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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
 Posted - 05/26/2009 : 10:42:49
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The news conference is in about half an hour but it has been leaked that the Oil picked up Pat Quinn (head coach) and Tom Renney (associate coach) for their coaching staff. Wow, how much money did the Oilers pay to get both of these guys? This is going to be great for the Oilers, what do you think?
"There are only two seasons in Canada...hockey season and not hockey season."
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Edited by - Gusteroni on 05/26/2009 11:09:46
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 10:44:56
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wow, its great to hear Quinn is getting another shot at coaching. I hope he does well with that Oilers squad.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 11:06:41
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The press conference is right now. I am listening to it as we speak. It sounds like this is accurate. Quinn and (Associate Coach) Renney with Buchburger as the other assistant. That means Billy Moores and Charlie Huddy are out.
I really am not sure about this. Honestly, I think this is a little like putting lipstick on a pig. Not sure if this is the answer. I still think that without at least 1 top 6 forward and shoring up the goaltending, the Oilers will be a 7th to 9th place team again.
On the flip side, this is a pretty impressive chess move in the Northwest. With the Oilers taking 2 of, if not the 2 top guys off the head coaching list, it will be interesting what Calgary, Colorado, and specifically Minnesota will do behind their bench.
Wait and see. I am not happy or unhappy about this as an Oilers fan. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 11:10:56
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One more quick point.
Doesn't matter how much money the Oilers pay. The coaching doesn't count against the Cap and that's a nice thing about having a billionarrie as an owner. Big Bad Daryl Katz has the cash to throw two head coaches behind the bench.
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Guest6196
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Posted - 05/26/2009 : 11:13:59
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| Great News. Lets hope the team can now play consistent every night. That is something Mac T never could accomplish |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 11:21:37
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This is huge! Not saying to plan the parade in Oil Country, but still! Thats 2 canidates off the Flames list, and like Beans said, once the Oil sure up their goalie issue and get a big time player, they'll be good to go!
Still wondering why it took this long for Quinn to find another job though :S
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 11:24:45
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Hey Beans...I'm listening to the press conference from Red Deer. Well I know it is going to be said at some point that this now the Canucks old boys club only within the Oilers organization. It is too bad that Moores and Huddy are out but do you think they will still be part of the organization? I am a huge Quinn fan but I think you are right they do need to pick up a top 6 forward and do something with their goaltending (Rollie is a free agent?). I think this might just be the tip of the iceberg cause it seems to be a huge statement to the rest of the league that the Oilers are going to be better next year...way better! I'm happy I don't need to watch Quinn behind the Flames bench...blah!
"There are only two seasons in Canada...hockey season and not hockey season." |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 13:28:41
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Quinn turned down a job offer in Boston a couple years back and said he regretted it...
At first glance, I agree with Beans' "lipstick on a pig" remark.
There have been alot of big name hires over the past year, not to mention the current Avs/Roy connection, and they haven't worked out as well as quieter moves like Clouston or Byslma being hired, but Renney is very solid with "x" and "o" type stuff, and Quinn should have the respect of the players right from the get-go.
Quinn likes to coach an up-tempo style, and with the core of young players there, they could turn out to be one of the most dynamic teams in the west.
It'll be exciting to see who the Oilers can acquire this off-season to augment the roster.
I hope the Oil can overtake the Flames in the battle of Alberta. (i'll take any team in blue over one in red any day ^_^ )
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest6729
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Posted - 05/26/2009 : 13:30:52
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| aww tom renney honestly |
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Guest5382
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Posted - 05/26/2009 : 13:49:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Quinn likes to coach an up-tempo style, and with the core of young players there, they could turn out to be one of the most dynamic teams in the west.
With Quinn as head coach the kids will see alot of pine. That's his motus operandi. The oils will be looking much older next year. Robbie Schremp, good luck seeing the NHL as an Oiler. Five words for all those young guns on the oils, buh-bye to ice time. |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 05/26/2009 : 17:36:24
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| Renney = Jagr ? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 19:16:12
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I don't think it's lipstick on a pig (love that line, btw), but . . . well, I know Quinn well from his Toronto days, and I am not sure if he is the right fit for this young Oilers team. He won't arbitrarily sit youngsters for no good reason, but . . . his modus operandi is to fill roles with experienced, proven guys - not necessarily veterans, but at the very least not a lot of green boys out there.
