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phlyguy90
Rookie



USA
100 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  10:49:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
what the hell is wrong? i have backed them on this site numerous times. i've ranted and raved about how good they were and how they're going to win the cup. why have you let me down? anyone have any ideas about what is wrong in philadelphia?

Edited by - willus3 on 12/19/2009 10:45:34

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  10:56:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phlyguy90

what the hell is wrong? i have backed them on this site numerous times. i've ranted and raved about how good they were and how they're going to win the cup. why have you let me down? anyone have any ideas about what is wrong in philadelphia?

They need to stop being told there a good team and start shaking the roster up some. Just like Ray Emery, this team looks good on paper until you see it in action. I know Brier, Carter and Richards are good players, but for the life of me cant remember another forward on this team.
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
399 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  11:06:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah i know what the hell is wrong with the flyers.They are supposed to be in 1st place according to hockeybuzz.com.But they have awesome players like:

Forwards:

Jeff Carter
Daniel Briere
Mike Richards
Simon Gagne (injured)
Claude Giroux
Scott Hartnell
James van Riemsdyk

Defence:

Chris Pronger
Braydon Coburn (injured)
Kimmo Timonen

Goalies:

Ray Emery (injured)

They cant seem to get it done

PhillyFan12
Philly Rules!!!

Edited by - PhillyFan12 on 12/20/2009 16:40:52
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Gusteroni
Rookie



Canada
225 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  11:40:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why didn't they go after Halak instead of Leighton? I think he would have been a good fit in Philly. I heard he's a RFA next year though but they don't need him long term anyway and at $800,000 he's a steal of a deal. What a shame.

"There are only two seasons in Canada...hockey season and not hockey season."
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  11:56:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Injuries are one thing. Coaching change is another. Missing a #1 goalie(lets face it, Emery was a risk and everyone knew it) and they are also in the toughest division in hockey, in my opinion.

I too expected more out of the team on paper, but there is still a lot of season left. Even if they get in 6th-8th, they can still make noise.

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phlyguy90
Rookie



USA
100 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  12:08:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah emery was a huge risk, and i still think the jury is out on him. whats up with coburn? he sucks. the guy seems to be regressing, he has all the talent in the world and hes big but he just doesnt show up game in and game out. i honestly thought that he would be one of the guys who really shined this season.
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  12:42:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've heard talk that there is a rift in the dressing room between the younger players and the older players. Apparently the younger guys are enjoying the philly nightlife a little too much and it wasnt going over well with guys like Chris Pronger. Mike Richards held a closed door meeting a few days ago to try and clear the air and get the team back on track but it hasnt seemed to really work yet.

The lost 2 to pitt recently but honestly, even on their best day they could still have lost those 2 games so we shall see over the next week or so if philly starts to bounce back. There is too much talent there to keep down, the only thing that can stop this team are themselves and so far thats what has happened.

A goaltender might help as well..... you just knew the emery thing would flop

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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phlyguy90
Rookie



USA
100 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  12:54:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you see i dont think goaltending has the problem. while i'm not completely sold on emery, he has played well before he got injured and went under the knife. brian boucher has played well enough to win a few more games. this team just lacks that it factor that all good teams seem to have. they have no identity and most nights it seems like they dont play with any passion at all.
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  12:56:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You know why? Hungover

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  14:58:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phlyguy90

what the hell is wrong? i have backed them on this site numerous times. i've ranted and raved about how good they were and how they're going to win the cup. why have you let me down? anyone have any ideas about what is wrong in philadelphia?



LOL, when i first read this and you said "why have you let me down", i figured you were talking about US, as in, the other posters on this site. I honestly thought you were giving us crap for not taking the chance to roast you and your support / faith in your team!

As for what you really meant, i still think they're very close to being a far more competetive team. I really do believe they need a better goalie though. Emery started strong but even before he left with the injury, he'd faded and was not playing well. They def have most of the tools they need, but something's just not clicking, be it the chemistry or???? Still don't think they're far off but they might be at the point where they need a trade or something like that to shake things up?
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Guest4889
( )

