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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
 Posted - 07/14/2009 : 07:29:22
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Rumours persist that Toronto and Chicago are talking trade . . . obviously we all know that Toronto needs some scoring and they have a surplus of defencemen now. And, we also know that Chicago has a ton of talented forwards, and that reportedly they are looking for a stay at home defenceman.
Articles and blogs have suggested Kaberle from the Leafs over and over again, but I really don't see that unless the heir apparent to Sundin is available. Exelby has been mentioned as the sort of player that Chicago would be looking for, but Burke won't deal him after he dealt so much (Kubina) to get him.
So, give me your potential trades here, and who would you like to get for either team?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 08:02:32
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My Trade:
To Toronto - Andrew Ladd, Troy Brouwer
To Chicago - (D)Mike Van Ryn, (D) Jonas Frogren, Ryan Hollweg
From a Toronto perspective, you get two young big guys that can score and potentially help fill in the top two lines, and for Chicago, you get one solid dependable defenceman and the young guy Frogren who also looks good, add some toughness with Hollweg, and you start to shed a bit of salary as well, I think.
Of Note:
Reports are just coming in that Dave Tallon, Chicago GM, has been fired, and that he will be replaced by Stan Bowman [Greg Wyshinski - Yahoo Sports]
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 08:34:13
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Three team deal...
To Toronto:
- F Phil Kessel
- Cash Considerations
To Chicago:
- F Ryan Hollweg
- D Andrew Ference
- D Jonas Frogren
- Boston 2010 1st Round Pick
To Boston:
- F Patrick Sharp
- D Brent Seabrook
- D Anton Stralman
- Toronto 2010 2nd Round Pick
- Chicago 2010 2nd Round Pick |
Edited by - Rambo2305 on 07/14/2009 08:49:33 |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 08:40:22
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Well, Im not sure that dealing Ladd and Brouwer and taking on Van Ryn and Stajan helps with chicagos cap problems. Hollweg is currently a free agent I beleive...
Ladd and Brouwer combined have a 2.55mil cap hit next season. Stajan and Van Ryn have a combined 4.65mil cap hit. Chicago is taking on even more salary with that deal.
It is very tough to make a trade for cap reasons as you are likley to get fleeced on the hockey side of things. If chicago is desperate for cap releif, not only will they have to give a GM (who wont be doing any favours for the blackhawks) 1 or 2 good players, but they cant take much back either. Maybe they ask for picks, which these days, are as valuable as they have ever been.
If I am Brian Burke, there are only a couple players I would be willing to take back from Chicago in a deal. The Leafs need scoring, so unless Chicago will part with one of their skill guys (Sharp, Versteeg, Kane, Towes) im not really that interested....unless you are putting together a package that would allow you to get ahold of Seabrook, Keith or Barker as well. How could chicago bring themselves to get rid of any of these guys?
Here is what my deal looks like:
Chicago sends:
Sharp (3.9mil cap hit over the next 3 years)
Ladd (1.55mil cap hit next year)
to Toronto for:
Stajan (1.75mil cap hit next year)
This gives Chicago almost 4 mil in saved cap space for the next 3 years, a decent young centre in Stajan and provides Toronto with top line scoring and a tough player for added depth. I know Toronto wins the deal if you consider how it plays out on the ice, but its going to cost chicago somethign if they want to free up cap space.
Dave Bolland is someone chicago obviously wants to keep, but Stajan could be the cheaper alternative if the hawks want to dump his 5 year 3.37mil cap hit contract....
No chance Burke takes on Huet or Campbell.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 08:49:15
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Three team deal...
