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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
 Posted - 09/25/2008 : 12:33:12
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Poll Question:
What player do you think is the best player of all times?
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Edited by - willus3 on 09/29/2008 09:16:44
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2008 : 12:51:54
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| Who brought that dead horse back to life? |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2008 : 13:36:31
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Judging by the choices, probably someone related to Sergei Fedorov.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2008 : 16:35:59
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| I think Gordie Howe or Wayne Gretzky.But i choose wayne. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2008 : 16:59:42
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Bobby Orr is the best player I have seen thus far.
I would then choose Lemieux, then Howe and then Gretzky.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2008 : 17:55:34
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Wayne Gretzky is the best in my opinion. Then Bobby Orr, Mario Lemiuex, Gordie Howe, and Mark Messier in that order.
But let's not get into this dance again. There are too many things we have not debated yet! |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2008 : 03:20:44
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| My order is Gretzky,Howe,Orr,Lemiuex,Messier....Thats why order |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2008 : 08:38:12
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Something's fishy when Richard has 33% of the vote.
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Guest0471
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Posted - 09/28/2008 : 09:37:17
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| Bobby Orr is the best simply because he won 5 stanley cups on sub par team. Also he holds the record for highest plus minus being 124 in a single season. He also holds the record for most points by a defence man being 139 in a single season . He put up all these points back when defencemen didn't get too many points .He changed the whole game for defenceman. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2008 : 14:51:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0471
Bobby Orr is the best simply because he won 5 stanley cups on sub par team. Also he holds the record for highest plus minus being 124 in a single season. He also holds the record for most points by a defence man being 139 in a single season . He put up all these points back when defencemen didn't get too many points .He changed the whole game for defenceman.
I am not getting into this arguement, I swear I am not. However, I wanted to clear up a couple of inaccuracies in this.
Firstly, Mr. Orr's Bruins won 2 Cups, not 5. (69-70 and 71-72). For you trivia buffs out there, Orr also scored the winning goal in both of those Stanley Cup victories. The only other team that Orr played for was Chicago, who have not won a Cup since 1960.
That being said, to say that the Bruin teams that won those 2 Cups were Sub-Par is laughable. C'mon! Phil Esposito, Ken Hodge, Johhny, Bucyk, and Gerry Cheevers make far from a sub-par team. I think all but Hodge are Hall of Famers.
I won't argue who you think is the greatest of all time, but let's make sure the facts are straight. |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2008 : 11:44:55
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| I edited poll and put Guy Lafluer in now.Just to let ya know. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2008 : 13:01:48
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Wow Fedorov is geting some votes. The Great One is my choice for sure, but fedorov might be a close second, JK JK
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 10:58:18
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| I know Fedorov is getting some votes.WOW!!!Well actually i should of voted for Orr,forgot about him. |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2008 : 14:12:23
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| orr better then gretzky.i didnt see orr.i forgot i pur him there. |
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Guest2220
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Posted - 10/11/2008 : 06:28:17
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| i choose orr. |
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Guest4797
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Posted - 10/12/2008 : 23:51:52
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| Just look at the record book. Gretzky, no questions asked. |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2008 : 13:04:30
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| phillyfan12 lots of other people make this type of poll so why did you make this poll. |
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Guest2254
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Posted - 10/13/2008 : 13:05:59
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| There is lots of changes in another one like this orr and gretzky were very close,but in this poll there not close,plus i added federov. |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2008 : 13:07:12
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| No you just copied it thats all. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2008 : 10:21:42
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Gretzky is the best forward ever and Orr is the best defenceman simple as that. I for one am tired of seeing this same arguement day after day on this forums.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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sensfan1
Top Prospect
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2008 : 14:34:42
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| Not downplay anything Gretzky accomplished but he posted a 1.92 point per game average over his career being healthy for the most part of it. Lemieux posted a 1.88 point per game over his career which included many unhealthy years. Imagine what type of numbers he would have accomplished if he's had a long healthy career. |
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Guest2264
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Posted - 10/14/2008 : 15:00:54
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| I think Howe is the best player on the list |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2008 : 15:23:26
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| Howe maybe but Orr is better in my opinion. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 15:18:51
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Another topic that is just getting out of control, it is a matter of opinion who is better you don't have to continue arguing untill everyone agrees with you. Why would you give all those options if you didn't want anyone to choose from them.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Edited by - Canucks Man on 10/15/2008 15:25:37 |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 04:45:52
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These young brothers are really starting to water down the forums. They are not only arguing with each other, but in some cases, with themselves. Neither one is able to articulate a cohesive or original thought, or bring anything of value to the forums. Might I suggest that the two of them spend less time online, and more on homework?