Sort of like another old Leafs coach, Burns, I think Quinn is an awesome coach for the right team - but it has to be his kind of mix, and I just don't see that here. No matter what, it's a step up; but for Quinn to get the kind of grit and size he prefers to coach, there will have to be some player movement . . .
. . . on the other hand, Calgary now can't get Quinn - who would have had (in my mind) the perfect team for a guy like him to coach! Interesting stuff indeed.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2009 : 19:26:30
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From watching all the local Edmonton reporting, it almost seems like an experiment. Both got 3 year deals. It was somewhat eluded to Quinn being the man for the 3 year but almost bringing Renney along to take over on his own at that point. Perhaps the Oil Brass like Quinn's up-tempo and Renney's defense with Quinn being the primary motivator and decision maker. Quinn's also climbing on the higher side of 60? Maybe Renney is just back-up??
The thing I do respect about Quinn that MacT didn't have is he is an equal opportunity offender. Meaning it doesn't matter who you are, produce or sit. Much like Keenan but far more reasonable. MacT always sat the same guys and always played the same guys regardless of production. At the very least, this coaching duo brings accountability to a team that sorely needs it and a little hardwork and sandpaper sprinkled in with Buchy.
At the same time, I stand by my opinion that without a bonified player with Hemsky and a stable Goalie, the Oil either miss the playoffs or barely make it and are out the first round. I don't care if Scottie Bowman or Al Arbour are behind that bench. But, I also think that's why the Oil did this before the draft. Gives Quinn and Renney a little time to review some tape and tell the GM who they want/need.
Ultimately, this whole coaching thing kinda seems like carrying two drivers in your golf bag. Doesn't really make sense and kind of a waste of a club. But wait, didn't that one guy win the Master's carrying 2 drivers???
Tambollini will either look like a Hero or a Goat, much like that other fella who called the stick measurement in the final minutes of a season deciding game. Only time will tell. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 04:18:04
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Well, the more I think about it . . . the more it looks like Quinn's swansong as he is getting on in years, and then Renney will take over (if it is all working out at the time).
So I agree with you there Beans, but on the other point, I will say this for their depth, knowing that Renney could easily be a head coach himself: they look very, very smart, seem quite complimentary in terms of style, and that's two good coaches that won't be in Calgary.
Now they have to make some changes in the line-up, because I agree - they are going nowhere fast without some additions.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 06:21:33
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In defence of Quinn when it comes to playing veterans over young players. I beleive he said once, something along the lines of
"If you want me to play the young guys, get rid of the veterans"
Edmontons core is pretty young, and they don't have many grizzled veterans taking up spots in the top 8. I don't think it will be an issue. Im sure part of his job there is to make sure that the kids develop and turn into cornerstones for the franchise.
Quinn has won gold at the U-18 and the WJC in the past year, so dealing with kids actually seems like a strength of his now, not a weakness.
Quinn was on OTR last night and said it always bugs him when people say he doesnt play kids, or cant coach the kids. Because it simply isnt true. The Leafs were almost %100 a veteran team and he wasnt going to give someone like Stajan or Carlo more ice time than the high priced vets... its a totally different situation in Edmonton.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 10:32:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803
Renney = Jagr ?
Quinn = Sundin...just kidding. Perhaps the talks and speculation about Jagr could start up again though. Did Renney and Jagr have a good relationship? They were talking yesterday that it would not be impossible for Jagr to get out of his current contract...who knows what's next.
"There are only two seasons in Canada...hockey season and not hockey season." |
Edited by - Gusteroni on 05/27/2009 10:32:29 |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 11:20:14
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| Remember I am not a Oiler, Jagr or Sundin fan here, but with the cap room they have and the solid group of prospects, either of those 2 players would fit in well with this group of players. They could mentor this young group like Federov has to Semin, Backstrom and Ovie. All they would need is a solid goalie like a Fernandez to play with Rolli |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 15:15:24
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Ok, just a couple of things.
