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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
 Posted - 10/26/2008 : 13:06:25
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Alex I am beginning to think your a little skewed with your view of the game and of Luke Schenn. He is not a superstar yet and may never be but he is best thing to happen to Leaf nation since Wendel Clark. Its exciting to see a young guy like Schenn perform so well in T.O., the graveyard of young Dmen. It is also exciting to see a 18 yr old stick up for his teamates. It is one of those things in hockey that keeps players within the unwritten rules. I must say he did fairly well against Neil who has over 100 scraps under his belt. Not surprising enough though Neil turned down Mayers for a scrap later because Neil rarely fights someone in his own class.
I say Kudos to Schenn, it didn't cost the leafs the game, if anything he had made the rest of the team take a look at themselves and say look at what this kid is doing for us!!
So Luke drop em again if you have to and keep giving Leaf nation something to cheer about. |
Edited by - Porkchop73 on 10/26/2008 13:07:56 |
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Guest8815
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Posted - 10/26/2008 : 13:23:35
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| Things like this are starting to worry me about the future of our game. Soon we'll have to call it Hoccer if we can't handle as little of thing as some kid dropping the gloves. You guys need to stop babying the players and let them make up their minds. If they fight, or if they don't, it's up to them. They don't need anyone to make up their mind. And on another note, when i see a star fighting, I don't go "Oh no, he shouldn't do that." I say "Atta boy". For example, Jarome Iginla, the guy does it all, he grinds, he scores, he dangles, he fights, you name it, he's the definition of how hockey should be played. Because the fact of the matter is, it's hockey, which you need to be tough to play. If you can't handle being pushed around, you shouldn't be playing this sport. So everyone should man up, just like Schenn did and watch some hockey. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2008 : 22:13:17
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1: He is not a superstar, not yet and 2: I think when you see a superstar or a none fighter sticking up for his teamates, I think it shows the other players on the team your really playing for the name on the front and not the one on the back and that even though your a skill player and not a checker your willing to stick up for your teamates.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Guest7244
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Posted - 10/26/2008 : 22:52:53
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| Leaf fan right here and first off i dont feel like schenn is god, or will be the best defenseman in the league, but i do think he will excel into a talented player. He can fight if he wants, and sticking up for your team is something everyone should do. Who cares if he is 18 and fighting. Schenn is just proving that he can stick up for his team and himself. |
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Guest9656
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Posted - 10/27/2008 : 06:54:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
October 26, 2008
The entire city of Toronto is breathing a sigh of relief, thus tripling our ecological footprint. But forget about all that CO2 for a moment. Luke Schenn has arrived. Which means the team won’t have to build around Jiri Tlusty after all.
Luke Schenn is the face of the future for the Buds. They love him in the room because he just does so much. In high school, that type of goody-two shoes behaviour would lead to ‘Kick Me!’ signs. In the NHL, it leads to money. And I’m not going to crash this party prematurely, but let’s be honest with ourselves: Luke Schenn is not God. And when he does something I don’t like, I’ll say it. The media would never do it, because calling out Schenn would do to the fan base what the word ‘recession’ would do to the Canadian economy – send them into unnecessary panic. But I figured with everyone singing his praises left right and centre, it would only be fair to throw a little constructive criticism his way. Actually, maybe all the superstars out there should tune in to this one.
DON’T FIGHT! Just don’t do it. Just don’t.
Now I know that people went nuts for his first big league fight – I also enjoyed it – but come on. Superstars have no business dropping the gloves. Superstars have no business getting into scrums, or trash talking, or anything like that. Basically, they should go through their NHL careers in bubble wrap. And for one simple reason: none of that behaviour accomplishes anything. You can’t convert punches into goals.
I’m not advocating for no-fighting rules. I’m saying the superstars mean too much to their team to get involved in any way. Fighting is a part of the game that fans enjoy, and many people make their bread and butter as professional fighters. It raises the intensity and swings momentum. All that is wonderful, but it’s the side show. Not the main event.
And plus, momentum lasts for all of a few minutes. Momentum is only a vehicle through which goals can be scored. If the team is all revved up but their best players are serving a 5 minute sentence in the sin-bin it seems self defeating, no? Not to mention the possibility for injury.
So Luke Schenn, and all you others trying to fill your resume with Yellow Hearts and broken bones: we know who you are. You don’t need to clop a guy to remind us.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame
Since when did Schenn become a superstar?
Also, would you ever tell Iginla, Lecavalier, or Chara not to fight? These guys are superstars that know how to take care of themselves. People respect that aspect of their game. They are the unique. They are the few who can do it all. I just wish cros-baby would drop the gloves now and then, instead of whining to the refs all the time. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2008 : 16:16:46
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I don't believe Luke Schenn is a superstar. I believe he is the franchise player of the Maple Leafs. My wording was off, and I know that I deserve to get ripped apart for it. So my mistake.
