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Larrydavid
Top Prospect
Canada
37 Posts |
 Posted - 04/28/2009 : 11:30:37
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With all the centers and offense available for 2010 Olympics has Joe Thorton played his way off the team?
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Larrydavid
Top Prospect
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 11:35:50
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There is no doubt that Joe is a great player, but has never come through when needed. I don't blame the sharks loss on him alone though. With Croby, Getzlaf, M Richards, and Lecavalier ahead of him I wouldn't take him over any of these guys. I feel they can find someone better suited for a 3rd or 4th line duty. Unless Joe can play the wing, not sure if ever has.
I say no to Joe.
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Guest9844
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Posted - 04/28/2009 : 11:57:11
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| He doesn't deserve it. I have no respect for a leader who doesn't bring it come playoff time. |
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Guest9838
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Posted - 04/28/2009 : 12:43:45
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| It's so crazy but in the 3 and a half years since the last olympics I would never ever have said that Joe wouldn't be on the team. In my mind he was always a lock. But he's failed to perform in the clutch one too many times.... I think it will be a tough decision for Stevie Y come dec next year when Joe once again is top 5 in the league for assists, top 10 in pts. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 12:44:56
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Well, to be fair to Joe he does seem to bring it when he plays internationally. During the World Championships and the World Cup in '04 he was amazing. Althogh I would agree with you guys, I don't think Thornton or Marleau are on the team if it means no Getzlaf and Perry.
Nobody seems to be talking about Iginlas playoff no show. He had like, 1 good game.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 14:06:57
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Stevie Y has very good hockey sense and when all the players go to the camp held in Calgary this summer I'm sure he will make the right decision if Joe plays or not. The problem is there is so much talent to choose from Joe better be on his game.
"There are only two seasons. Hockey season and not hockey season." |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 14:35:16
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Holy Crap. Do we have a bunch of people on here that lost their pools because they banked on the Sharks and need a scape goat??? Thornton had 5 points in 6 games. He did his job. How about Clowe/Pavalski/Michalek who combined for 4 points over the 6 games?? How about Nabokov who did not have a great series?? What about any defenseman on the team?? I mean please. Did anyone look at the fact that San Jose outshot Anaheim by an average 12.5 shots/game??? (38.3 shots for vs 26 shots against). Jonas Hiller single handedly won the defensive battles between the teams. He was brilliant with a .957 save percentage, 2 shutouts, and he has faced 230 shots in 6 games!!
The better team did not win this series. The better team ran into an even better goalie and a team that was under-rated but still competative.
Seriously, Thorton is not playing as good as some players are in the playoffs, but he can not shoulder the blame for the lose and he definately will not be looked down upon because of this for the Olympic team.
Yzerman is not even close to stupid enough to leave not just the best Canadian, but arguable the best set up man in Hockey today.
Not a chance. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 14:39:22
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| Took the words out of my mouth. When you're talking elite players and leaders in the league you have to mention Joe. Other then the fact that he wears Lululemon underwear there isn't a knock against this guys game. |
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Sharksfan
Top Prospect
Canada
10 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 17:05:59
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| Truer words have never been spoken Beans. |
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Higgsy
Top Prospect
Canada
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 17:18:05
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Thornton can perform and will be on the team for sure!
Iginla has brought it in clutch times and i wouldnt be surprised if he is the captain.
He is clutch, the premier power forward, and has great leadership.
Thats Jarome for you.
Ex-NHL, AHL and, OHL player. Black Hawks Devils Red Wings. Tim Higgins (career 78-89) Scored 59 points in my best season, I think I know hockey. |
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Larrydavid
Top Prospect
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2009 : 05:39:18
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| I for one didn't have one Shark in my pool. I am sticking to a repeat of last year, Detroit over Pittsburgh. Joe has always put up numbers in the regular season. 1.01 ppg versus but only.69 ppg in the playoffs. In his 12 years in the playoffs he has taken his team past the 1st round a total of 4 times. I personally didn't get to see much of the series. I know the whole team has to take responsibility for the loss, and I agree they were up against a very underated team. (Any team with Pronger and Niedermayer is tough to play agaisnt) Watching the highlights Joe didn't battle on a consistent basis. Game 6 he showed more emotion, it would have been nice to see that in game 1 to see how his team responded. Assembeling a team like the olympic is not about picking the most offensive players, it is about a balanced team that can provide offense, defense, and battle in a sudden death game. I think he will be on the team, Stevie Y was left off some international teams early in his career and turned into one of the best leaders and most complete players in the game. I don't think he is a lock and wouldn't be totally surprised to not see him on the team. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2009 : 05:03:41
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I have to disagree, Beans.
Thornton had 5 points in 6 games, but he was literally unnoticeable most of the time. His physical presence was non-existent, and he didn't get or set up the amount of high quality chances one might expect him to, even considering that it's the playoffs.