Firstly, Fernadez is a step backward on Roloson. 2ndly. both are UFA's. Thirdly, the Oilers will sign a vet goalie to a 1 or 2 year contract to bring Delaurier along.
And, neither Jagr or Sundin will be coming to Edmonton this season. It will not be a UFA.
Mark my words, there will be a deal, and a bigger deal than we have seen in a few years, which will land a star forward in Edmonton. 60 Days Max. You seen it here first. |
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Guest8571
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Posted - 05/27/2009 : 15:26:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
The press conference is right now. I am listening to it as we speak. It sounds like this is accurate. Quinn and (Associate Coach) Renney with Buchburger as the other assistant. That means Billy Moores and Charlie Huddy are out.
I really am not sure about this. Honestly, I think this is a little like putting lipstick on a pig. Not sure if this is the answer. I still think that without at least 1 top 6 forward and shoring up the goaltending, the Oilers will be a 7th to 9th place team again.
On the flip side, this is a pretty impressive chess move in the Northwest. With the Oilers taking 2 of, if not the 2 top guys off the head coaching list, it will be interesting what Calgary, Colorado, and specifically Minnesota will do behind their bench.
Wait and see. I am not happy or unhappy about this as an Oilers fan.
hmmm... no surprise Beansy is obviously not working therefore he has no job.... i see a 35 year old [ moderator edit ] living with his parents...... jk
this guy could be a gm in the nhl no joke
lots of hockey knowledge
but with your point...i agree |
Edited by - n/a on 05/28/2009 04:25:52 |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 15:40:06
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Athough I usually agree with what you say and would refer to you for an answer with regards to the Edmonton Oilers, I repectfully disagree with you assessment of Roli VS. Fernandes.
Roli born 1969
Career games played 462 wins 167 SV% .910 GA 2.62
Playoff's games 33 wins 18 SV% .915 GA 2.56
Fernandez born 1974
Career games played 325 wins 143 SV% .912 GA 2.50
Playoff games 11 wins 3 SV% .927 Ga 2.00
Based on those numbers the only edge would go to Roli for games played regular and post season and post season wins. Based on Roli being 5 years his senior I would hope he would have the edge here. Remember when the Oilers got Roli they both played in Minnesota and Manni outplayed him there.
Also I would have to disagree with Sundin/Jagr potentially coming to Edmonton. I believe Jagr has shown the interest as well as the team showing interest in him. He would be a good fit for the young European players that edmonton hasn't been able to squeek the best out of yet.
The only long shot would be for Sundin to sign in Edmonton. He wants to play for a winner. But, with Quinn being brought in, the connection is there even in the slightest degree. Same potential to groom the up and coming young star's. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 21:06:30
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Here is the difference between Roloson and Fernandez.
Roloson accomplished those stats in front of a inferiour defensive team in Edmonton compared to the teams Fernandez played for in Minny and Boston.
Also, when they were both in Minny, they split the time. Actually, in each season until Roloson left where both goalies were in Minny, Roli played in more games.
And frankly, having watche Roloson play this past season, he was nothing short of brilliant, by far the best Oiler on the ice most every night, and basically the only reason the Oilers could even smell the playoffs. The only way Roloson is not back in net for the Oilers next year is if he is unreasonable with his contract. I would be heavily disappointed and have serious questions about Tambollini's abilities if he took Fernandez over Roloson. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2009 : 23:48:13
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| Ummm defensive minded teams affect shots on goal reduce goals against average. The guy is still 5 years younger signed for less last time and would clearly sign for less now with a better winning percentage and save percentage. Look it up for yourself Roli was peddled because he wanted more for the same production and fernandez at the time was the future. If it weren't for a Tremendously solid Backstrom he would still be holding down the #1 in Minni. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 00:03:53
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| My opinion of Roli is somewhat diminished due to the fact they couldn't peddle his overpaid contract and he lost his starter job to Garon who was dealt because they couldn't keep both, and Garon is worth more come negotiation time. Roli only played as well as he did in his last season (New contract time)and prior to his, too long and tremendously overpaid contract year. Lets just agree to disagree on ths point and get back to Renney and Quinn which is a stroke of genius In my opinion. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 07:28:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Here is the difference between Roloson and Fernandez.
