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umteman
PickupHockey Pro
USA
662 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2009 : 18:14:33
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I've got an addendum to this one. If you where starting a new franchise in what city would you place it and why? Many of you may favor Winnipeg but keep in mind the arena they built there is only 15,000 seats. I might say how about Seattle or maybe Sacremanto?
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
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Edited by - umteman on 10/16/2009 17:34:41
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umteman
PickupHockey Pro
USA
662 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 18:23:01
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oops.I meant to put this under irvine's thread "starting your franchise" but clicked new topic instead of reply to topic.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?" |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 00:10:10
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I suggest editing the title, you'll get some good comments if you fix up the question- it's an interesting topic.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 18:22:14
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| It was discussed in another thread prior that the Winnipeg arena currently seats 15000 people but was designed to seat 18000-18500 if they changed designated areas of the arena. Currently no reason to make upgrades as 15000 seating is adequate for the Moose. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 18:25:18
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| If your asking where else I say Quebec (Im assuming Quebec City) as is being proposed currently. They want to build the Meca of all arenas to attract the NHL. I also heard they are considering NE of Toronto in a suburb. Further away from Buffalo market and close enough to be considered a second Toronto team. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 08:27:06
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My opinion, in order of where I think they would do the best and serve the fan base the best.
1. Winnipeg
2. Quebec City
3. Kansas City
4. Seattle/Portland
5. The GTA (as far away from Buffalo as possible) |
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flyguy531
Top Prospect
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 10:45:55
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Seattle
Green Bay
Cincinatti
Winnipeg
Toronto (a REAL team) ;)
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 11:57:59
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Regina :)
Winnipeg
Halifax
Hamilton
If I had to go US:
Seattle
Las Vegas!
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 12:04:24
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A hockey team in green bay would be awesome, not sure how practical it is though. More than 2/3rds of the city attend each Packers home game....
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Mikey Boy
Rookie
Canada
103 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 15:00:54
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Seattle or sacremanto! are you on crack! Seattle is way to close to Vancouver. And sacremanto...hello! thats just asking for trouble.
The only place for a new franchise in Winnipeg or Quebec city. 15,000 fans every night, + good marketing, and profit sharing with a salary cap...no problem!
MP |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 18:31:55
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Tillsonburg or London Ontario, kinda small but would still bring in more fans than Phoenix or the New York Islanders
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
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M-y-K-E-A-l
Top Prospect
Canada
16 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 00:00:46
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I live in Winnipeg so I will say WPG. I go to alot of Moose games and alot of the time there is a close to full house. And this is just AHL, in the new NHL i think that Winnipeg would be a great place for a NHL Team
GO JETS GO |
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bounty2k3
Top Prospect
Canada
33 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 12:18:11
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I believe Winnipeg deserves to have a team back there. But I would put a team in Kitchener, Ontario. A great hockey town and is far enough from Toronto and Buffalo that it shouldn't be a problem. People from Toronto that want to see a game could be there in 45 minutes or less (Well that's probably just my way of driving lol). So my list of the top 3 cities deserving of a team would be:
1) Kitchener
2) Winnipeg
3) Quebec City
Canada wants a 7th team here and we could support it better than any other American city could. They've tried a lot of different markets already. How many more cities is Bettman gonna try before realizing he's a failure?
GO HAWKS GO!!! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 13:03:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikey Boy
Seattle or sacremanto! are you on crack! Seattle is way to close to Vancouver. And sacremanto...hello! thats just asking for trouble.
The only place for a new franchise in Winnipeg or Quebec city. 15,000 fans every night, + good marketing, and profit sharing with a salary cap...no problem!
MP
How close is Seattle to Vancouver? I dont see the problem here. Rivalries grow from close competition. There are certainly enough people on the Western seaboard, South of Vancouver, who dont have a close team to cheer for in the states. You either have Vancouver or the California teams. There is room for a team, but is there a big enough fan base to pack a 18000-20000 seat arena? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 18:27:00
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If you put a team between Toronto and Buffalo (geographically) then Buffalo will be defunct in a matter of a few years. It is not a positive move for the NHL to add one team simply to lose another. I know this is what the fans in the GTA want, but it's not a good move.
Regardless of what sport or business it is, when a market gets saturated (especially when not all business are being supported) it's not a good decision.