I'll give you an example of "effort" versus putting up the points. Ovechkin, as most people saw last round, was not his usual self. Too many low quality shots from far out, and one-man rushes. BUT, he still had 3 goals and 7 points in 7 games. Was he the big factor in the Caps coming back? Not really, we expect more in terms of game impact from this superstar. But what did Ovechkin start doing to bring it? He started hitting people left right and center.
Thornton may have been in on a good number of goals in a losing cause, but that doesn't mean he "brought it". He showed up, went through the motions . . . but even in a losing cause, when they were having trouble with the Ducks forecheck - did he step up his physical play? No. And isn't that what we expect Thornton to also bring to the table? Yes.
If you watched the games, you should have seen that Thornton just didn't have the effort level you would expect. Not quite there. I watched Ovechkin and thought his play was off, and NY played him well - but the effort was certainly there. Diving for pucks, big hits in the defensive zone, hard skating.
Thornton didn't bring it, and I don't know if he ever has.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
Edited by - n/a on 05/01/2009 05:09:20 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2009 : 08:29:47
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Slozo, just a quick couple of questions:
I don't disagree that Thronton was not a physical presence, but he's expected to produce a PPG, and that is what he did. None the less, you are right, he could have done more. I must ask, is Thorton the reason that the Sharks lost to Anaheim??? My answer is no, not the only one anyway. There were at least a dozen other Sharks who were invisable as well (including all of their defensemen and their goalie).
Secondly, does this mean you do not have him on Team Canada??? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2009 : 14:34:45
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Answers:
Well, Thornton is an above a PPG player - he is in the elite superstar range. And no, I wouldn't say he is the sole reason the Sharks lost . . . he is one of the many reasons. As leader of the team though, he is a big part of inspiring others to make greater efforts, much like an Ovechkin can be for Washington even when he's not lighting up the lamp.
On team Canada . . . is a tough question. I did have him on earlier, but he is slipping in my mind . . . let me see, what centers do we already have in contention for team Canada, and how many do we need? Well, Yzerman has said he might switch some to wing (I'm thinking Carter and Richards) but that still leaves Crosby, Lecavalier, Getzlaf, Savard. Crosby and Lecavalier HAVE to be on the team, and with the way they are playing now, both Getzlaf and Savard have to be on there as well.
Thornton is off, yeah - but he's on the cusp for me.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2009 : 06:00:26
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Though I'm not taking one side or the other just yet, there are few reasons not to include Thornton.
1) Crosby, Lecavalier, Richards, Getzlaf, Ribeiro, Staal, Carter, Toews, Spezza and Savard are all guys that I'm sure Yzerman is looking at to play center as well.
2) Crosby, Savard and Spezza are all set-up men too. Spezza is probably too soft to be considered, but Crosby and Savard have arguably the best vision in the game today. Not to mention Crosby's incredible speed. Both these guys could come in over Thornton.
3)Getzlaf, with 66 assists on the year, can make a play, and also has that physical edge. If they reunite him with Heatley and Nash, who were explosive in the past, that's a great line for them.
4) I just can't see them leaving off Mike Richards. He is so great defensively, on the penalty-kill, etc.
It would seem to me that Crosby is a lock, with Richards and Getzlaf really solid candidates, and the fourth is up for grabs. All those guys are young, though, so they may look to add a veteran presence.
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Edited by - Alex on 05/03/2009 06:00:51 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2009 : 06:38:27
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To Alex's points:
1) I agree - and frankly, I totally forgot about Ribeiro. He is right there as well.
2) I agree that Crosby and Savard are pretty automatic - but I would include Lecavalier as well. I think he is like Iginla for team Canada right now, with all the experience and skill they bring, no matter what kind of an off year they had, they are on.
3) Getzlaf is also on there for sure. How much more definitive an answer do you need than Getzlaf defeating Thornton head-to-head? And Getzlaf is playing at an MVP level in the playoffs so far, he has to be on there.
4) I probably agree . . . but like I said, I think they might move him to wing to fit on the team.
I really think Crosby, Savard, Getzlaf and Lecavalier are locks. Richards and Carter may be asked to move to wing.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2009 : 11:19:22
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I personally take Thornton over Savard. Bigger, stronger, can play different styles. Savard seems one dimensional to me. Al beit, I have watched more Thornton that Savard, but I have not been impressed with what I have watched of Savard.
I think that Thornton is better at the things Savard is good at and brings more size, strength, and grit to the table. I like 6'4"-235lbs who can set up with the best of them compared to 5'10", 195 lbs.
And Crosby and Savard are better set up guys that Thornton??? I disagree. I don't have time now to dig up the numbers, but I am all but certain that there is not player in the NHL today that has had more assists than Thornton is the past 5 years. Both total and average per game or per season.
I agree that Yzerman is going to have his hardest decision at the centre position, but I also think that there are a few of the guys who normally play centre who would be very effective on the wing.
