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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
 Posted - 10/06/2009 : 14:17:28
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Pat Lafontaine has come out with a couple ideas that he believes would help attract more american fans.
The first being that each penalty is treated like a major penalty. Which means a 2 minute penalty does not expire and the team will have the opportunity score as many goals as they want until the 2 minutes is up.
The other being if there is less then 5 min to go then you get the option of a penalty shot or the 2 min penalty that does not expire.
Interesting ideas and I am interested in what others think
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Guest2147
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Posted - 10/06/2009 : 14:28:27
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| They use to have that rule, but the Canadiens scored too many powerplay goals back in the day |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 14:59:34
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Let's hope it doesn't come to that... I really don't think that would attract more American fans, they tried that with the stupid glowing puck idea, made it look more like an old school hockey video hockey game....
If the opposing team scores once during the 2 minute minor penalty, then the opposing team did their job, scoring once during a 2 minute period is enough... I think is a stupid idea to change it to a none expiring penalty after a goal, especially when 3/4 of the time the ref makes a bad call...
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 15:30:18
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Yeah I hate it when the whole game is played on the PP. Let the players play there games. There's nothing better then up and down action and you get that at even strength.
More goals doesn't make the game better. Look at soccer, the most popular sport in the world, and they win games with 2 goals all the time. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 17:51:07
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Originally, the penalty rule in the NHL was exactly how the rule used to be. I believe the powerhouse Habs teams in the 70's forced the NHL to change the rule because it was not uncommon to see 2 or even 3 goals during a penalty.
Personally, I don't mind the idea. I prefer watching players compete with skill over players manhandling the other team and taking penalties.
A team that gets a penalty should be punished. That's the point.
As far as the penalty shot or 2 min penalty in the last 5 minutes of the game, I don't see the point. I don't really think the popularity issues in the US is based on goals being scored in the last 5 minutes. The popularity issue is that the NHL competes head to head with NFL football, MLB playoffs, and the NBA. The scheduling is a challenge to do any different, but in most cities the NHL is not the only game in town and often the least popular of the other 3 major sports. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 18:00:11
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Or perhaps instead of handing out a penalty why don't we give the other team a goal? Hey that's a good idea!
Seriously, leave the game alone. it's fine.
If you want to attract more Americans build a better grassroots program accross the country and wait 10 years to reap the results. You need to ingrain the game into the conciousness of the people at a community level. It is most certainly less expensive and more meaningful than dropping hundreds of millions in advertising....and messing with the rules which only alienate existing fans. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 21:30:55
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
Or perhaps instead of handing out a penalty why don't we give the other team a goal? Hey that's a good idea!
Leigh, please explain who would be credited with the goal? Would there be any assists? And most importantly, would Pickuphockey.com be able to track these stats? 
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2009 : 04:19:57
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Pardon my french, but screw the Americans who aren't already fans of the game of hockey.
Leave our game alone!
Tinkering with the game on a constant basis to attract more fans? That's so bush league, I don't even know where to begin . . . the game of hockey is already fast and exciting, it has plenty of exciting goals to watch, and the product is excellent.
Anyone who watched at least some part of the Flyers/Caps game (as I did) knows that this game is just fine as it is . . . exciting stuff!
Take it, or leave it.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2009 : 07:25:58
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I also believe the game is fine how it is today. However, for every Philly/Washington type game, there is a New Jersey/Minnesota type game where two teams play puck posession and trap. As a hockey fan, that even get's boring to me after a while.
I'm not saying change everything, but the idea of a 2 minute PP regardless of the offensive team scoring is something I could live with a lot more than a penalty shot choice in the last 5 minutes or making the nets bigger.
When it comes to the game changing ideas, it's one of the better one's. |
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Guest2797
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Posted - 10/07/2009 : 08:44:39
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| You either like hockey or don't there is no leading the man or women to the game like a horse to water. There is just not enough sensationalism in hockey as in the other "major' sports; the worst offenses it seems by hockey players are the odd bouts with DUI's and the like, unlike the NFL were it seems daily someone is arrested for a variety of insane and felony charges from animal abuses to murder. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2009 : 09:41:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2797
You either like hockey or don't there is no leading the man or women to the game like a horse to water. There is just not enough sensationalism in hockey as in the other "major' sports; the worst offenses it seems by hockey players are the odd bouts with DUI's and the like, unlike the NFL were it seems daily someone is arrested for a variety of insane and felony charges from animal abuses to murder.