For the NHL to effectively expand, a location without competition is important to ensure roots of a fan base and more importantly corporate money can develop. |
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Guest9203
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Posted - 10/23/2009 : 08:26:40
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Bettman should stop trying to put dumb franchises in the southern states.Nobody`s gonna come to the games anywase.BETTMAN YOU ARE A FAILURE. why don`t you look into canada or The northeastern states
1. winnipeg
2. Quebec city
3.Green bay
4.and an other team close to toronto e.g. Kitchener
Go Canucks Go |
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Mikey Boy
Rookie
Canada
103 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 20:41:32
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OK, Josh...how about winnipeg's closest teams are Edmonton Alberta and Ottawa, Ontario. In central Canada where we live, eat and breath hockey, where players like Gordie Howe, Theo Fleury, John Toews, Mike Richards, The Staal Bros. were born. figure out the distance between those two cities then we can talk.
I am from the "PEG". I went to all those save the jets rally's. The city is ready for hockey again.
With surrounding ares like Brandon (pop.- 50,000ish), Sekirik ( pop. 25000ish), Kenora (60,000ish) + Winnipeg ( 700,000ish), north Dakota just south,all within 2 hours. I don't see a problem here.
MP |
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Kirby
Top Prospect
Canada
66 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 22:14:43
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I think a good place would be Regina. Saskatchewan has by far the greatest fans in the cfl, and should be able to adequatley support an nhl franchise
I skate where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.-Wayne Gretzky |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2009 : 08:43:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikey Boy
OK, Josh...how about winnipeg's closest teams are Edmonton Alberta and Ottawa, Ontario. In central Canada where we live, eat and breath hockey, where players like Gordie Howe, Theo Fleury, John Toews, Mike Richards, The Staal Bros. were born. figure out the distance between those two cities then we can talk.
I am from the "PEG". I went to all those save the jets rally's. The city is ready for hockey again.
With surrounding ares like Brandon (pop.- 50,000ish), Sekirik ( pop. 25000ish), Kenora (60,000ish) + Winnipeg ( 700,000ish), north Dakota just south,all within 2 hours. I don't see a problem here.
MP
Trust me Mikey Boy I am a long time return the Jet fan. If you read thru the Basillie post that we had going during the summer you will see I prefered a team in Winnipeg to a team in Hamiliton. Definitly more unserved than Ontario. I would support a team in Sask before another in Quebec/Ontario. Unfortunalty Quebec/Ontarios got the numbers, which means they will get 1st consideration. |
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Guest1758
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Posted - 10/24/2009 : 16:14:52
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| REGINA!!!!!!!!!!! |
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umteman
PickupHockey Pro
USA
662 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2009 : 16:58:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
A hockey team in green bay would be awesome, not sure how practical it is though. More than 2/3rds of the city attend each Packers home game....
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Yeah, the population of Green Bay is only about 70,000 or so, and I don't think there is even an arena there. I thought about nearby Milwaukee as the Admirals play in an NHL sized arena and have among the best attendence in the AHL so there is already an established fan base. I also think a team in Baltimore could succeed as there is already an intense rivalry with DC, and trust me there are no Caps fans in Baltimore, lol.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?" |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2009 : 22:58:14
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I am going to say Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.
Halifax is the largest City East of Montreal and North of Boston. It has an estimated 360,000 population (not counting surrounding areas.)
Nova Scotia and the Maritimes/Atlantic Canada in general majority hockey fans. I can see Halifax being able to support an NHL franchise.
Halifax is surrounded by plenty of other communities, with easy access to the heart of Halifax at a reasonable transit time to get there.
I would estimate around 600K in and around Halifax in total, who could potentially build a fan base that would vie to attend these games on a nightly basis. Not to mention, Halifax has a growing economy for the most part.
Halifax would require a new arena, as the Halifax Metro Center currently only holds a 10,100 people for hockey events.
I for one, would love to see a franchise come to Atlantic Canada. Sadly, it won't ever be in my province of New Brunswick. But I'd travel a couple times a year for a Saturday game in Halifax. :)
Irvine |
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Guest6358
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Posted - 10/27/2009 : 23:17:18
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
quote:
Originally posted by Mikey Boy
Seattle or sacremanto! are you on crack! Seattle is way to close to Vancouver. And sacremanto...hello! thats just asking for trouble.
The only place for a new franchise in Winnipeg or Quebec city. 15,000 fans every night, + good marketing, and profit sharing with a salary cap...no problem!
MP
How close is Seattle to Vancouver? I dont see the problem here. Rivalries grow from close competition. There are certainly enough people on the Western seaboard, South of Vancouver, who dont have a close team to cheer for in the states. You either have Vancouver or the California teams. There is room for a team, but is there a big enough fan base to pack a 18000-20000 seat arena?
