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Guest2272
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Posted - 12/04/2009 :  07:14:18  Reply with Quote
If the wings want to compete this year they need to make a deal for a goalie, without a goalie they may have a hard time making the playoffs this year

Edited by - willus3 on 12/04/2009 11:17:07

Guest7113
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Posted - 12/04/2009 :  07:18:47  Reply with Quote
I hope this isn't a response to last night... Howard was atrocious, but the Oilers outplayed the Wings in every aspect of that game.
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Guest2272
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Posted - 12/04/2009 :  07:28:16  Reply with Quote
it wasnt just last night they havent had consistent goaltending all year osgood played a couple good games but he has a save percent less then 900 and he has good d helping him out. If they had a good goalie that goalie would have some of the best stats in the league
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4511 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2009 :  10:52:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, the Wings may need a goalie, that's true . . . but they are also missing their second line scoring. Not to make an excuse for Datsyuk and Zetterberg, because they have had a slow start . . . but they certainly are missing Hossa, and with Franzen out, they just don't have that many snipers anymore.

I definitely see a deal for a goalie before the trade deadline, if not around Chistmas.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest4803
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Posted - 12/04/2009 :  11:05:44  Reply with Quote
they should swing a deal for halak
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2009 :  11:14:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803

they should swing a deal for halak

Try Biron. Halak is another question mark. With biron he is at least a starter, who may not be flashy, but is steady.
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sharksfan44
Rookie



Canada
228 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2009 :  11:41:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
sorry i cant find a link to this but i remember reading something about how wen the islanders signed biron, they told him that once dipietro came back, they were most likley going to trade him and he was ok with that. so the islanders would most likely be willing to listen to any deal from the wings. perhaps something to look out for?
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2009 :  14:43:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With Roli playing strong and Dipietro nearing a return, I'd say the window for a Biron deal is closing fast.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2009 :  14:47:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's amazing how quickly the masses change. :Last season I was talking about Osgood being average to below average at best and I was shocked by how many people argued that. People said Osgood was HOF material. I said that Osgood played on a brilliant team and was nothing more than average.

Now, with the Red Wings a maginal team, look how many people are talking about Detroit needing a goalie??


Biron would be a 1/2 step up but that is about it. I would bet that Kenny Holland will be chasing some UFA's hard next season.

Nabokov anyone??? SJ is up against the cap.........
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2009 :  15:01:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

It's amazing how quickly the masses change. :Last season I was talking about Osgood being average to below average at best and I was shocked by how many people argued that. People said Osgood was HOF material. I said that Osgood played on a brilliant team and was nothing more than average.

Now, with the Red Wings a maginal team, look how many people are talking about Detroit needing a goalie??


Biron would be a 1/2 step up but that is about it. I would bet that Kenny Holland will be chasing some UFA's hard next season.

Nabokov anyone??? SJ is up against the cap.........

Bean's as far as I recollect, me and you were on the same page with Osgood. My thoughts where he shows up in the post season. Biron IMO is more than a step up. This Detroit team has proven they dont need the best Goalie just need a steady Goalie. In my opinion Biron is as steady as it gets and he is more than willing to tandem in net with another veteran. He doesn't make wave's and his cost is minimal for his return.
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2009 :  16:22:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
About 25 teams in the NHL would love to have Nabokov, but even with cap space in need for the Sharks, I can't see them giving up (without a hard fight,) their #1 in Nabby.

Unless of course, the price was extremley right.

Irvine
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2009 :  18:04:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have never once, in my life, claimed Osgood as being a HOF goaltender, nor even compared him to the elite.

Osgood has had an alright career, but he has never been amazing. In fact, I have always thought of Osgood as a backup goaltender in the NHL. (A good back-up), but a back-up none-the-less. He should not be a starter.

The Wings have needed a goaltender for a while now. Even with the recent Cup win and repeat to the finals back-to-back, goaltending was always the issue for the Wings. They need a bonafied #1 goaltender, and Osgood is not it. They need to go searching and soon if they wish to be a contender this year.

Irvine
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4511 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2009 :  23:03:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll pile in here - I argued vociferously against Osgood going into the HHOF, look it up.