To Toronto:
- F Phil Kessel
- Cash Considerations
To Chicago:
- F Ryan Hollweg
- D Andrew Ference
- D Jonas Frogren
- Boston 2010 1st Round Pick
To Boston:
- F Patrick Sharp
- D Brent Seabrook
- D Anton Stralman
- Toronto 2010 2nd Round Pick
- Chicago 2010 2nd Round Pick |
Edited by - Rambo2305 on 07/14/2009 08:53:07 |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 10:07:14
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you cant trade cash...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 11:27:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
you cant trade cash...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Not trade cash, but acquire cash. It's usually never more then 1 or 2 million. Average is around $500,000
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Guest5382
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Posted - 07/14/2009 : 12:13:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
Not trade cash, but acquire cash. It's usually never more then 1 or 2 million. Average is around $500,000
You can't have cash as part of the trade. You can only trade players, rights to players and picks. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 12:21:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest5382
quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
Not trade cash, but acquire cash. It's usually never more then 1 or 2 million. Average is around $500,000
You can't have cash as part of the trade. You can only trade players, rights to players and picks.
Cash can go to, as compensation or as a part of the deal. It's up to the GM, President and Owner. They can choose to take a Conditional Pick, Conditional Prospect, or Cash. Alot of times it's the cash, conditional picks and prospects rarely work out. Hell, rather then taking players, they take cash. You see it alot for teams that are struggling financially. Helps pay the bills.
That cash goes towards payroll, development fees, or whatever the holding party wants to do with it. As long as it goes towards the team. Every sport has it, MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL, MLS, European soccer leagues etc.
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 12:24:17
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Believe me, I've had the pleasure of discussing this with the late, great Steve Stavros. So if anyone knew, it was him...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 12:30:04
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you USED to be able to trade cash. Im pretty sure you CAN NOT trade cash at all anymore
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest5382
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Posted - 07/14/2009 : 13:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
Believe me, I've had the pleasure of discussing this with the late, great Steve Stavros. So if anyone knew, it was him...
Gee Rambo, you might want to talk your Steve Stavros (if you are going to drop a name might as well say someone completely irrelevant like Pele) about the NHL CBA. You know that new CBA that they went on strike for that includes something called salary cap and the new rules about how you can't trade cash anymore.
(with an Apu accent from the Simpsons) Thank you come again.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 13:32:56
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Ya, I think Matt Roberts is correct. I asked the same question surrounding Heatley to Edmonton and the issue of the $4 million bonus. NHL clubs can not longer deal in cash or cash considerations as part of trades. It has to do with the CBA and the Salary Cap. I will dig up the details a little later and post them.
And without looking into a ton of details, most of these trades are the typical team fan thinking they can give up nothing and get something back. Patrick Sharp is on the cusp of being and elite player in this league. You will not get him for Froglan, Hollweg, and draft picks. I mean, give your head a shake.
Rightly or wrongly, agree with keeping Kaberle or not, if there is a deal for a top 6 forward going to Toronto, Kaberle is sure bet as at least one of the players leaving. |
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Guest0459
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Posted - 07/14/2009 : 13:33:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest5382
quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
Believe me, I've had the pleasure of discussing this with the late, great Steve Stavros. So if anyone knew, it was him...
Gee Rambo, you might want to talk your Steve Stavros (if you are going to drop a name might as well say someone completely irrelevant like Pele) about the NHL CBA. You know that new CBA that they went on strike for that includes something called salary cap and the new rules about how you can't trade cash anymore.
(with an Apu accent from the Simpsons) Thank you come again.
woosh another leaf fan owned again! |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 14:18:31
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| I am having a tough time seeing Chicago making a trade for Kaberle. They already have a very stable core of dmen. If they are looking for a stay at home guy then Kaberle certainly isn't that guy. Perhaps if they were indeed looking to land a stay at home dman on the cheap they should have considered Hal Gill or someone from that mold. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 16:19:57
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Yeah, like I said before Beans, they really don't need or want Kaberle.