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  17:09:27  Reply with Quote
Listen...I am a huge Flyers fan and can't believe what I am seeing this year!! This team was one of the favourites to contend for the cup before the season started...and that isn't just a delusional fan's opinion.
I totally agree with the Coburn comment....I really thought he was going to have a great year....MAYBE even catch the eye of Team Canada. All the tools but definitely regressing.
And I really don't think the jury is out on Emery. My understanding is he was trying to play through the injury....and Boucher has been more than adequate.
So what is the problem?? I DON'T KNOW...lol
They seemed to be playing so well at the start of the year then the wheels completely fell off the wagon. Don't know if Stevens had to go but understand what they were trying to do....shake things up. Hopefully it works!
I do think that this next little stretch might turn the tide...and hopefully Gagne can come back and add even more depth. Hopefully they can make it into playoffs and get on a roll like the Penguins did.
Cross your fingers.
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umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
427 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  17:55:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Meanwhile Nittymaki (spelling?) is in Tampa with a 2.4 GAA.

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2009 :  09:42:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PhillyFan12

Yeah i know what the hell is wrong with the flyers.They are supposed to be in 1st place according to hockeybuzz.com.But they have awesome players like:

Forwards:

Jeff Carter
Daniel Briere
Mike Richards
Simon Gagne (injured)
Claude Giroux
Scott Hartnell

Defence:

Chris Pronger
Braydon Coburn (injured)
Kimmo Timonen

Goalies:

Ray Emery (injured)

They cant seem to get it done

PhillyFan12
Philly Rules!!!

Am I the only one who didn't see stanely cup contenders when I look at this group of players? There are 4-5 players which most teams would love to have on there roster but this is a team which other called a cup favorite.

Are Richards and Carter that good? I know there stats, but are these 2 really at the Elite level?

I know all about Pronger and this is not 2005-2006. He is a great player but is no longer a heart and soul player who can carry a team to the playoffs.

Emery has lots of history to draw upon and I dont think I need to point out his failings.

Briere has not return to the form he had when he co-captained the Sabres.

Gagne hasn't played a game and we knew that in the Offseason.

The rest of the roster are genuine NHL players who would crack most teams rosters so no knock there, but is this team really top 5-10 team in this years NHL.
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2009 :  16:19:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Am I the only one who didn't see stanely cup contenders when I look at this group of players? There are 4-5 players which most teams would love to have on there roster but this is a team which other called a cup favorite.

Are Richards and Carter that good? I know there stats, but are these 2 really at the Elite level?

I know all about Pronger and this is not 2005-2006. He is a great player but is no longer a heart and soul player who can carry a team to the playoffs.

Emery has lots of history to draw upon and I dont think I need to point out his failings.

Briere has not return to the form he had when he co-captained the Sabres.

Gagne hasn't played a game and we knew that in the Offseason.

The rest of the roster are genuine NHL players who would crack most teams rosters so no knock there, but is this team really top 5-10 team in this years NHL.



I agree with phlyguy in that the jury is still out on Emery, most sources seem to say he was playing hurt 3 weeks or so before he actually went on the IR. He played well the first month and showed he was capable of the same play he showed in Ottawa.

I wouldn't have called them a Stanley Cup team but they were certainly deserving of being called a playoff threat

Briere: has the talent to be a game changer but I agree isn't the same player he was in Buffalo
Richards/Carter: Both excellent players and deserving of the distinction as top level guys
Pronger: Still the defensive monster he was for the Ducks and Oilers in their respective playoff runs.
Gagne: Actually played 9 games and had 5 pts but is just coming back off surgery and is capable of being an elite guy

Their top 5 defensemen are as good as anyone's:

Pronger
Timmonen
Coburn
Parent
Carle

As I see it their problems lie in the locker room. Pronger seems unable to assume a lesser leadership role and is butting heads with Richards. The coaching change isn't helping because I don't think John Stevens really had anything to do with their woes.

One guy I think this team sorely misses is Mike Knuble.

Edited by - Tiller33 on 12/19/2009 16:23:00
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1547 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2009 :  16:40:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gagne is now back from injury, and got a point in his return, I think all this team needs is a goalie, I am suprised they haven't gone after halak yet who clearly wants out of montreal.

CANUCKS RULE!!!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2009 :  18:43:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, a team with this much talent shouldn't be where they are, that's for sure. I had predicted that they would fight with Pittsburgh for first, probably winning the division. As much as I hate the Flyers organisation, there are quite a few solid players I enjoy watching on that team, Richards, Carter and Briere.