Thornton is on the team, there is no doubt in my mind. |
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Guest3385
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Posted - 05/04/2009 : 15:11:41
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| But he doesn't deserve it. No heart. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2009 : 17:47:06
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I guess if it goes down to Savard vs. Thornton, you could make a case. Thornton has been decent on the world stage (though I'm basing that completely on 2002 - didn't really watch the games in 2006), while Savard, so far, has been big in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
When it comes down to it, the big knock on Thornton is that he doesn't bring his A-game to the playoffs. Why aren't we saying that about, I don't know, Torrey Mitchell? Because he is not expected to carry the team. I guess when you think about it, the dynamic is quite different in Vancouver. No one will expect Thornton to lift the team to greatness the way they do in San Jose. Maybe with a team of guys who can play under pressure, who can lead the team, who can wear their hearts on their sleeves, Thornton can be added for his talent alone. You don't need 20 leaders, after all.
So on that basis, you could make the argument that Thorton's flaws really don't matter for the stage we're talking about. We'll see what Stevie Yzerman thinks about that statement. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 04:33:27
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You'd take Savard out, eh? It just goes to show you how deep and even a lot of these players are . . . I figured you might take out Lecavalier, after his 'so-so' year.
Looking over the figures for assists, points . . . yeah, Thornton is better than Savard. The 92 assists a couple of years ago makes it nearly impossible to compete, and yes, Thornton is a bigger, more physical guy - in the regular season (I've seen Savard be more physical in the playoffs, btw, and that's not really a part of his game).
But looking over what is needed for an Olympic team, toughness and size isn't really high on my list. First, because we already have that in spades; and secondly, because of the bigger ice surface, I'd be looking more for speed. That's why if I were Yzerman, I'd opt for those speedy Philly players Carter and Richards, and why I might choose a more mobile Savard over a Thornton (it's not a huge difference, but I have to be picky here).
Either way, like everyone can see - it's a very tough choice. I can see why people would automatically include Thornton on the team, and can totally understand the reasoning behind it . . . but I just think that with all the snubs Savard has gotten in the past, and with his elevated performance when it matters, that he should get a crack at it.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 09:23:10
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
You'd take Savard out, eh? It just goes to show you how deep and even a lot of these players are . . . I figured you might take out Lecavalier, after his 'so-so' year.
Looking over the figures for assists, points . . . yeah, Thornton is better than Savard. The 92 assists a couple of years ago makes it nearly impossible to compete, and yes, Thornton is a bigger, more physical guy - in the regular season (I've seen Savard be more physical in the playoffs, btw, and that's not really a part of his game).
But looking over what is needed for an Olympic team, toughness and size isn't really high on my list. First, because we already have that in spades; and secondly, because of the bigger ice surface, I'd be looking more for speed. That's why if I were Yzerman, I'd opt for those speedy Philly players Carter and Richards, and why I might choose a more mobile Savard over a Thornton (it's not a huge difference, but I have to be picky here).
Either way, like everyone can see - it's a very tough choice. I can see why people would automatically include Thornton on the team, and can totally understand the reasoning behind it . . . but I just think that with all the snubs Savard has gotten in the past, and with his elevated performance when it matters, that he should get a crack at it.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Except for the fact that they are NOT using the larger rink. They are using the NHL size rink
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 09:58:11
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Ah yes, forgot about them using NHL sized rinks . . . hmm, that will make a difference.
I still say Yzerman should go with youth and speed to match the other big skilled forwards, but that being said, Thornton probably makes it anyways. He could be on the bubble come beginning of next season . . . when do they have to make the final choice by?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest5382
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Posted - 05/05/2009 : 12:50:49
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Ah yes, forgot about them using NHL sized rinks . . . hmm, that will make a difference.
I still say Yzerman should go with youth and speed to match the other big skilled forwards, but that being said, Thornton probably makes it anyways. He could be on the bubble come beginning of next season . . . when do they have to make the final choice by?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
I guess the question is who are they building the team against. Personally I think the Russians and considering the size of that team I'd go with Thornton.
Savard is much more defensively responsible under Julien.
How about both? Thornton converted to a winger. Canada has a lot of centres but little quality wingers. Heatley, Doan, Morrow and Iginla as natural wingers that are pretty much a lock. |
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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 12:51:26
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I know the orientation camp is going to be this summer in Calgary on August 24th to the 28th but I'm not too sure when the actual selection is going to be made. Does anyone know?
"There are only two seasons. Hockey season and not hockey season." |
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Guest4652
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Posted - 05/08/2009 : 04:21:33
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| The only way Thorton makes it after his latest disappearing act is if there is a collision of the Team Canada charter and the Rocky Mountains and the same happens to Team Canada's "B" team. Even then, you can't count on him. Do you REALLY want this guy when the chips are down in must win games? Not game #14 through #70 when he shows up. The guy has earned his reputation as a tank job. Perhaps the Bruins were shrewd to off him. The only way I want him even around Team Canada is if he is filling water bottles. I don't have the most confidence that he can even have the bottles filled as the pressure surely gets to this guy. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 05:57:59
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I love how we're all ripping Thornton...and at the end of it all, he'll still be on the team...LOL
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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Joe Thorton Team Canada 