This is the quote thats got it figured out for me.
If you want Americans to watch the sport, you need pimps, Drug dealers and Thugs promoting the sport or playing in it. Nothing says a slice of the American pie better than criminal behavior.
Leave the game alone. Its great the way it is, if your gonna change it ask the players who play the game, what they would do to improve the game. Most players will tell you take away hits to the head and running a player to beat the icing call need to change. A wider ice surface would help. Let the skilled players play there games. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2009 : 14:24:33
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I am glad I was not alone in what I was thinking when I first read about this.
I immediately wondered why would the NHL even consider this. Some of mentioned the Habs of the 70's. On todays teams, I think of Ovie and caps being able to net 3 or 4 goals on their potent powerplay.
I agree with everyone here by saying leave the game alone now. If the american audience that Bettman is so desperate to get has not caught on to the game by now, they never will. Perhaps it is too complicated for most? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2009 : 20:06:04
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2797
You either like hockey or don't there is no leading the man or women to the game like a horse to water. There is just not enough sensationalism in hockey as in the other "major' sports; the worst offenses it seems by hockey players are the odd bouts with DUI's and the like, unlike the NFL were it seems daily someone is arrested for a variety of insane and felony charges from animal abuses to murder.
This is the quote thats got it figured out for me.
If you want Americans to watch the sport, you need pimps, Drug dealers and Thugs promoting the sport or playing in it. Nothing says a slice of the American pie better than criminal behavior.
Leave the game alone. Its great the way it is, if your gonna change it ask the players who play the game, what they would do to improve the game. Most players will tell you take away hits to the head and running a player to beat the icing call need to change. A wider ice surface would help. Let the skilled players play there games.
C'mon, get a grip. Pimps and drug dealers??? Not all football, baseball, or basketball players are thugs. For every Michael Vick, there are 5 Drew Brees's out there. Doing good thing in their community, doing charity stuff, working with Kids.
And the success of any American sport has nothing to do with the thugs. It has to do with supreme athletisism and good marketing. Do you honestly think that 100,000 people show up in the new Dallas Stadium to see the thugs or the super stars??? Do you think that 70,000 people show up to Yankee Stadium to see the Pimps??
Get a grip. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 15:39:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2797
You either like hockey or don't there is no leading the man or women to the game like a horse to water. There is just not enough sensationalism in hockey as in the other "major' sports; the worst offenses it seems by hockey players are the odd bouts with DUI's and the like, unlike the NFL were it seems daily someone is arrested for a variety of insane and felony charges from animal abuses to murder.
This is the quote thats got it figured out for me.
If you want Americans to watch the sport, you need pimps, Drug dealers and Thugs promoting the sport or playing in it. Nothing says a slice of the American pie better than criminal behavior.
Leave the game alone. Its great the way it is, if your gonna change it ask the players who play the game, what they would do to improve the game. Most players will tell you take away hits to the head and running a player to beat the icing call need to change. A wider ice surface would help. Let the skilled players play there games.
C'mon, get a grip. Pimps and drug dealers??? Not all football, baseball, or basketball players are thugs. For every Michael Vick, there are 5 Drew Brees's out there. Doing good thing in their community, doing charity stuff, working with Kids.
And the success of any American sport has nothing to do with the thugs. It has to do with supreme athletisism and good marketing. Do you honestly think that 100,000 people show up in the new Dallas Stadium to see the thugs or the super stars??? Do you think that 70,000 people show up to Yankee Stadium to see the Pimps??
Get a grip.
You ever been to a raiders game? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 21:32:09
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Nope, I have never been to a Raider Game, but my father has. He said it was easily the best sporting event he has ever been to. True fans. Rabid, give up your first born to see your team win the championship kind of fans are never there for the thugs.
I fail to see your point??? |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 21:52:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Originally, the penalty rule in the NHL was exactly how the rule used to be. I believe the powerhouse Habs teams in the 70's forced the NHL to change the rule because it was not uncommon to see 2 or even 3 goals during a penalty.