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:01:44
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| Guys i'm just asking whick player is better,i bet u made polls like this before. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 13:52:36
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quote:
Originally posted by PhillyFan12
Guys i'm just asking whick player is better,i bet u made polls like this before.
We may have made polls but we didn't post every other comment to up our post count and argue with everybody about everything.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 14:06:29
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I really thing there should be an age limit on these forums. Actually, some of the very best posters are very young so I think all members should have to have a trial period and if they don't pass, they get kicked off the site. I can think of a couple members who wouldn't pass.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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Guest2264
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Posted - 10/16/2008 : 17:37:42
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| Please dont do anything to this poll,this poll rocks |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 18:05:39
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New members and guests - Please read this:
Please read our forum rules and guidelines: http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2160
These are very important guidelines that keep the conversation moving and interesting.
Regular members - Please read this:
Those of you who have been around for a full year will know that this happens every year at this time as the new season starts and a rush of new people join up. Please be patient for a few weeks as things settle into place. Be gentle in your education of the new posters.  |
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Guest2264
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Posted - 10/17/2008 : 11:47:51
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yeah i read the rules.
(ADMIN EDIT - You may have read them but I highly doubt that you UNDERSTOOD the guidelines. If you had, you would not have posted this) |
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Guest7627
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Posted - 10/17/2008 : 15:30:19
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Orr hands down.
No offense to either Gretzky or Lemieux, but honestly most goalies in the 80's and earlier 90's were not much more than pylons. It had upwards of double the offense of any other era in hockey and defense was not empahsized nearly as it was now or back in Orr's day. Orr did his feats back before the league goaltending was watered down, he was fast as hell, could shoot, pass, and play solid D at any time. Sadly his career end after 8 seasons. I watch many tapes of him and was amazed at stuff he was doing.
Gretzky had a LOT of support on him team, any person would agree.. They were stacked outright. In a defensive minded game like now or back then in a gritty game, He might not even top the league in scoring, he was small, and wasn't skilled in anything more than your average player was. He had smarts for the puck for sure. All of it is arguable and he has numbers, but I have my doubts since he played his whole career in high offense crappy goaltending hockey.
Lemieux is one of those what if players. What if he wasn't injured. What if he played as much as Gretzky. Bottom line is he as well played in some of the highest scoring eras of hockey. He did have a good support (not so much as Gretzky by any means). Again in this day and age I really do not think he would put up anywhere near the numbers he did back then in his prime.
But all of this is an endless arguement, since playing in different eras of hockey, different systems of play, goaltending etc, ultimately affects how players perform and such. The debate will last for a long time, unless some player comes along one day and topples all of these players great feats |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2008 : 16:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7627
Orr hands down.
No offense to either Gretzky or Lemieux, but honestly most goalies in the 80's and earlier 90's were not much more than pylons. It had upwards of double the offense of any other era in hockey and defense was not empahsized nearly as it was now or back in Orr's day. Orr did his feats back before the league goaltending was watered down, he was fast as hell, could shoot, pass, and play solid D at any time. Sadly his career end after 8 seasons. I watch many tapes of him and was amazed at stuff he was doing.
Gretzky had a LOT of support on him team, any person would agree.. They were stacked outright. In a defensive minded game like now or back then in a gritty game, He might not even top the league in scoring, he was small, and wasn't skilled in anything more than your average player was. He had smarts for the puck for sure. All of it is arguable and he has numbers, but I have my doubts since he played his whole career in high offense crappy goaltending hockey.
Lemieux is one of those what if players. What if he wasn't injured. What if he played as much as Gretzky. Bottom line is he as well played in some of the highest scoring eras of hockey. He did have a good support (not so much as Gretzky by any means). Again in this day and age I really do not think he would put up anywhere near the numbers he did back then in his prime.