Roloson accomplished those stats in front of a inferiour defensive team in Edmonton compared to the teams Fernandez played for in Minny and Boston.
Also, when they were both in Minny, they split the time. Actually, in each season until Roloson left where both goalies were in Minny, Roli played in more games.
And frankly, having watche Roloson play this past season, he was nothing short of brilliant, by far the best Oiler on the ice most every night, and basically the only reason the Oilers could even smell the playoffs. The only way Roloson is not back in net for the Oilers next year is if he is unreasonable with his contract. I would be heavily disappointed and have serious questions about Tambollini's abilities if he took Fernandez over Roloson.
Like most players, Roloson had a good year because it's a contract year. Fernandez is by far a better goalie then Roloson, plus you have to look at the age (Roloson is 39, Fernandez is 34). Roloson has 1 or 2 decent years left, if he's lucky. Fernandez has always been a strong net minder (08/09 - 27 Starts, 16-8-3, 2.59 GAA, .910 S%). He also combined with Thomas for the William Jennings award. Long-term, look for EDM to go after Manny. If they go after Dwayne, it'll be a 1 year contract, and we'll be in the same situation next year...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 09:10:00
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| If you dont like my suggestions about Fernandez, Jagr, Sundin or Alfredson. What are your suggestions. Quinn and Renney arent the type of coaches to sit on their laurels here. They do have some cap space and some good young trade bait here. I dont believe Horcoff is at all attractive for another team with that salary, but Moreau, Shremp and Hemsky very tradeable. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 09:52:49
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There is a lot the Oilers can do, or very little. If I was GM for a day, this is what I do.
1) Resign Kotalik - That shores up the 2nd line with Gagner, O'Sullivan, and Kotalik. (Unless I deal Horcoff and I move Gagner up to the 1st line, then Cogliano goes to the 2nd line). Also resign Grebeshkov and Strudwick.
2) Throw names all around the NHL for deals. There are some very tradeable assests and others to just get off the books. I would see if I could move Pisani and Penner for a bag of pucks. Honestly, there will be no takers because of their contracts being too high.
3) Go hard core after Boumeester in the offseason. Even if I go above the cap for the summer, I don't care. I get him, I have even more assests. Also, get Peca back as a UFA for reasonably cheap. Faceoff specialist and PK.
4) Once I get Bouwmeester, I set up a packing including Visnovsky, Horcoff, Shremp, and draft picks to get a bonified 1st line player like Kovalchuk, Heatley, Havlat, etc.
5) I offer Roloson a 1 year, $3 million contract. He gets maybe 50 games and I work Deslauriers as my #1 for next year. I still have a proven goalie in Roli when I make my playoff run.
That's it. A few pieces to the puzzle. If this happens, here is my line up.
Kovalchuk - Gagner(Can also use O'Sullivan as a centre) - Hemsky
O'Sullivan - Cogliano - Kotalik
Moreau - Peca - Pisani
Penner - Brodziak - Pouliot
Souray - Bouwmeester (one of, if not the sicked d-pairing in the NHL)
Gilbert - Grebeshkov
Smid - Strudwick
Roloson
Deslauriers
I give that line up to Quinn and compete nicely in the NW and the Western Conference.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 11:59:04
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Me thinks there is some wholes in your proposal. Horcoff is untradeable this year period! Unless, you send a high draft pick and a signed propect, you will get a bag of chips (not pucks) in return.
1. Horcoff signed for $7 million next year 26 over 4 years. Penner and Hemsky much more attractive as trade bait. Penner closer in value than Horcoff is and Hemsky would attract better trade offers, as he is signed right and is the most offensive player for Edmonton.
2. Visnovsky signed for $7 million next year $21 over next 4. Visnovsky may be tradeable with the right package. D is week behind top 2. Still a tremendously overpaid player this year though.
3. Shremp unsigned restricted free agent probably will want 1.5 to 2 million. Shremp is only trade bait if he sign's or commits to signing at the right $'s. If not Edmonton loses for a return on this guy and should resign him.
4. Penner, a power forward, playing as a forth liner at $4.25 million. Ok I know the media and Brian Burke have given this guy and his outrageous contract a bad time, but replace him or put him on the market and see what happens. He is closer to his $4.25 contract value than Horcoff or Visnovsky are.
