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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
 Posted - 08/24/2009 : 22:46:46
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Poll Question:
Had an interesting poll on the Team1040 sports radio here in Vancouver this morning. The question was this:
Would you rather see the Canucks win the Stanley Cup this season or have the Olympic Hockey Team win Gold?
Only heard it part way through but the Canucks were running away with it at over 80%! Yeah, this city is starved for a cup!
My question to you is this: Would you rather your home team (or favorite i guess) win Lord Stanley's mug or Canada win gold (or USA for any American posters)???
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2009 : 23:00:56
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There is something about a Gold Medal that says "Best in the World" and that's something special. Take nothing away from the 82 regular season games + 16 more wins to get a Cup. But, there have been how many Stanley Cups awarded?? The Gold Medal is like a Stanley Cup but only once every 4 years. Rarely the same players and often, it's a once in a lifetime thing. There are various multiple Cup winners, but how many multiple Gold Medal winners??
I like the Gold. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 02:29:04
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Interesting question, but considering that I have already witnessed my country win the olympic gold, I will have to say I would rather see the Canucks win the cup. Though it is pretty equal if you ask me.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Guest6196
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Posted - 08/25/2009 : 05:49:38
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Great topic, i would say the Stanley Cup due to the excitement it brings to the cities involved. The atmosphere for a playoff run to the cup, lasts longer on the calendar and in my memory as a fan, I will always remember being in Van in 94, Edm 06, Cal 04 and Ott 07.
As far as gold medal games, I remember who has won but it seems like the distant past.
Stanley Cup all the way
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 07:41:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
There is something about a Gold Medal that says "Best in the World" and that's something special. Take nothing away from the 82 regular season games + 16 more wins to get a Cup. But, there have been how many Stanley Cups awarded?? The Gold Medal is like a Stanley Cup but only once every 4 years. Rarely the same players and often, it's a once in a lifetime thing. There are various multiple Cup winners, but how many multiple Gold Medal winners??
I like the Gold.
Beans, well said, but us Canucks fans aren't as fortunate as guys like you (Oilers fans) who've seen the cup raised plenty o' times!
I look at it this way, if i could be center ice, row 15, game seven and see ANY Canuck pop in an OT goal to clinch the cup, that'd be a slight edge over watching a guy i usually cheer against (when playing the Canucks at least) pop in the winner in OT for the gold. I love the Olympics, i love my country, but the gold is something we EXPECT to win. Can't say that about my 'Nucks!
Oh, and if it were Pronger with the OT winner for the gold, i might have trouble enjoying it......i hate that pr1ck! But yeah, i'll be cheering for him come Feb i guess? 
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 08:17:22
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Think of it this way. Where were you in Sept 87(if you were alive)??? I am guessing watching Gretzky and Lemieux meet on one of the most memerable goals in Hockey history. Where where you in '98 when Hasek broke the hearts of the entire nation and Gretzky sat on the bench with his head bowed?? Where where you when Lemieux dummied(if you know soccer you will understand) the puck to Kariya and Sakic potting the game winner in Salt Lake City???
Now, where were you in 87 when the Oilers won the Cup??? Where were you in 98 when the Devils won the Cup???
You will alway remember the huge international moments over the Stanley Cup moments, regardless of you have never had your home team win the Cup.
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Guest6196
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Posted - 08/25/2009 : 08:38:36
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| Those are all vivid memories, huge international moments (hockey or not) will always be remembered. Who can forget, plus those highlights are always shown to not let you forget. But at the end of the day I remember the playoffs and cup finals. The buss the cities provide, and the feeling of an entire city coming together to cheer and party, the feeling that comes over my body will always be greater than an international win. Good or bad, Steve Smith stands out. A great Edm memory is when Winnipeg was leading Edm 3-1 in the series and 3-1 going into the third; a somewhat unknown Bill Ranford got his shot and won the cup. These types of moments will never be shown nation wide and i understand that, and that could be why people forget,Those moments bring cities together to rally. I understand the country comes together for international play but it does not seem as close and personal as a city cheering together. In Cal in 04, most businesses took on the Flames colours. |
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Guest4942
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Posted - 08/25/2009 : 08:57:10
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While being a huge Flames fan and wanting nothing more than to see them hoist the cup, I must say that I would rather have the Olympic gold. I would be curious to ask Jarome here in Calgary whether he would rather win another gold with team Canada, or win the cup. Even though he has already won a gold medal, I'm sure he would choose it again. Lots of hockey players have a cup ring (heck everyone in the organisation gets one, trainers, doctors, managers, players who play 30 regular season games but not in the playoffs etc.) owning an Olympic gold is something much more special.
A player can only make an Olympic squad 4 or 5 times at most in a prominant hockey country, it's possible to have 20+ shots at the cup even when you can barely skate anymore(Chelios). Plus there is something about national pride that is appealing, the NHL is a job for players with the cup just being a nice bonus. Winning and taking home a gold for all the people of your country (especially while being the Olympic host) has to be an unbeatable feeling.