Personally, I don't mind the idea. I prefer watching players compete with skill over players manhandling the other team and taking penalties.
A team that gets a penalty should be punished. That's the point.
As far as the penalty shot or 2 min penalty in the last 5 minutes of the game, I don't see the point. I don't really think the popularity issues in the US is based on goals being scored in the last 5 minutes. The popularity issue is that the NHL competes head to head with NFL football, MLB playoffs, and the NBA. The scheduling is a challenge to do any different, but in most cities the NHL is not the only game in town and often the least popular of the other 3 major sports.
Minor correction Beans. It was the 50's Habitants who caused the rule change. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 21:59:03
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Originally, the penalty rule in the NHL was exactly how the rule used to be. I believe the powerhouse Habs teams in the 70's forced the NHL to change the rule because it was not uncommon to see 2 or even 3 goals during a penalty.
Personally, I don't mind the idea. I prefer watching players compete with skill over players manhandling the other team and taking penalties.
A team that gets a penalty should be punished. That's the point.
As far as the penalty shot or 2 min penalty in the last 5 minutes of the game, I don't see the point. I don't really think the popularity issues in the US is based on goals being scored in the last 5 minutes. The popularity issue is that the NHL competes head to head with NFL football, MLB playoffs, and the NBA. The scheduling is a challenge to do any different, but in most cities the NHL is not the only game in town and often the least popular of the other 3 major sports.
Minor correction Beans. It was the 50's Habitants who caused the rule change.
Well call me a liar for 20 years!
If it wasn't the 50's Habs, it would have been the 70's Habs. Or the 70's Bruins. Or the 80's Islanders, or the 80's Oilers, or the 90's Penguins.
It would have happened eventually......... |
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Guest0858
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Posted - 10/09/2009 : 07:06:28
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ABSOLUTELY NOT - BAD IDEAS. and they would not produce any positive results. The game is already a special teams showdown.
You want to increase to Americans. Get them closer to the players, let them hear some of the chatter on the ice (even as a recording after the fact.) Let them really understand the ins and outs of the action. When a player says "keep your head up next shift because I am coming" and the TV audience actually hears this. Then they could better understand what the players hear and feel.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 13:14:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0858
ABSOLUTELY NOT - BAD IDEAS. and they would not produce any positive results. The game is already a special teams showdown.
You want to increase to Americans. Get them closer to the players, let them hear some of the chatter on the ice (even as a recording after the fact.) Let them really understand the ins and outs of the action. When a player says "keep your head up next shift because I am coming" and the TV audience actually hears this. Then they could better understand what the players hear and feel.
That is absolutly the best idea I have heard in a long time. As long as you have a 5 minute delay to take the potty mouth out of the game.
Hockey is special from the ice. The jarring back and forth between players, coaches and ref's would sell the game, and create the controversy that is lacking to draw in American fans. Even when an unruly fan's get on players in the box. Hearing that would have a huge impact on the TV product IMO. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 13:39:10
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| You know what Guest 0858, your suggestion is something that even the hardcore fan would appreciate. I know they do mic up some players for different things but everyone likes to be more connected to the players and the game. |
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Guest2559
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Posted - 10/09/2009 : 14:06:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0858
ABSOLUTELY NOT - BAD IDEAS. and they would not produce any positive results. The game is already a special teams showdown.
You want to increase to Americans. Get them closer to the players, let them hear some of the chatter on the ice (even as a recording after the fact.) Let them really understand the ins and outs of the action. When a player says "keep your head up next shift because I am coming" and the TV audience actually hears this. Then they could better understand what the players hear and feel.
I love this idea. You don’t have to change any rules you just have to get some top end sound equipment out they’re to pick up what is being said on the ice. This would definitely help a guy that has never played the game before better understand what drives hockey players.
One other thing I read in this forum was instead of spending millions on advertising put that money into minor hockey programs in the us. If you did this over the next ten years it would allow more kids to play the game, and let them to grow up to be hockey fans. In return the kids that are given this opportunity may teach they’re friends about the game and bring more fans to the table. At the very least they teach they’re children about the game someday and start another generation of hockey fans.
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Guest0842
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Posted - 10/09/2009 : 21:45:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2559
At the very least they teach they’re children about the game someday and start another generation of hockey fans.