But I stand by my statement that he shouldn't be fighting. At this early stage in his career, it is ashame to get ahead of himself. He is meant to de developping. If he gets injured, that ruins this critical period of time for him. Not to mention he took on a guy that fights for a living, and who he will be seeing a lot more of. The risk just is not worth the reward. Carlo Colaicovo was a highly touted pick that hasn't been able to get his big break even though he's been trying for years and has the talent. Why? Injuries.
And no, Lecavalier and Iginla should not be fighting. Yes, they are great at it. And it's nice when a star player can hold his own instead of hiding in the corner while some goon on the fourth line does the dirty work for him. But, the important aspect here is that they are missing five minutes of action for what? To prove themselves? To send the message not to mess with them? Five minutes is more than eight percent of a game. It's just not worth it. I don't think as a coach you'd embrace the concept of your star players fighting.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2008 : 17:32:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
I don't believe Luke Schenn is a superstar. I believe he is the franchise player of the Maple Leafs. My wording was off, and I know that I deserve to get ripped apart for it. So my mistake.
But I stand by my statement that he shouldn't be fighting. At this early stage in his career, it is ashame to get ahead of himself. He is meant to de developping. If he gets injured, that ruins this critical period of time for him. Not to mention he took on a guy that fights for a living, and who he will be seeing a lot more of. The risk just is not worth the reward. Carlo Colaicovo was a highly touted pick that hasn't been able to get his big break even though he's been trying for years and has the talent. Why? Injuries.
And no, Lecavalier and Iginla should not be fighting. Yes, they are great at it. And it's nice when a star player can hold his own instead of hiding in the corner while some goon on the fourth line does the dirty work for him. But, the important aspect here is that they are missing five minutes of action for what? To prove themselves? To send the message not to mess with them? Five minutes is more than eight percent of a game. It's just not worth it. I don't think as a coach you'd embrace the concept of your star players fighting.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame
Alex, don't bother watching any vintage games. Anything pre-Gretzky. You won't like what you see.
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 09:38:49
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I love the fighting in the game myself. But Luke does gotta slow down, not bc he shouldn't be fighting bc he is the closest thing to JC to ever play for the leafs but bc he's not thinking when he does this and he gunna run into a good fighter and he will learn the hard way. I can tell you right now some of the old guys are getting sick of that.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
Edited by - Axey on 10/28/2008 10:11:12 |
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Guest6196
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Posted - 10/28/2008 : 11:09:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
I don't believe Luke Schenn is a superstar. I believe he is the franchise player of the Maple Leafs. My wording was off, and I know that I deserve to get ripped apart for it. So my mistake.
But I stand by my statement that he shouldn't be fighting. At this early stage in his career, it is ashame to get ahead of himself. He is meant to de developping. If he gets injured, that ruins this critical period of time for him. Not to mention he took on a guy that fights for a living, and who he will be seeing a lot more of. The risk just is not worth the reward. Carlo Colaicovo was a highly touted pick that hasn't been able to get his big break even though he's been trying for years and has the talent. Why? Injuries.
And no, Lecavalier and Iginla should not be fighting. Yes, they are great at it. And it's nice when a star player can hold his own instead of hiding in the corner while some goon on the fourth line does the dirty work for him. But, the important aspect here is that they are missing five minutes of action for what? To prove themselves? To send the message not to mess with them? Five minutes is more than eight percent of a game. It's just not worth it. I don't think as a coach you'd embrace the concept of your star players fighting.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame
I agree with you Alex. Superstars should not be fighting. If I was an owner and my 8 Million dollar a year investment breaks his hand in a fight, I would be pissed. Leave the fighting to the fighters. Stars should still hit hard and play tough like Lecavalier and Iginla do, but no fights. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 11:39:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
...And no, Lecavalier and Iginla should not be fighting. Yes, they are great at it. And it's nice when a star player can hold his own instead of hiding in the corner while some goon on the fourth line does the dirty work for him. But, the important aspect here is that they are missing five minutes of action for what? To prove themselves? To send the message not to mess with them? Five minutes is more than eight percent of a game. It's just not worth it. I don't think as a coach you'd embrace the concept of your star players fighting....
Alex, you keep saying that it's 5 minutes that they are off the ice. That 5 minutes in the sin-bin is worth it for these elite players. If a player knows he's going to pay the price by messing with you he is less likely to do it. This gives you more time and space on the ice. A reward well worth the cost! Look at each fight as an investment...you pay a little now to get much more in the future.
Not every elite player should fight. Kariya was certainly not built for it, Gretzky was not, Naslund, ya not so much. Point is, you have to be able to back it up. The modern day stars that guest 9565 mentioned above can do that...and then some! They motivate their team in many ways, an ocassional fight is one of those ways.
Sure I'd hate to see Iginla get hurt in a fight, not just because I'm a Flames fan, but because he's such a great ambassador for the game (contrary to what Avery thinks) But one of the reason's Iginla is my favourite player is that he is an all-around gifted star. Nope, he's not the best at anything, but he's GREAT at everything, and that includes fighting. The league needs more guys like him. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 12:22:41
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
...And no, Lecavalier and Iginla should not be fighting. Yes, they are great at it. And it's nice when a star player can hold his own instead of hiding in the corner while some goon on the fourth line does the dirty work for him. But, the important aspect here is that they are missing five minutes of action for what? To prove themselves? To send the message not to mess with them? Five minutes is more than eight percent of a game. It's just not worth it. I don't think as a coach you'd embrace the concept of your star players fighting....
