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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
 Posted - 10/16/2009 : 11:35:20
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One thing that cannot be argued is that the respect for individual players has gone way downhill since the league started getting tougher on fighting. There is way more highsticking and other stickwork going on, that didn't happen as regularly back in the day. The instigator rule has made it worse.
I agree that the BS fights that happen after a good hard clean hit are garbage, But the stickwork fouls that go unnoticed by the refs would be otherwise addressed. And that alone fosteres respect, because the offender knows that there will be a toll to pay. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 18:21:19
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Sorry . . . you lost me at "the league has got tougher on fighting".
Nnnnnnnnnnhhhh . . . . . WRONG!
Fighting is nearing all-time highs again, actually. The fights where players square off like boxers after the drop of a puck? That's all I've seen lately! (saw one again tonight in Jersey) I find the mutually agreed fight totally outside of and independent of the course of play has gone out of control . . . it's a ridiculous clown show, slows down the game, and has nothing to do with hockey.
Respect for players has gone down, yes . . . but fighting has gone up.
Try again.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 18:41:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
But if you ARE going to defend fighting, let's hear your well thought out argument, and tell me why Boogard, why Belak, why Colton Orr should be in the league? And while you're at it, when you bring up the policing argument, and explain how fighting somehow 'polices' dirty plays . . . send us the videos of all the clean plays these guys have made as well. You know, how they make clean checks, never jab a stick in the ribs, never high stick, never cross check from behind, never make a play to injure.
Slozo.... i've stated i don't really have a problem with fighting and believe it should be part of the game. However, if you read above, i also stated early in this thread that i don't care for the Booegards, Laraques, etc. Maybe they really don't help police the dirty players? How is it possible to prove that other than to hear it from players, media, former players, coaches, etc? I guess taking fighting out of hockey would prove it one way or another, unfortunately for us here at pickuphockey, i'm not running the league (although i'd prob do a better job than the  who is?) ?
Aside from the "policing" aspect, i guess i'm just a hockey purist. One who doesn't like to see drastic changes. I don't wanna see the nets get larger. I don't want ot in the playoffs to go 4 on 4, then 3 on 3, etc. I don't want major changes, simple as that. Fighting has been around since i began watching hockey at an early age and i'd hate to see it gone, simple as that. I do however prefer to see the guys fighting who play more than 3 mins and 6 shifts a game. I find it hard to beleive there's not more guys out there capable of playing 12-14 mins a game, contributing more than 5 goals and 11 points a year, maybe killing some penalties, and dropping the gloves when needed.
I will say this, it'd be interesting to see if ANY of the "goons" out there would be able to stick in the NHL if fighting were taken out completely...
100% agree and thats what I have maintained throughout this topic. I am not arguing that most fights are not crap for crap reasons. I'm saying there is a right time for a fight in a game. Taking it away will lessen this game I love so much. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 08:20:57
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Nah, Joshua, I completely disagree. The best hockey around is NHL playoffs, World Juniors, the World Championships, and the Olympics.
Those compentitions rarely see fights at all.
The worst hockey to watch is NHL preseason.
That is where fighting happens more than anywhere else.
Reducing (you will never completely remove) fighting from the sport will have a positive effect on the game. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 11:03:04
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How can you say you completely disagree when i have said I prefer a reduced amount of fighting, and disagree with the fighting for no reason what so ever. You are saying you disagree with every fight that happens at any hockey game ever?
You say Playoff hockey is the greatest because of no fighting. Dont fights happen in the playoffs?
Olympic hockey is the worst until the Medal rounds. And Olympic and world championship games either professional or Junior are only watchable if your team is in contention. 75% of the games in the world tournaments are crap games.
I'm not totally disagreeing with your point of view but dont think you are seeing all perspectives. Besides we are arguing your point of view. Not all hockey fans think fighting is crap and enjoy even the scripted fights for no reason. All of hockey shouldn't change just so you and only you can enjoy a game. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 14:17:55
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Josua, we are not arguing the same point. Your exact words were " Taking it away will lessen this game I love so much." That is not my arguement at all and we are not arguing the same point.