Ok, forget about Frogren . . . here goes:
To Toronto: Patrick Sharp and a prospect
To Chicago: Mike Van Ryn, Colin White
Both teams get what they want there, I think . . . Toronto will miss white, he would have been a solid third or fourth defenceman on a good team, but Sharp looks like he scores thirty goals a year for a while now . . . and who knows, with top line minutes, maybe he breaks out into a superstar. Chicago shores up the d big time into a very deep squad, lose a tiny bit of salary, and Toronto gets a top line forward . . . maybe not the centrepiece, but it's a start.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 16:47:04
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I don't see anything happening with Chicago. The firing of Tallon indicates something a miss in the Chicago management. Maybe some truth to the poor management during the resigning of contracts that got them into hot water with NHL. I thought as did others that Tallon had done a superb job in making the Hawks a contender again. I think that the move to having Stan Bowman run the team is step towards having his father Scott Bowman having more say.
If something does happen with Chicago and it is a top six forward coming back, well I agree with Beans, Kabby is part of that deal. I don't truly see a deal that works here for both teams. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 17:46:02
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Yeah, like I said before Beans, they really don't need or want Kaberle.
Ok, forget about Frogren . . . here goes:
To Toronto: Patrick Sharp and a prospect
To Chicago: Mike Van Ryn, Colin White
Both teams get what they want there, I think . . . Toronto will miss white, he would have been a solid third or fourth defenceman on a good team, but Sharp looks like he scores thirty goals a year for a while now . . . and who knows, with top line minutes, maybe he breaks out into a superstar. Chicago shores up the d big time into a very deep squad, lose a tiny bit of salary, and Toronto gets a top line forward . . . maybe not the centrepiece, but it's a start.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Ok, I think I was confusing Patrick Sharp and Patrick Kane. Kane is on the bubble of superstardom and worth more than a couple of marginal blueliners.
Sharp is still a decent hockey player and your deal does make sense on paper. I am still a little confused as to what the Hawks need at Defense. Did they lose anyone?? They still have Keith, Seabrook, Campbell, Barker, Hjalmarsson(nice name to spell!). That's 5 locked up. Plus, Sopel and Johnson. I don't see them needing anything else on the back end.
In fact, I can see Chicago looking to move Campbell this season, if anyone will take that contract. I think Burke will get a decent player to force some offense, but I don't think it's coming out of Chicago.
And it's really interesting to see this Tallon thing. This might have been in the works for the past year, who knows. Ultimately, I do know that Bowman Sr has had more than his say. He left Detroit to work with his boy, and obviously, the three of those guys have done a brilliant job with that team. Regardless of who holds what title, with those three behind the team and a very good coach, they have the front end of that team locked up real nice. We'll see if the money they spent will go along with them.
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Guest0980
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Posted - 07/14/2009 : 23:19:41
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| Maybe the leafs are looking at Versteeg, he is making 3.083/year for the next three years. |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 04:29:29
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I don't really know much about this rumor but only a little. I think Toronto will get Patrick Sharp and Chicago will get Garnet Exelby. I'm not sure but that would be my guess.
HABS RULE!!
brentrock2 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 04:41:43
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Yeah, I think of the available players that Chicago might be willing to part with, Sharp and Versteeg would be guys Toronto would definitely be interested in.
I don't see Kaberle being moved, and certainly Kane and Toews are untouchable.
Beans - I know what you are saying about Chicago's D, but reports out of Chicago say that they are looking for some tougher defensive defencemen . . . so I am not sure if Chicago is the right team for Toronto's surplus. I really don't see Exelby being dealt right after he was acquired, but, you never know . . . nah, I do know - he is staying in Toronto for now. So, that leaves Van Ryn, Frogren, Stralman, and maybe White for the right deal.
The more I think about this, the more I think this rumour may not have legs . . . Toronto should be looking at a team that has a pretty thin defence and some good young snipers (not superstars, but solid players). But it's Chicago sources that gave the rumour, not Toronto ones (which you can never rely on), so there must be something to it.
Maybe Toronto should be looking at Florida, Buffalo, Columbus, LA . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 05:21:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest5382
quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
Believe me, I've had the pleasure of discussing this with the late, great Steve Stavros. So if anyone knew, it was him...