Gold all the way, no way around it. |
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just1n
PickupHockey Pro
282 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 09:33:54
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This brought up very vague memories of the 1994 gold medal game where Peter Forsberg scored the winner on Corey Hirsch in the shootout. Man that hurt. I remember where I was for the 98 game when Linden tied it up to send it to OT (and the eventual loss), and who I watched the '02 game with when... So obviously these moments stick in my head.
I live in Vancouver, so it would be unbelievably epic to experience this city if the Canadians won Gold but.... I would take a Canuck Stanley Cup win over the gold medal, hands down. The Olympics is a 2 weeks tournament, the battle for the Cup is essentially 8-9 months long. The excitement in this Province and City would be way higher for Lord Stanley. |
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sharksfan44
Rookie
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 10:20:50
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| this is a tough question. i would have to say that i would rather see my beloved sharks take home their first cup than canada win gold. dont get me wrong i cheer for canada in the olympics almost as passionately as i do the sharks. but seeing as the sharks have never won the cup, never even being to the final and having such BAD playoff performances, i'd rather see them win the cup. |
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 10:26:24
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Canada all the way!
there is nothing like a country-wide celebration for Canadians winning at their sport versus specfific fan-based celebration in one city. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 10:38:15
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tough choice. Its hard to argue against the great points a few of you made in favor of the gold medal, but a leafs stanley cup win would have me weeping uncontrolably for months... I dont think I could say the same about a Gold medal win.
I would enjoy the passion of a nation coming together for a great moment in sports history alot though. Even when Canada won Gold at the juniors this year It was a wild celebration, the olympics are going to be unreal.
At this point Id take a Leafs Cup, later in life I think Id look back and see that a Gold is more important
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 13:07:09
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beans, i was def alive and well in '87 watching that memorable goal that i see replayed many times yearly and still get goose bumps! In '98 i was at home, first watching Linden (a friend of a close friend of mine) look to be the hero, tying the game with just over a minute left to force OT (which Canada dominated if my memory serves me correctly) and then watching, while banging my head against the wall, a defenseman get chosen over the greatest player to ever play the game in the shootout. During the gold medal SLC game, i was at a buddy's place watching the "dummy" (i've played soccer my whole life so i know the term) and loving every minute of the gold medal celebration. Believe me, those moments were absolutely awesome!
HOWEVER....i was also alive in '82 when this city went wild with the Canucks incredibly surprising run to the final. I was young then and more or less remember it as a young fan. In '94, i was old enough hit the bar scene and remember just how crazy this city went! It was one thing to have the most talented player this organization has ever had in Bure, but to have Linden play his heart out and lead the team to game 7 in NY (after trailing 3-1) was simply unbelievable. I can't say what other cities are like during cup runs but i've never seen something like it around here. After game 6 here in Van, we were downtown celebrating with thousands and thousands. I hate to think of the aftermath of the game 7 loss as the riots really put a bad mark on this city and i was embarrassed to live here. I was not involved (stayed at a local hangout and avoided downtown) but it's still my city! What a difference it was after the game 6 win compared to the loss in game 7. After game 6 there were very minimal incidents downtown as everyone was so happy that it was just a big happy celebration. I can only hope if we do win the cup one day that it'll be like that and not the riots after the game 7 loss.
All i'm saying is i've seen this city and felt the emotions after a gold medal for Canada and after a couple of near misses for the Canucks. No way in my mind the gold medal, even though it's played in our city, matches up to what a Canucks Cup win would mean around here.
Like i said before, it may only be once every 4 years, but Canada is expected to win EVERY time (in our minds at least) as they're still the dominant nation. It'd be like the USA winning basketball gold. It's EXPECTED, but it doesn't always happen. The Canucks have been around for almost 40 seasons without a cup. That'd be like Team Canada going 160 years without gold. If that were the case, i'd prob pick the Gold over the Stanley Cup? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 17:46:28
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I can appreciate the teams that have never won a Cup or those who have waited a very long time between Cups or even Cup runs. All I am saying is that the Cup is a yearly thing. In 5 years, I will not remember many things if any at all from the last Oilers Cup run. I remember very few things from their last Cup in 1990.
However, I will remember the look on my friends faces and the cheering and the feeling when Sakic scored that goal in 2002 and Gretzky went nutz in the press box.
I want more of those memories. I want more Gold Medals. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 18:03:03
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I clearly remember running up and down Yonge St, slapping hands with strangers and whooping it up, after watching Canada win 5-2 over the US to win the gold medal. I was really touched afterward, thinking about all the serious goodwill and joy that flowed onto the streets that night in Canada's biggest city, knowing as well that the very same celebration was happening in cities all over Canada. Just knowing that, was special.
I will cherish that moment deeply, and for sure it is etched in my memory.
But just as poignant a memory is the loss to the LA Kings in game 7 with all the drama between Killer and 99 . . . that memory, to me, is just as strong. It's another sport, but I remember both World Series victories just as well, especially the first - same thing, march down Yonge, huge milling crowd that almost crushed our girlfriends, crazy party.
Hold up . . . I remember losing in a semi-final just as well as winning a championship?!? Yes.