And I would not be the only person to enjoy an improved game on the ice, with more speed, more skill, more excitement. Less goons like Brashear and Boogaard. You keep that NHL. You keep enjoying that garbage. I'll take the like of the Blackhawks and Red Wings among other teams without a true 'goon' in the line up.
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 16:50:12
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I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating something said earlier, but I wonder what would happen if there were a 20 minute penalty for fighting. In other words, make the penalty such that guys would (hopefully) think a bit more before dropping the gloves, but leave the option open to them.
The message would be "If you want to fight for this reason or that, fight, but know that with that decision you will not be available to your team for a third of the game."
What gets me is the incongruity of a 5 minute penalty. Even the most hawkish of hockey fans has to acknowledge that, when you sit back and think about it from a distance, it's a bit, well, funny actually. Forget hockey and the history of hockey and just think about the idea of two guys pounding each other's faces for a second, and five minutes later they are back playing. It's kind of wacky.
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leaf4life
Top Prospect
1 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 17:52:02
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| When it's a staged fight between Brashear and Laraque, who cares,does nothing for the game, when guys like Iginla and Lacavalier are going toe to toe in the finals,who can argue with that |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 17:58:43
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No way, you have to have fighting in the game. Leave it the way it is, if you don't want to see fighting watch the KHL. The NHL is the most exciting league in the world, when there is a fight do you see one fan at the game say "Omg that is horrible, these players take the spot of a talented player that could score a goal for us".. NO.. everyone is freaking out like its Ali vs Frazier, the crowd gets into it and the players as well.
Also, fighting generates momentum. Gets the boys fired up, the crowd its not just about policing. There is so much more to fighting than people think. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 18:24:38
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I don't mind fighting in the game, when there is REAL reasoning behind it. Not a fight for the sake of a fight. IF I wanted to see that, i'd go the local pub and just do it myself.
But I do believe if you want to limit it down a lot, while leaving it in the game. You have only two options:
Fighting = Removed from the rest of the game (If fight occurs during periods 1, 2, or with more than 10 minutes remaining in 3rd.)
If the fight occurs with less than 10 minutes to go (excluding OT), you will not be eligable to play your teams next game.
I believe THIS, will make players think before dropping the mitts. Even the "Goons".
Irvine |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 20:30:44
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THis is where people are taking things way, way out of context. One can never completely remove fighting from any sport. There are fights in all sports. However, hockey is the only non-combat sport with such weak rules for fighting.
Will there ever be a way to completely remove fighting from hockey?? Nope. Will the game change dramatically for the worse if a suggestion such as Irvine's was established?? Nope. It would make people think about fighting and it would also render pure fighters obsolete.
That does nothing to lessen the game. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2009 : 09:58:13
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Irvine - your situation of a "real fight for a real reason" would still happen, even with a one game suspension obviously, and, even with my proposed 5 game suspension. Now those would be REAL fights . . . for some potentially very good reasons.
The problem with hockey is the culture of fighting, and the support it gets from a very grassroots level. You don't see that in other very physical sports like football, for instance. I partially blame Canada's hockey roots in lacrosse, probably one of the most violent games there ever was back in the day. But, whatever the reason, it's a culture of thought that has to be changed if hockey wants to totally clear itself of bush league status and improve the quality of the game.
And this brings me to the "don't change the game" argument . . . which I don't think you want to argue too much. Maybe if wants to argue this point, you might phrase it, "Don't change the rules that aren't working to enforce illegal plays in the game". Because, essentially, that is what fighting is - an ILLEGAL PLAY IN HOCKEY. So, if you support something that is already penalised and not officially permitted in the game, then you should almost be arguing that it not be penalised any more.