Alex, you keep saying that it's 5 minutes that they are off the ice. That 5 minutes in the sin-bin is worth it for these elite players. If a player knows he's going to pay the price by messing with you he is less likely to do it. This gives you more time and space on the ice. A reward well worth the cost! Look at each fight as an investment...you pay a little now to get much more in the future.
Not every elite player should fight. Kariya was certainly not built for it, Gretzky was not, Naslund, ya not so much. Point is, you have to be able to back it up. The modern day stars that guest 9565 mentioned above can do that...and then some! They motivate their team in many ways, an ocassional fight is one of those ways.
Sure I'd hate to see Iginla get hurt in a fight, not just because I'm a Flames fan, but because he's such a great ambassador for the game (contrary to what Avery thinks) But one of the reason's Iginla is my favourite player is that he is an all-around gifted star. Nope, he's not the best at anything, but he's GREAT at everything, and that includes fighting. The league needs more guys like him.
Here, Here. Well said.
One thing about the "5 minutes off the ice" comment that I would like to bring up is that it's TWO players off the ice. In the situation of Iginla vs Lecavalier, both team's most gifted player is off, not just Iginla. That's a good trade off. Now, if Iginla dances with Boogaard, not such a good trade off. That is why you see a guy like Iginla dance in one of two situations. 1) When it is the best option to fire up your team and tell the other team that you will not put up with garbage, or 2) When the trade off is equal with who you are fighting.
To use a comparison(and luckily the same team) this is something that Dion Phaneuf might take note of. I have seen Phaneuf dance with Moreau from Edmonton on more than one occasion. This is a great trade off for Edmonton as Calgary's defensive talent is in the box beside a 3rd line plugger.
With all that being said, something else happens when a guy like Iginla dances and that his team responds. There is an extra jump in their step on the PK and they are more likely to kill off any addition time that might come from Iginla fighting.
I don't think there could be a better motivating boost to a team during the game than your star player sticking up for himself, getting 5 min + 2 for instigating, and have the penalized team score a shorty.
That is simple magic.
Plus, did you see how pumped Iginla was a couple weeks back when he dances with Mitchell from Vancouver, won the fight, and was jacked up all the way to the penalty box??
That again was magic, and as a hockey fan, I love it! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 15:59:39
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Leigh: I disagree. The guys most likely to be pesting a guy like Iginla are the guys whose job it is to do that. If they can get him to fight them even if they break ten bones in the process than they are succesful. And they will one hundred percent be just as aggressive the next time around. No, I'm wrong. They'll be even more aggressive, because it worked! They caused a player to lose focus and fight instead of score.
Beans: Both arguments of yours don't add up in my humble opinion. By virtue of the fact that Iginla is one of the only star fighters, it would follow that most of his fights aren't against stars. Basic math. If only a couple teams have star fighters (and very little do) than that means that the majority of his fights would fall in your ''not worth it'' category: against the Boogards.
And number two is maybe a misunderstanding on my part, but from what I read:
quote:
With all that being said, something else happens when a guy like Iginla dances and that his team responds. There is an extra jump in their step on the PK and they are more likely to kill off any addition time that might come from Iginla fighting.
I don't think there could be a better motivating boost to a team during the game than your star player sticking up for himself, getting 5 min + 2 for instigating, and have the penalized team score a shorty.
So the benefit of fighting is that the negative consequence might not happen? In other words, get a penalty so that your team can work on the PK? It makes no sense to me. And to suggest that they could get a shorthanded goal makes even less sense, because they are so rare, ESPECIALLY when your star player isn't on!
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
Edited by - Alex on 10/28/2008 17:20:13 |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 17:51:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Leigh: I disagree. The guys most likely to be pesting a guy like Iginla are the guys whose job it is to do that. If they can get him to fight them even if they break ten bones in the process than they are succesful. And they will one hundred percent be just as aggressive the next time around. No, I'm wrong. They'll be even more aggressive, because it worked! They caused a player to lose focus and fight instead of score.