I can tell you now, solemnly, that the Leafs winning would be twice as poignant, special, memorable - whatever you want to call it - than anything, including an Olympic gold. I've seen the Olympic gold in my lifetime; never a cup for my team. I grew up watching NHL hockey, hoping against hope my home team would somehow pull off the miracle this year, and although we came sorta close a couple of years, it never happened. I can confidently say that in my lifetime, I expect to see at least two more gold medals for the Canadian men. I have far, far less confidence about my Leafs.
Hometown cup first, Olympic gold second.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
Edited by - n/a on 08/25/2009 18:05:11 |
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 18:46:23
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I clearly remember running up and down Yonge St, slapping hands with strangers and whooping it up, after watching Canada win 5-2 over the US to win the gold medal. I was really touched afterward, thinking about all the serious goodwill and joy that flowed onto the streets that night in Canada's biggest city, knowing as well that the very same celebration was happening in cities all over Canada. Just knowing that, was special.
I will cherish that moment deeply, and for sure it is etched in my memory.
But just as poignant a memory is the loss to the LA Kings in game 7 with all the drama between Killer and 99 . . . that memory, to me, is just as strong. It's another sport, but I remember both World Series victories just as well, especially the first - same thing, march down Yonge, huge milling crowd that almost crushed our girlfriends, crazy party.
Hold up . . . I remember losing in a semi-final just as well as winning a championship?!? Yes.
I can tell you now, solemnly, that the Leafs winning would be twice as poignant, special, memorable - whatever you want to call it - than anything, including an Olympic gold. I've seen the Olympic gold in my lifetime; never a cup for my team. I grew up watching NHL hockey, hoping against hope my home team would somehow pull off the miracle this year, and although we came sorta close a couple of years, it never happened. I can confidently say that in my lifetime, I expect to see at least two more gold medals for the Canadian men. I have far, far less confidence about my Leafs.
Hometown cup first, Olympic gold second.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
I agree with Slozo. In the end, I can't help but feel that a Stanley Cup win by either the Habs or the 'Nucks would be more exciting for me. I remember where I was when Canada won gold in 2002, but I also remember where I was in '93 when Roy won the Cup, I remember the loss to Calgary in '89 and the win in '86. I was ten in 1986 and had just started watching hockey full time, my older brother being a Habs fan made me into a Habs fan. I can't speak on 1994 as I hated the 'Nucks then. You would, too, after relocating to Band Wagon City a year removed from one of the greatest goalie performances in playoff history to hear that (and I quote) "Roy? he's not nearly as good as Kirk McLean".. this from a roommate in the dorms of UBC in my freshman year. What a fool. Now, however, I can say that if I had a choice between Canada winning Gold or the 'Nucks winning the Cup...I'd take the Cup.
That being said, if I can have Vancouver home to two Championships for teams that I love.... even better.
A hockey wet dream for me this year would be....
World Junior Gold
Women's Gold
Men's Gold
Habs vs 'Nucks Final<---- I'd want Montreal to crush Vancouver, 4-0. If it were close we'd never hear the end of the fans here. Even worse, if they won. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 20:13:26
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Beans, maybe it's because the Oilers have won multiple cups but i can guaranfreakintee you that if the 'Nucks were to win the cup in 2010, i will remember details of it and the celebration for the rest of my life! Considering the details i remember from '94 (which was a loss) i'm sure the win would be everlasting!
Slozo...you bring back a great memory from the Canada gold medal victory over the US. I remember them showing Yonge street and a couple other places in Toronto DURING the game. It was like the earth had come to an end. Not a single person or moving vehicle in sight! EVERYONE was watching! The celebration reminds me of what i described earlier what Vancouver was like after the game 6 final victory here in '94. High fiving and hugging total strangers! It was epic! As for your g/f getting crushed, c'mon, you have/had one? Who you trying to fool? J/K (100% joking here pal)....
redneck...if the Habs beat the 'Nucks for the cup, i'm sorry on behalf of Canucks fans everywhere, but they'd prob lay a beat down on you !!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 06:56:56
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Realistically, the Oilers have not won a Cup in nearly 20 years. My feelings towards International Success over NHL Success has nothing to do with how many Cups the Oilers have won. It has to do with National Pride. It has to do with what I think is a far bigger stage than the Stanley. I mean, the Stanley Cup is barely celebrated in most parts of North America where as the Olympic Men's Hockey Gold Medal is coveted in (at the least) the entire Northern Hemisphere of the world. It is the most Coveted Medal at the biggest competition for winter sport. It's a time where a fan like me and a fan like Slozo(who most can see barely agree on anything) can stand shoulder to shoulder both cheering for the same thing to happen.
It's national. It's not a city. That will alway be bigger to me. And to the folks who bring up Yonge Street after the win over the US in 2002. If the Leafs win the Cup, Yonge Street celebrates. When Canada wins the Gold, there is a Yonge Street in every Canada City that is celebrating. I know when I am sitting in a pub with all of my friends on Whyte Ave watching Canada win the Gold Medal in a few month, it will make memories that will last a lifetime.
It's bigger and more impactful on a larger scale.