I live in Vancouver, and frequently travel to Seattle. It's about a two hour drive, depending on the boarder waits. I think the distance is perfect! You'd get people coming down from Van, up from Seattle, the rivalry would be great! However, I don't think Seattle could support a team. Vancouver packs GM Place every night, and Seattle is about the same size. But Seattle has their beloved Mariners AND the Seahawks. Quest Field packs in 67,000 people per game, the Mariners average around 15,000-20,000 (way more if Boston or New York comes to town), I don't think the Seattle population would fill a 20,000 seat arena for a team. Look at the populations of successful ticket sale cities. Even huge cities like New York can't pack an arena (the Islanders, not Rangers), what would make Seattle fans leave baseball and football (way bigger in the states than hockey, unfortunately) to go watch an expansion team?
Keep it north of the boarder, where the markets are. |
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Guest0965
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Posted - 10/28/2009 : 00:33:34
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Winnepeg (IF they build a New arena)
Seattle/Portland
Quebec City
Halifax |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 05:25:17
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I agree Beans - no need to kill Buffalo to get another team in southern Ontario, and if I had to choose, I wouldn't go with Hamilton myself.
In order, the cities I would move my new NHL franchises to, if the cities of Nashville, Atlanta, Sunrise (north Miami), Columbus and yes, Phoenix, fail:
1. Barrie
2. Winnipeg
3. Halifax
4. Kitchener
5. Quebec City
All of those cities would have higher revenues and more fan support than the current franchises.
I thought long and hard about southern Ontario, and if I was NHL commissioner, I'd want to keep a healthy Buffalo in the league, and for that, you still need Canadians going there (although the stricter border crossing has made a dent in attendance already, couped with the bad economy). I think this is a case where we can have our cake and eat it too, and I address the biggest untapped hockey market that no one talks about: northern Ontario. Yes, Barrie is still in southern Ontario, it's not North Bay or Sudbury . . . but trust me, people would drive the three hours to come see an NHL franchise in Barrie. You'd have loads of buses for this in place, and the people would come . . . they are absolutely crazy for their hockey up there, more than anywhere else I know. And, Barrie is a large growing city, and obviously you'd have plenty of Torontonians going there as well. It's a licence to print money, I tell ya.
Winnipeg has already been talked about, so no need to go into detail - but with the cap system in place and the Canadian dollar high, there is no reason they can't be successful. Heck, look at it this way: they were more successful than Phoenix has been, in a system with no cap (which meant losing teams mostly) and with a ridiculously low Canadian dollar. AND, they have the corporate support, don't listen to sports talking heads saying otherwise, they haven't looked into it.
Halifax . . . I think it'd work. Largest city on the east coast, and they are also rabid about their hockey there. I think corporate support would be there . . . they'd be the only big ticket draw in town, so it'd be a natural for most companies. This is the riskiest one, considering the economy out there is bleak in places, but I really think it'd work.
I lived in Kitchener for a few yeas, and know it well - they would have a packed house every night, seriously. It's one of the fastest growing large cities in Canada, over half a million now, and the surrounding area is hockey mad. With three universities in the area, it's a young people's town, and frankly, easy to promote. London might be jealous of them, but in terms of geography, Kitchener is more strategic with Hamilton, Mississauga, and even London all being within easy reach, never mind Waterloo, Cambridge and Guelph.
And lastly, Q city. The population is there, and the only reason they moved last time was they couldn't find an owner there, and obviously Gary Bettman wouldn't have done something drastic like have the NHL buy the team so that they could give them a chance to succeed by . . . oh, wait, that sounds familiar, doesn't it? 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 07:54:33
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I think a team in Seattle would make for an awesome rivalry with Vancouver.
And a Maritime team would have a near instantaneous, rabid fanbase, in theory at least. The Nova Scotians I know are pretty tired of hearing about the Canadiens and nothing but Canadiens.
I don't think a southern US city needs a hockey team. Those franchises take forever to catch on and the most viable markets down there already have teams (Dallas, LA, Florida). Hell even some completly off the wall cities have teams, although I'd bet half the people in thier city couldn't tell you the name of the team (Nashville, Atlanta).