Nothing will stop a pest/agitator and a goon/enforcer from doing his job. this is true. But everyone else out there will give him just a little more space...and as a super elite player, that's all Iginla needs (plus the "fire up" factor for his team)
What's interesting is that your argument could also be applied to hitting. Do you expect Ovechkin to stop playing his style of game because he might end up in the box or get hurt. No way! His star shines so bright because his game is so well rounded too; deadly sniper, wicked fast skater and punishing hitter! Sure this may have an impact on the length of his career, and surely he will end up in the penalty box due to a few poorly timed hits or roughing calls, but this makes his game so effective and helps fuel the magical machine that gives him the space he needs out there. |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 20:32:35
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The way Schenn has been playing so far, there is probably a lot of guys would prefer he go back to the juniors. Good for him he said "NO". I'm not embarrassed to say that I have enjoyed seeing the Leafs playing beyond their potential this year, so far, and actually hope that they continue to perform. I still think it's funny, however, that the Paul Maurice apologists and enthusiasts have disappeared. I feel bad for the guy. He was dealt a bad card all the way. Wilson, on the other hand, has been given carte blanche, and is benefiting from it with reckless abandon. This guy will be praised as an innovator for motivating a young team no matter where they finish. Back to the topic, Schenn will fight. He's a big boy.He wants to be part of the game for a long time. He will fight.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2008 : 08:10:30
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October 30, 2008
http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip107471#clip107471
Gone are the days of ‘broken wrists’ or ‘high ankle sprains.’ Injuries have become geographical. You’ve got your upper body injuries and your lower body injuries, and that’s about it. I always thought lower body injury was a polite way to hint at erectile dysfunction, but apparently the toe and the hip are one and the same nowadays.
Everything has its reason. The NHL’s rationale is that the new system will prevent injury. After all, if no one knows what ‘lower body’ really means, than the opposing players have to guess for themselves. You can spend an hour hacking at a guy’s hammy when it was an ingrown toenail that sidelined him. That’s the pro. Had it been in place last year, Gary Roberts wouldn’t have head-hunted Franzen, and the entire city of Philadelphia wouldn’t have put a hit man on Crosby’s ankle.
The con? Well, our media is about as censored as North Korea’s. The flow of information has been cut.
The irony of this situation is that the media is the one reporting this dilemma, and therefore the only side we hear is theirs. But to be perfectly frank, I disagree with them. Does it impact my life to know that Martin Brodeur has a toothache? Do I care if Sidney Crosby is suffering from insomnia? It would be nice to know. But the NHL can’t go to each fan individually and whisper the nature of the injury in their ear every time someone gets injured. The only way to inform the masses is through televisions and computers, which, surprisingly enough, the players can also afford.
I’m a nice fellow. My heart goes out to the players that are suffering from nose bleeds and flu bugs. But, for their sake, and for the game’s, the league is right. The last thing they want is to nurse a broken arm for a month and have guys taking runs at it in their first game back. The league still reports the amount of time a player will be out. That should suffice.
When Ovechkin’s ankle snaps, I don’t need to know. When Luongo has a kid, then you can fill me in. I’ll send him a fruit basket.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
Edited by - Alex on 10/30/2008 13:56:12 |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 17:43:12
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Hey guys, my blog needs a bit of a ressurection. IAC emailed me asking me to start it up again and I appreciate it. I have made the effort to keep it active even though I have a lot of work, please help me! So this is officially the thread to talk about your all-star rosters, because I thought of it first!  Enjoy.
November 5, 2008
The All-Star fan ballot was released yesterday, clearly the most important thing to happen in this hemisphere since Lime Coke. Those stupid Americans actually had the nerve to hold some federal election on the same day. Let’s drop kick them over Niagara.
Kidding aside, kudos to Barack Obama for a hell of a campaign. John McCain… well, at least you didn’t die, so you’re already doing better than two thirds of the people your age. But enough politics, let’s talk about our All-Star game.
Here’s what I have to say about it.
1) The voting system is crap. You can vote as many times as you want. Well, isn’t that just a little bit stupid? One vote should suffice. Let me remind you, this is the same country that has to legislate the eating of ballots. We don’t need to make things harder than they are.
http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?section=faq&document=faqvoting&textonly=false#voting20
2) Let the game count for something. I’m not going to suggest ‘home field advantage’ for the Stanley Cup Finals (sorry, no maverick here.) But how about the team that wins gets the All-Star game in their conference next year? Not unreasonable.
3) Spread the wealth. This is Robin-Hood style politics at its worst. Why aren’t the best players this season featured on a ballot for an All-Star gaming taking place… when is it? Oh would you look at that – this season! Pascal Leclaire deserved to be in the All-Star game last season without a question. I’m sure someone will get shafted this season because Sundin comes out of retirement or Brodeur recovers just in time for the game, and steal their spot. Not fair. To be clear, that doesn’t mean I’d bench Ovechkin for Patrick Sharp. Clearly one player is more exciting to watch. But you get the point.