But take nothing away from the Stanley Cup. I am waiting for the day the Leafs win, because that will be huge. Vancouver too. But I'll still take the Gold Medal over the Stanley Cup. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 08:10:48
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This is exactly why i posed this question, to see a few different opinions on what was more important to those here. Beans, i hope you don't consider me any less patriotic than you but i just can't prioritize a gold medal in a sport we SHOULD win with professional athletes allowed to compete. The gold in hockey over the years has been such a skewed result as Russia allowed it's "pros" for many years and we didn't. With the success we've had, and the expectation to win it each Olympic, it just doesn't rank up there with something that "my" team hasn't accomplished.
I'd really love for Roberto Luongo to sign up and answer this! THAT would be an interesting reply!!!  |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 10:53:17
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| I'm gonna go with my team winning the cup since we live in Canada we have a shot every year to win Gold, NHL teams dont (usually), but if I lived in say Latvia I would choose olympic gold. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 11:01:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
This is exactly why i posed this question, to see a few different opinions on what was more important to those here. Beans, i hope you don't consider me any less patriotic than you but i just can't prioritize a gold medal in a sport we SHOULD win with professional athletes allowed to compete. The gold in hockey over the years has been such a skewed result as Russia allowed it's "pros" for many years and we didn't. With the success we've had, and the expectation to win it each Olympic, it just doesn't rank up there with something that "my" team hasn't accomplished.
I'd really love for Roberto Luongo to sign up and answer this! THAT would be an interesting reply!!!
But doesn't your own team have the expectation to win the Cup?? Doesn't every team have the expectation to win the Cup every year?? That is the measure of success. No different than the Silver Medal at the Olympics. No one remembers 2nd place and no one plays for 2nd place.
And is it not the same expectation to win the Gold Medal in Sweden, the Czech Republic, Russia, the US, Finland, etc? The Russian Ice Hockey Federation does not sit in a room and say if they win Silver, the 2010 Olympics will be a success. You play to win. Period.
Once every 4 years, the best players in the entire world, on the world stage. No salaries, no trade demands, no stupid locker rooms shlitz. It's hockey-Pure hockey for your country. In my eyes, that trumps anything. Expecially in today's day and age of free agency. Your "team" is not really a team. It's a group of player wearing the same jersey, but it's not a "team". It's not like the 60, 70, and 80's when it was common for a player to never be traded or at the least to see 15-18 of the teams 23ish players together for more than 5 years.
Team Canada is a team. Even though it is not often built, it is a group of players, reasonably consistent who are playing for a common goal other than money.
I like seeing a "Team" win, not a group of players all wearing the same sweater. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 11:33:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
But doesn't your own team have the expectation to win the Cup?? Doesn't every team have the expectation to win the Cup every year?? That is the measure of success. No different than the Silver Medal at the Olympics. No one remembers 2nd place and no one plays for 2nd place.
And is it not the same expectation to win the Gold Medal in Sweden, the Czech Republic, Russia, the US, Finland, etc? The Russian Ice Hockey Federation does not sit in a room and say if they win Silver, the 2010 Olympics will be a success. You play to win. Period.
Once every 4 years, the best players in the entire world, on the world stage. No salaries, no trade demands, no stupid locker rooms shlitz. It's hockey-Pure hockey for your country. In my eyes, that trumps anything. Expecially in today's day and age of free agency. Your "team" is not really a team. It's a group of player wearing the same jersey, but it's not a "team". It's not like the 60, 70, and 80's when it was common for a player to never be traded or at the least to see 15-18 of the teams 23ish players together for more than 5 years.
Team Canada is a team. Even though it is not often built, it is a group of players, reasonably consistent who are playing for a common goal other than money.
I like seeing a "Team" win, not a group of players all wearing the same sweater.
I couldn't disagree more! Beans, tell me this: Are you expecting gold out of Canada this year? I'm guessing your answer is YES. Now, are you expecting a Stanley Cup in Edmonton this year? I'm hoping for your sake that your answer is NO! Yeah, we all want our teams to win the Cup, but let's face it, it's not even remotely fair to say you expect it!
As for the other teams expecting gold, c'mon, give your head a shake! Do you really think that if Finland puts up a good fight and loses to Canada in the Gold Medal game they'd call it failure in the overall picture? I can almost guarantee you they'd be happy to have made it there. I know ultimately EVERY team's goal is to win, but to be realistic, there's a few teams in this years Olympics that behind closed doors not only know they have a very minimal chance at gold, but they'd be happy with ANY medal! If i could get someone from one of those teams to admit their realistic goals, which they prob won't, i'd call it fact!
How about this. Does Asafa Powell enter the 100m dash EXPECTING to beat Usain Bolt? Prob not. I mean, i'm sure he knows he COULD, but i'd bet he doesn't EXPECT to!
To call "my team" (the Canucks), not a team is absolutely absurd. Just because there's changes from year to year and salaries, you figure it's not a team? C'mon, think about what you're saying. You wanna argue that Team Canada is more of a team? Yeah, sure....