And I continue to say it -- not a bad goalie, not a great one either. Has played well on stacked teams in the playoffs that literally have let 3 or less stellar scoring chances per game happen. Osgood has tenacity, I'll give him that - but that's it.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2009 :  06:18:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let me jump in on this as well. Along with Beans and Slozo, I too was stong in my stance against Osgood as a elite HHOF calibre goalie. I believe my arguements was that Osgood is the type of goalie who looks good when he as an excellent team in front of him. Of course everyone is quick to point out the bad things when a player is down on his luck, so here we are talking about Osgood again.
The wings this year are missing some the talent that left for free agency or other.
Lidstrom is the best Dmen of the last decade and one the best to play. However he is getting older and no longer can carry the team alone.
The wings have become a one line team. Surely missing the secondary scoring power that they had for years. They are one the elite organizations and I am sure will not fall into a total tear down and rebuild.
They will need a trade for a goalie, likely will be Biron or maybe even JS Giguere. Could be a surprise though, maybe Toskala out of TO. Funny thing though, for all the draft picks that Detroit had managed to turn into NHL players, they never selected a goalie that has worked out good except Osgood drafted back in 92
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2009 :  08:41:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is the original "Osgood for HOF" thread. Mostly guests and a Pokermatt fellow talking about the HOF.

However, it still shocked me to see 60 out of 160 say he is HOF material.


To the topic at hand, I don't believe Biron is a step up on Osgood. Both are ultimately back ups or very low grade #1. Biron could barely hold the #1 job against Nitttymaki. Furthermore, Osgood usually does step up in the playoffs. Biron has been very average.

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2009 :  11:22:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Here is the original "Osgood for HOF" thread. Mostly guests and a Pokermatt fellow talking about the HOF.

However, it still shocked me to see 60 out of 160 say he is HOF material.


To the topic at hand, I don't believe Biron is a step up on Osgood. Both are ultimately back ups or very low grade #1. Biron could barely hold the #1 job against Nitttymaki. Furthermore, Osgood usually does step up in the playoffs. Biron has been very average.



Nitttymaki is not a bad goalie so if he dueled with Nitttymaki and won that tells you he is a #1 goalie. I'll be honest though and say I thought he put Philly in top contention, when they signed Biron and was surprised that the team did not succeed more with him. His time in Buffalo was spectacular, and if it weren't for Millar he would have had a good shot at being a #1 there.
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2009 :  09:15:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think Detroit is most likely gonna just hope Jimmy Howard can pan out because they are hamstrung by the fact that they have alot of salary on the IR right now (Franzen, Flippula, Kronwall, Williams, Lilja) but they will all be back at some point this year. That being said a major goaltending move to take on the salary of a J.S. Giguerre /$6.5 mil or Martin Biron/$3.5 mil or even Toskala/$4mil. Osgood is hard to peg, some nights he looks like a legitimate #1 other nights he looks like an AHL back up.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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Guest5904
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Posted - 12/06/2009 :  12:36:24  Reply with Quote
how many cups does a guy have to win before he gets some credit? osgoods not the best or flashiest, but hes clutch, hes won before, and as good as a team is, without a goalie they will go no where in the playoffs. i applaud chris osgood for an outstanding redwings career. if a great team can win with an average goalie, why didnt the sens win with lalime?
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2009 :  13:12:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5904

how many cups does a guy have to win before he gets some credit? osgoods not the best or flashiest, but hes clutch, hes won before, and as good as a team is, without a goalie they will go no where in the playoffs. i applaud chris osgood for an outstanding redwings career. if a great team can win with an average goalie, why didnt the sens win with lalime?


Because the Sens team was nowhere close the wings teams that won the cups, thats why. Raycroft could have won the cup with those Wings teams in front of him.
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2009 :  13:24:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As someone with Osgood in my pool I can assure you he does not get the job done and you can't make the playoffs on reputation. Ask the Islanders and Blues how good Osgood is

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4511 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2009 :  05:45:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So, young Jimmy Howard wins again as Osgood sits on the bench . . . and the coach says he starts next game as well.

Anyone seen this guy in action? Is he for real, or is Detroit still going to be goalie shopping in a couple of months?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2009 :  07:18:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I watched Howard against Edmonton last week. Shaky to say the least. I don't think the kid is #1 material but he's what they have to go with today.

I think Osgood is about done. But, I will admit that he has stepped up in the playoffs. I still think the Wings can be a dangerous team if they are healthy. But I also think they miss Hossa a lot more than they realized they would. They will definately be shopping for some kind of offensive scoring type players at the deadline, but I am not sure if there are many out there.

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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4511 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2009 :  10:00:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, for a team like the Wings, they just need to look for some secondary scoring . . . .

. . . do you think they'll bite on Gabovski? How about Blake? Anyone? Anyone?