If the stars shine just right and your scenerio happened, it would be a great day for Oilers fans indeed. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 13:05:24
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Wow, I wonder if what I write actually gets read sometimes.
Visnovsky overpaid?? Have you watched the guy play?? Ever?? He is a top 1 - 2 defenseman on any team in the NHL. Not overpaid for a second. And his cap hit is $5.6 million, which is more than reasonable. I guess 310 points in 549 games and +17 playing as the #1 or #2 defensemen with the Kings (weak team) and the Oilers (Weak) team is just a pile of garbage??
The defense is weak behind the first two?? Might want to take a better look at that. Gilbert was top 20 in scoring for defensemen with 45 points and Grebeshkov wasn't far behind with 39. Both are young, strong, and very mobile. Strudwick, Smid, and Staios are all responsible stay at home defensemen. Seriously, do the homework and you will see that the Oilers top 6 d-men are as good any most out there. Definately in the top 10 groups in the NHL.
Secondly, we are talking about the same Rob Schremp right?? The same 1st round draft in 2004 who has a total of 7 NHL games under his belt? That same potential "superstar" who is barely average in the AHL?? If he's getting $2 million this season I am climbing into bed with a supermodel. Simply put, not happening.
Penner is closer to his $4.25 million contract than Visnovsky and Horcoff?? Wow. I won't comment on Visnovsky (see above) but Horcoff. I agree the $7 million next year is high, but the guy has 6 straight 40+ point seasons, 4 straight 50+ seasons, and a 73 point season in there as well. He was on pace for over 80 last season when he got injured. All of this while being one of the best PK forwards around and logging a ton of minutes. While Penner, in the past two years has a grand total of 40 goals and 87 points while collecting $8.5 million. Not bad if that was in one season, but c'mon. The guy is huge and plays as soft as butter. He's been a huge disappointment and not worth the $4+million he's getting.
With all due respect, I would have to question the amount of Oilers hockey you have seen in the past few seasons with your comments.
And to your very first comment, my deal was Visnovsky, Horcoff, Schremp, and a 1st round pick for Kovalchuk. That's a bonified #1/#2 defensemen, and #1 centre(or the best 2nd line centre in the NHL), a signed prospect, and a first round draft pick.
Fair deal, definately. Going to happen, not likely because of economics. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 13:30:57
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Might have been a little harse on the bottom 4 d-men there, they are not that bad. But 7 million for Visnovsky he is a 4.5 to 5.0 a year guy 22.5 - 25 million, which I guess is close to 28 million over 5 years . Still seems steep though.
I will not conceed my point on Horcoff though - 3 years at 154 points in 213 games is not worth 6.5 7 million. If Alfie, Spezza, or Heatly did that in Ottawa I would sign/pay for the hitman myself.
I dont care about the Penner topic myself, but I cant believe you'd side with Horcoff and douse Penner with Gasoline with 129 points in the same time not on the top unit. All this for just 2/3 the salary of Horcoff. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 05/28/2009 16:32:48 |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 15:31:43
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| Quinn will help the Oilers.. his first year as the Maple Leafs coach he took a team that is worse off then they are right now with guys like Derek King, Kris King, Igor Korolev, Mike Johnson, Garry Valk, Sylvain Cote, Alexander Karpovtsev, Alyn McCauley, Tie Domi, Todd Warriner, Danny Markov, Yannick Tremblay, Darby Hendrickson a team that normally wouldn't have even been thought to have a chance to make the playoffs and led them all the way to the Conference finals... 7 years as the Leafs coach 6 years making the playoffs. final year as Leafs coach 2005-06 Won 41 loss 33 and 8 overtime loss 90 Points but just didn't make the playoffs so they fired him and sign Paul Maurice, huge mistake they should have kept Pat Quinn... Pat Quinn is a winning coach 657 Wins, 481 losses, 154 Ties, and 26 overtime losses that is excellent coaching.. Best thing Edmonton could have done was sign Pat Quinn... Now watch them make the playoffs |
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Quinn and Renney are both Oilers coaches!! 