If penalties for fighting are not working, then the penalties should be increased - just like the suspensions for head shots have slowly increased, for instance. So, you either support the present rules (fighting is illegal, and is penalised so that it doesn't happen very often or at all) or you want to change them (fighting is permitted, no penalty for fighting at all). How exciting do you want the game of hockey to get, fight fans? If you really like fighting that much, why not make it legal? You get more of your "exciting fights" then . . .
Increasing the penalty for fighting is not "changing the game" . . . it's tightening the rules ALREADY IN PLACE. Changing the game would be saying no goal with a foot in the crease . . . saying no two line pass . . . or changing the game from only forward passing allowed to what it is today (look it up in hockey rule history).
I don't want to change the game. I want hockey to quit the retarded double standard of both penalising fighting, yet condoning it and encouraging it.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2009 : 19:03:11
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Hey Slozo, the reason the clampdown you recommend will not ever happen, is outside of a few fanatical fans, fighting is condowned league wide and that is why the rule have never been introduced. Condowned may be a strong word but it is accepted as a nessesary evil. Some of the most popular players on a team are the enforcers. You cannot remove it for your own purposes because it offends your delicate sense of right and wrong. Hockey is the longest lasting most physically punishing sport. By that I mean a play can go consecutive minutes at a time, unlike the majority of sports and during the plays players get heated. Fights will happen no matter the rule changes because of the nature of the game.
What everyone is objecting to is the gimmicky crap fights because 2 player have decided to put on a show. Crap fighting should be abolished, but to do that you have to have GM's and coaches league wide, all make an effort to restrict enforcers or whomever from random encounters. A fight for a good reason, right or wrong, is part of the game of hockey |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2009 : 21:03:08
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Alright Joshua, I will play along for a minute.Answer me this.
What is a good fight???
Tell me what absolute positives come from a 'good fight'?
(I don't mean maybe your team gets fired up, maybe the momentum swings. No maybes. Definate)
How can you abolish 'bad fights' without significantly reducing all fights???
I'm all ears.
As a personal thing, I would appreciate if you could stop these comments towards both myself and others such as You cannot remove it for your own purposes because it offends your delicate sense of right and wrong as this is not even close to what anyone is saying. Speaking purely for myself, I am a HUGE fan of combat sports. MMA, boxing, pure matial arts. Anything where guys kick the crap out of each other in a controlled environment is wicked awesome. My dislike of fighting in hockey has ZERO to do with my sensitivity or so I can enjoy the game more personally and everyone else would like hockey less.
In non-combat sport, fighting has zero positive impact to the players involved, their respective teams, or the sport itself. It doesn't matter if it's hockey or any other sport.
Again, fighting will never be completely removed from any sport, but it can be significantly reduced. If it is reduced, it will take nothing away from the current sport.
If one want to watch fighting that badly, watch MMA. It's far higher quality and one can find it somewhere on TV 24 hours a day.
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 05:24:34
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In principle I agree with Irvine's suggested rule (game misconduct for fighting or 1 game suspension if less than 10 minutes to go).
But what worries me a bit about it, and even more so about Slozo's 5 game suspension idea, is that a strategy might develop where a not so talented goon on one team tries to goad a talented tough guy on another team (such as Iginla) into a fight, and succeeds. Even if the Flames win that particular game, the other team might "win by losing" by having Iginla sit for the next game, or with Slozo's rule, five games, which could have a drastic effect on the standings.
I wonder if it's necessary to go that far, right away anyway (can impliment not quite as long penalties at first and wait and see how it goes for instance - if necessary, increase the penalties a few years from now). More importantly, practically speaking, I wonder if the "anti-fighting" gang wouldn't be doing more for their cause by considering some more realistic solutions, because like it or not, fighting is engrained into the culture of hockey players, fans coaches... With that in mind, my guess is that the chances of a 5 game suspension rule coming into effect, in the foreseeable future anyway, are about the same as my chances of scoring with Beyonce.
It ain't happening boys.