I want to see the NHL expand in a direction that actually makes sense. Would be the first time since the Nordiques moved to Colorado.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 13:56:12
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Nashville--------to----------NovaScotia
Tampa-----------to---------Quebec City
Atlanta------------to--------Regina-Saskatoon
Pheonix----------to---------Winnipeg
Carolina---------to---------Kitchener-Sudbury-Greater Toronto
Thats my quick fix recipe for the state of the game in the southern states. All citys come with rabid fans who have at some point asked, no demanded NHL representation. No loss in my opinion to the representation in Southern States as most are better suited for minor league teamsto build grass roots for the game. All the proposed cities have no competing professional teams for ticket sales except established minor league teams. The best part, these are the Regions where the best players come from. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 14:38:30
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I hate to be the jerko, but there are some things that people simply do not understand about an NHL franchise. Namely, there is a requirement for significantly more money to operate a team than is generated by fan/ticket revenue.
Let's do some quick math!
18000 seat stadium
$50/ticket average
$36,900,000 for 41 games sold out.
That is less than the lower level of the salary cap!!
So ticket revenues don't even cover players salaries. What about coaching, admin staff, equipment, travel, and the bevy of other costs involved in running a franchise???
The teams with the lowest revenue streams are sitting about $70 million a season. So a team needs to find more than double the revenue's they see from ticket sales to survive. The teams actually making money have revenue streams of $95-$160 million a season. 3-5 time the average ticket revenue.
And places such as Regina/Saskatoon?? First off, they are far enough apart that people from one city would not travel to the other city on a Saskatchewan highway in the winter. Secondly, the entire province of Saskatchewan has a lower population base than cities like Edmonton and Calgary who both went through hell in the past financially speaking.
There are even fewer people in Atlantic Canada.
There are maybe 3 markets in Canada that could support an NHL city through both Corporate money and a fan base. That is Quebec City (715,000 people), Winnipeg(700,000people ) and somewhere in the GTA(5+million).
No where else could sustain a team for any kind of time. As hard as it is for some people to admit, it would be about as good to add a team in New Mexico than in Atlantic Canada or Saskatchewan.
The biggest you will ever see is Make it 9 Canada. And even at that point, you're going into markets that have proven to be unsuccessful in the past.
Face it, the NHL NEEDS teams in the US to function.
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umteman
PickupHockey Pro
USA
662 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 18:40:00
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Well I think the NHL is one of few, or maybe the only pro sports league, in which television contracts do not make up the largest source of income. And anyway those deals are not specific to individual clubs - it is league revenue which is then distributed equally among the franchises. With that being equal around the league the survival of individual franchises does pretty much come down to gate, concessions, and yes corporate money.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?" |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 19:03:22
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quote:
Originally posted by umteman
Well I think the NHL is one of few, or maybe the only pro sports league, in which television contracts do not make up the largest source of income. And anyway those deals are not specific to individual clubs - it is league revenue which is then distributed equally among the franchises. With that being equal around the league the survival of individual franchises does pretty much come down to gate, concessions, and yes corporate money.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
I kind of agree with this, but another part that people forget is that the vast majority of the NHL teams are playing in arenas owned by someone other than the team. Most often, the City and/or another organization own the facility and they take a sizeable portion of concessions/parking/etc.
The example of this not being common is Toronto. MLSE owns the ACC, so they get every single dollar spent in the place. The Molson Family owns the Bell Centre in Montreal and Gillette agreed to the deal for the sale of the Canadiens to them as well.
However, places such as Edmonton and Calgary are playing in arena not owned by the team. That's a huge piece of revenue that the team doesn't get.
NHL teams need:
1)Corporate Money
2)Revenue Sharing
3) Merchandising
4) Ticket Sales
In that order. |
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umteman
PickupHockey Pro
USA
662 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2009 : 14:18:33
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"Let's do some quick math!
18000 seat stadium
$50/ticket average
$36,900,000 for 41 games sold out.
That is less than the lower level of the salary cap!!"
You've raised a good point here. Salaries have gotten out of hand. North America functions in a market economy in which renumeration is based upon economic value, as it needs to be; except when those who have suceeded in the market buy sports franchises at which point they lose all the business sense that made them a person who could buy a team. The majority of the teams are losing money: the market really doesn't warrant the salaries many players are making.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?" |
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Guest4052
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Posted - 10/30/2009 : 16:56:35
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I'm not sure about using 50 bucks for an average seat price would work in Canada. I'd suggest using the Leafs for a team in the GTA, the Habs for a team in Quebec City, and the Oilers/Flames for a team in Winnipeg.
Based on Gate revenues of a team in the GTA (using the leafs as a reference point), a team there should be able to fund the roster based on ticket sales. (I know its a point of reference, and I didn't factor the impact of the Leaf's brand etc.) So using the math, it would be about 80 dollar tickets to cover player salaries assuming the rink sells out every night.