But all of this is an endless arguement, since playing in different eras of hockey, different systems of play, goaltending etc, ultimately affects how players perform and such. The debate will last for a long time, unless some player comes along one day and topples all of these players great feats
I have a couple of arguements on this. Look at what Gretzky did in the mid to late 90's This period was the lowest scoring in NHL history and Gretzky was still very near the top of the league in scoring. After the age of 30, Gretzky had 594 points in 488 games. This is 1.21 PPG playing with far weaker teams in LA, St. Louis, and NYR than with the Oilers. And, I also think the arguement that Gretzky played in a higher scoring era with a stacked team is a little bit weak. Reason being is that yes, the league was more offensively driven and yes, the players in Edmonton were basically an All Star team. That being said, Gretzky was almost lapping the field each year in scoring. He was 50-70 points ahead of the next closest guy.
Regardless, I agree that Orr was most definately the best defenseman who will ever play the game, and although I think Gretzky the best player of all time, Orr is only slightly behind.
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Guest9244
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Posted - 10/23/2008 : 12:05:06
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| Lemieux is the best player of all time. Consider for the first 5-6 years of his career he played on a line with the likes of Terry Ruskowski, Bob Eerie or however he spells it, etc. Not to mention he had cancer during the prime of his career, had such bad back pain (also during the prime years of his career) that he could not even bend over to tie up his own skates. Had Lemieux played with a winger like Jarri Kurri and a D-man like Paul Coffey for as many years as Gretzky did, the record books would be completely different. True Lemieux did receive offensive help in the 90's when the Penguins were actually a strong team, they were complete s*** for his first 6 seasons unlike Gretzky's oilers who were competitors from the get go. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 12:50:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9244
Lemieux is the best player of all time. Consider for the first 5-6 years of his career he played on a line with the likes of Terry Ruskowski, Bob Eerie or however he spells it, etc. Not to mention he had cancer during the prime of his career, had such bad back pain (also during the prime years of his career) that he could not even bend over to tie up his own skates. Had Lemieux played with a winger like Jarri Kurri and a D-man like Paul Coffey for as many years as Gretzky did, the record books would be completely different. True Lemieux did receive offensive help in the 90's when the Penguins were actually a strong team, they were complete s*** for his first 6 seasons unlike Gretzky's oilers who were competitors from the get go.
Wrong. Wrong, Wrong.
Gretzky joined the Oilers in 78-79 when they were still in WHA. That team had the likes of Ron Chipperfield, Blair MacDonald, Brett Callighan, and Bill Fletts. Talk about an offensively talented group!!! Messier started the year after and dropping in a staggering 33 points. The following year was when Kurri and Anderson were added to the mix. Still, no other Oiler scored more than 75 points while Gretzky notched 164. After that season (now into 81-82) was when Coffey arrived. Gretzky (212 points) and Coffey (105) were the only Oilers to hit over 90 points.
All through these years, 79-80 through 81-82, the Oilers failed to make it out of the 2nd round of the play offs. And it wasn't until 82-83 they were a serious threat to win the Cup. So, for Gretkzy's first 4 professional season(1 in the WHA and 3 in the NHL) he was playing on an average team at best.
Not at all saying that Gretzky's Oilers were not better than Lemiuex's Penguins off the start. They were. But the Oilers were far from a powerhouse team from "the get go."
Also, Lemiuex played 5 seasons with Coffey, while Gretzky played 7. Not that huge of a difference. And how quickly one forgets about Marios's wingman. Jagr in one of the most gifted offensive players to ever play the game. Better than Kurri.
I can not, nor will not argue that Lemieux had an injury plagued career. however, I don't think "the record book" would have been re-written if he didn't. Just my opinion.
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 13:16:29
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We've had this conversation over and over again. May I just quickly rhyme off a few players Lemeiux had the honor of playing with over his career....
Jagr
Coffey
Francis
Murphy
Stevens
Trotts
Mullen
Recchi
Kovalev
These aren't a bunch of amateurs he's played with. I too agree that injuries held him back but please don't say lack of support kept him from beating out someone like Gretz. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 15:54:07
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this topic will be debated forever and ever by generation after generation each with their own reasons to pick the best. Be it stats or hardware or all-star appearances it is hard to truly pick the best ever even now because of the evolution of the game.
In my opinion, because in my generation he was the best player who played the game and the stats and hardware and records show him to be the best ever, the best player ever is Gretzky.