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 06:22:28
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JoshuaCanada - argue the point. This will be the last time I direct an answer at you, as you seem to like REPEATING YOURSELF WHILE NOT LISTENING! Please, argue the actual points Beans and I make here, instead of imagining othe arguments. I'll take the time to get each point you make with my rebuttal:
quote:
Hey Slozo, the reason the clampdown you recommend will not ever happen, is outside of a few fanatical fans, fighting is condowned league wide and that is why the rule have never been introduced. Condowned may be a strong word but it is accepted as a nessesary evil. Some of the most popular players on a team are the enforcers. You cannot remove it for your own purposes because it offends your delicate sense of right and wrong.
I never suggested the odds of what I propose happening - again, you are arguing a point I never made. I also think the chances are slim to none for a dramatic rule change like I propose.
However, hockey fans who want tougher penalties on fighting are most definitely NOT relegated to a 'few fanatical fans' (the word fan is already short for fanatic, btw). More people in Canada support fighting than don't, yes; but do some research before you make statements like this. I have done research on this, and depending on the survey, it's usually between 15-33% of hockey fans who would like to see much tougher penalties for fighting. But, as I have always contended, this one factor (fan support) is the main reason why fighting is condoned today.
And, you state that fighting is condoned league-wide (correct, I have stated this numerous times), then say "that is why the rule was never introduced". What rule? The rule that . . . fighting is illegal? That rule has always been in place, and you get a penalty for it. Just not a very big one. In fact, a ridiculous one compared to other sports.
"Some of the most popular players are enforcers". Um, ok. So? Some of the funniest people are clowns. What's your point . . . we should continue to give marginal penalties to illegal plays and allow sometimes criminal behaviour because of a few tough guys being popular? Hunh?
"You cannot remove it for your own purposes because it offends your delicate sense of right and wrong"
NOBODY. SAID. REMOVE. IT.
Neither I, nor Beans, have ever stated that we want fighting removed entirely . . . because we know that it would still happen. In the sports where it is penalised the harshest, it still happens occasionally (football, soccer).
Remove for my own purposes? Delicate?
Try a rational argument, please.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 06:53:00
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Andyhack: Well, finally! An actual reasoned argument to continue to condone fighting.
You make several points, I'll try to address each.
quote:
But what worries me a bit about it, and even more so about Slozo's 5 game suspension idea, is that a strategy might develop where a not so talented goon on one team tries to goad a talented tough guy on another team (such as Iginla) into a fight, and succeeds. Even if the Flames win that particular game, the other team might "win by losing" by having Iginla sit for the next game, or with Slozo's rule, five games, which could have a drastic effect on the standings.
So - you think that a clear fight instigation where a semi-goon tries to fight a star player . . . wouldn't be penalised appropriately? Or more importantly, aren't there already rules in place for instigation? If the other team lost that game, that would already be counterproductive - every game means precious points. Having a drastic effect on the standings . . . by helping out other teams as well, taking out their star player? This doesn't really make sense, as every other team also fighting to get in the playoffs benefits if Iginla is out due to fighting.
And, let's examine the playoffs where the rule is stiffer - have we seen many attempts for semi-goons trying to instigate star players into fighting? Of course! It happens almost every game in the regular season too . . . but most star players grow wiser, and just like Iginla, tend to fight less and less as their careers wear on. It's counterproductive, and hurts the team - and with stiffer penalties, eventually these total goons would disappear anyways. With no accountability right now - offsetting 5 minute majors being the norm - goons are given a big thumbs up.
A smart player turns the other cheek and scores on the powerplay.
quote:
I wonder if it's necessary to go that far, right away anyway (can impliment not quite as long penalties at first and wait and see how it goes for instance - if necessary, increase the penalties a few years from now). More importantly, practically speaking, I wonder if the "anti-fighting" gang wouldn't be doing more for their cause by considering some more realistic solutions, because like it or not, fighting is engrained into the culture of hockey players, fans coaches...
Did I ever suggest that my 5 game suspension idea be implemented right away? No. I gave it as my suggestion for how things should be if fighting is to be appropriately penalised. I also agree that fighting for the public is, in general, pretty popular, and it would take several incremental steps to reach my "dream".