If that report about Pronger has any validity to it (him preaching against late nights out and whatnot) that would be a real laugher. His off ice exploits are supposedly legendary (heard this from a couple of mates of mine who used to go to the same parties). At any rate, there must be some butting of heads going on between Pronger and Richards, and I wouldn't bet against Pronger being the source of that problem.

The weak spot of Philly that we all talked about before the season was Emery . . . and now, they don't even have him. What is it with Philly goaltending? At any rate, I didn't see a cup with Emery, but with such a solid team in front, they should have ben good for one or two rounds at least.

So, with this much talent, can they have this record - down there with the Leafs! - with just leadership and goalie issues? Nope, gotta be more to it . . . and you have to look at the coaching. I would think that a change has to happen by the Olympic break if things haven't started to turn around by then.

But really, it's a head scratcher . . . we all figured that division was going to be the toughest in the NHL this season, and it still pretty much looks like it, with only the Flyers disappointing, and New Jersey as usual doing much better than expected.

I still see the Flyers finishing at least third in their division and making the playoffs at worst . . . they just have too much talent on D and with their forwards to not make the playoffs.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  07:24:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's the thing with Pronger, say what you will about his off ice actions, he has been a great team mate where ever he goes. If he out on the party scene, he is at practice or the game tomorrow for sure, and he performs. Hearing this from his former team mate.

Now, here is a little something that interesting. The head hockey writer for the Edmonton Sun does a full page spread every Sunday including hots and not and stuff he is hearing. The scuttle butt on the street is that Carter is on the market. Here's the quote:

The Flyers are believed to be trying to trade C Jeff Carter. Philadelphia GM Paul Holmgren nixed a dead for Montreal G Joroslav Halak, and wants to see if can get more for Carter.

Not sure how much truth is behind it, but one has to think there is an outside issue or something because the two Flyer star forwards went for nearly sure locks for the Olympic Team to playing them selves off most every list.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  08:44:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, that would be big new indeed Beans . .. and it sure would explain a lot of things, namely, Carter's slow start, and the team playing nervous, not knowing if they are also going to get traded.

I wonder if the Flyers like how Toskala's been playing of late?!? Maybe Joey MacDonald?

I kid of course . . . in reality, I think Halak for Carter wouldn't be that bad at all, it'd be a great deal for Montreal, and they have the advantage as Philly is in no position to bargain doing as badly as they are. Normally, they should get more for carter, but under the circumstances, seems about right.

Very interesting stuff indeed.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  10:14:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by slozo[/i]

I wonder if the Flyers like how Toskala's been playing of late?!? Maybe Joey MacDonald?




Holmgren would probably prefer a goalie that doesn't turn around and toss pucks into his own net.

For me I think Halak for Carter would be a horrible move for Philly. They are mired in a huge slump but throwing away the future to win a few games now is ridiculous, I don't even think John Ferguson Jr. would pull the trigger on a move like that. However, If Montreal were to toss in some picks and a prospect like Subban or Leblanc the deal might make more sense. Also with Carter's cap hit of $5 million to fit him in the deal would require Montreal to drop an additional $3.4 million in cap space in addition to Halak's $775,000 outgoing salary and the $742,000 in cap space they currently have left. So the deal doesn't make any sense to me both from a talent perspective and an economic perspective.

http://www.capgeek.com/tracker/team.php?Team=2&date=2009-12-21

Edited by - Tiller33 on 12/21/2009 10:22:44
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  13:37:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Giving up on Jeff Carter right now would be stupid, Maple Leafs stupid.

That being said, if im Brian Burke and its true that Jeff Carter is available, I get my iron in that fire pretty quickly.

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  14:55:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85[/i]
[br]Giving up on Jeff Carter right now would be stupid, Maple Leafs stupid.

That being said, if im Brian Burke and its true that Jeff Carter is available, I get my iron in that fire pretty quickly.

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".



Amen to that I'm a Gustavsson believer but if I can get carter I give him up in heart beat.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  16:00:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Burke is in the same position as Gainey in regards to the cap. He too would have to drop $5 million in salary, and I would all but promise the Carter deal would have to include Gustovsson, Hagman, and any 1st round picks over the next 2-3 years that Boston doesn't already own.

Ultimately, a deal for Carter to TO just isn't in the cards. First of all, you have Kessel already. He's your 40+ goal scorer. Carter is also a goal scorer and why pay over $10 million a season for 2 40+ goal scorers and no one to set them up. And don't even pull that Nazim Kadri stuff. The kid was on the bubble of making the Canadian Juniors and he's been labelled a puck hog. He won't be ready next season either.