The core of and NHL team are together usually for 3-5 years MINIMUM, often longer. This would be the core to which some changes do come. These guys, for 8-9 months a year, travel, play, practice, eat, hang out, bang chicks, etc, etc TOGETHER! Team Canada has a 3 day orientation camp, a practice or two just before the games and then goes out and does their best to find the necessary chemistry to win a gold medal. Yeah, for two weeks or so they do similar to what an NHL team does but like i said, the NHL team is doing this for three quarters of a freakin' year!!! Obviously they're both teams as far as the word is concerned, but your statement that "Your team is not really a team" is a joke. That you're saying Team Canada is more of a team is arguably more laughable IMO............ |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 08/26/2009 : 12:29:56
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Today's hockey teams are not much more of a "Team" than our new "Canadian" team currently being assembled.
Hypothetically:
Say the Habs had beaten Leafs last year in Cup final with Komi on Habs team scoring winning goal in overtime of 7th game in Toronto.
And then say Leafs win this year in Cup final with Komi dominating the small habs forwards and making minced meat out of them.
Leafs would be cheering Komi in the Cup parade one year after they booed the crap out of him for destroying the Leafs...?
So much for a "team" at the local level when you have, i think, more of a "team" at a national level...
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 12:50:01
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The intangible here is the fact that everyone on team (insert nation here) has the same blood, and come from the same place. Often alot of guys who play on the national teams have known each other for years and have played with or against each other for just as long. When a team made up of people all from the same nation it can bring a sense of togetherness and the "us against the world" mentality that just doesnt exist on alot of NHL clubs.
I dont want this to turn into a blanket statement as im sure alot of NHL clubs are very close, but when countries get involved it just seems to crank up the intensity.
I think that a Cup win is bigger in one specific city than a Gold medal would be. But the medal stretches much further than the cup. Everyone across canada will be excited about the gold but i think the atmosphere in a cup winning city would be better than a gold.
Toronto would be a perfect example. There is no doubt that if Canada wins Gold the party in T.O will be huge, but I don't think it would compare to a Leafs cup win.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 13:00:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
But doesn't your own team have the expectation to win the Cup?? Doesn't every team have the expectation to win the Cup every year?? That is the measure of success. No different than the Silver Medal at the Olympics. No one remembers 2nd place and no one plays for 2nd place.
And is it not the same expectation to win the Gold Medal in Sweden, the Czech Republic, Russia, the US, Finland, etc? The Russian Ice Hockey Federation does not sit in a room and say if they win Silver, the 2010 Olympics will be a success. You play to win. Period.
Once every 4 years, the best players in the entire world, on the world stage. No salaries, no trade demands, no stupid locker rooms shlitz. It's hockey-Pure hockey for your country. In my eyes, that trumps anything. Expecially in today's day and age of free agency. Your "team" is not really a team. It's a group of player wearing the same jersey, but it's not a "team". It's not like the 60, 70, and 80's when it was common for a player to never be traded or at the least to see 15-18 of the teams 23ish players together for more than 5 years.
Team Canada is a team. Even though it is not often built, it is a group of players, reasonably consistent who are playing for a common goal other than money.
I like seeing a "Team" win, not a group of players all wearing the same sweater.
I couldn't disagree more! Beans, tell me this: Are you expecting gold out of Canada this year? I'm guessing your answer is YES. Now, are you expecting a Stanley Cup in Edmonton this year? I'm hoping for your sake that your answer is NO! Yeah, we all want our teams to win the Cup, but let's face it, it's not even remotely fair to say you expect it!
As for the other teams expecting gold, c'mon, give your head a shake! Do you really think that if Finland puts up a good fight and loses to Canada in the Gold Medal game they'd call it failure in the overall picture? I can almost guarantee you they'd be happy to have made it there. I know ultimately EVERY team's goal is to win, but to be realistic, there's a few teams in this years Olympics that behind closed doors not only know they have a very minimal chance at gold, but they'd be happy with ANY medal! If i could get someone from one of those teams to admit their realistic goals, which they prob won't, i'd call it fact!
How about this. Does Asafa Powell enter the 100m dash EXPECTING to beat Usain Bolt? Prob not. I mean, i'm sure he knows he COULD, but i'd bet he doesn't EXPECT to!
To call "my team" (the Canucks), not a team is absolutely absurd. Just because there's changes from year to year and salaries, you figure it's not a team? C'mon, think about what you're saying. You wanna argue that Team Canada is more of a team? Yeah, sure....
The core of and NHL team are together usually for 3-5 years MINIMUM, often longer. This would be the core to which some changes do come. These guys, for 8-9 months a year, travel, play, practice, eat, hang out, bang chicks, etc, etc TOGETHER! Team Canada has a 3 day orientation camp, a practice or two just before the games and then goes out and does their best to find the necessary chemistry to win a gold medal. Yeah, for two weeks or so they do similar to what an NHL team does but like i said, the NHL team is doing this for three quarters of a freakin' year!!! Obviously they're both teams as far as the word is concerned, but your statement that "Your team is not really a team" is a joke. That you're saying Team Canada is more of a team is arguably more laughable IMO............
Couple of things, firstly yes, I expect the Oilers to win the Cup every year. I am also a realist and understand this is not likely. However, the day I stop cheering for the Oilers to win, succeed, and therefore win the Cup, is the day I stop being a Hockey Fan.
Secondly, Asafa Powell would not even enter the race if he didn't think he could win. People don't compete on a global scale for fun. It's to win. Period. That is my uber competativeness. I do not do something I don't think I can win.
