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framer87
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
338 Posts |
 Posted - 12/05/2006 : 09:30:46
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Poll Question:
Who will win the vezina/
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Edited by - bablaboushka on 12/05/2006 09:42:55
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 09:45:53
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Of course you all know I'm going to say this: Vesa Toskala
The stats don't lie...
13-2-0
1.98 GAA
.929 SV%
2 SO
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goon
Rookie
Canada
113 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 09:52:19
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Toskala's stats are impressive, but he is not the sexy pick for the Vezina. First, he plays in the west. I know Kipper is also in the West and I think he won last year, but his playoff run in 04 got him noticed. Toskala is a great goalie but doesn't have the Miller, Brodeur, Lehtonen star power, especially when it comes to the Eastern biased voters.
BTW, havn't we had a number of "Whos the best goalie polls"? |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 10:06:36
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Yeah I'm sure there have been a few like these but I haven't seen one in a while so it's not a huge deal.
I get where you're coming from and I agree. It all has to do with exposure and market location. I think Toskala could be 15-0 with a 1.2 GAA and he still wouldn't get noticed. I just hope that he gets a nomination at least, because he will keep up his pace and I think that by the end of the year, he will deserve it as much as anyone else.
If it wasn't for Cheechoo and Thornton winning awards last year, I don't think anyone would know the Sharks existed. It sucks for players like Toskala who might be the best goalie in the league but he doesn't get proportional exposure. |
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Guest4644
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Posted - 12/05/2006 : 13:54:33
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| kipprusof all the way bad start but hes on fire |
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framer87
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
338 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 18:28:08
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I dont think i goalie that plays the amount of Toskala can win the Vezina. Until hes starting every game or close to it how can you say hes a vezina winner when he doesnt even start all the time?
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 18:50:42
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| Well sure he might only play 40-45 games so you're right that probably won't be enough to earn him the Vezina. But if he doesn't win it, it's certainly not cause he doesn't deserve it. Say he plays 45 games...at his current pace he would finish 39-6-0. I don't see that being unreasonable, maybe 12 losses in 45 games at most. All the while he'll likely finish in the top 5 in GAA and SV% and earn 7-8 shutouts. So this leads me to ask how many games do you have to play to win, even if you put up Vezina-caliber numbers and lead a team atop the standings? |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 12/06/2006 18:54:46 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 19:17:55
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Why is it that no one sees Giguere for the goalie he is?? He's 16-2-5 in 24 games, all but 4 for Anahiem this year. His team is second in the league overall. He has faced more shots than all but 8 other goalies, and he still has a .922 save pct. and 2.21 GAA.
Although I think Roloson has meant more to the Oilers that any other goalie has meant to thier team, it's pretty hard to argue Giguere for the Vezina. Play majority of games, faces lots of shots, his team is nearly on top, and his stats are there too.
(Babs. I understand Toskala, but Giguere has nearly the same numbers playing more games.) |
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Trevman12
Rookie
Canada
182 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 19:13:47
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| Kiprusoff no doubt about it, hes the best goalie in the league. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 19:19:13
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| Comments like these make me want to explode. But I will keep it in as I have done plenty of Kiprusoff bashing lately. |
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framer87
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
338 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 13:58:58
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Kiprusoff is the best goalie in the league but right now giguere looks like he may take the Vezina.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 14:44:41
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| I disagree that Kipper is the best in the league. At the end of the day, winning games is what needs to happen, and Kipper is only 4 games over .500. He is one of the best, but to say he is the best without considering guys like Miller, Brodeur, Turco, and Toskala doesn't make sense. All of the goalies I have mentioned do not have the defense in front of them that Kipper does and all of them have more wins. If Anahiem stays consitant, I can't see how Giguere won't win. Unless Toskala gets a much more starts and stays playing well. Kipper is elite, but he is not hands down the best out there. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 16:41:45
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Thank you Beans, really.
