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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
 Posted - 04/28/2008 : 00:16:37
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I think he is the biggest cancer for goaltenders. I played goalie, and I basically had a general rule, if you are not, or were not a moderately higher level goalie, DO NOT CRITICIZE THEM.
Keenan's treatment of Kipper was disgraceful. All year round he kept calling out Mikka, thinking it would make mikka respond. Did he ever think that encouragement or confidence would work better..
As for his pulling antics, has he ever heard of a timeout? Unless the goalie is REALLY having having a bad game, there are 20 other players on the team who it is more constructive to make an example of......What does he think Kipper WANTS to let goals in? 99% of goalies TRY their hardest every game, but the pressure can mount sometimes. What I can say from experience, is it's substantially easier to deal with pressure when you know you have support from your coach, rather than If you have some d*** who never played goal, yet has crackpot theories on how to deal with goalies, breathing down your neck, ready to embarress you in front of the media/teammates.
Keenans behavior may have been understandable 40 years ago, but now-a-days? Not to mention the fact that Kipper seemed to perform much better when he had coaches that just let him do his thing, and worried about the other 20 players.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day!
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Guest4152
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Posted - 04/28/2008 : 07:02:28
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| All you Keenan haters, you are missing something. Your beloved flames had just gone down 4-2, game 7 and were being terribly outplayed. While Kipper was not totally at fault, he let in 4 goals. I, repeat game 7, your team needed more than a timeout............... In closing all I can say is Lets go Oilers Lets go.......LOL |
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Gostarsgo12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 07:05:05
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I agree with you on this one. Keenan didn't really impress me this season behind the bench. I didnt think he got the best of some of his players like obviously Kipper, Lombardi, Huselius and even Phanuef in the playoffs. Kipper had a terrible year and this team was led by Jarome the whole way.
Go Stars!!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 10:03:42
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Mike Keenan is an exception coach. Let me rephrase that, Mike Keenan is one of the top 5 coaches to ever coach the game. No question.
LIke it or not, that is his style and he has won plenty. He will pass Pat Quinn next season to take over #3 in games and wins. That leaves only Arbour and Bowman ahead of Keenan. Pretty tight company. He took teams to the playoffs 11 straight years, to the finals three times, and won the Cup in 94.
He has alway treated goalie this way. He treats them like any other player. The just like a "skater" who plays poorly, they sit on the bench.
Agree or not, he's in Calgary to stay. Sutter and Keenan have worked together before and Sutter has said that Keenan is his guy.
And what kind of crap is that only a former goalie can be critical of a goalie?? That is just garbage. The best "coaches" in the world in most any sport are not great at the thing they coach, they are just good coaches. Think of golf coaches. Do you think Butch Harmon is that great of a golfer?? No. But he sure can make a great golfer better.
I wonder why there are no great coaches, or coaches in general that were former goalies???
Hmmmmmm.
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Guest4480
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Posted - 04/28/2008 : 10:35:35
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pulling Kipper worked in game three (or was that a bad choice as well), Maybe Calgary should hire a therapist to help their goalies deal with their hurt feelings because Big Bad Mike Keenan was mean to him  |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 11:11:32
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alright, I rephrase that...NO COACH should be critical of their goalie.....How is that productive is my question? Ya maybe some goalies will respond to getting pushed around positively, but I assure you MORE will respond to positive support.
I repeate this: what can be gained by calling out your goalie? You only have 2 of them...Unlike a player, most goalies are well aware of their mistakes, it's a little more clear. A forward may not realize they are making small mistakes, and ya, a coach may be more able to point it out.
As for saying keenan's one of the bst coaches ever...No chance! He must have severe issues if he can win a stanley cup, and then get fired like, 2 weeks after...He also made it to the finals with philly, and got axed right after...And as a GM.....Well Luongo for Bertuzzi.....Great trade Mike.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 12:22:21
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
alright, I rephrase that...NO COACH should be critical of their goalie.....How is that productive is my question? Ya maybe some goalies will respond to getting pushed around positively, but I assure you MORE will respond to positive support.
I repeate this: what can be gained by calling out your goalie? You only have 2 of them...Unlike a player, most goalies are well aware of their mistakes, it's a little more clear. A forward may not realize they are making small mistakes, and ya, a coach may be more able to point it out.
As for saying keenan's one of the bst coaches ever...No chance! He must have severe issues if he can win a stanley cup, and then get fired like, 2 weeks after...He also made it to the finals with philly, and got axed right after...And as a GM.....Well Luongo for Bertuzzi.....Great trade Mike.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day!
Ya, it is interesting that he wins everywhere he goes but gets fired shortly there after. Ever notice that those teams that he gets fired from usually tank after he leaves???