And I strongly believe that the guys on team Canada are more of a team that literally any NHL team. What are those NHL guys playing for? The Stanley Cup, right?? They can do that on literally 30 different teams. But if they are competing for the Gold Medal, how many teams can one compete on for that. One. What is the motivation for the Cup. Does an NHL player receive significant financial gains for winning the Cup?? Or, does an NHL player receive significant financial gains from personal success and production??? The NHL player can do as well or better without winning the Cup.
Just my opinion. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 13:49:32
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7752.... That's possible, yes. I did say that there are changes from year to year on every team. However, i don't see how this makes a National team which is together for all of 2+ weeks "more of a team" than a group which is together for an entire NHL season. Throw in the fact that 50-75% or more of most squads are together for longer than that and i'd still say an NHL squad is more of a team.
Matt... i do understand what you mean by the intensity getting cranked up for national team games. However, i'd say this is mostly at the Olympics and only since the NHL began halting it's schedule to allow it's players to participate. As for your quote "I think that a Cup win is bigger in one specific city than a Gold medal would be. But the medal stretches much further than the cup.", i'd say this is obviously because there are more Canadians cheering for Team Canada than there are cheering for any one NHL franchise. Even though you Leaf fans infiltrate all the other cities, there's still not more Leaf fans than Team Canada fans !!!
Beans, maybe our definitions of "expect" differ? I use the word in a way that says something is most likely to happen. Not always, but likely. You perhaps, are using it to say something you hope or would like to see happen? Oh, and at no point did i imply that you or anyone else should stop "cheering for your team to win....". As for Asafa Powell, yes, he believes he can win every race, and he is correct! Is he likely to, vs Bolt? NO. It'd be like me racing Bolt. I COULD win. He, and the other 6 guys could come up with a pulled hammy, trip and fall, get dq'd, etc and my blazing time of 23 21 seconds could take the gold. HOWEVER, i wouldn't EXPECT to win.
What is it you're saying in your last paragraph anyway? That because there's only 1 team Canada, thus making it harder for any player to get the chance for gold, that it's more of a team? Please explain?
I could argue that because some guys who'll never make their national team but have a chance at the cup become tighter as a group and form more of a team.
Here's a question to you all. Let's say our good buddy Bettman decides NHLers are no longer gonna be allowed to participate at the games and it goes back to younger, junior guys, amateurs, or whoever. THEN, would you rather a gold medal for your country or a Stanley Cup for your NHL team? Think about it.... |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 21:12:25
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Mr Alex, I will focus on just a couple of things. Firstly, the Usana Bolt/Asafa Powell analogy doesn't really make sense to me. Honestly, Asafa Powell has a LEGITIMATE chance of winning any 100 meter race. That's why he continues to race. When he not longer has a LEGITIMATE chance to win, he will not longer compete at the level he does. Asafa Powell running the 100 m is not the same as you, unless you can break 10 seconds in the 100 m these days. When you are one of the handful of people in the world that can run a sub-10 second 100 meter, you have a legitimate shot at winning any race.
Whatever, it's really irrelevant.
Now, the reason I say that the Team Canada is more of a team than any NHL team is this. On Team Canada, there is one goal. They are all there to win the Gold Medal. The definition of team is a group of people or animals linked in a common purpose. That is Team Canada. Common purpose. NHL team, individual goals, some might be common, but not all. Some guys are simply playing to keep their jobs. Not to win the Cup. Some are for the money and the girls, not the Cup. The player on TEAM Canada are a team by definition. The NHL teams, by definition, are not.
And I can honestly say that I would take a Gold Medal at the Olympics over any league reward in any sport, Stanley Cup or otherwise. My personal opinion is that there is not a single award givin in any sport that is bigger than an Olympic Gold Medal. There is not a higher honor an athlete can receive than to be part of a team or an indivudual who is the best in the world at what they do for the country they are part of. That's it. It's the crest on the front not the name on the back and it's being the very very best.
Nothing trumps that. If you pop the Genie out of the lamp right now and I can pick a Gold Medal in Vancouver(on home soil)full of Amateur players in 2010 or an Oilers Stanley Cup in 2010, the genie couldn't finish the question before I say Gold Medal. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 00:38:19
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Beans...i really wanna just shut this down, but it's tough. The Asafa Powell reference is relevant in our discussion/debate whether you want to admit it or not. It's all to do with EXPECTATIONS vs LEGITIMATE CHANCES vs WHAT COULD HAPPEN, etc. Yeah, Powell has a chance to win, but no one EXPECTS him to! Nuff said......
I'm done debating what a team is. Have a look at what TEAM is defined as in the dictionary and you'll see. In the dictionary i checked, it says nothing about being "linked in a commone purpose" and to be honest, even if it did, you could argue what that common purpose is in another thread? Maybe we should? That new thread could take us to the start of the season?
As for your declaration that you'd take an Olympic gold medal over any league reward in any sport, WOW! You must be the most patriotic person in the history of the human race! I can honestly say, that as proud as i was of Duff Gibson's gold medal in the Skeleton in Torino, i'd gladly swap that for a Canucks Stanley Cup win! Congrats Duff, but sorry, if i had a say and it was your gold or a Canucks Cup, you might have wiped out?
