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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
 Posted - 12/17/2008 : 15:17:42
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December 17 2008
OK so Jason Blake scored a pretty goal. Let's send him a fruit basket.
Not to belittle his achievement of course. I mean, it was a pretty dandy game winner. Especially coming from him. But to be honest, in the age of the internet, I'm starting to get sick of all the 'Top 10 Shootout Goal' compilations.
Like the first time I watched it, yea, it was amazing. But it seems to me that there are only x amount of moves out there that can look good and be succesful, and - by and large - they've been discovered. The closest thing to original I have seen in the past two years would be:
a) Ovechkin's All Star game attempt. Except he would never do it in a game.
b) Mike Ribeiro's adaptation of the Forsberg / Lemieux / Jokinen... wow that one needs a copyright.
c) Jarko Ruutu's shot from the goal line.
But that's about it. So here's what I want to see, post it in this thread if you can find it.
1) The FAILED attempts of dekes that would otherwise have looked really genius. Like, have you ever noticed that whenever a spin-o-rama or kick-it-off-your-skate or thru-the-legs move is done, it works? I really want to find footage of failed crazy dekes.
2) Original shootout moves. Any league, even amateur vids. NO VIDEO GAME FOOTAGE.
Like the Datsyuk, the Jokinen, the Lacrosse ... but not. Because they've already been made famous.
I want to see new moves that you could pull off in shinny and look really good doing. Doesn't have to follow the rules.
Example:
You're coming down the ice, and in your glove you've got a hidden puck. You skate to the left, drop the second puck, and kick it to the right. Bonus marks for getting both pucks in.
Have fun with it!
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
Edited by - Alex on 12/17/2008 15:20:44 |
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Jephman
Top Prospect
Canada
52 Posts |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2008 : 03:08:31
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Malik's was awesome and original and St. Louis' was innovative as well.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2008 : 19:33:27
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Before we start, here's a creative shootout move I pulled in a game of road hockey, kind of a Niklas Hagman gone wild. Hide a snowball in one hand, skate up the ice, thow the snow at the goalie's face, and tuck the puck home. Would work nicely in the winter classic. 
And now the feature presentation.
December 22, 2008
Show of hands, how many people buy their over-the-counter medication based on what Joe next door is taking? Yea, didn’t think so. The whole phenomenon with drug advertising is completely ludicrous. It’s like they expect me to find their product so appealing that I’m going to go out and catch the disease so that I can use the medicine to cure myself. Just when it looked like things couldn’t get worse, an ad for a hot new influenza vaccine caught my eye. Part of the disclaimer – in its entirety, longer than the ad itself – went something to the effect of ‘Afluria has never been proven to actually reduce the chances of catching the influenza virus under a controlled setting.’ Oh and in an unrelated sequence of events, Miss Piggy flew by my window at approximately 3:00 this afternoon.
(Cue the Steve Dangle theme music.)
Well, that intro had about as much to do with my blog topic today as any given Family Guy flashback, but I’m in a fight with my backspace key so we’ll have to make do. The part I want to focus on is ‘controlled settings’, and it’s actually a fantasy of mine that I’ve kept locked up for a while now. Everyone waxes rhapsodic about records of all kinds. Most goals, most assists, best plus-minus in practice, longest time gone without having the water bottle touch your lips…
And, while many if not all of the important records seem completely out of reach, they really aren’t. Bear with me for a moment.
What if a player came into the NHL bent on one thing and one thing only: getting a record. You may say ‘easier said than done’, except that it’s never been tried. Not even Crosby tries to get points. He plays to win. But what if he managed to sell his team on the idea of trying to get him points? Crazy, yes. But he would be a shoe-in for Art Ross every single year. I would bet good money that he wouldn’t have a single pointless game in a season.
What about most Stanley Cups? A player could cut a deal with his agent a la Sundin and get traded to a contender every year. Most shorthanded goals? A player could spend his life becoming a good PKer, get on every PK, and rack up shorties. Under controlled circumstances, everything is possible.
Not to mention one important thing: how many people play hockey? A quick Google search confirmed that ice hockey doesn’t rank in the top 10 popular sports. Essentially, players come from Canada/America and Central/Northern Europe. That’s nothing. Can you imagine if hockey mobilized a fan base in Asia or Africa, like soccer does? If a billion odd people all of a sudden decided to invest their athletic talents towards ice hockey? Man. Craziness!
Just something for you to chew on. It gets you thinking, don’t it?
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
Edited by - Alex on 12/23/2008 07:24:20 |
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BradTheBadDad
Top Prospect
73 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2008 : 08:11:45
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Interesting blog, you forgot to mention the easiest records of all - the single game ones. When Tampa realizes their season is over with like 15 games left, Vinny could go for: most assists/game, most goals/game, most shorties/ game. Obviously it would be very hard, but I'd reckon to say it's achievable.