4) Without further ado, my team. Have fun disagreeing, I know you will!:
East
Price, Lundqvist, Thomas
Crosby, Ovechkin, Lecavalier, Malkin, Kovalev, Kovalchuk, Semin, Koivu, Gagne, Heatley, Vanek, Savard
Markov, Schenn, Chara, Green, Komisarek, Bouwmeester
West
Backstrom, Nabokov, Kiprusoff
Lidstrom, Boyle, Campbell, Phaneuf, Pronger, Weber
Iginla, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hemsky, Nash, Kane, Gaborik, Thornton, Getzlaf, Boyes, Selanne, Hejduk
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
Edited by - Alex on 11/05/2008 17:54:50 |
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Guest6122
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Posted - 11/05/2008 : 22:26:34
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| Gaborik's injured and has 1 point so far, not an All-Star pick for me, replace him with Mikko Koivu |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 23:37:18
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Alex, you need at least 1 person from each team
My Roster
East
F: Lecavalier, Crosby, Ovechkin, M. Richards, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Kovalev, Savard, Vanek, Parise, Guerin
D: Kaberle, Bowmeester, Markov, Corvo, Chara, Green
G: Lundquist, Price, Fleury
West
F: Iginla, Thornton, Getzalf, Arnott, Jokinen, Datsyuk, Kariya, Koivu, Zetterberg, Morrow, Kopitar, Nash
D: Phaneuf, Liles, Campbell, Lidstrom, Souray, Ohlund
G: Luongo, Giguere, Nabokov
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 14:11:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
Alex, you need at least 1 person from each team
My Roster
East
F: Lecavalier, Crosby, Ovechkin, M. Richards, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Kovalev, Savard, Vanek, Parise, Guerin
D: Kaberle, Bowmeester, Markov, Corvo, Chara, Green
G: Lundquist, Price, Fleury
West
F: Iginla, Thornton, Getzalf, Arnott, Jokinen, Datsyuk, Kariya, Koivu, Zetterberg, Morrow, Kopitar, Nash
D: Phaneuf, Liles, Campbell, Lidstrom, Souray, Ohlund
G: Luongo, Giguere, Nabokov
CANUCKS RULE!!!
I know. I guess I was being a little ''idealistic.'' I can post a legit one too if this topic gets off the ground
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 14:58:01
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I'm curious as to why you (amoung others) have Ovechkin going to the all-star game? I specifically quoted you because not only did you have Ovechkin on the team but you left his team mate and fellow left winger Semin off the team. How do you justify this?
I'm also curious how Boumeester, Corvo, Chara, Kopitar, and Souray make your all-star team (thus far anyhow)? Maybe you haven't noticed the season Weber, Kuba, Rafalski, Erhoff, etc, etc, etc, etc, are having....
It seems you've picked 2 teams of your favorite players and ignored who's actually performing well in this early season.
quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
Alex, you need at least 1 person from each team
My Roster
East
F: Lecavalier, Crosby, Ovechkin, M. Richards, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Kovalev, Savard, Vanek, Parise, Guerin
D: Kaberle, Bowmeester, Markov, Corvo, Chara, Green
G: Lundquist, Price, Fleury
West
F: Iginla, Thornton, Getzalf, Arnott, Jokinen, Datsyuk, Kariya, Koivu, Zetterberg, Morrow, Kopitar, Nash
D: Phaneuf, Liles, Campbell, Lidstrom, Souray, Ohlund
G: Luongo, Giguere, Nabokov
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 15:49:34
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
I'm curious as to why you (amoung others) have Ovechkin going to the all-star game? I specifically quoted you because not only did you have Ovechkin on the team but you left his team mate and fellow left winger Semin off the team. How do you justify this?
I'm also curious how Boumeester, Corvo, Chara, Kopitar, and Souray make your all-star team (thus far anyhow)? Maybe you haven't noticed the season Weber, Kuba, Rafalski, Erhoff, etc, etc, etc, etc, are having....
It seems you've picked 2 teams of your favorite players and ignored who's actually performing well in this early season.
quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
Alex, you need at least 1 person from each team
My Roster
East
F: Lecavalier, Crosby, Ovechkin, M. Richards, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Heatley, Kovalev, Savard, Vanek, Parise, Guerin
D: Kaberle, Bowmeester, Markov, Corvo, Chara, Green
G: Lundquist, Price, Fleury
West
F: Iginla, Thornton, Getzalf, Arnott, Jokinen, Datsyuk, Kariya, Koivu, Zetterberg, Morrow, Kopitar, Nash
D: Phaneuf, Liles, Campbell, Lidstrom, Souray, Ohlund
G: Luongo, Giguere, Nabokov
CANUCKS RULE!!!
If you read my above statement you would no that I made my team based on the All-Star team requirements ONE PERSON FROM EACH TEAM!! and I dont have Semin on my team if you actually read it.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 21:00:32
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| If you would bother to read what I wrote then you would have seen that I was asking why you LEFT Semin off in favor of Ovechkin. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 00:35:14
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
If you would bother to read what I wrote then you would have seen that I was asking why you LEFT Semin off in favor of Ovechkin.
Of course I did. Sure Ovechkin has had a slow start but you dont think that has anything to do with his dying Grandpa do you? He'll pick it up and become the player he is soon. Semin should be on the all-star team but I dont think he will be based on the rules that you must have one person from each team and you can't just load up from one team.
as for the me picking a team of my favorite players comment, how would you no who my favourite players are?? I put Souray, Guerin, Liles and kovalev up there to name a few who I dislike, but felt they should be there based on they are the best choices from each of there teams.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Edited by - Canucks Man on 11/07/2008 00:40:29 |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 06:50:50
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Looking back I can agree with Souray being on the team. Any team that doesn't include Weber on it is a mockery to the game of hockey. Liles doesn't have any business being on the team over him under any circumstance. As far as Ovechkin being on the team because of what he might do or should be doing is a complete crock, sick grandfather or not. Brett Favre played one of the best games of football in his career the DAY AFTER his father passed away. If you felt that there was no way you could leave him off the team you should have waited until he started playing good before you made your list. As it stands now Ovechkin doesn't deserve to be on any all-star related team.