And that Luongo trade maybe was done my Keenan, but it was a power struggle between him and Jacques Martin. Keenan quit like 5 minutes after the deal was done.
And Roberto Luongo's quote on Keenan switching goalies:
“Not a big deal. [Keenan] does it so much that we expect it. If he’s your coach and you’re an NHL goalie on the bench, you have to be ready, just in case.”
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 16:01:24
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
alright, I rephrase that...NO COACH should be critical of their goalie.....How is that productive is my question? Ya maybe some goalies will respond to getting pushed around positively, but I assure you MORE will respond to positive support.
I repeate this: what can be gained by calling out your goalie? You only have 2 of them...Unlike a player, most goalies are well aware of their mistakes, it's a little more clear. A forward may not realize they are making small mistakes, and ya, a coach may be more able to point it out.
As for saying keenan's one of the bst coaches ever...No chance! He must have severe issues if he can win a stanley cup, and then get fired like, 2 weeks after...He also made it to the finals with philly, and got axed right after...And as a GM.....Well Luongo for Bertuzzi.....Great trade Mike.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day!
i'm torn between the two sides here,,,, i too ihc am a longtime goalie and played and play on some pretty competative teams,, in my early years when the dream of the nhl was all i thought about i must admit all i had were keenan type coach who i felt stiffled me all the way,,, i'm an english named and speaking (although my french is very good) goalie in quebec and i felt coachs were rough on me pulling me quickly and cutting me from teams all throughout,,, but today i'm now 20,,,, i realize i never had it to go to the nhl with hockey i have matured and i think the coachs that told my parents i should quit the crease when i was young are begging me to protect their net,,,, i remember one time getting pulled after 2 goals,,, the first was a 2 on 1 my d man didn;t get the pass and sliding over for a shot i got beat top shelf and the second was a pass infront my d man batted into my own net alla brian mcabbe ,,,, coach pulled me,, i was furious ,,,, and when my coach came to see me i just looked at him and said dont you dare embarass me like that again,,,, he benched me for the rest of the year,,,,, i didn;t see another game till the other goalie broke his hand in the playoffs first game,,,, i won the playoff mvp that year,,,,, so sure i ahted missing a half season of hockey but i guess you could say what the coach did pissed me off enough to play welll.....
Pasty |
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Guest4043
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Posted - 04/28/2008 : 22:18:32
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Only a goalie would say that goalies are untouchable. Goalies need to be held accountable for their play. Coaches at the NHL level probably know a little something about goaltending and goaltenders, not to mention they have assistant coaches and goalie coaches to review their tender's play. And by your logic only a former defensman can critique a defenseman, and a center can critique a centerman. it's redonkulous!
it's knowing the player that matters. Different people respond differently to the same method, so it's knowing what method works for each team member. Kipper is a cool cat and he didn't look too phased by Keenans comments. |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 16:47:50
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IHC, I know what your saying, but Tsn and whatever other networks don't talk about how goalies are treated so well and praised for their games. They talk about the fact that Kipper wasn't having an amazing season and that Keenan was upset with him. How boring would it be to watch 5 minutes of: Keenan was happy with his goalies play, Maurice was happy with Toskala last night, Carbonneau amazed at Price's performance. All those networks would lose viewers.
Also, why should a goalie get praised for having a bad first half of a season. I can picture it now "Good night Kipper, 5 goals on 12 shots, way to go buddy."
I am a goalie and all I can say is, I appreciate constructive criticism more than I appreciate praise. It builds a better goalie.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 23:45:09
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Yes CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is OK.....But remarks like, "our goalie needs to play better", are just criticism.
look, all and all, just letting the goalie do his thing is the best idea for a coach...Goalies are typically different than the other players, and should be treated differently...And I don't personally think non-goalies get it.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 08:26:40
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I absolutely agree that non-goalies don't get it, and they shouldn't. I agree that the goalie is a very important position and may be the most important player on the ice at times. However, each player regardless of position has a responsibility. If a player is not doing what they should they need to get called out, goalie or not.
Why is hockey different than any other sport??? A pitcher in baseball is playing poorly, they get benched. A QB, they get benched too. A point guard in basketball, benched.
All players in all other sports get criticized when they play poorly.
Why the hell should a goalie be any different??
This is a steaming pant load in my opinion. |
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mAdCapper
Top Prospect
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 11:17:54
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Would it be fair to say that you expect your second highest paid player to do something to win?
Iggy did, Phaneuf did...where was the stolen game by Kipper? Kipper let in the softest of goals and was down quicker than a hooker in central park on the other three.
As a Flames fan and a Kipper fan it stung to see Kip play like that and to get yanked, but I agree with it 100%. He needed to shut the door when SJ came out the way they did and he didn't. |
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Mike Keenan, just leave 