In fact its not a half bad marketing scheme. Put St Louis, Lecavalier and Stamkos on the same line and sell the city of Tampa on the idea of comign to a game to watch records get broken. If the crazy owners bought in to that and gave the coach a mandate to try it out, I bet that line could snap at least one of the longstanding records. What do you think? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2008 : 10:44:26
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I highly doubt that a single game record could be broken just by shear determination. Not a reputable one anyways. Sure, someone could go and get a 2 minutes minor penalty every shift, but that doesn't take much skill does it. Although it would be nearly impossible to get more then 67 minutes in penalities under today's rules. By that time, there would be game misconducts involved.
I am thinking of the skill required single game record. Specifally scoring. There is a reason that no one has scored 7 or more goals (Joe Malone)in an NHL games in nearly 89 years. Same with the single game point record (10 points) that Sittler has owned since '76. Bill Taylor and Wayne Gretzky hold the record for most assists with 7 and the last time that happened was also over 20 years ago.
It's not like a NHL player can strap on the skates and say, "I going to go out and pot 8 goals tonight." Please. I don't think they could if they wanted to.
Records, specifically single game records, get broken so rarely. There is no way that a player could possibly put their mind to a skilled single game record and break it.
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 16:36:31
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December 30, 2008
You’ve got to love the World Juniors. There probably isn’t a single tournament, Stanley Cup Playoffs included, that match it. There are higher stakes and grander stages, but on the merits, the Juniors still outclass all others. And for a few good reasons.
1) Parity.
OK so Canada has won four in a row and are poised for a fifth. As Monica said when Chandler told her she’s Jewish and can’t be a reverent: technicality. While it’s true that Canada has held a monopoly on the podium, it wasn’t a cakewalk to get there. They have always met competition along the way, and haven’t even been the favourite to win every year. Most people would agree this year Sweden is the top dägg. Because of substantial roster changes every year, the outlook is different too.
2) Desire.
Every team wants to win. That simple. On any given night, there are a handful of athletes in the NHL that seem like they’ve got a lobotomy or suffer from insomnia – and the majority have surnames that end in ‘-ov’ or ‘-in.’ In this tournament, every shift is played like it’s the last one. It raises the intensity, and makes for fun hockey to boot.
3) Amateurs.
This is what sets the juniors apart from the Olympics. In the Olympics, you’re watching guys that you know, and that go back to North America to play important hockey whether they win or lose. In the Juniors, you’re just getting your feet wet with tomorrow’s stars. It’s where legends are born. I first watched Luongo, Crosby and Ovechkin in the juniors, and it was probably more exciting then.
If there is one thing that’s wrong with the Juniors, it’s that too many teams are invited to the party. Without pointing fingers, I’ll just say that the tourney should go back to featuring 8 teams, all of which have a legitimate shot at first. Or at least find different criteria for qualifiers.
But by and large, this tournament is one of the best out there. Enjoy it while it lasts!
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
Edited by - Alex on 12/30/2008 16:37:26 |
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Guest9694
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Posted - 12/30/2008 : 20:24:06
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The IIHF are supposed to promote hockey around the world. Contraction would not do that. I mean why not reduce it to the 4 teams? Do you really think after the top 4 (for this year: CDN, SWE, RUS, USA), that any one else that would give these teams a good run. You end up like women's hockey where really on CDN and US have a chance to win.
Hockey (on an international level) is still quite young. Those who have developed programs must teach the newer ones. Once the competition rises, it will be an even more beautiful and exciting game to watch and play. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 22:43:00
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Four teams? Now that is just too low, in my opinion.
I'd have to say the top 8 teams would do just fine, or even top 6.
Canada
Sweden
Russia
Czech Republic
USA
Finland
Slovakia
Germany
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Switzerland
Latvia
etc..
Yes, I agree more often than not it is always those same top six. But, there is always that glimmer of hope you'll see a different team come in and take over (atleast, partially.) Perhaps not win Gold, but maybe a nice Bronze :)
Slovakia?
I have always found Slovakia to be a decent team, in all levels of hockey. Never the best, but never the worst. And look at this year! Slovakia first upsets Finland, then the HUGE upset... knocking the USA out of the tournament! Just amazing.
So, if we were to drop the tournament down to just 4 teams, I think the tournament would be awful. Infact, I think 8 would be perfect, but 10 isn't bad.
Even if I were on team Kazakhstan, i'd love going to play in the TOP level of hockey for my age group, even if I knew my team would get blown away every game. There is always that chance of a big win.
