:56
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quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
Montreal fans show their greedy arrogance to me here with their attitude towards Roy. I certainly can understand not liking him, but you guys (many of you anyway) basically just take for granted what he delivered to you. Let's put it this way. In my opinion a Montreal fan is totally delusional if he or she in any way denies the following sentence:
I OWE PATRICK ROY BIG-TIME FOR THE LAST TWO TIMES I CELEBRATED CUP VICTORIES
Quite possibly true, but these fans are the ones who have to live with the decisions made by the organization as to who is worthy of such an honour. In its history, the Canadiens have honoured many successful, influencial, and uber-significant players. Many have been with the team for an entire career, and I can't think of any that have behaved in a way that has caused misery or embarrassment for the team itself. I was a huge Roy fan before his defection. I obviously respect his post-Montreal achievements. Maybe one day, history will have washed away the ugliness, but not this year. Not next year. Imagine how a large faction at the Bell Centre would react at the induction ceremony. These people should be the real judges of who deserves such a prestigious honour. Somehow, this guy doesn't fit the bill.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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mytor4
Rookie
Canada
134 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2008 : 15:15:14
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quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
Montreal fans show their greedy arrogance to me here with their attitude towards Roy. I certainly can understand not liking him, but you guys (many of you anyway) basically just take for granted what he delivered to you. Let's put it this way. In my opinion a Montreal fan is totally delusional if he or she in any way denies the following sentence:
I OWE PATRICK ROY BIG-TIME FOR THE LAST TWO TIMES I CELEBRATED CUP VICTORIES
Quite possibly true, but these fans are the ones who have to live with the decisions made by the organization as to who is worthy of such an honour. In its history, the Canadiens have honoured many successful, influencial, and uber-significant players. Many have been with the team for an entire career, and I can't think of any that have behaved in a way that has caused misery or embarrassment for the team itself. I was a huge Roy fan before his defection. I obviously respect his post-Montreal achievements. Maybe one day, history will have washed away the ugliness, but not this year. Not next year. Imagine how a large faction at the Bell Centre would react at the induction ceremony. These people should be the real judges of who deserves such a prestigious honour. Somehow, this guy doesn't fit the bill.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009.
I think if the habs organization decided to retire Roy # next season you might get fooled by how many people would show up at the Bell Centre to support that decision. The hab fans that hate,dispise, do not respect and don't want his # retired i would say lay in the minorty or next to none. Most talk you hear about Roy in a bad way are mostly non-hab fans . Most hab fans from all around will back the ,Roy the Habs organization and there decision to retire his # .
2nd I.D DManPreds11 |
Edited by - mytor4 on 03/29/2008 15:20:30 |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 06:55:01
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mytor - I'm not sure what the percentage is when it comes to anti-Roy Hab fans (or just Hab fans who don't think his jersey should be retired), but it's far from less than none. The "he betrayed us" mentality has popped up from some Hab fans on this site and I know a number of Hab fans who trash him. I mean the fact that Red Fisher, who has been writing about the Habs for generations, would put out such an article both reflects a certain amount of public opinion in Montreal, and probably influences a certain amount of public opinion too.
I respect that you as a Hab fan understand how ridiculous the argument against Roy is. But your fellow Hab fans who say things like, "He shouldn't get that honor in Montreal", are just way out to lunch on this point. I actually can understand Antroman more than those guys. At least we know that he is Mr. Leaf fan, and that part of what he says probably derives there. But a Montreal fan who says things like that against Roy, is just showing their lack of appreciation to the guy who was most responsible for their last two Cups.
And Beans, you know what, it is more than "ignorance". It IS "arrogance". I mean, it's Red Fisher for crying out loud. Very knowledgable guy. Far from ignorant. And he is a great writer, yes, but he bugs me. The guy has seen Cup after Cup for fifty years. Does he want to give back the two Cups that Roy STOLE for the Habs, because he thinks Roy is such a disgrace to the organization? No, of course not. He just wants to make sure that Roy doesn't get his due credit for bringing those Cups to Montreal.
Hab fans who say no to Roy - show some humility and understand HOW lucky you and your team have been over the years, instead of trashing the guy that gave you your Cups, as if, due to Montreal's "entitlement" to Cups over cities like Toronto, Boston, Buffalo, Vancouver, Ottawa..., your team would have somehow managed to get those rings in '86 and '93 without Roy.