Alex-Gaborik???? |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 07:58:42
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Ohlund will never make it.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 08:27:42
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| I agree, he absolutly doesn't deserve to be there. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 08:59:19
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This is really tough to do. You want to pick all the best players in the league but there are only so many roster spots and you have to have at least 1 player from each team in the game. If I forgot any teams let me know. There are lots of guys off my list that deserve to be there.
Eastern Conference All-Stars:
Goal :
Tim Thomas (BOS)
Henrik Lundqvist (NYR)
Carey Price (MTL)
Defence:
Zdeno Chara (BOS), Tomas Kaberle (TOR),
Andrei Markov (MTL), Mike Green (WAS),
Kimmo Timonen (PHI), Jay Boumeester (FLA)
Filip Kuba (OTT)
Forward:
Sidney Crosby (PIT), Evgeni Malkin (PIT), Alex Ovechkin (WAS),
Ilya Kovalchuk (ATL), Alex Semin (WAS), Mike Richards (PHI),
Dany Heatley (OTT), Vincent Lecavalier (TB), Eric Staal (CAR)
Zach Parise (NJ), Trent Hunter (NYI), Thomas Vanek (BUF)
Marc Savard (BOS)
Western Conference All-Stars:
Goal:
Evgeni Nabokov (SJ)
Bobby Lu (Roberto Luongo) (VAN)
Miika Kiprusoff (CGY)
Defence:
Dan Boyle (SJ), Chris Pronger (ANA)
Brian Rafalski (DET), Niklas Lidstrom (DET)
Dion Phaneuf (CGY), Brent Burns (MIN)
Shea Weber (NSH)
Forwards:
Patrick Marleau (SJ), Jarome Iginla (CGY), Ryan Getzlaf (ANA)
Patrick Kane (CHI), Rick Nash, (CLB), Paul Kariya (STL)
Marian Hossa (DET), J.P Dumont (NSH), Joe Sakic (COL)
Brenden Morrow (DAL), Dustin Brown (LA), Ales Hemsky (EDM)
Shane Doan (PHX) |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 11:58:38
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
Alex-Gaborik????
Gaborik is in the top 5 exciting players in the NHL if you ask me. Of course, that's when he's healthy.
Now maybe he doesn't deserve it at this point, or at this pace - but I think when he gets back, he will produce well. And anyways, who else do you send from Minnesota? The only other guy I can justify calling an ''All Star'' would be their goalie. Unless Mikko can keep it up...
Marian Gaborik is probably faster than anyone else mentioned as a candadite for the game. And for that reason, he deserves to play and entertain the crowd. I know I love watching him, and that's why I put him in.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
Edited by - Alex on 11/07/2008 12:51:36 |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 12:22:56
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Like I said, you picked a great team of your favorite players. Hands down Koivu or even Miettenen deserve the nod over Gaborik as it stands. It doesn't matter if Gaborik heats up or Koivu cools down. If you made the roster today Gaborik/Ovechkin off and Semin/Koivu are on.
What happens when people vote this way is people who actually deserve to be there get left off and players who don't are in the game. There is a distinct possibility that Ryan Whitney could play in the all-star game this year.....blah
The NHL has to do somthing about who they're putting on the ballott ASAP before their all-star game festivities turns into even more of a joke then it is now. It's looking more and more like the NBA everyday.
And a quick sidebar, the quote you used of mine was in reference to Ohlund not deserving to play in the game. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 12:55:12
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| Interesting points there gentlemen. However, wouldn't it be foolish to leave marquee players off the roster just because they were hurt for the first month of the season? Not having Alex Ovechkin, the mvp and scoring champion, at the all star game just because he only has 5 points so far or whatever would piss me off. I want to see the big names at the all star game. Mikko Koivu is playing well but a month or two of good hockey doesnt make an allstar in my opinion. I also dont really like the fact that every team has to be represented. What if your team just doesnt have any all stars? I say tough luck. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 13:01:06
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
Like I said, you picked a great team of your favorite players. Hands down Koivu or even Miettenen deserve the nod over Gaborik as it stands. It doesn't matter if Gaborik heats up or Koivu cools down. If you made the roster today Gaborik/Ovechkin off and Semin/Koivu are on.
What happens when people vote this way is people who actually deserve to be there get left off and players who don't are in the game. There is a distinct possibility that Ryan Whitney could play in the all-star game this year.....blah
The NHL has to do somthing about who they're putting on the ballott ASAP before their all-star game festivities turns into even more of a joke then it is now. It's looking more and more like the NBA everyday.
And a quick sidebar, the quote you used of mine was in reference to Ohlund not deserving to play in the game.
Fixed the quote.
Regarding the festivities being a ''joke'' - I disagree. The All-Star game isn't trying to be the most entertaining game of the year. It's trying to be the game that's most fun for the fans. There is a fundamental difference, being that people would much rather watch Ovechkin than Semin regardless who is doing better.