As for that Genie....i sure hope he/she comes to Vancouver and finds me before heading off to Edmonton in search of you!
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Kirby
Top Prospect
Canada
66 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 03:29:46
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This is a really tough one, but I had to go with the cup. Ive seen my country win the gold. But my team fell one game short and throughout the rest of my life have been mediocre for the most part. All I hear about is the glory days of Edmonton, while never experiencing it for myself. I got a taste during their run, but it wasnt enough for me, I want the Oilers to win the cup. I want to see it just once, after that, its definatley the gold medal. And also, I can remember watching the 2006 playoffs better than the 2002 Olympics. I remember Salos blunder, watching the game, and celebrating with everyone that was there watching the game. During the playoff run, I remember being glued to the tv, starting to almost cry as the Oilers lost the finals, getting pissed off that the Oilers lost in overtime to Detroit, only to find out it went under the net. I remember Rolosons spectacular save on Cheechoo and the double overtime win to give us the first win against San Jose. I remember the pandamonium after Pisanis game 5 shorthanded OT winner. I remember celebrating and watching with my dad and friends throughout the entire playoffs, and getting pissed off when I had to miss part of Game 6 against Detroit, and coming home to watch the 3rd period of the Oilers spectacular comeback. There are so many more memories from the 2006 playoffs the the 2002 Olympics, and the Oilers didnt even win the cup.
I skate where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.-Wayne Gretzky |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 06:20:38
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I think it's the fact that the average fan invest so much more of himself/herself and time into their favorite NHL club as opposed to national teams that is making this a bit of a split decision.
Die hard fans are following their favorite team 24/7/365. With the olympics only happening once every four years, fans may not have as much emotionally invested in the games as they would for the team that they live and die by all year round. This is not to say that emotions don't run high for the olympics, becasue they most certainly do, its just that those same emotions are running wild for your favorite NHL club all the time.
Strictly from a hockey standpoint, I beleive that the Stanley Cup is the ULTIMATE prize in hockey. The grind of an 82 game season (plus training camp and preseason) followed by all out war in the playoffs, makes the Stanley Cup the hardest pro sport trophy to win (imo). Winning Gold at the olympics goes beyond just hockey, it becomes about national pride and it is a different feeling. I also happen to think that with a single game elimination format, the best team doesn't always walk away with Gold. It can be like the superbowl, where anything can happen and anyone can win because of a broken play here or a fumble there. To win 4 7 game series it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you really were the BEST team, no excuses.
not sure what all this boils down to really, but i think it just depends on how you allocate your own emotional investment in sport.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
Edited by - Matt_Roberts85 on 08/27/2009 06:21:32 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 08:50:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Beans...i really wanna just shut this down, but it's tough. The Asafa Powell reference is relevant in our discussion/debate whether you want to admit it or not. It's all to do with EXPECTATIONS vs LEGITIMATE CHANCES vs WHAT COULD HAPPEN, etc. Yeah, Powell has a chance to win, but no one EXPECTS him to! Nuff said......
I'm done debating what a team is. Have a look at what TEAM is defined as in the dictionary and you'll see. In the dictionary i checked, it says nothing about being "linked in a commone purpose" and to be honest, even if it did, you could argue what that common purpose is in another thread? Maybe we should? That new thread could take us to the start of the season?
As for your declaration that you'd take an Olympic gold medal over any league reward in any sport, WOW! You must be the most patriotic person in the history of the human race! I can honestly say, that as proud as i was of Duff Gibson's gold medal in the Skeleton in Torino, i'd gladly swap that for a Canucks Stanley Cup win! Congrats Duff, but sorry, if i had a say and it was your gold or a Canucks Cup, you might have wiped out?
As for that Genie....i sure hope he/she comes to Vancouver and finds me before heading off to Edmonton in search of you!
I think you might misunderstand one of my comments. I might trade a medal in one sport for an award in another. I mean, you are right, I could personally care less about Skeleton. What I mean was that in a spcific sport, the Gold Medal is top of the world. For example, hockey in North America has various different trophies/awards(Stanley Cup, Memorial Cup, Allen Cup, ETC) but I rank the Gold Medal as the highest in Hockey.
And Asafa Powell is likely to win any 100 m race. He's one of the top 5 people in the world. He can win just as easily or anyone else. And I fail to see how that is relevant to me choosing a Gold Medal or a Stanley Cup in Edmonton. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 09:21:55
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This is not a one size fits all question. I think in Detroit the players are gonna tell you the cup is the #1 motivation, but most Wings players expect to make there prospective countrys Olympics teams based on experience alone. If you took a player from the NYI which realistically has no shot at the stanely cup this year, you would think being called to play for team canada and winning a gold medal would be there #1 goal this year.
