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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2008 : 16:53:43
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If I am not at work and not directly involved in any kind of work activity, then you damn rights I still have a job. It would be against the law for the company to fire me.
Let say for example that me and a buddy from work are going out to watch a hockey game and there is a blizzard outside. I lose control of my car and run into a lightpost. Unfortunately, but buddy is killed. It is found through the investigation that I was at fault for not driving to the conditions of the road. HOW THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MY JOB????
Let's have another example. I am an 18 yr old construction worker in Idaho just out of high school. When I was in high school, I was the starting QB of the state champion football team from Boise. I decide to go out on a week end and have a few beers with my buddies. We go to a bar and I get in without getting ID'ed. All of a sudden, the Cops come into the bar and notice me and know I am under age. They take me to the cop shop and charge me with under age drinking. WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH MY JOB???
I don't think some of you get it. In "the real world" there are many things that one can do on my free time that have no impact on their job, so why would it be different in the NHL?
On the other hand, if I stand up at a Company presentation and talk about the trend in the organization of people picking up my "sloppy seconds," you're damn right I will have to deal with some kind of negative consequence. Ultimately, that would go against most companies sexual harrassment policy and would more than likely lead to a suspension at the least. Hence my opinion that the NHL got this suspension dead right.
Now, any action that happens on the ice, you have a valid arguement on. Although I don't agree with you, I can't argue your opinion if you feel that some supensions(Bertuzzi/Moore) for example, were weak. However, if a hockey player does something stupid that has nothing to do with the sport or thier team, that's not any of the NHL's business to discipline. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 12/08/2008 17:54:29 |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 08:08:55
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Ha ha Beans. Your wife must hate arguing with you! You are never wrong! 
I can accept your argument and even agree with you. And I will try and be a man and accept that I may have been wrong!
HOWEVER, I still believe that since players are constantly in the public eye and are being looked up at and viewed as heroes by millions of kids, they HAVE to hold a higher moral standard. Underage drinking and drunk driving are NOT acceptable for someone that my kids look up to! (I don't have kids but if I did, it would not be acceptable) Now, is it the NHL's job to discipline them? Maybe not. But the players HAVE to understand that they cannot get away with things just cuz they are hockey players. And i believe that they have to hold a higher moral standard because of their influence on kids.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 14:59:32
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The question here, in my mind, is the way these things generally seem to be reacted to, is WAY out of whack with the reaction to other FAR more serious things.
I mean, noone is saying it this extremely so, what the hell, I will.
If a "sloppy seconds" comment gets you 6 games, why doesn't, for just one example, stepping on a player, border-line intentionally, a la Simon, get you AT LEAST 60 games? Is it not, AT LEAST, TEN TIMES worse an offense?
And don't give me "the 30 games Simon got is a lot" crap as an answer. When you think about in these terms, it's just five of Sean's sloppy ex girlfriends! |
Edited by - andyhack on 12/09/2008 15:01:15 |
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fanoleaf
Rookie
143 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 16:25:31
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Andy I agree with you that there are certainly worse incidents occurring in the NHL and they are not being given the same attention that this suspension has received. From the Simon incident, Bertuzzi to hits from behind. Something has to give here.
Regarding Avery, I think that the league has felt pressure to react to his multiple actions, he has received a lot of media attention because of his actions. We all know that the media craves guys like him, he is solely responsible for how many reporters jobs?? Another example is the Sundin saga.... but that's another story.
Is the "sloppy seconds" comment so bad? Probably not, but given the fact that he called the media in to make this statement, than yes it was done in bad taste and not in the forum that hockey / locker talk normally occurs in. I am sure there are worse things said in the locker rooms and on the ice. In this case, because of his track record and mostly because he made the comments to the media, the NHL and the team had to make a point and discipline.
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Ripley
PickupHockey Pro
USA
365 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 17:20:14
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quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
The question here, in my mind, is the way these things generally seem to be reacted to, is WAY out of whack with the reaction to other FAR more serious things.