Irvine |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2009 : 05:01:52
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| I think what is being forgotten here is that the bottom two seeded teams have earned their way through qualifying. This year Kazakhastan and Germany earned the right to play in the WJHC. Each year the bottom two finishing teams are forced into a qualifying situation. I find no problem with a team earning their way into the tournament even if they are inferior to teams that are hockey powers. We as Canadians take this tournament for granted and expect to win gold every year. Others like the Slovakians (who upset USA whoo hoo) have developed from one those regulated teams into a team that had won Bronze in the past and this year playing for a medal again, it is a great big deal in their country just to be in this tourney. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2009 : 06:11:37
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Irvine: Latvia beat Kazakhstan and Germany by identical 7-1 scores . . . so I would think that Germany would rank lower than Latvia. That being said, both deserve to be in the second tier of teams in terms of skill and abilities, below your top 7.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2009 : 16:29:52
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January 6, 2008
There are so many things to take away from the World Juniors, and no doubt, it will be a launching pad for many hockey conversations for the foreseeable future. Yet while TSN is painting Esposito as Cinderella, Markstrom as the Wicked Witch, and Tokarski as the Little Engine that Could, we would be foolish to say that the spotlight belongs anywhere than on top of one Jonathan Elizabeth Tavares. He was never a member of the Nazi party.
(If you get the joke, pat yourself on the back. If not, do yourself a favour and rent The Producers. You’ll stitch your sides laughing.)
This guy is on top of the world. Tournament MVP, with most goals ever scored in a WJ, and a gold medal to boot. He’s already broken Gretzky’s OHL goal records and set himself apart from all other ‘Next Ones’ in the process. And he has the good fortune of being freakishly similar looking to Steve Dangle.
But, I hate the jerk.
Yes guys, it’s true. Well maybe not fully. You see, he hasn’t really done anything that’s so terrible just yet. But being a psychic, I know that in a few years everyone will be joining the anti-Tavares camp. Just remember who fuelled the bandwagon.
When he enters the NHL and inevitably falls short of 99’s benchmark, you’ll be there too. When he gets named captain and leads a team deep into the post-season, you’ll lynch his fans. Crazy?
Well consider that it happened to Sidney Crosby, and for no rational reason whatsoever. There are so many parallels between these two guys it would make a geometry teacher erotic. Crosby, like Tavares, was at the top of the world in juniors. Crosby, like Tavares, won Canada’s amour on the world stage. Crosby, like Tavares, was called ‘The Next One’ and had every team drooling for him.
So why all this hate for the Kid? Does anyone seriously think that expecting Tavares to be the next one won’t set him up for the same type of relative disappointment that Crosby produced? Tavares will be on a bad team, with likely no policemen on them. He will get frustrated coming out of the glitz of an incredibly successful 18 years of hockey and into a poor hockey market with no support and men – not boys – doing everything in their power to shut him down.
You’re a hypocrite if you don’t end up hating Tavares for the same things he will inevitably do when inheriting a Crosby-like atmosphere. So quit while you’re ahead, and close the curtain on the culture of hate.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2009 : 16:38:20
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| Hey Alex, maybe your best blog yet buddy! Love the tongue in cheek attitude. And oh so true! Very sad. |
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Guest5443
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Posted - 01/06/2009 : 19:30:59
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| Hey you forgot to compare Tavares to Van Riemsdyk and Hedman and how much better those players are than Tavares. Not to mention that they play completely different style too but that's besides the point. |
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Guest0439
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Posted - 01/06/2009 : 20:15:32
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| if Tavares whines and complains like crosby maybe your right but even in the memorial cup everyone hated crosby did you see how much he whined and corey perry made him look bad haha, call me a hyprocrite but crosby was like this before the NHL tavares is a hardnose hockey player and sure media will hurt a bit of his image but no way hes going to take the same liberities Crosby had for Junior and playing up. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 05:58:21
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Johnny T doesn't seem to be so much of an emotional wreck on the ice as Sid. Crosby always seems to be getting so bent out of shape over alot of things, which people seem to pick up on right away and start to rag on him for. Tavares, while emotional during key moments in the WJC, is very methodical and deliberate in his play with Oshawa, very rarley do you see him get upset or stray from his game.
Also, one thing I think people will really like about Tavares is the fact that the guy is a purebred sniper. Sid isn't really a shooter and his shot doesn't scare any goalie in the league which leads people to think that he is relativley one-dimensional. I think Johnny T will sustain his popularity if he continue to score goals, and not just set up plays.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 11:46:51
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Hey Alex,
Fantastic blog entry.
Shame the point was missed by the subsequent replies.. .
I do agree with what you state, expectations are going to be very high for Tavares, and odds are good he will disappoint those not willing to allow a 'kid' to mature and learn. Odds are also good that the next generation of Crosby-like haters will swarm their keyboards like angry little ants running around all willy nilly.