And these analogies might be off based on individual players, I mean some players refuse the call to play for Canada to rest for the playoff stretch (Loungo anyone), and other players will put there NHL team in a tough spot to play on the Olympic's. Look at Ironman Kipper and Hasek who could actually have used the rest and risked injury to play in the Olympics, Hasek might have actually cost the Senator's a legitimate shot at the cup the year he got injured in the Olympics
Some fans dont watch most of the Olympics and just expect to watch Canada in the final and call it a failure if they dont get to watch Canada in the gold medal game. I myself dont take time off of work or re-arrange my work schedule for a preliminary round game, but I might for a Flames Playoff game in the 1st round. (Ottawa fan living in Alberta)
And I would definitly beat up a small child for a ticket to a Game 7 final of Ottawa VS either the Flames or Oilers in Alberta. No chance of child abuse or any other crime for that matter for any Olympic game. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 08/27/2009 09:23:19 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 14:50:30
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Josh, easy on the kids!
Beans, yes i misunderstood you so thanks for explaining. I'm happy to hear that skeleton isn't too important to you either. Having said that, i'd love to try it one day! Prob kill myself, but hey, looks pretty fun!
The Asafa Powell reference in fact doesn't have any relevance to you picking an Oilers cup or Gold Medal. I used it as an example of "expectations" as we got a little off topic i guess? I don't agree that he "is likely to win any 100 m race" though. Well, at least, not if Bolt's involved. I don't know where to look, but i'd be willing to bet he hasn't won a 100m race, which Bolt has participated in, in over a year? Therefore, to me, i can't see him "expecting" to win. Regardless, it was just an example i used. Maybe i should have used the Swedish Women's hockey team vs Canada? Surely you get what my point was, even though you disagree with it? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 20:37:43
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JoshuaCanada - I totally agree, it is different for different countries and teams.
Myself, I am ethnically Latvian, so if the upstart Latvians actually pulled off an upset and made it into a final against the Russians say - you can bet I take the day off work for that one! But it would be the same if the Leafs went all the way . . . that's the thing, I rate those two almost the same, but one is a team (Latvia) that basically has almost no chance at all to actually make the gold medal match, never mind win it; and the other is a team that may in the future have as good a chance as the other 8 or 10 good teams that make the playoffs. I am projecting in the future, but you get my point.
However, when we are talking Canada . . . well, been there, done that, and will be doing it again some time in the future, no doubt about it. That same thrill and excitement and pride is just not the same when you have won before and are one of the favourites to do it again. When you haven't won in most fans' lifetimes, and you are in the largest hockey market in the world . . . there is a whole different level of celebration there. I can tell you now, there would be absolute mayhem, riots, city closed down for a week type of response if the Buds ever actually won it all.
So, for me, in order of "specialness" or "memorableness":
1. Leafs win the Stanley Cup
2. Latvia wins Gold, Silver or Bronze
3. Canada wins Gold
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 06:30:27
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| That's a good point Slozo. Some find the luster of winning gets a little boring after a while. But here's an interesting spin. Actually a couple. Firstly, what would your choice be if the Leafs won the Cup in 09??? And, I guess for me, how often can one see their own Country win on home soil??? For me, this will be the 2nd, in more than 30 years. I will be lucky to maybe see this another couple of times in my life. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 08:09:15
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Beans, sorry to jump in as i know your question was to Slozo, but if it were to me and the Canucks winning this past year, i might lean towards the gold in that case.
The "on home soil" thing doesn't really do it for me though. Unless i'm actually at the gold medal game, is there really a difference? I mean, the partying in the streets might be a little better, but how much so? It's not like Crosby, Getzlaf, Iginla and Co. are gonna be running out of GM Place after the game and high fiving the millions? Know what i mean? To actually be in GM Place, that'd be a different story. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 08:35:44
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I'd take the Leafs in '09. Alex116 has a good point about the home soil thing . . . only makes a difference if your actually at the game.
And if I had a choice of being at either game - game 7 Leafs vs Oilers final in Toronto, or the gold medal game in Vancouver Canada vs Russia - it'd be pretty tough, but I'd have to go for the Leafs.
It'd be like picking Gretzky over Lemieux, and would leave me with lots of self-doubting . . . that is, until the Leafs beat the Oil in o/t and the celebration began - then, I would never, ever, give it another thought.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 14:46:03
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I'd take the Leafs in '09. Alex116 has a good point about the home soil thing . . . only makes a difference if your actually at the game.
And if I had a choice of being at either game - game 7 Leafs vs Oilers final in Toronto, or the gold medal game in Vancouver Canada vs Russia - it'd be pretty tough, but I'd have to go for the Leafs.
It'd be like picking Gretzky over Lemieux, and would leave me with lots of self-doubting . . . that is, until the Leafs beat the Oil in o/t and the celebration began - then, I would never, ever, give it another thought.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Touche my man. Although, we all know that the Leafs would never beat the Oilers in any playoff series, let alone for the Cup!
And I think you might have missed the question a little. The Leafs did win in 09 (hypothetically.) Do you know take the Leafs to repeat in '10 or the Olympic Gold in '10??? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 07:30:00
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If the Leafs already won in 09, then yeah, I'd take Olympic gold for team Canada . . . and a silver for team Latvia, of course!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
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sharksfan44
Rookie
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 16:30:56
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| lol, thanks for the AWESOME link beans. |
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Olympic gold, or..... ??? 