I mean, noone is saying it this extremely so, what the hell, I will.
If a "sloppy seconds" comment gets you 6 games, why doesn't, for just one example, stepping on a player, border-line intentionally, a la Simon, get you AT LEAST 60 games? Is it not, AT LEAST, TEN TIMES worse an offense?
And don't give me "the 30 games Simon got is a lot" crap as an answer. When you think about in these terms, it's just five of Sean's sloppy ex girlfriends!
Andy don't even get me started about the Simon sitution. how then can Pronger do the same thing and get 0 games? Crazy. I will say exactly what you don't want people to say - 30 games IS a lot! It was too much, but he had it coming. Simon paid because of his reputation...and so has Avery. If it were anyone else who said what Avery said they would have gotten a lighter sentence but I can't think of anyone else who is that much of an idiot to even say such a thing in public. It's like OJ Simpson, he got 30 years!!! Are you kidding me!? Like Avery he's paying the price for his previous get out of jail free card. If you keep pushing it eventually you're going to pay the price and then some.
Anyway I don't know if what Simon did was 10 x worse but I can tell you 6 games feels right to me. Far too many people cry out for harsher suspensions but iIf they suspend any more frequently and any more harshly there wont be anyone left to play in the NHL. hey maybe we'd all get a shot in the bigs! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2008 : 13:31:58
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Just to close off one of these arguement, I agree that NHL players should carry themselves at a higher standard because of the spotlight they are under. I agree that under age drinking, drinking and driving etc are all things that should be dealt with. My point is that it's not the NHL's issue to deal with. To me, it is up to the specific team and/or the NHLPA to manage these kinds of player issues. Also, it's the responsibility of the players to conduct themselves to a higher standard.
Now, onto other discipline. My issue has been (and I have public stated before) that the NHL discipline has been flawed for ever. The point of the discipline is to change behavior and to remove unwanted activities from the game. However, the discipline has been ineffective for the most part. Reason being is that the disciple has been based on who the player is and what the outcome is. All that is saying is that if you are a superstar, you will not get the same treatment as a non-superstar. Also, if the other player does not get hurt, the suspension will not be as harsh. For the NHL to actually get thigs right, it is the action that needs to be punished, not the outcome and the player involved.
Using the example of the the Simon skate stomping incident. As soon as that happened, the NHL releases a memo to the entire league stating that if a player is deems as using the skate in an attempt to inflict harm on another player, it will be a minimum 30 game suspension and could result in a permenant ban for NHL hockey. Done. Now all the players clearly understand the consequence and weather it's Jeff Woywitka or Sidney Crosby, all players will be punished the same. |
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I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie
Sweden
217 Posts |
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Reeder17
Rookie
Canada
112 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 08:32:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest6732
pretty sure every coach in the nhl would love to have a player like sean in there line up unless there stuck up
Yeah that's why Dallas is already weighing options to put him on waivers and get rid of him. And thats why they havn't received a single offer.
Crosby is not the Jesus Lord & Savior of the NHL, get over yourself McGuire. |
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JERJ2008
Top Prospect
Canada
25 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 17:08:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Leafsfan_94
i dont know, i kinda like avery. i mean, i hate him for what he said to blake, about his cancer. but out of all the goons in the NHL, hes the best one. he can score goals, and i love how he gets under players skin
Leafsfan_94
Do you really think Avery is a goon? Or is he just a kid who wasn't hugged enough? |
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Avalanche_17
Top Prospect
Canada
27 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2009 : 12:48:36
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| hahaha, he is definitely a goon. I don't know if he is one because he wants attention or what all I know is it is just getting annoying. I don't even now if he belongs in the league. By the looks of it its not looking like anyone will take him. It is just there is a line between making the game more interesting to watch and just screwing around and saying stupid stuff just to get a reaction. And also, what I find surprising, which I might be wrong about, but Avery is always at the front when it comes to starting stuff with words but I rarely see him actually follow through with what he says with action..... |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 13:01:48
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Just when you thought this topic could fade away and those, myself included, thought that there is hope for reform for people, Avery once again thrusts himself back into the forefront of hockey news...