Gee Rambo, you might want to talk your Steve Stavros (if you are going to drop a name might as well say someone completely irrelevant like Pele) about the NHL CBA. You know that new CBA that they went on strike for that includes something called salary cap and the new rules about how you can't trade cash anymore.
(with an Apu accent from the Simpsons) Thank you come again.
Do you even know who Steve Stavros is, or was? Do a Google search and tell me he wouldn't know how it works.
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 05:26:07
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Yeah, I think of the available players that Chicago might be willing to part with, Sharp and Versteeg would be guys Toronto would definitely be interested in.
I don't see Kaberle being moved, and certainly Kane and Toews are untouchable.
Beans - I know what you are saying about Chicago's D, but reports out of Chicago say that they are looking for some tougher defensive defencemen . . . so I am not sure if Chicago is the right team for Toronto's surplus. I really don't see Exelby being dealt right after he was acquired, but, you never know . . . nah, I do know - he is staying in Toronto for now. So, that leaves Van Ryn, Frogren, Stralman, and maybe White for the right deal.
The more I think about this, the more I think this rumour may not have legs . . . Toronto should be looking at a team that has a pretty thin defence and some good young snipers (not superstars, but solid players). But it's Chicago sources that gave the rumour, not Toronto ones (which you can never rely on), so there must be something to it.
Maybe Toronto should be looking at Florida, Buffalo, Columbus, LA . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Chi-town needs toughness on the back end, agree. Also, Kane and Toews, no players are untouchable if the price is right. In this case, you'd pretty much have to sell your soul. As for Kabby, like you said, staying put (unless Burke gets full value, hence, the right price)...
As much as I agree with your opinion on dealing to teams with a weak defensive core. I doubt any move will happen. Burke's put together a very, very solid core and doesn't want to upset that. He'll look to find scoring from within, or bring someone in, but at the same time, keeping the D intact.
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 05:48:19
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Although I'm not arguing with what people are saying, if I am the GM in Chicago, I am fine with my toughness. Looking at Chicago's playoff run against Calgary and Vancouver specifically, they did not look to be man handles once. They are not lacking toughness that I see.
Slozo, I think you are right. I think Burke should be looking in some other directions to find the scoring. Sharp is more of a 2nd fiddle offesive player. A lot like the guys already in TO. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 06:30:24
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Steve Stavro died before the lockout. He never knew how this current CBA operated.
As far as this fantasy chicago-leafs trade, it doesnt really seem to make sense for either team. The only reason chicago would be making a deal is to dump salary. So why would they take back a 4.25mil a season contract in kaberle, when they dont have the cap space for it. Never mind the fact that they already have 4 top NHL dmen in Seabrook, Keith, Barker and Campbell.
Maybe the leafs could send Kaberle for Campbell as well as a top winger in Sharp or Versteeg thrown in as well as a favour for taking Campbells contract. Burke would be dump as hell to take on campbell though, so I doubt it would ever happen.
If the leafs are dealing kaberle, it wont be to chicago. and if chicago wants to dump salary, they are going to have to accept a trade that they normally wouldnt want to do. No wonder tallon got fired, he has f***ed their cap beyond beleif. The signing of hossa is going to cost them one of their cornerstone players next year.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 09:52:46
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| I'm not a fan of Burke, but even i can say he's smart enough to not take on Campbell's contract. Chicago looks to be stuck with that one. It's kinda like Briere in Philly (too much money) although i think Briere's still got what it takes to contribute at least somewhat close to the level of pay he gets. Campbell on the other hand, nope. Always considered him overrated. |
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Guest0915
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Posted - 07/16/2009 : 22:40:01
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To Toronto: P. Sharp
To Chicago: Frogren, White, and 2010 3rd round pick
OR
To Chicago: Exelby and 3rd round pick 2010 |
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Chicago - Toronto Trade? 