Average IQ of an American sports viewer is a 10 yr old child.
You want it more popular, just have a 15 to 30 second breaks every 30 seconds of play. That's what baseball and football is and they are very popular but they suck as a viewing sport. But attention span of a 10 year old is only about 30 seconds so might as well try to capture that audience if you are willing to dumb and slow down your sport. Hey hockey will still remain one the fastest sport but only for 30 seconds. Why do you think the 100m dash is so popular in the Olympics? |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2009 : 01:13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Originally, the penalty rule in the NHL was exactly how the rule used to be. I believe the powerhouse Habs teams in the 70's forced the NHL to change the rule because it was not uncommon to see 2 or even 3 goals during a penalty.
Personally, I don't mind the idea. I prefer watching players compete with skill over players manhandling the other team and taking penalties.
A team that gets a penalty should be punished. That's the point.
As far as the penalty shot or 2 min penalty in the last 5 minutes of the game, I don't see the point. I don't really think the popularity issues in the US is based on goals being scored in the last 5 minutes. The popularity issue is that the NHL competes head to head with NFL football, MLB playoffs, and the NBA. The scheduling is a challenge to do any different, but in most cities the NHL is not the only game in town and often the least popular of the other 3 major sports.
you sound way too much like a gary bettman lmao
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2009 : 01:15:57
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
Or perhaps instead of handing out a penalty why don't we give the other team a goal? Hey that's a good idea!
Seriously, leave the game alone. it's fine.
If you want to attract more Americans build a better grassroots program accross the country and wait 10 years to reap the results. You need to ingrain the game into the conciousness of the people at a community level. It is most certainly less expensive and more meaningful than dropping hundreds of millions in advertising....and messing with the rules which only alienate existing fans.
120 Billion % agreed with you on this one
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2009 : 01:18:48
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Pardon my french, but screw the Americans who aren't already fans of the game of hockey.
Leave our game alone!
Tinkering with the game on a constant basis to attract more fans? That's so bush league, I don't even know where to begin . . . the game of hockey is already fast and exciting, it has plenty of exciting goals to watch, and the product is excellent.
Anyone who watched at least some part of the Flyers/Caps game (as I did) knows that this game is just fine as it is . . . exciting stuff!
Take it, or leave it.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
two thumbs up!!! bush = bettman both dirty selfish criminals nuff said
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2009 : 01:21:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I also believe the game is fine how it is today. However, for every Philly/Washington type game, there is a New Jersey/Minnesota type game where two teams play puck posession and trap. As a hockey fan, that even get's boring to me after a while.
I'm not saying change everything, but the idea of a 2 minute PP regardless of the offensive team scoring is something I could live with a lot more than a penalty shot choice in the last 5 minutes or making the nets bigger.
When it comes to the game changing ideas, it's one of the better one's.
for a guy that talks alot about boring hockey how can you call yourself an Oilers fan, man, they are so old school same thing day in day out, you don't call that boring?????????????
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2009 : 08:19:35
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I also believe the game is fine how it is today. However, for every Philly/Washington type game, there is a New Jersey/Minnesota type game where two teams play puck posession and trap. As a hockey fan, that even get's boring to me after a while.
I'm not saying change everything, but the idea of a 2 minute PP regardless of the offensive team scoring is something I could live with a lot more than a penalty shot choice in the last 5 minutes or making the nets bigger.
When it comes to the game changing ideas, it's one of the better one's.
for a guy that talks alot about boring hockey how can you call yourself an Oilers fan, man, they are so old school same thing day in day out, you don't call that boring?????????????
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
We'll it's again obvious that you are speaking about things you do not know. Firstly, Quinn has done wonders in changing the system in Edmonton. Their 2 games against Calgary were some of the best hockey I have watched the Oilers play in maybe the past decade. Secondly, I have said on here that if I wasn't a fan of the Oilers, I would not watch them because they did play a boring brand of hockey.
Secondly, I don't disagree with getting fans down to game level would help Hockey. But does that happen in Football?? Baseball??? Basketball??? Hockey and Basketball are played in the same arena's in many cases. We all know what the nosebleeds are like!