I do wish that people could understand that the Gretzky's and Lemieux's of the hockey world were statistical freaks, not the normal progression of hockey players, to try and compare anyone to those two, is not only unfair, but not too bright either as a valid opinion goes.
Any potential star of a hockey player now, is having to be subjected to these comparisons from such an early age, I find it amazing they even continue to play. Who are we to place that kind of pressure and expectation on a teenager? Why do fans hate players who don't meet their unattainable standards?
A young man/teenager can be among the league leaders statistically, help lead his team to a Stanley Cup final, have a microphone stuck in his face 80 percent of his life, have every action he does on the ice be scrutinized without any thought to what might have instigated his actions, and still be relied on to be a very classy representative for his profession. Yet, the loudest voices in the cyber world seem to be those who would rather espouse dislike and hatred?
I hear what you're saying Alex, and all I can say to those future Tavares haters is...it's okay I'm sure Tavares woiuldn't like you either. |
Edited by - fat_elvis_rocked on 01/07/2009 11:48:37 |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 12:28:25
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I still don't think people will hate on him as much as crosby. The personalities are totally different and expectations arent the same. Coming out of the lockout, Crosby was expected to 'save' the NHL and start destroying scoring records. Im not so sure thats the case for Tavares. He did put up gigantic numbers in junior but after what we all went through with Crosby coming into the league, expectations are still tempered to a degree. We all expect him to be very good, but he is not expected to be the face of the NHL or the next Gretzky. Even though the whole 'next one' talk has been around, I never really felt it was genuine the way Crosby's was.
But meh, maybe I missed the point again, but I dont see Tavares' career paralleling crosby's after he enters the NHL. Another star on a different path.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 16:16:36
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January 7, 2008
It’s a dog-eat-dog world. And when one mutt bites another on the paw, it’s time to go back to the drawing board.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=262261&lid=headline&lpos=secStory_nhl
With that in mind, it is time to re-evaluate where the game is heading. To be sure, hockey itself is alive and well. It’s the sideshow that needs a new ringleader. With all the nonsense in the league today it’s time to restock the cupboards. For the pest, expiry date may have already passed.
There are two types of fringe players in this league: the fighters and the pests. More and more evidence is pointing to the fact that the league may not be big enough for them both. The problem with allowing these two to play together is that ‘the code’ becomes grey and fuzzy, and the refs are the poor jerks stuck with the repercussions.
Let’s look at the pros and cons of both these players:
Class
Without a doubt, the fighter wins this one. If you need more proof, I cordially invite you to read George Laraque’s blog on Sportsnet.com, which you can find in the active topics of these forums. By definition, the pest has no respect for anyone.
Skill
This one will go to the pest. Sean Avery and Claude Lemieux may not exactly be leading contenders for the Hart Trophy, but their kind do seem to have a knack for coming up big when you need a goal. It’s this dual-usage feature that makes them so sexy to motivated GMs come deadline day. The fighter, by contrast, doesn’t even get enough minutes to justify sharpening their skates.
Salary
The disclaimer here is that I’m buying George Laraque’s welfare request carte blanche, but by and large, it’s fair to assume that the fighter is making less. That’s a point for them.
Entertainment
Tough call. This can go either way because both a good fight and a good sound byte are appreciated by hockey fans. We’ll call it a tie.
Effectiveness
Going with the fighter on this one. Claude Lemieux is the only exception I can think of, but other than that, most pests end up poisoning the team more than helping them. Fighters, on the other hand, have proven useful time and again.
So the final score is 4-2 for the fighter. Pests are getting more annoying while at the same time less entertaining. Let’s let the stars initiate rivalries and the fighters police them. The pest is a depreciating commodity.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
Edited by - Alex on 01/07/2009 16:18:00 |
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Guest2874
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Posted - 01/09/2009 : 13:20:14
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| effectiveness goes to the pest, not fighter and entertainment goes to the fighter, its not a tie. the ''entertainment'' that pests give us is stupid, immature and annoying. the way fighters entertain, while controversial and fueling the arguments of many of those who call hockey a brutal, primitive game, is some of the best action in sports and is an industry within itself (consider Rockem Sockem videos) |
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Guest7735
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Posted - 01/09/2009 : 13:30:11
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| people love fighting in boxing and ufc, whats the big deal with fighting in hockey? Its f***in badass. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 15:34:58
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January 12, 2009
This isn’t your daddy’s NHL anymore ladies and germs. There was a time where you didn’t need anything more than the score to satisfy your average hockey fan. Now, thanks to the modern computer, you need to know everything from shooting-percentage to the temperature of the water in the bottles (bonus marks for Fahrenheit). Today, the Alex Blog is going back to the drawing board and ranking – you guessed it – the top ten ‘stats.’