The rink in Winnipeg has already in the architectual plans room to expand by 3-4 thousand.
However, I think the league has done its homework and crunched the numbers and concluded that there is a chance at more money to be made by going down south, and it would make sense as the NHL is in the business of selling hockey, and there isn't that much more money to be made selling in a mature market. I don't know where a franchise would go, KC is pretty close to St. Louis (4hr drive) in an experimental hockey market. Winnipeg or KC would be my bet for next franchise depending on how the league believes their US expansion experiment is going. I do strongly believe however, that there needs to be a fair amount of teams in the US or the NHL could very well turn into the CFL and that's not good for anybody. I do wonder if something is in the works for Europe 20 yrs. or so down the road... |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2009 : 23:43:58
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How do you get an "average" of $50 per ticket? I'm not sure what the cheapest seat here is in Vancouver but i can guarantee you the average is much higher than $50! Maybe i ought to move? 
It'd be interesting to see the low end and high end ticket price for all the arenas? I'm sure it's out there? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2009 : 08:50:13
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Here is a link to the average ticket prices by team as well as league average since 1994. You will see that the 09/10 average NHL ticket price is $51.41.
http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/index.php/site/comments/nhl_average_ticket_prices_since_1994_95/
Here is the list.
Here are the Canadian team. The first number is the average ticket price, the 2nd number is the difference between ticket revenues(based on 41 sell outs) and the teams salary cap
League Average $51.41 ($416,999,010)
Toronto $117.49 $40,677,470
Montreal $72.18 $6,630,400
Vancouver $62.05 ($7,371,608)
Minnesota $61.28 ($7,541,878)
Philadelphia $60.25 ($8,312,914)
Calgary $59.73 ($7,127,367)
Edmonton $59.71 ($12,879,110)
NY Rangers $58.57 ($12,627,249)
Pittsburgh $55.55 ($16,532,845)
Boston $54.94 ($16,293,570)
Ottawa $52.77 ($14,111,584)
NY Islanders $51.46 ($11,910,918)
Florida $48.76 ($15,750,812)
Atlanta $48.51 ($13,578,184)
Nashville $48.36 ($10,676,894)
New Jersey $48.05 ($17,726,215)
Columbus $47.66 ($13,584,101)
Los Angeles $47.20 ($8,570,518)
Chicago $46.80 ($17,194,400)
Detroit $46.60 ($18,421,446)
Washington $44.75 ($20,043,257)
Anaheim $43.50 ($25,192,864)
San Jose $43.07 ($25,537,954)
Colorado $40.62 ($22,622,924)
Carolina $38.38 ($17,609,135)
St. Louis $37.90 ($20,247,670)
Phoenix $37.45 ($21,521,145)
Buffalo $36.43 ($26,039,321)
Tampa Bay $35.76 ($22,058,729)
Dallas $35.66 ($31,820,379)
As you can see, only two teams in the league can support their salaries by ticket sales alone. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2009 : 12:15:32
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Beans, thanks for the list/info. Question though, regarding these numbers.....are these numbers if you purchase seasons tickets? I mean, are they a slighly lower number for buying the whole year or something? They seem low, at least the Canucks average does??? I know good lower bowl seats are over $130 here, club seats even more and from what i've been told and seen, upper bowl tickets are in the high 60's? I just did a search, not on ebay/craigslist, etc, but on ticket master and a ticket in the upper bowl, 2nd row from the top, in the corner, was $68.50.
I just don't see how these numbers can be accurate? You'd know the Edm ones i assume? If the avg is around $60, i'm guessing your upper's must be 25-30 bucks to bring the avg down from the amount i'm assuming they charge for lower good seats ($100+, no?)? Are there actually tickets that cheap??? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2009 : 16:53:15
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All you have to do is click the link I provided to see where I got my info from.
It states in there that the figured do not include premium seats and also the figures are in US dollars.
Not like it changes anything a bunch. The point I am making is that it takes way more than ticket sales to run a team.
Using the top dog as an example, Forbes listed that last season the Leafs had $190 million in revenues. If my numbers are anywhere close to accurate, the Leafs made $100 million off non-ticket revenue. That's huge.
As I said, this is to say it takes more than a fan base. It takes corporate money, TV revenues(even though not a big as other leagues) merch, and other revenue streams to run a hockey team. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 00:14:21
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Beans, i did check out the link, however very briefly. Not saying it's wrong, and i didn't realize the premium seats weren't included but even still, it seems off? I totally understand what you're saying about needing more than just a fan base selling out the games. I see that.