Before achieving any goal, you must set a goal - then take one step at a time. I believe we agree with each other on this point.
I'd start with a one game suspension for fighting, and move on from there.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 19:24:41
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Slozo, no offense but I did have points and I did offer suggestions and I dont totally disagree with your stance. 10-20 years ago we would not be having this conversation. I remember when people could enjoy violence without having right or wrong thrown in there face. And again I enjoy a hockey fight. Is fighting in hockey wrong that is the question (fighting, or not?)
I did say if you want to remove crap fights you have to start it at the coaching and GM level. You have to have them stop signing the enforcers. Stop sending them out for a useless fight. The coach IMO turns to the enforcer and says listen this is what I want you to do. See that other enforcer guy over there why dont you go pick a fight. I mean if the coach doesnt want him to fight why does he send him out to play. The coach knows the enforcers role as well as the enforcer does, so it has to start there. A coach has to get fined or the GM has to get fined for crap fighting to go away. Do you think Quinn wants to pay for a fight he didn't encourage.
BTW if you look at my responses, I was responding to yours and Beans points. If you want I will draw the lines from points to responses. I just disagree with your point of view, it happens. BTW fighting in hockey is not illegal unless it results in a premeditated injury like (Hey Bert why dont you Ram That Colorado Players Head into the Ice) Fighting is a penalized infraction not an illegal play. Thats why they have the instigator rule to penalize "hopefully" the team which started the fight. It give the team, which did not start a fight, the chance to score a goal which is the point of hockey.
I also dont agree that a single fighting infraction should give a 5 game or even 2 game disadvantage to a team. Being throw out of a game is fine to me. A player getting a game miscondict for a fight is not. It would get rid of most fights in the league, but I dont want all the fights, or the majority of the fights to go away and most hockey fans by your admission agree with me. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 19:51:42
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Very simple: if fighting is not an illegal play in hockey, why do they have to sit for two or five minutes in that box, all by themselves, away from their buddies?
Part of the "non-logic" stance taken up by the pro-fighting crowd is the very ignorance of the very rules of the game that they supposedly cherish and want to preserve. The pro-fighting crowd wants to continue the extremely soft punishments for an illegal play because they find fighting entertaining.
btw, I enjoy watching professional sports that can be categorised as fighting - MMA, boxing, wrestling, martial arts - in fact I partook in some myself back in the day (the last two). But hockey is hockey - a game played on the ice with sticks and a puck - not fighting.
Let's punish the crime appropriately, for everyone's safety and enjoyment.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 20:06:58
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Fighting on the street is against the law without a permit hence it is illegal. Fighting on the ice without the intent to injure is not against the law, hence it is not illegal. It is against the rules and rules are in place to deter it, but it is not illegal, it is a penalized infraction. Its almost like you have a permit to fight in a hockey game as long as you dont intend to injure.
I cannot cite a law that states hockey fighting is legal, but I cannot cite a law which says fighting in hockey is illegal either. I have never seen a hockey player being dragged away in cuffs yet for fighting.
Or are you saying that Gordie Howe and Ron Hextall are criminals? Is it illegal? Are our heroes are criminals? |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 10/20/2009 20:14:17 |
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 20:33:52
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The context of legal and illegal in all these posts until yours, Joshua, was with regards to the rules of the game. Fighting is illegal in hockey, in that it is against the laws of the game. Your posts tend to be infantile and rarely seem to be about the topic on hand, rather, you nitpick posts and attack personally. Both these are signs of someone that can't formulate a strong argument and does not know how to convey their point of view. If you can't argue the point at hand, don't argue at all.