These are the top ten stats that would interest me if I were drafting a team of unknown players to play in a league that follows NHL rules.
10. Plus / minus
This stat is probably one of the stupidest amongst the big ones. You can get docked one just because your d-man blew a tire. It’s more of a measure of how lucky a guy is than anything.
9. Hits
Being on the extreme low or high end would send up a red flag, but other than that it’s not the most important deciding factor out there.
8. Points
‘Points’ alone don’t really tell me all that much about a player. Only when divided into ‘goals’ and ‘assists’ do we start to get an understanding.
7. PIM
I’d prefer to have guy with very low PIMs. Too many games are decided on the power-play to have a guy that can’t keep his pride in his pants costing you games.
6. Blocked shots
This is hugely overlooked but very important. Every blocked shot is that much less work for the ‘tender.
5. Assists
Assists are a reflection of being in the right place at the right time at the very least. People talk about garbage goals, but there are a lot more garbage assists. Nonetheless, you can’t be picking your nose on the ice and leading the league in helpers.
4. Face-off percentage
‘As long as we have the puck, they can’t score’ –Paul Coffey (paraphrased.) Few things compete with being able to tap a guy on the shoulder and telling him ‘go win that draw.’
3. Shootout shooting percentage
Frankly, it’s a wonder no one talks about this. It is without question one of the most important stats in the new NHL. How many other stats can single-handedly steal points for teams?
2. Ice time
This one is huge if you ask me. My experience says that the more ice time you get, the better you play. It just allows you to get into the game. The best team in my league has 10 skaters, FYI.
1. Goals
It’s that simple. A goal is a goal is a goal. There isn’t anything more valuable to a team than a goal, period.
Thoughts? |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 16:03:37
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hmm interesting for me it would also have to be consistency i'd rather say a chris drury to a kovalev,,, sure Drury will never put up a point per game season,... but you cant count on his 20 to 35 goals year in year out regardless. in building a team guys like that are the backbone... so i guess you'd have to look at all these stats perhaps in this order but over the course of a career..
Pasty |
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DangleFest89
Rookie
122 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 16:41:49
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| shots are always nice to see who will shoot from anywhere maybe PP points to see who works best with the Man advantage |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 18:01:12
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Interesting perspective Alex. Couple things:
Assists - are NOT a reflection of being in the right place at the right time any more than goals are being in the right place at the right time. When Cheechoo broke 50 goals a few seasons ago, I swear my dog could have scored half of those goals. Certianly Thornton was not lucky to be the guy on the other end of the pass? 'Second' assists however are a little bit luckier, but have more value in today's NHL (rather than 20+ years ago) with the advent of more set-plays and special teams.
Blocked Shots - These are great but don't forget that everytime someone blocks a shot, they are screening a goalie. Many blocked shot attempts have actually resulted in a goal on your own net. Like the plus minus, they should start tracking the flip side of the blocked shot attempt. Take this one with a grain of salt.
Plus/Minus - This is always controversial, but I personally like the plus minus a lot. Yes there are a lot of external factors however over time you can see a trend for that player. If a guy has a few seasons over a career that are moderately in the negative then that's no big deal. If he's consistently in the plus or the negative then you've got some good info there. It's no surprise that guys like Lidstrom have careers that are consistently in the plus. All things being equal, I'll take the plus guy.
Ice time: Not sure why you would put this second. Yes, the more ice time you get the better you'll play...but the better you play the more ice time you'll get. I wouldn't even put it on the list frankly. All the other stats mean something directly to your team and the outcome of a game. This is just a nice piece of info if you are in a fantasy league.
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 07:20:26
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| The way im understanding this Alex would be picking a team and his only scouting toools would be stats. I can see how Ice time would be a very important thing to consider. You know if a guy plays 20-30 minutea a game he is a very important player on his team. Also helps if lets say you have one year of stats and a player loged 25 minutes a game then got hurt his points might not be top notch at the end of the year but you know hes good or he would not have been given 25 minutes a game. |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 10:08:54
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I think you could combine icetime with other stats to make it valuable and find a trend. If there is a 3rd or 4th liner with a very higher point-per-minute average then others of his position it is time to give him a chance on the scoring lines, at leas to just test it out. I believe the guy deserves a chance if he is out performing even the offensive talents on his team per-minute. Or another could be PIM per icetime, if there is a good player on your team with high penalty minutes (ie- Getzlaf) but there is a guy who plays 1/4 of the time he does but has say 3/4 of the amount of penalty minutes of Getzlaf then my friend this is bad trend to have, and I don't want this type of guy on my team.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 11:07:09
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Here is the most useful stats in the game:
Wins : Does your team win more often than the lose and do they win enough??