Now, i may be going off topic and perhaps should start a new thread but i still find those numbers to be difficult to understand. Unless all lower bowl seats are "premium", the numbers just don't work! Like i said, I looked up seats for an upcoming Canucks game in the upper bowl and they were just shy of $70? How can the average then be $62?
Tell me this, what's the cheapest ticket, face value to Rexall for an Oilers game? If their avg price is just shy of $60, you'd have to be getting uppers for $30? Can you? I know you can't here.... |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 01:47:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
All you have to do is click the link I provided to see where I got my info from.
It states in there that the figured do not include premium seats and also the figures are in US dollars.
Not like it changes anything a bunch. The point I am making is that it takes way more than ticket sales to run a team.
Using the top dog as an example, Forbes listed that last season the Leafs had $190 million in revenues. If my numbers are anywhere close to accurate, the Leafs made $100 million off non-ticket revenue. That's huge.
As I said, this is to say it takes more than a fan base. It takes corporate money, TV revenues(even though not a big as other leagues) merch, and other revenue streams to run a hockey team.
You would think it would be obvious to every one, that it requires more than just ticket sales to support an NHL franchise. Or any large business for that matter.
But even in a smaller area such as Halifax, you have large Corporate sponsors available, not to mention good size local tv stations like Global who carry the Super Bowl every year, etc.
To list a couple of very large local sponsors (who have and currently do, support hockey teams at this time -- AHL & QMJHL)
Irving Oil Limited (Largest Oil company in Canada)
Moosehead Breweries (Large beer brewery)
and many more local to the area, with plenty of money.
The fact is, when I posted my post about Halifax, I even stated it will never happen. I'd love to see it, but I do know it will never happen.
But I do believe a market like Halifax could find Corporate funding and do well with ticket sales. They would however, lack in other areas. Which is why I do not foresee it happening sadly.
Irvine |
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Guest2754
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Posted - 11/01/2009 : 03:55:58
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Even if everything else was in place and ready to go Halifax would still be 10 years away before our politicians could agree on building an 15,000 to 20,000 venue.
The maritimes would be better off trying to get the city of Moncton on board and drawing the fans from all three provinces.
They seem to know how to get things done. ex. all the concerts in recent years. I know i would make the 1.5 hour drive 10 times a year. |
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Guest8346
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Posted - 11/03/2009 : 04:39:03
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The average of price tickets seemed off a little for Montreal at first, however, after looking at the Habs website, the numbers look accurate. Here is the breakdown.
2009-10 Public prices
33 games
Platinum $201.00
Prestige $169.50
Red A $138.50
Red B $120.00
Red C $108.00
Red D $101.00
Club Desjardins A
First row $202.50
Club Desjardins A $183.50
Club Desjardins B First row $159.50
Club Desjardins B $144.00
White - First row $67.50
White $61.50
Grey $36.50
Blue $29.00
Molson Ex Zone $28.00
Saputo Family Zone
- Adult $29
- Child $10
Wheelchair $29.00
2009-10 Public prices
12 games (Optimum)
Platinum $261.50
Prestige $220.50
Red A $180.00
Red B $155.50
Red C $140.50
Red D $131.50
Club Desjardins A First row $263.00
Club Desjardins A $239.00
Club Desjardins B First row $207.00
Club Desjardins B $187.50
White - First row $87.50
White $80.00
Grey $47.50
Blue $38.00
Molson Ex Zone $36.50
Saputo Family Zone
- Adult $38
- Child $10
Wheelchair $38.00
However, buying tickets off the internet or street scalpers are easily double the value. For example, a MTL vs Pitts game in the higher Reds are worth around 300$ per ticket on ebay, scalpers around 700$.
Should be the same phenomena in other sell out crowd cities.
Also in MTL cant imagine beer, at 9,75$ a glass, isnt part of the revenu ( especialy considering the team is owned by Molson ). |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2009 : 08:38:31
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Montreal is an example of a team that owns it all. What I mean by that is they own the team AND the stadium they play in. Meaning nearly every dollar spent is revenue.
TO is also like this. I am not sure who else. Maybe NYR??? Not sure.
But ya, that $9.75 beer is nearly straight profit. I know at one time the Oilers went through around 250 kegs every couple of games. Week night games were less than week end games. Considering that a 50 L keg will fill 100 pints size glasses, that $975/keg. That's a cool $125,000 a game on beer. Nothing like $5 mil in beer revenues. |
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what city for YOUR franchise? 