If Ovechkin wasn't in the game it would be disgraceful and a turn off to your average fan. Regardless of if he's on pace for 80 points or 110.
The only thing that I think should be switched is the need for every team to be represented. But then again, if it's a game for the fans.... Although personally speaking, I'd rather watch the better player. My team I can watch any day.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 13:15:51
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Alex -
I agree. Why should the Islanders or the Leafs for that matter, have anyone at the game? They dont have anyone anywhere near "All-Star" status. Kaberle would be the closest one (and he did impress last year with the shooting comp). Detroit could very well have datsyuk, zetterberg, hossa, lidstrom and rafalski at the game but will most likley only have 2-3 of them because of teams like phoenix and LA.
But i guess the NHL wants to give fans from every team a reason (as if seeing the best players in the league isnt reason enough) to watch.
The all star game is rather lame now anyways, it doesnt really bother me too much who makes it or not. I do find it funny though that Jason Blake was an all star only 2 short seasons ago. Poor guy. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 02:10:42
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Roberts, About L.A. Kopitar is an all Star, so exciting to watch and if L.A. ever gets better or he ever gets out of L.A. he could be a super star
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 20:41:44
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Note: This isn't directed at NHLers, because they know when to hit and when not to obviously. It's directed at all the amateur players out there, like you and I, who would do well to remember that hitting isn't the goal of the game.
November 8, 2008
For all the song and dance around the NFL, they only play 16 games a year. The MLB on the other hand has each team play 162 games, or over ten times more. Why the parity? Simply put, the NFL makes the MLB look like a bra fitting. The players do nothing at all (and very little at that.) Meanwhile the spectators go balistic.
In other words, a sport with less contact sees more action. Which brings me to my thesis: smart hockey players put the hitting card in their back pocket, and pull it out when there's no better alternative. After all, hitting is only a means by which to remove the player from the puck. So how come there's so much hype around it? Because it's damn entertaining, that's why.
But if you look at the highlight reel hits, a lot of them are flash without substance. Let's use Dion Phaneuf as our example. How many times have we seen him fall from the sheer impact of his hits? Even though he gets up very quickly, by definition the effect has been neutralized.
I'd like to think I've broken down hitting into a science. The paradigm of a perfect use of the body check is the defence. All blueliners are taught to watch the chest, not the puck. So say there's a one on one situation. You're skating backwards, and the guy is coming at you. Step one is to line up your inside shoulder to his, thus forcing him to the perimeter. Step two is to throw in a couple poke checks, assuming they don't hamper your positioning (a poke check is effective nine times out of ten by virtue of the fact that you don't stand to lose anything from a defensive standpoint. The only time it fails is when it leaves you flat footed on say a crossover, but that's rare.) Step three is angling. After forcing your man where you want him, somewhere within the vicinity of the boards, you've ended the threat for all intents and purposes. The ideal situation would be to take the puck and quarterback a breakout. But there are times when it's not so simple. Say the guy had gotten the puck around you, but does not have full control of it (opting to put it between your legs or toe drag it for example.) You're still in control of the situation, as long as you have the man and not the puck. In this instance, it makes sense to go for the hit. If you don't, you are at risk of losing the man and the puck.
Flipping the equation around, to me, doesn't work. Let's do a case study. Their are two main instances in which a forward will hit, both of them redundant in nature. Number one is on the forecheck. You see it a million times, where a defence has already sent the puck up the ice, and the forward is coming at him (this isn't wrong because it does force the opposition into pressure and increases their chances of screwing up, which, unless you're a dreamer, is all you really expect a good forecheck to accomplish.) However, the forward always feels the need to up the ante and hit the defence. OK, so sometimes the law of momentum says they can't stop even if they tried. But lots of times they just throw in a weak hit that gets forgotten.
Case number two: the winger / point man. Those who play hockey know that when you break down the positions in the defending zone, the winger's responsibility is to limit the point shot. This sometimes conflicts with his other task, being on the hashmarks to recieve a breakout pass. Because posession switches so quickly, the winger is left juggling between responsibilities. The result is that sometimes he is rushing to cover the point too late. But instead of, say, being taught to slow down, sweep check and block a passing lane, we're taught to blow through the guy with a hit. The theory is, next time the defence will act just a little quicker to avoid being creamed, and might make a mistake. It's the same concept as the forecheck.
I know you guys on the forums disagree with my stances on fighting and hitting for the most part. If I may say so, I believe that's because your background is that of a fan. As a player, my experience tells me that hitting everything that moves (a principle some teams, including some of mine, have used) is backwards mentality. Of course, body contact is essential. I'm not saying teams should avoid sending big strong guys into the corners to dig out loose pucks. What I am saying is that disciplined teams know that big hits aren't the goal. Ninety five percent of the time it makes more sense to resist the urge of hitting, even when it's clean, even when you have momentum, even when it will look good in the newspaper the next day.