I agree that harsher penalties for fighting should be introduced and that it might actually improve the quality of hockey, or, atleast, the skill level of a team's tough guy. There is so much that is wrong with fighting in the NHL today. The punching when a guy is down, the take down I have particular troubles with. We are not watching MMA or wrestling here, and at some point a take down is gonna result in a serious injury. I think that there should be stiffer penalties for punching a downed opponent and penalties added to a player that uses a MMA move(the takedown) on the ice. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 22:33:41
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| Ok the NHL cannot make a law. If you disagree you are an idiot. They can make a rule but not a law. I write my responses after much thought and try to keep them within the point of hand. If you dont agree with an opinion it does not mean I cannot share it. That is why we debate. Infantile, I dont know what to say about that. I think most of my post are constructive. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 23:01:54
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Maybe I missed something, but I don't know where anyone said anything about fighting in hockey and the laws of society. The NHL can't make laws, but they can make rules for their sport. There is a rule against fighting and it results in a penalty.
Here is a little something I found. The acceptance of fighting in the game is a purely North American thing:
Fighting is prohibited in Olympic ice hockey and in European professional hockey leagues.The international rules (by IIHF) specify in the rule 528 – Fisticuffs or Roughing the following penalties (among others):
Match penalty (the player is ejected from the game and another player serves 5 minutes on the penalty bench) for a player who starts fisticuffs.
Minor penalty (2 minutes) for a player who retaliates with a blow or attempted blow.
Game misconduct penalty (ejection from the game) in addition to any other penalties for any player who is the first to intervene in a fight which is already in progress.
Double minor penalty (4 minutes), major penalty + game misconduct penalty (5 minutes and ejection from the game), or match penalty (at the discretion of the referee) for a player who continues the fighting after being told by the referee or a linesman to stop.
Misconduct penalty (cannot play for 10 minutes; the second misconduct penalty in one game means automatic ejection) for a player who intentionally takes off his gloves in a fight.
Every combination has the player being kicked out of the game. Again, this takes nothing away from the games in any international competition.
Here's is the most interesting question I have found regarding Fighting in the NHL:
What it is about North American professional ice hockey players — unique to major professional team sport — that renders them incapable of controlling themselves on the ice without fighting???
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 00:10:10
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I was distiguising between Law Breaking and Rule Breaking. One is against the law and is a crime or illegal, the other is against the rules but is not a crime or illegal. It is an infraction of the rules. Slozo used the word illegal and crime in his post and redneck76ca also used illegal and law in his post.
Dont you think infantile is a personal attack?
Your arguement that a take down could cause a serious injury was plausible until I realized I dont think I every seen an injury as a result of a takedown. If I have I dont think it was pointed out. I dont like MMA because a person is hit while on the ground. I find that ungentlemanly and against all the rules of honour I was taught as a child. You never hit a man while he's down. A gentleman can fight for honour but does not goon people because he is tougher.
If the team was resposible for the players they allowed on the ice and Coaches faced the penalty in the pocket book, they would weed out the unskilled goons who detract from an otherwise suburb game. So get rid of the goons, but allow the skill players to police the game as it has been done for almost a century. A game misconduct seems ok but multiple game infractions seems excessive.
This is the last time I am posting with regards to this topic. |
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bounty2k3
Top Prospect
Canada
33 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 10:13:43
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I believe, and I know I'll probably get corrected on this but what the hell, the so-called "goons" in the league serve a purpose. Dirty hits and fighting go hand in hand. I see my star player hit from behind I'm gonna do something about it because obviously the league isn't doing anything.
I do not however agree with face-off fights.
For example:
"Hey, you wanna fight?"
"Sure"
Puck drops and they go at it.
Both players in that instance should be getting ejected for that game. It's just stupid and pointless.
The league isn't handing out suspensions to players who hit people dirty. It's up to the goons to get them and now everyone wants them out of the game? Do you not think that the amount of dirty plays will increase? These dirty player's are getting away with it and they know it. It's why they continue to happen. Until the dirty players are getting dealt with, this level of fighting will continue.
I can already feel a rebuttal coming. I'm interested in knowing who else see's that the amount of dirty plays has increased the fighting in the last couple of years. Until these dirty plays starting coming to light and scrutinized as of late there was no talk about taking fighting out of the game. The league needs to step in.
GO HAWKS GO!!! |
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fighting, or not? 