Furthermore, Philly has all the pieces. I don't think a trade is what they need. I think a serious impact to the locker room, one way or the other is needed. Something is amiss inside that team. It's not the talent they have a any specific holes. Sure, Emery is still a risk, but he is a risk that has gone to the Finals as well.
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redneck76ca
Rookie



186 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  16:58:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tiller33[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by slozo[/i]

I wonder if the Flyers like how Toskala's been playing of late?!? Maybe Joey MacDonald?




Holmgren would probably prefer a goalie that doesn't turn around and toss pucks into his own net.

For me I think Halak for Carter would be a horrible move for Philly. They are mired in a huge slump but throwing away the future to win a few games now is ridiculous, I don't even think John Ferguson Jr. would pull the trigger on a move like that. However, If Montreal were to toss in some picks and a prospect like Subban or Leblanc the deal might make more sense. Also with Carter's cap hit of $5 million to fit him in the deal would require Montreal to drop an additional $3.4 million in cap space in addition to Halak's $775,000 outgoing salary and the $742,000 in cap space they currently have left. So the deal doesn't make any sense to me both from a talent perspective and an economic perspective.

http://www.capgeek.com/tracker/team.php?Team=2&date=2009-12-21


Montreal will be getting some serious cap relief with the amount of players out with injuries and the young guys that have been "filling" the void aren't making that much. Halak for Carter straight up would be dumb for the Flyers. Don't get me wrong, I believe that Halak is a bonafide starter and could be great in the future but Montreal would have to send some prospects or picks to get it done.
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2009 :  21:25:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The cap relief is only temporary though, and the only player Montreal has on the IR is Gionta and he'll be back at some point. even if Mara's hand injury tonight keeps him out of the line up for 6 weeks you can't bring in a $5 million player only to have to sit another one in Gionta.

And Beans relax were not saying sell the farm for Carter but as a GM of an NHL franchise, to not inquire about a player of Carter's calibre would be foolish.

And as for Kadri he had 3 pts against Sweeden the other night put away the noose and let the kid's play speak for himself.

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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  09:09:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tiller, don't throw water where there is no fire. I don't appreciate the relax comment as it was not warranted.

Quite simply, being 2nd worst in the league in goals against with 130 and also 2nd worst in goal differential at -24 while being in the top 10 in goals for tells me that a goal scorer is not what would help the Leafs. And Carter is on pace for a killer 28 goals and 63 points. Is that worth $5 million??? He may be the next Cheechoo!!

Kadri has to play for his play to speak for itself. The bubble comment was not out of line either. Take a look at this story from just 8 days ago.

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/story/?id=302375

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  09:41:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Beans15[/i]
[br]Tiller, don't throw water where there is no fire. I don't appreciate the relax comment as it was not warranted.

Quite simply, being 2nd worst in the league in goals against with 130 and also 2nd worst in goal differential at -24 while being in the top 10 in goals for tells me that a goal scorer is not what would help the Leafs. And Carter is on pace for a killer 28 goals and 63 points. Is that worth $5 million??? He may be the next Cheechoo!!

Kadri has to play for his play to speak for itself. The bubble comment was not out of line either. Take a look at this story from just 8 days ago.

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/story/?id=302375



I dont think the Cheechoo comment is fair assesment. But I also dont see TO being in the mix. Too many good teams with cap space who are in the playoff picture but were not expecting to be there. NYI, Pheonix, St Louis, Atlanta or a team like Carolina who needs to make a major change soon and has the trade bait and cap space to boot.
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/25/2009 :  12:42:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll chalk that one up to holiday stress on your part beans there was nothing antagonizing about what i wrote.

Never disputed the fact that Kadri was a bubble player, how could any of us Pierre Mguire makes the point 8 times a broadcast. However in 3 pre tournament games he had 4 pts those are pretty decent numbers. So saying let his play speak for itself is a fair comment.

People just love to carve up Leaf prospects with a mention of him being on the "bubble", but when the kid goes out and performs and no one outside Leaf land will give him any credit it is frustrating. I'm not saying he's a super-star in the waiting Wellwood, Stajan. White, Coliacovo and Brendan Bell were all leaf prospects on a world junior team and none of them are superstars. All I'm saying is when he plays well give him his due just like any other player on Team Canada or any other nation for that matter.