In all seriousness, I think they go for a goalie first, and they probably look for trade with a team that has a tandem going or a good young back-up. Plenty of choices that way, just tough to do a trade . . . and these last few years, there haven't been a plethora of mid-season trades from the Wings. So who knows, they could stand pat . . . but I don't see it.
Why would they throw away the season because their missing a goalie and some secondary scoring? The Wings'll make a move, even if it is for a decent stop-gap.

What's Hasek up to these days?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2009 :  12:00:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree the Wings need to make a move but i think they are really limited with the cap issues I mentioned earlier. There isn't many goaltending options available under 4 million and the same goes for secondary scoring, even Grabovski makes 2.75.

The Red Wings have less than a million left under the cap so with the amount of players hurt I can't see Ken Holland being able to make any meaningful moves without giving up an important piece in a Niklas Kronwall, Brad Stuart or Valtteri Filppula. It would have to be a dollars for dollars trade and the Wings don't have much trade bait.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2009 :  12:36:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So after posting I looked up the list of pending UFA's and one named popped up that could be viable for the Red Wing's goalie situation. Andrew Raycroft ... as a leaf fan I can't believe I'm saying it, but at a cap hit of only $500 000 its doable. Listen it's plain to see Osgood's game has fallen off and with the blow's Detroit's blue line has taken they can't support him like in year's past.

I'm not by any means saying Raycroft is a long term answer but could be a half season band aid for a team with serious goaltending issues. During the strech where Luongo was injured Raycroft played well and posted solid number's 4-3, 1 shutout, .910 sv%, 2.45 GAA (which is his best since his Calder Trophy winning rookie season). So at a million less than Osgood, which could be used to obtain some of that secondary scoring, it's an interesting possibility. Only issue being Vancouver is in similar cap shape so some juggling would be involved.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



695 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2009 :  15:59:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I watched Howard against Edmonton last week. Shaky to say the least. I don't think the kid is #1 material but he's what they have to go with today.

I think Osgood is about done. But, I will admit that he has stepped up in the playoffs. I still think the Wings can be a dangerous team if they are healthy. But I also think they miss Hossa a lot more than they realized they would. They will definately be shopping for some kind of offensive scoring type players at the deadline, but I am not sure if there are many out there.





They do miss Hossa of course, but I don't think he's the main reason. Hudler, Samuelsson left with free agency, And they got hit with injuries, Franzen, Lilja, Filpulla and Williams. And now Kronwall. This is a lot of second and third liner out of the lineup.

Plus Osgood, Lidstrom and Rafalski are not getting younger.

They will still make the playoffs and be a contender.

As for Osgood I always thought he was an average goalie, and he's in the bottom 5 starters in the NHL. But he does step up in the playoffs. He played behind a great team but he was good when he needed to be.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



695 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2009 :  16:07:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33

So after posting I looked up the list of pending UFA's and one named popped up that could be viable for the Red Wing's goalie situation. Andrew Raycroft ... as a leaf fan I can't believe I'm saying it, but at a cap hit of only $500 000 its doable. Listen it's plain to see Osgood's game has fallen off and with the blow's Detroit's blue line has taken they can't support him like in year's past.

I'm not by any means saying Raycroft is a long term answer but could be a half season band aid for a team with serious goaltending issues. During the strech where Luongo was injured Raycroft played well and posted solid number's 4-3, 1 shutout, .910 sv%, 2.45 GAA (which is his best since his Calder Trophy winning rookie season). So at a million less than Osgood, which could be used to obtain some of that secondary scoring, it's an interesting possibility. Only issue being Vancouver is in similar cap shape so some juggling would be involved.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem



If they do trade for a goalie they will want an upgrade from Osgood or Howard. Raycroft is not an upgrade. And they do have some trading baits. They have some of the best third and fourth liner in the NHL. and they have depth on defense.

They are limited because of injuries though. And they will only trade if it's a definitive upgrade. Biron and Gigučre are the only two that comes in mind. Gigučre's salary is too high. But I don't know who said Biron salary was 3.5 million but it's actually 1.4 million. So it is very possible. And they wont have to give much for him either. They will only need to outbit the other teams.
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2009 :  16:35:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ya youre right i posted that salary that was his salary in his last year in philly my bad. Definately agree then that at $1.4 million Biron is the best available and it would be essentially an even money deal for Osgood but frankly I think Osgood would have to be comitted to a mental institution if he got traded back to the island.

I also agree they have good second and third liners than other teams would be interested in I just meant that with their salary cap the low salary of those players makes them hard to improve upon.

There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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