And the evidence is there. Hitting, just as much from the recieving end, is a tiring proccess. It's the reason the NFL schedules games a week apart - the players need to recover. Oh, and I wouldn't call last year's Detroit Red Wings a hitting type of team, either. |
Edited by - Alex on 11/08/2008 20:44:29 |
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Guest8815
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Posted - 11/08/2008 : 20:46:56
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| Im starting to question why you play, or watch hockey for that matter. You seem to dislike the fighting, and now the hitting. So what exactly do you enjoy? Cause that's about 33% of the game right there you dislike. |
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Guest8171
( )
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Posted - 11/09/2008 : 00:25:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest8815
Im starting to question why you play, or watch hockey for that matter. You seem to dislike the fighting, and now the hitting. So what exactly do you enjoy? Cause that's about 33% of the game right there you dislike.
Are you serious? That's like saying you watch football just to see the players get tackled. And I don't think Alex was saying he disliked hitting, more so he thinks it is not used effectively in most situations. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 04:34:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest8815
Im starting to question why you play, or watch hockey for that matter. You seem to dislike the fighting, and now the hitting. So what exactly do you enjoy? Cause that's about 33% of the game right there you dislike.
I love watching hitting and I love watching fighting. And I think both can be effective tools that can, at times, win games.
HOWEVER. Talking as a hockey player, more times than not, these tools aren't used effectively. If you ask me, fighting isn't even used properly in the NHL. As for hitting, this was directed to non-professionals. Even in the NHL though, some guys hit a little more than they should. The facts against it are that it does drain you of energy, and more times than not you're hitting a guy after he's gotten rid of the puck.
So maybe you wouldn't enjoy being coached under me. Oh well.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 07:07:06
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I completely agree that there is a time and place to hit and/or not hit. However, I think this view is completely oversimplified. Obviously, a defender would be more likely to make a good hockey play by following your three step process. However, what happens if the offensive player is bigger, stronger, faster, or just simply better than you are??? What does that leave you to do??
And I think you are missing an entire side of hitting. When a player gets absolutely rocked, two things happens. Firstly, the team doing the hitting gets pumped up. They get that extra boost of enery and potentially the momentum of the game. Secondly, the team getting hit receives the opposite effect OR they retalitate into stupid penalties.
So I absolutely agree that there are far too many hockey players out there than sacrifice the play for a hit. That is completely stupid. But, when a hit does not sacrifice the play, is the defenders only option, or improves the play, it is arguably the most effect non-scoring play in the game.
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 07:22:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
And I think you are missing an entire side of hitting. When a player gets absolutely rocked, two things happens. Firstly, the team doing the hitting gets pumped up. They get that extra boost of enery and potentially the momentum of the game. Secondly, the team getting hit receives the opposite effect OR they retalitate into stupid penalties.
In the NHL, you are right. This is a common element of hitting and a good bonus.
But remember, this is targeted for guys playing in house league, select, even A -AAA. I can tell you from first hand experience that whenever someone gets nailed in these leagues, a few things happen almost every time.
1) The parents go nuts. So does the coach. They start screaming and yelling at the ref and booing.
2) In order to neutralize this effect, conciously or not, the ref will often times call a penalty on the next play, or soon after. It's known as a ''makeup call.'' I like to think this is something exclusive to our leagues - the NHL refs, for all the heat they take, are very good at staying objective and not letting the fans influence them.
In fact, this ''makeup call'' business happened to me. I got a game misconduct for interference (!) and an added one for intent to injure (!!) Now, those who know me know I almost never hit, and in fact, I'm not all that good at it. So the call was complete bogus. But that's how it works with the refs in these leagues, you just gotta know its coming.
It's the same when they call a bunch of calls on one team. You know that at the first little shove the other way, there will be a penalty called, so as not to look biased. It always happens, and I'm sure guys on this forum can attest to it.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
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Guest8815
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Posted - 11/09/2008 : 09:46:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8815
Im starting to question why you play, or watch hockey for that matter. You seem to dislike the fighting, and now the hitting. So what exactly do you enjoy? Cause that's about 33% of the game right there you dislike.
I love watching hitting and I love watching fighting. And I think both can be effective tools that can, at times, win games.
HOWEVER. Talking as a hockey player, more times than not, these tools aren't used effectively. If you ask me, fighting isn't even used properly in the NHL. As for hitting, this was directed to non-professionals. Even in the NHL though, some guys hit a little more than they should. The facts against it are that it does drain you of energy, and more times than not you're hitting a guy after he's gotten rid of the puck.
So maybe you wouldn't enjoy being coached under me. Oh well.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame
Alright fair enough, but yes me and you could not work too well together if you coached me ;) . Cause I play the gritty / power forward type player. Im a pretty big guy at 5'8, 145 at only 15. So I use my body for positioning, and can throw my weight around. Im not much of a finesse player, and really all I can do is hit and shoot. My skating is adequate, deking is poor and passing is sub-par. So what I do is plow through the opponents with strength, and keep the puck away from them with my long reach, to get into position to unleash a shot. Hitting I can admit is over-used by some players, but frankly I don't mind that's what I enjoy to see. |
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Canada - Russia rap 