I don't even buy the argument for Giguere to win. Sure he's playing well and has a great record and great numbers, but put Beauchemin, Pronger and Niedermayer on another team and get them all to play 25 minutes and even Patrick Lalime becomes "elite". He is good for sure, I won't take that away from him, but I think that the fact that he went from good to great overnight is no coincidence with the arrival of Pronger, along with the other two. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 12/08/2006 16:42:42 |
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framer87
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
338 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 16:54:15
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I didn't say Kipper was by far the best goalie in the league but i dont think that Toskala is the best yet.He may come to be in a couple of years but right now hes on a good team and hes only playing half the games.Ryan Miller Marty Brodeur, and Marty Turco are all great goalies but only Brodeur has done anything in the past. Turco has no vezinas neither does Miller and you say that they are better then Kipper? Im not saying they are bad but next to kipper they dont look that good but anyweays its only about 30 games into the year and time will tell who turns about to be t he vezina winner.
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 16:59:27
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whats up all its matt semin and rite now its all about marty turco boui!!!
hes keepin the stars up wiht a 14-7 i think wihtout turco stars would suck! |
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framer87
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
338 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 08:33:26
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I wouldnt say that right now Turco takes the vezina but it will be a close race between him,Brodeur,Toskala,Giguere and kipper
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 16:02:37
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OK Framer, good thing the Vezina is given you to the best goalie of the YEAR. What has happened in the past doesn't matter.
Babs, you are right. Giggy has the best defence in the league. But take a look back at history, most of the Vezina winners have lots of wins and great stats, regardless of the defence in front of them. How many did Broduer win with Stevens and Niedermayer in front of him. I agree, it is easier for him since he has the best D in the NHL in front of him, but if he stays consistant, it's his. By the way, Giguere has faced the 6th most shots in the league. That's more than 200 more than Toskala. About the same shots/game. Toskala is my second pick (as of today) but I think his lack of starts compared to Giguere will hurt him. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 19:38:13
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Well about Brodeur:
Stevens and Niedermayer both joined the Devils in 1991 and both left after 2004 (Stevens retired after the lockout and Niedermayer was signed by the Mighty Ducks). Martin Brodeur won two Vezinas, in 2003 and 2004. So it took him 12 years to win a Vezina behind these guys and under Pat Burns' system (for the most part). But it wasn't for his lack of production, Brodeur put up amazing numbers (he hasn't won less than 34 games in a year since 1994!!!) but somehow always took a backseat. He even won 3 Cups before he got the Vezina. He did it on his own.
Giguere on the other hand had done absolutely nothing (except a flukey, yes flukey playoff run where he won the Conn Smythe after Brodeur-like play) until Niedermayer, Beauchemin and Pronger were put in front of him. So yes, going along the best goalie of the YEAR line, he might deserve it. That's why Kiprusoff won last year, because of LAST YEAR. Good thing for him, cause otherwise Giguere wouldn't stand a chance. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 12/09/2006 19:39:36 |
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Guest1460
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Posted - 12/09/2006 : 19:52:59
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guigere kicks toskalas ass. san jose sucks ballsack.:
Stevens and Niedermayer both joined the Devils in 1991 and both left after 2004 (Stevens retired after the lockout and Niedermayer was signed by the Mighty Ducks). Martin Brodeur won two Vezinas, in 2003 and 2004. So it took him 12 years to win a Vezina behind these guys and under Pat Burns' system (for the most part). But it wasn't for his lack of production, Brodeur put up amazing numbers (he hasn't won less than 34 games in a year since 1994!!!) but somehow always took a backseat. He even won 3 Cups before he got the Vezina. He did it on his own.
Giguere on the other hand had done absolutely nothing (except a flukey, yes flukey playoff run where he won the Conn Smythe after Brodeur-like play) until Niedermayer, Beauchemin and Pronger were put in front of him. So yes, going along the best goalie of the YEAR line, he might deserve it. That's why Kiprusoff won last year, because of LAST YEAR. Good thing for him, cause otherwise Giguere wouldn't stand a chance.