If Not:
Team offense, defense, and special teams. Which area is weak.
If Offensive - How well do your players score??
If Defensive - How well do your players stop from the other players from scoring?
If Special Teams - See combination of the two above.
The rest of the stats are really irrelevant to the players. Really, I would think if few if any players that would not give up any stat, record, or whatever else to win Stanley Cups.
Stats are just for use arm chair GM's to complain about or prop up a players abilities. In the end, most players with good stats are good players. That's just logically. Good stats are a symptom of good play. However, there are very few stats that can measure a players abilities defensively, grit, determination, heart, and any other intangibles.
Do you win or lose?? That is the only imporant stat to any Pro Hockey player. |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 12:35:44
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Beans other then a goalie show me a players stat line that says how many games "He Won" and a single player does not win a game most nights.
Also remember Alex is saying if he had to pick a team of unknowns according to personal stats. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 15:06:02
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January 13, 2008
You tend to ignore trade rumours, or trades in general – seeing as the majority of transactions don’t involve ‘impact players’ – until they’re about your team. But let’s be honest about it: you’ve all heard about the Lecavalier rumour by now.
Depending on who you go by, the trade involves Plekanec, Higgins, Gorges / P.K. Suban and draft picks in return for Vincent Lecavalier (and someone told me Jussi Jokinen, but a quick Google search couldn’t verify that.) Frankly, there’s so much to be said about this deal.
1) On player value alone, they’d be overpaying in the long run. You’d be hard-pressed to find someone who says otherwise. But it’s bleedingly obvious that the Canadiens are trying to win a Stanley Cup this year, and they’re willing to pay for it.
2) That theory works if it’s a sure-fire thing, or the closest thing to that in a world lacking That’s-So-Raven visions. However, if you look at the reasons the Canadiens lost last year, it was for two reasons: lack of muscle, and shaky goaltending. Others would say the power play failed them, but that’s just a lack of experience thing. In any case, it wasn't because they needed a Lecavalier.
In the off-season, the team addressed the need for a physical presence and got themselves George Laraque. Anyways I don’t think there are many, if any, Eastern teams capable of punching their way through a best-of-seven the way last year’s Flyers did.
But in terms of defence, has the team really addressed their problems? Don’t get me wrong. They have an incredible one-two in Markov and Komisarek. And compared to the other blue lines in the league, theirs is pretty spiffy. But you need to remember that Price might need more that, if last year’s train wreck is to be any measure.
They’ve already got a royal flush on forward. Any of their top seven forwards could legitimately play on a top line on any given team in the league. Adding Lecavalier at the expense of Higgins and Plekanec is something they can afford depth wise because it effectively gives them 3-4 guys that can be counted on to score a big goal in any game. That’s nuts.
3) Brownie points to anyone who can find me a reliable source as to what the Hossa trade deal looked like, but I seem to recall Waddell driving a harder bargain than the package owners Dumb and Dumber are willing to give their blessing to. If that any consolation...
Personally, I want to see this trade happen only because I’m stuck on how talented this team would be for the remainder of the season. It’s highway robbery in the long run though, barring a Stanley Cup. |
Edited by - Alex on 01/13/2009 15:08:29 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 19:19:22
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Alex, as usual, I have to completely disagree with you:
1) Plekanec and Higgins are not 1st line players on most teams. In fact, I personally believe that other than Kovalev and Tanguay, most every other Habs forward would be on the 2nd line on at least 60% of the teams in the NHL. Saying their top 7 forwards are all 1st line players is completely bias.
2) The deal is not overpaying by any means. Plekanec and Higgins are both RFA's this coming season. PK Subban has a reasonable value today because of the World Juniors, but he really doesn't appear to have the kind of game that will flourish at the NHL level. I can see him being a career 4th-5th d-man. Gorges would be a tough loss because he is a young and capable d-man, but you have to give something to get something. Plus obviously a draft pick or two. That's the going rate for one of the top 5 most complete players in the league today.
3) Why would Montreal not want to take a shot at the Cup this year. Obviously, adding Lecavalier is not a sure Cup, but it wouldn't hurt. However, and more importantly, take a look at what Montreal's roster looks like for next year. No Tanguay, Kovalev, Lang, Koivu, Begin, Kostopoulos, Boullion, Dandenault, Komisarek, and Brisebois as they are UFA's. Some will stay but I wouldn't be surprised to see most of them leave. Then, and Higgins, Plecanek, Latendresse, Chipchura, and D'Angostini as RFA's. Why not go after Lecavalier and start the rebuild early around him, Price, Markov, and Hamrlik???