So again let his play speak for itself

As for the Flyers Carter is still one of their more consistent players on a team that is having one of the worst locker-room melt downs that I can remember. For me it's a little difficult to take any of the Flyers stats at face value with the amount of turmoil in that locker-room. Reports are starting to surface that the Flyers are considering firing Laviolette now. This franchise is in serious trouble and from everything I have read it boils down to a leadership vaccum between Pronger and Richards and that half the team follws Pronger and half the team follows Richards. It all sounds a little school yardish to me but where there is that much smoke there must be one hell of a fire.
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Guest4741
( )

Posted - 12/26/2009 :  12:32:47  Reply with Quote
I think its a locker room problem.

There have been rumors of a Richards Pronger split with teammates taking either side.

One source of the split might be the recent rumor that's been floating around. That is, that Jeff Carter slept with Hartnell's wife. I know its just a rumor, and probably not true at that, but it sure would explain a lot.
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Guest4881
( )

Posted - 12/26/2009 :  17:22:41  Reply with Quote
LOL...that certainly would explain things! You have to wonder what goes on down there in Philly...rumour has always been that Lindros slept with Brindamours wife which is why they moved Rod the Bod.
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Guest4881
( )

Posted - 12/26/2009 :  17:25:54  Reply with Quote
Now watching the Flyer/Carolina game and Hartnell and Carter are still playing on the same line so I would have to guess that the rumours of infidelity are greatly exagerated...lol
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Guest6414
( )

Posted - 01/12/2010 :  11:20:37  Reply with Quote
I don't care what anybody say's i am the world's biggest flyer fan and that's that. I have thousands of dollars tied up in this team in memorabilia etc. etc. and have been a devoted fan since their first cup win. But this year more than any other to date, i have been so frusrtrated with this team! Why is it every year stupid penalty's and shawdy goaltending is philly's down fall?I hated to see John Stevens go but i do think Laviolette will help., and if we need to shake up the roster then do so.Players i would keep: Briere,Giroux,Richards,Powe,Betts,Carle ,- deal the rest of the under achieving cry-baby millionaires! This team is way to good to be playing this bad! Disgruntled Philly Fanatic
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Guest4271
( )

Posted - 01/14/2010 :  02:30:20  Reply with Quote
This is simple, don't do anything, Emery is back, give him his starts and now your off to the playoffs, where Emery has been to the finals. How about giving up a bunch of salary for Kovi, people have him traded to places like Toronto, so trade Carter Coburn, and couple draft picks, and make it a sign and trade. Philly gets rid of salary and potential trouble in locker room, and picks up Kovi for long term deal, sounds like a no brainer, and there is the shake up Philly needs
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Guest7886
( )

Posted - 01/14/2010 :  07:05:03  Reply with Quote
This is simple, don't do anything, Emery is back, give him his starts and now your off to the playoffs, where Emery has been to the finals.

The problem with that line of thinking is that Ottawa got to the finals in spite of Emery, not because of him.
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Guest6309
( )

Posted - 01/14/2010 :  10:53:22  Reply with Quote
Philly will be fine. Richards and Carter are elite players. Briere's not worth the dollars but is still better then alot of other forwards playing in the top 6. van Riemsdyk and Giroux are only going to get better. Gagne is always good when healthy and he should be fine for the rest of the year. He is due. I'm an Oil fan and I hate to still say Pronger is a arguably one of the best D in the league. The guy is the whole package (leadership, Cannon, Size, and Defensive ability). Carles play is speaking for itself. Timmonen is always realiable. If Coburn still keeps s***tin the bed they got great D prospects to step up next year, like Parent. Players like Betts, Lapierre, Powe, and Carcillo are awesome bottom six forwards. There's a nice mix of Skill penalty killing, Grit, and leadership. No one should knocking Leighton, even though he's played 11 games, his numbers are impressive, and he was for free. Emery is a good goalie no wants to see that cause of crap he pulled ending up on tsn. He's not the end all be all but he'd be a great goalie for any team to split the work load.

All in all the Philly 2010 season rollar coaster will and is already starting to go back up, worst comes to worst they can trade a draft pick or prospect at the deadline and pick up a Halak or another decent forward. Looking forward to see Philly contend for the cup.

By the way Toronto fans, you have some crappy years ahead of you. jump on the Philly band wagon.
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