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Edited by - andyhack on 03/30/2008 06:57:35 |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 17:47:17
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| Hello Andy, great responses to my posts. After reading them I thought hey, I better go back and re-read my previous posts because I was starting to doubt their integrity after reading yours. Well, I re-read them and guess what........I am sticking by them almost 100%. That is my opinion and it has nothing to do with me being a Leaf supporter. I plain and simply think Patrick Roy should be excluded from having his number retired on the grounds that I fore-mentioned. I acknowledge his ability to play goal and yes, he had a large hand in the winning of two Stanley Cups but two great Cup performances and his off ice behavior does not merit a number retirement in my mostly humble opinion. What really makes me sad about all this is the fact most of this thread is made up of Hab fans offering up excuses as to why Patrick took it upon his self to do all these things? If he was truely the God that you people seem to be exalting to death then we wouldn't be bantering about this like we are....... they would just haul his sweater right on up to the roof to hang with the other truely great Canadiens, with no questions asked. Montreal has always had some classy teams and one of the reasons why they have been so classy is that their dirty laundry was mostly aired behind closed doors. This is just another reason why Patrick does not deserve to be included with the other greatest of Hab stars. |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 19:41:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
What really makes me sad about all this is the fact most of this thread is made up of Hab fans offering up excuses as to why Patrick took it upon his self to do all these things? If he was truely the God that you people seem to be exalting to death then we wouldn't be bantering about this like we are....... they would just haul his sweater right on up to the roof to hang with the other truely great Canadiens, with no questions asked. Montreal has always had some classy teams and one of the reasons why they have been so classy is that their dirty laundry was mostly aired behind closed doors. This is just another reason why Patrick does not deserve to be included with the other greatest of Hab stars.
I think you will find that the Habs' fans in this forum are the ones most against this dedication. I share your respect for the class that this organization has shown in the past. I still don't think Roy deserves this honour, but he certainly does before Mario Tremblay. They both behaved disgracefully that fateful night.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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Patchy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
529 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 20:28:18
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The thing is, you can clearly compare one man's stats to another you can't compare one's attitude to another's , it would be totally unfair to deny one of the greatest goaltenders ever the honour of having his jersey retired because some people didn't like his attitude. Who know's? -maybe the reason he was a jerk sometimes was because of his love for the game, noone is to judge that for him! I believe the numbers say it all, absolutely he should have his number retired.
~~Go Leafs Go~~ |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 21:34:49
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Hey Patchy, what exactly are these numbers that you are talking about. I wonder if they are larger than the ego of this man and weather they are so good as to be good enough to overshadow the behavior of this individual.
I just read the Red Fisher report, thanks Pasty, and there was more of this guy's inane behavior which I had mostly forgotten about. This further supports my opinion regarding Roy. There are other sane people out there that believe like I do that the retiring of a jersey number should only be given to exemplary people of the higest standard and as much as some of you think this guy is a hero or something there are others like myself that think otherwise. Of course, if his sweater number does go up then I suppose that I could take solace in the fact the once proud Canadiens have adorned the roof of their arena with the number of a self centered egotistical undeserving hero which would cheapen the status of the proud Canadiens. People can say to their kids he was a great goalie for a short while and led us to two Stanley Cups but all in all he wasn't much of a person for sure. What a wonderful role model the Habs have chosen? What we are saying is, you can spend your career being a jerk but if you win us a Cup then it is alright to be a jerk. ENOUGH SAID!!!!!!!! |
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mytor4
Rookie
Canada
134 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 22:37:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
Hey Patchy, what exactly are these numbers that you are talking about. I wonder if they are larger than the ego of this man and weather they are so good as to be good enough to overshadow the behavior of this individual.
I just read the Red Fisher report, thanks Pasty, and there was more of this guy's inane behavior which I had mostly forgotten about. This further supports my opinion regarding Roy. There are other sane people out there that believe like I do that the retiring of a jersey number should only be given to exemplary people of the higest standard and as much as some of you think this guy is a hero or something there are others like myself that think otherwise. Of course, if his sweater number does go up then I suppose that I could take solace in the fact the once proud Canadiens have adorned the roof of their arena with the number of a self centered egotistical undeserving hero which would cheapen the status of the proud Canadiens. People can say to their kids he was a great goalie for a short while and led us to two Stanley Cups but all in all he wasn't much of a person for sure. What a wonderful role model the Habs have chosen? What we are saying is, you can spend your career being a jerk but if you win us a Cup then it is alright to be a jerk. ENOUGH SAID!!!!!!!!
Don't bring up the subject about proud Canadians. There are a lot of Canadians that are not proud ,For instance Leaf fans. How can anybody be considered a proud Canadian and be a Leaf fan at the same time.No true proud Canadian in there right mind would be a Leaf fan ,Now come on get with the program.
The Toronto Sad Sacks miss the playoffs again. Life can't get any better. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 15:42:04
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Interesting opinion above. Too bad it has nothing to do with Patrick Roy and retiring his jersey. Please stay on topic.
Antro, quick question. I think it is more than fair to say that most if not all of Roy's so called off ice activities happened after he left the Habs. So, let's look at this hypothetically for a second.
If Roy would have retired in 95 after the episode with Trembley, and Montreal retired his jersey in say, 1997. Then, Roy came back to play with Colorado and partake in these off ice antics then, would you think his jersey should be removed from the rafters?? |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2008 : 22:50:51
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| Hey Beans, his problems occured throughout his career. It is still the same guy who's sweater they want to retire? The man just leaves a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. If it doesn't bother the Mtl faithful then by all means hang it up there. What else can I say, he had a great on ice part career with the Habs and won two Cups? |
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Number 33 fit to be retired? 