4) To answer your Hossa question, he and Pascal Dupuis were traded from ATL to PITT for Erik Christensen, Colby Armstrong, Angelo Esposito, and a 1st round pick. Obviously not as much as what this potential TB/MONT deal is, but you also have to remember a couple of things. Firstly, Hossa was due to become a free agent in the off season. Lecavalier on the other hand, is about to step into a deal for the next decade+. Also, it's not 7 minutes before the trade deadline. The value of players always drops at the deadline.
In the end, I personally think that this would be a decent deal for both teams. You have to give something to get something, and I think that both teams would benefit by getting what they are looking for. Montreal would get a superduper star, who just happens to be a marketing dream in Montreal as a French Canadian. Tampa Bay gets more players to trade around the league and the owners get to keep on playing fantasy hockey manager! |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2009 : 20:30:59
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I don't mind Higgins being traded, since he hasn't been in the line up as of late and I don't seem to miss as much with the new kids in there. As for Plekanec it would be sad to see him leave, but really he would be replaced by Vinny. It will be bad to see Gorges go, not only for his abilities on the ice, but he is really good in the dressing room and the team is just getting along good right now. Subban would definitely be great to have on the team when Hammer and Brisbeois and Dandy all go. The organization has depth, I say we go for it.
But may I remind you they did not make an offer as Gainey stated in an interview. Nor do we know if Lecavalier will join the team.
But I guess the man who once played the role of Jean Beliveau in the movie 'The Rocket' will have to change his number for the legendary #4 is hanging in the rafters of the Bell Centre.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 07:52:37
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Lecavalier goes to Montreal for a couple of 2nd liners, a character role player and a prospect or two?
Sounds like a great deal for Montreal, a good deal for TB. Win-win, and all of french canada goes nuts over their boy.
Higgins and Plekanec might play on Toronto's first line, but that's not saying very much. They are solid second-liners, IMO.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 14:31:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Alex, as usual, I have to completely disagree with you:
1) Plekanec and Higgins are not 1st line players on most teams. In fact, I personally believe that other than Kovalev and Tanguay, most every other Habs forward would be on the 2nd line on at least 60% of the teams in the NHL. Saying their top 7 forwards are all 1st line players is completely bias.
2) The deal is not overpaying by any means. Plekanec and Higgins are both RFA's this coming season. PK Subban has a reasonable value today because of the World Juniors, but he really doesn't appear to have the kind of game that will flourish at the NHL level. I can see him being a career 4th-5th d-man. Gorges would be a tough loss because he is a young and capable d-man, but you have to give something to get something. Plus obviously a draft pick or two. That's the going rate for one of the top 5 most complete players in the league today.
3) Why would Montreal not want to take a shot at the Cup this year. Obviously, adding Lecavalier is not a sure Cup, but it wouldn't hurt. However, and more importantly, take a look at what Montreal's roster looks like for next year. No Tanguay, Kovalev, Lang, Koivu, Begin, Kostopoulos, Boullion, Dandenault, Komisarek, and Brisebois as they are UFA's. Some will stay but I wouldn't be surprised to see most of them leave. Then, and Higgins, Plecanek, Latendresse, Chipchura, and D'Angostini as RFA's. Why not go after Lecavalier and start the rebuild early around him, Price, Markov, and Hamrlik???
4) To answer your Hossa question, he and Pascal Dupuis were traded from ATL to PITT for Erik Christensen, Colby Armstrong, Angelo Esposito, and a 1st round pick. Obviously not as much as what this potential TB/MONT deal is, but you also have to remember a couple of things. Firstly, Hossa was due to become a free agent in the off season. Lecavalier on the other hand, is about to step into a deal for the next decade+. Also, it's not 7 minutes before the trade deadline. The value of players always drops at the deadline.
In the end, I personally think that this would be a decent deal for both teams. You have to give something to get something, and I think that both teams would benefit by getting what they are looking for. Montreal would get a superduper star, who just happens to be a marketing dream in Montreal as a French Canadian. Tampa Bay gets more players to trade around the league and the owners get to keep on playing fantasy hockey manager!
How often do you ''completely disagree'' with me that you can say 'as usual?' I think that's a little harsh. 
But anyways.
1) Plekanec has 20 points this season. That's more than at least one first line player on about half the teams in the league. And yes. I am allowed to be biased as a Habs fan, but I would put him above many of those who have 5-6 more points than him, and in some cases, even more points. As I said previously, points aren't a gauge by which to measure a player's skill.
2) If you notice, I said ''on player value alone.'' I think that Higgins, Plekanec, Gorges, Subban, and whatever Tampa can pick up in multiple draft picks (more than one first rounder I think) would be better than Lecavalier alone. Even if ONE of those players exceeds expectations, or if a draft pick ends up picking up a Lecavalier-like player, and the rest stay the same or even drop off production slightly, you're looking at a one-ended deal for T.B., player value alone.