I'm not even sure what to say at this point, at least it wasn't him trying to get another sound byte, but come on, really?
If you didn't see it, Avery, after a stoppage in play(may have been end of a period, not sure as Thomas was way out of the net), skates up behind Tim Thomas, who is stretching I think, and with perhaps the worst 'who me?' bit of acting, proceeds to whack Thomas on the back of the head with his stick.....ugh!!
I don't get it, is he really worth it?
Earlier in the week, he spends the game doing his usual pestering in front of Brodeur, fair enough, that's what he does, and attracts what would normally happen to anyone else, an opponent, Clarkson, who takes exception to what he's doing. Avery, being the brave little Gimli that he is, does what you would expect any hard-nosed forward to do. Locks up, drops his glove(shakes it off, watch the replay), and then acts like he wants nothing to do with the altercation.
Again, I don't get it....someone, please explain how he is a benefit to the sport in any way, any way at all.
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 05:50:10
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| I'd have a tough time calling what he did a "whack" a tap perhaps. I encourage you to sit down and watch a game, not nessecarily just the play but pay attention to whats going on between the players behind the play and away from the puck. Stuff like this is extremely common at all levels of hockey. Avery does it and apparantly it's news, Brodeur hacks the back of someones unprotected calf and that's just him being a competitor. The Avery issue was dead, it's been brought back by the media and people who just can't let it go. |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 10:05:34
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Ohhh....okay....I'll assume you meant that constructively, since, if your profile is correct, I was watching hockey and playing at elite levels before you were born. , pretty sure I have an idea of 'what goes on behind the play'.
Agitating during the play, yes, common, and valuable if done correctly. Esa Tikanen almost drove Lemieux to drink, but he did it during the game, not this cheap b.s that Avery does. Had he given Thomas a stick during the play, I could understand that,and call it being competitive as well, but with him, it's the cheap theatrics that tarnish it. That's the anomaly of Avery, when he does this stuff during the play, it's effective as hell. It's the fact that he seems to have trouble controlling it, and always steps over that line between competitiveness and ridiculousness.
Enough said...I'd hate to be someone who, when thinking Avery, can't let it go..
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 15:17:59
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I don't agree with Avery's actions all of the time, but in this case, I think the media is making a mountain out of a mole hill. If it was any other player, it would not have been news worth. But it's Avery, so all of a sudden is tragic.
As I said, I don't agree with it, but there are other things that happen in a game that are as bad or worse that are never discussed. Similar to MSC's example, at last weeks Oilers/Sharks game, Roenick received a penalty for goaltender interference. During the play, Roloson hacked at Roenick. This is as bad if not worse and no one said work one about it.
Finally, I personally get excited watching a game where Avery is involved. You might not like it, but there is a certain "What is he going to do next" factor. And this latest one with Thomas, it made me laugh. Not the action, but the "What did I do wrong?" look that Avery had on the bench.
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 18:51:07
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I had to pick other.
I believe that some antics in the NHL are tolerable. But everything reaches a limit at some point. I believe Avery tends to take things too far, too often.
If he did these silly things once in a blue moon, perhaps it would be more tolerable. But this guy does so many remedial things, day in - day out.
I don't believe the NHL has room for Sean Avery any more. I'd even prefer Jarkko Ruutu over Avery. Ruutu, like Avery, does a lot of silly things. But he doesn't seem to do as many, as often.
That's all for now. :p
Irvine |
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Guest8116
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Posted - 04/07/2009 : 12:45:01
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| Well i havn't seen Torterella (sp?) complaining or even stating his displeasure with the thomas incident, therefore i would have to guess that he actually condons or even told avery to go out and do this, because we all know from past experiences that torterella is not one to bite his tongue |
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Sean Avery Antics 