The issue with hockey and Americans is plentyful, the big one is the flow of the game. Consider this, every other popular US sport has TONS of stoppages. The NHL spends as much time playing as they do in huddles, etc. Baseball has a 10-15 second gap(at least) between pitches. Basketball often has foul called on every posession or at least every 2 posessions. What about hockey??? No stoppages. Let's look at another sport that is literally the most popular global sport but is near the bottom of the list in the US. Soccer is another sport that has little to no stopages in the game.
Also, hockey is a sport that one needs to LEARN to enjoy. It's not like Baseball for example, that one can really learn in about one inning. There are often time (regardless of if you admit it or not) where you can not see the puck, but you know where it it based on knowing the game. Every other sport, you never lose site of the object ball. Even in baseball, you can see the 100 mph ball on the screen. You often can not see the 100 mph slapshot until the goalie reacts. Don't lie to youself, you can't see the puck on those shots, you see the goalie.
So that's it in my opinion. Based on that opinion, America never will completely embrace the sport, mostly based on the lack of stoppages. The social aspect of going to a sporting event is too important in the States and the lack of stoppages will always hurt the NHL. And I don't agree that the average American fan has the IQ of a 10 year old child. That's a very arrogant view. I know many American's that are brillaint people. I also know many hockey fans that are as dumb as fence posts.
Because the common American sport fan is different, doesn't make them stupid. Even if you are not a football fan, go and spend a day with 73,000 Packer's Fans in Lambeau Field and come back and try to say something bad about them. I bet you can't. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2009 : 14:45:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I also believe the game is fine how it is today. However, for every Philly/Washington type game, there is a New Jersey/Minnesota type game where two teams play puck posession and trap. As a hockey fan, that even get's boring to me after a while.
I'm not saying change everything, but the idea of a 2 minute PP regardless of the offensive team scoring is something I could live with a lot more than a penalty shot choice in the last 5 minutes or making the nets bigger.
When it comes to the game changing ideas, it's one of the better one's.
for a guy that talks alot about boring hockey how can you call yourself an Oilers fan, man, they are so old school same thing day in day out, you don't call that boring?????????????
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
We'll it's again obvious that you are speaking about things you do not know. Firstly, Quinn has done wonders in changing the system in Edmonton. Their 2 games against Calgary were some of the best hockey I have watched the Oilers play in maybe the past decade. Secondly, I have said on here that if I wasn't a fan of the Oilers, I would not watch them because they did play a boring brand of hockey.
Secondly, I don't disagree with getting fans down to game level would help Hockey. But does that happen in Football?? Baseball??? Basketball??? Hockey and Basketball are played in the same arena's in many cases. We all know what the nosebleeds are like!
The issue with hockey and Americans is plentyful, the big one is the flow of the game. Consider this, every other popular US sport has TONS of stoppages. The NHL spends as much time playing as they do in huddles, etc. Baseball has a 10-15 second gap(at least) between pitches. Basketball often has foul called on every posession or at least every 2 posessions. What about hockey??? No stoppages. Let's look at another sport that is literally the most popular global sport but is near the bottom of the list in the US. Soccer is another sport that has little to no stopages in the game.
Also, hockey is a sport that one needs to LEARN to enjoy. It's not like Baseball for example, that one can really learn in about one inning. There are often time (regardless of if you admit it or not) where you can not see the puck, but you know where it it based on knowing the game. Every other sport, you never lose site of the object ball. Even in baseball, you can see the 100 mph ball on the screen. You often can not see the 100 mph slapshot until the goalie reacts. Don't lie to youself, you can't see the puck on those shots, you see the goalie.
So that's it in my opinion. Based on that opinion, America never will completely embrace the sport, mostly based on the lack of stoppages. The social aspect of going to a sporting event is too important in the States and the lack of stoppages will always hurt the NHL. And I don't agree that the average American fan has the IQ of a 10 year old child. That's a very arrogant view. I know many American's that are brillaint people. I also know many hockey fans that are as dumb as fence posts.
Because the common American sport fan is different, doesn't make them stupid. Even if you are not a football fan, go and spend a day with 73,000 Packer's Fans in Lambeau Field and come back and try to say something bad about them. I bet you can't.
They smell like cheese. |
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Pat Lafontaines Power Play Ideas 