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Guest5319
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Posted - 12/09/2006 : 20:51:32
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| Hmm? San Jose sucks balls? If San Jose sucks balls so their roster must also, but how can their roster suck balls when it contains stars like Marleau, Thornton(who may become Canadian captain in 2010), Cheechoo(who held the leageu record in goals last season with 58), and Michalek, Brenier, and Carle(leading rookie defensmen in points)who are all proving to be young forces, not to mention two ELITE goaltenders(for now). Damn, are you seriously thinking the sharks suck balls?! |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 21:42:23
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| Good call 5319 but I'm not sweating it. Empty comments like that with no educated opinion behind them mean nothing to me. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 12/09/2006 21:43:29 |
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B-rett10
Rookie
Canada
186 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 23:19:04
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Giguere is on fire right now and Toskala will no take ityah right he will only play have the season cause of Nabokov being on or off that night
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 05:19:47
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| I don't expect Toskala to win by any means, even though it'd be nice. But what I do know is that he will put up as good if not better numbers than the goalie who does win, but of course in about 20 fewer games. |
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 15:59:46
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
Thank you Beans, really.
I don't even buy the argument for Giguere to win. Sure he's playing well and has a great record and great numbers, but put Beauchemin, Pronger and Niedermayer on another team and get them all to play 25 minutes and even Patrick Lalime becomes "elite". He is good for sure, I won't take that away from him, but I think that the fact that he went from good to great overnight is no coincidence with the arrival of Pronger, along with the other two.
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Guest1493
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Posted - 12/10/2006 : 17:50:10
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sorry babladooshka
just let me tell you something, and you guest 5319.
all those good players on san jose like thornton marleau and cheechoo, as well as bernier and hannan, those are all canadians and without them the sharks would be nowhere.
wasn't it those stupid, ignorant san jose fans who booed the canadian anthem last year, despite all of that canadian talent on their team?
before telling me to make educated comments, maybe sharks fans should consider the same thing before booing another country. |
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Kashmire
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
506 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 18:13:15
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Then don't you mean the San Jose fans suck "ballsack"(lol). And if all those "good players like Thronton Marleau and Cheechoo, as well as Brenier and Hannan" are on the team then how can they suck? Whatever, I strongly believe that I have outdebated you 1493 and as far as the sharks suck the majority of this forum probably knows otherwise. You Yourself have admitted that San Jose has "all those good players" and I couldn't care less if fans somewhere in California mocked our Canadian anthem because thats how a large majority of southern American's think(Yes it is abit stereotypical).
P.S I am guest 5319, I have posted under many other guest accounts and have been VERY lazy about registering on the forum(took close to 3 months). |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 18:14:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest1493
sorry babladooshka
just let me tell you something, and you guest 5319.
all those good players on san jose like thornton marleau and cheechoo, as well as bernier and hannan, those are all canadians and without them the sharks would be nowhere.
wasn't it those stupid, ignorant san jose fans who booed the canadian anthem last year, despite all of that canadian talent on their team?
before telling me to make educated comments, maybe sharks fans should consider the same thing before booing another country.
If you are to address me, spell my name correctly. I'm gonna answer this one anyways though:
Of course the Sharks would be weaker without those players above, but that's what a team is. Eliminate 5 players off of whoever your team is and I bet they are no good too, so I don't know where you were going with that.
Yes Sharks fans booed the Canadian national anthem last year in the playoffs against Edmonton in game 5. It shows how much passion Sharks fans have for their team and while they didn't express it in the right way (especially considering the nationality of a large chunk of their players), it's not like it's anything new. They were booing the Oilers, not Canada as it was a heat-of-the-moment, emotional outcry on their part (don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning it). It was disrespectful nonetheless, but they were booing the team not the country. Don't forget Vancouver booing the American anthem at the World Juniors and the Canadiens' fans booing the American anthem whenever an American team came to the Bell Centre right after the American troops were deployed to Iraq. Point is, Sharks fans are not ignorant or stupid (except for select few that chose to express their passion in an inappropriate way) and the Shark Tank has often been described as one of the most vibrant and electric arenas during home games in the league.