In the future this debate is going to include Crosby, Ovechkin and maybe even John Tavares |
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Guest9227
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Posted - 10/23/2008 : 16:15:14
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| Best all around player? Surprising Bob Gainey isn't on that list! |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2008 : 17:58:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Wrong. Wrong, Wrong.
Gretzky joined the Oilers in 78-79 when they were still in WHA. That team had the likes of Ron Chipperfield, Blair MacDonald, Brett Callighan, and Bill Fletts. Talk about an offensively talented group!!! Messier started the year after and dropping in a staggering 33 points. The following year was when Kurri and Anderson were added to the mix. Still, no other Oiler scored more than 75 points while Gretzky notched 164. After that season (now into 81-82) was when Coffey arrived. Gretzky (212 points) and Coffey (105) were the only Oilers to hit over 90 points.
All through these years, 79-80 through 81-82, the Oilers failed to make it out of the 2nd round of the play offs. And it wasn't until 82-83 they were a serious threat to win the Cup. So, for Gretkzy's first 4 professional season(1 in the WHA and 3 in the NHL) he was playing on an average team at best.
Not at all saying that Gretzky's Oilers were not better than Lemiuex's Penguins off the start. They were. But the Oilers were far from a powerhouse team from "the get go."
Also, Lemiuex played 5 seasons with Coffey, while Gretzky played 7. Not that huge of a difference. And how quickly one forgets about Marios's wingman. Jagr in one of the most gifted offensive players to ever play the game. Better than Kurri.
I can not, nor will not argue that Lemieux had an injury plagued career. however, I don't think "the record book" would have been re-written if he didn't. Just my opinion.
I hate it when people say this about MacDonald and Callighan. They get unfairly maligned. Both were very decent hockey players actually. Both had a pretty good nose for the net. People make them out to be scrubs and it just isn't true. |
Edited by - willus3 on 10/23/2008 17:59:21 |
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Guest5276
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Posted - 10/23/2008 : 22:56:52
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| Gary Rissling |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2008 : 08:38:03
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Wrong. Wrong, Wrong.
Gretzky joined the Oilers in 78-79 when they were still in WHA. That team had the likes of Ron Chipperfield, Blair MacDonald, Brett Callighan, and Bill Fletts. Talk about an offensively talented group!!! Messier started the year after and dropping in a staggering 33 points. The following year was when Kurri and Anderson were added to the mix. Still, no other Oiler scored more than 75 points while Gretzky notched 164. After that season (now into 81-82) was when Coffey arrived. Gretzky (212 points) and Coffey (105) were the only Oilers to hit over 90 points.
All through these years, 79-80 through 81-82, the Oilers failed to make it out of the 2nd round of the play offs. And it wasn't until 82-83 they were a serious threat to win the Cup. So, for Gretkzy's first 4 professional season(1 in the WHA and 3 in the NHL) he was playing on an average team at best.
Not at all saying that Gretzky's Oilers were not better than Lemiuex's Penguins off the start. They were. But the Oilers were far from a powerhouse team from "the get go."
Also, Lemiuex played 5 seasons with Coffey, while Gretzky played 7. Not that huge of a difference. And how quickly one forgets about Marios's wingman. Jagr in one of the most gifted offensive players to ever play the game. Better than Kurri.
I can not, nor will not argue that Lemieux had an injury plagued career. however, I don't think "the record book" would have been re-written if he didn't. Just my opinion.
I hate it when people say this about MacDonald and Callighan. They get unfairly maligned. Both were very decent hockey players actually. Both had a pretty good nose for the net. People make them out to be scrubs and it just isn't true.
Willus, you and I have battled enough on this. I just wanted to say that I was not indicating that MacDonald and Callighan were total pylons. However, I think we can both agree that they were not the most offensively gifted players in the mix. When you consider that most players who had the opportunity to play with Gretzky had very high production, MacDonald benefited far more from Gretzky than Gretzky did from MacDonald. Ultimately, looking at MacDonald, he had 94 points and 46 goals playing with Gretzky for one season. Prior to that, he never cracked 70 points in any pro league, and only broke 60 points twice. After leaving Gretzky's line, he never broke 45 points again.
Ultimately, I agree they were not total buckets, but I don't think you can say they were snipers either. |
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best NHL player EVER! 