3) I meant the Hossa trade offer to Montreal. I would have Googled the Hossa-Pittsburgh trade if I needed it.
Go Habs Go! |
Edited by - Alex on 01/14/2009 14:32:03 |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 16:24:36
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i would offer kostitsyn, kostitsyn plekanec and subban for Lecavalier,, Higgens i think has some real valu especially for chemistry and team atmosphere the kostitsyn's are vastly overated i am really not worried about loseing either of them and i could be wrong but i would trade them now while they are worth something pleakanec is great gotta love hes just haveing an off year but Vinny can fill his size 10 's with his size 25 feet,,, and beans took the words right out of my mouth,, subban looks great in the juniors but he'd look like a moron with those no look passes and spin o rama i'd go as far to say he never becomes a nhl regular then that leaves our our lines as follows for the cup run
D'agostini Lecavlaier Tanguay
Pacirorty Lang Kovalev
Higgens Koivu Latendress
Kostopoulos Lapierre Laraque/Begin
Markov Komisarek
Hamirlik Brisebois
Boullion Georges
Price
Halak
pretty spiffy one more solid d man and this is a tough team to beat in 7 games
Pasty |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 16:45:28
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Alex, chill my brother. I completely disagree with almost everyone all the time. No disrespect intended towards your or your opinions. I just disagree is all.
And the thing I disagree with is that the deal is so one sided, because it's not. A Lecavalier type player comes along very rarely. A guy that can literally do anything all over the ice. There are maybe 5 or 6 guys that are as good as Lecavalier in all facets of the game. Even if I conceed that Plekanec is a 1st line player, the deal is still pretty fair.
Take the names out of the list (and the team for that matter) and tell me if this trade is fair:
1 - Marginal First Line Player
1- Strong 2nd line player
1- 3 spot defenseman
1- defensive prospect would can skate but do little else
A couple of draft picks (more than likely later 1st round or early 2nd round)
for
One of the top 5 players in the league
and
a quality 2nd round player.
If I am a GM, I am making that deal for the Superduperstar. Seriously, the other players are available through other means. The deal is fair, and make sense for a teams long term plans. Especially if you consider that team has over 1/2 of their team as UFA's or RFA's next season.
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Guest9278
( )
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Posted - 01/14/2009 : 16:47:14
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| Kostytsin.... overated? Andrei is arguably the best canadian foward behind kovalev (only when kovi plays tho) and his contract is very low. his last 10 games he is ripping it up. Higgins? chemestry? the guy is a veteran... and yet he has yet to score more than 40 points in a year. he is probly going to ask for a raise to.... HIGGINGS is the MOST overrated player in the league and his value is rather higher than it should be so therefore why keep him? |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 17:29:55
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| I am not sure if I would make that deal as originally stated either. I look at the habs lineup and think they have to give up to much for Lecavalier. It would likely involve dumping more in the future to meet contract obligations. I think giving up the players mentioned takes too much from the secondary scoring for the habs and leaves alot on 2 players(Kovalev, Lecavalier). I know your going say they have Tanguay and Lang also but you must admit both are a little past there peak and Kovalev better find something in his gifted hockey sense to make a big impact this year as well.. I think if they pull that deal off they reduce their chances at the cup this year. However they then could make the moves in the offseason to retool somewhat and take a serious shot next year with Lecavalier. I could be wrong but that is the gut feeling. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 17:34:11
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| I must also add that I would love to see Lecavalier come north of the border, he is a great player and it would be great to see him play more often on the old HNIC. |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 17:49:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
i would offer kostitsyn, kostitsyn plekanec and subban for Lecavalier,, Higgens i think has some real valu especially for chemistry and team atmosphere the kostitsyn's are vastly overated i am really not worried about loseing either of them and i could be wrong but i would trade them now while they are worth something pleakanec is great gotta love hes just haveing an off year but Vinny can fill his size 10 's with his size 25 feet,,, and beans took the words right out of my mouth,, subban looks great in the juniors but he'd look like a moron with those no look passes and spin o rama i'd go as far to say he never becomes a nhl regular then that leaves our our lines as follows for the cup run
D'agostini Lecavlaier Tanguay
Pacirorty Lang Kovalev
Higgens Koivu Latendress
Kostopoulos Lapierre Laraque/Begin
Markov Komisarek
Hamirlik Brisebois
Boullion Georges
Price
Halak
pretty spiffy one more solid d man and this is a tough team to beat in 7 games
Pasty
Not bad lines, but I say switch Latendresse and D'Agostini. If i were Carbonneau I would get Latendresse around this guy as much as possible. Vinny could mentor this guy into a good player, and reach his potential.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
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Canada - Russia rap 