Lastly, what does something that happened last year in the playoffs a full continent's distance from my house have to do with your comments? Saying that the Sharks suck and that Toskala sucks ballsack or whatever you said is a blatantly uneducated remark, especially when you have no basis on which to make these judgments. Relating a 7-month-past event where I had no control or influence, to the credibility of your posts is absolutely absurd. If you are to criticize Toskala, the Sharks or any player/team, please do it with facts/bases to support your opinion. Certainly do not criticize me for your inadequacy of expression. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 12/10/2006 18:16:33 |
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framer87
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
338 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 18:49:21
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I wouldn't say the sharks suck ballsack or Toskala sucks ballsack but booing somebodys national anthem is ridiculous it shows how ignorant they are of Canada.
Go pens |
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 18:54:17
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| It would be tight as usaual maybe Kipper or Turco Luongo or Toskala nobody knows |
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Guest9223
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Posted - 12/10/2006 : 19:42:38
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alright bablaboushka you are right and i apologize for my rude comments, which were certainly stupid and uneducated remarks. the sharks are certainly a great team with loads of talent and i know that none of their players do suck in any way (except scott parker).
toskala is playing great and nabokov has regained his calder form. it would not be any surprise to me if san jose made the western conference final this year, maybe even the cup final.
my comments were merely based on some meaningless (leftover from last year) bad feelings i still had as a passionate oilers fan, and once again i apologize. statements like the ones i made have no place in the forum and i would be very upset if the same remarks were directed at me or the oilers. |
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 20:17:05
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| well it's good to know you know you did something wrong |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 20:22:04
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Well hey whatever, no need to apologize. Just had to say you were an Oilers fan and I would have understood  .
I hate Scott Parker. |
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 20:26:14
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| Same here |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 08:59:28
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As an Oilers Fan I did not take offense to the Sharks and the Booing during the anthem. Reason being it gave the Oiler fans the chance to get back by patriotically singing the US Anthem and the Canadian Anthem and was another piece of proof of something that I have known for a long time. Oil Fans are the best fans in the league!
Ok, getting back to reality for a second. What does any of this have to do the the Vezina? |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 09:06:59
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Nothing lol, just quickly addressing an issue, it's all good now.
GO TOSKALA  |
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Guest9120
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Posted - 12/11/2006 : 12:34:52
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You guys forgot the guy who will win.
HIP HIP HUET!!! |
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NuckH8R
Top Prospect
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 13:53:27
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quote:
Yes Sharks fans booed the Canadian national anthem last year in the playoffs against Edmonton in game 5. It shows how much passion Sharks fans have for their team and while they didn't express it in the right way (especially considering the nationality of a large chunk of their players), it's not like it's anything new. They were booing the Oilers, not Canada as it was a heat-of-the-moment, emotional outcry on their part (don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning it). It was disrespectful nonetheless, but they were booing the team not the country. Don't forget Vancouver booing the American anthem at the World Juniors and the Canadiens' fans booing the American anthem whenever an American team came to the Bell Centre right after the American troops were deployed to Iraq. Point is, Sharks fans are not ignorant or stupid (except for select few that chose to express their passion in an inappropriate way) and the Shark Tank has often been described as one of the most vibrant and electric arenas during home games in the league.
Well said. I hate it when people get their panties all in a knot when a national anthem gets booed.
PS. Babladooshka was both creative and hilarious.
--Gaborik, Demitra, Rolston-- |
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Ryan Harper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 14:03:03
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Wow bablaboushka, I take the weekend off to move and I return to a bunch of brainwashed Shark lovers. I think its time everyone stop drinking the teal Kool-Aid and get real.
To the guy apologizing for bashing the Sharks and there fans - dont sweat it.
As far as the Vezina goes - it rarely goes to the best goaltender. Ryan Miller is my prediction - not because he is the best, but:
a) New York market
b) great team - lots of wins
If you were to pose the question, if you had to play one game for the Stanley Cup, which goaltender would you want between the pipes?
Martin Brodeur
"Some people skate to the puck. I skate to where the puck is going to be."
~Wayne Gretzky
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Trevman12
Rookie
Canada
182 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 15:44:55
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| KIPPER KIPPER KIPPER!!!!! |
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2006 : 16:48:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9120
You guys forgot the guy who will win.
HIP HIP HUET!!!
maybe huet |
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framer87
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
338 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 14:18:27
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Ya I forgot about Huet
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Vezina trophy 
