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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
 Posted - 01/21/2010 : 08:25:40
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Poll Question:
Who is your mid-season Hart Trophy winner?
brentrock2
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Edited by - willus3 on 01/23/2010 09:06:07
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 08:48:13
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It will come close with Gaborik, Sedin and Miller but first I have to say Miller. He is having an outstanding year so far and I think he will keep it like that. Gaborik is also a very talented player, scores alot but Miller deserves it more. Sedin is so far the most in points this year so far 70 points! Next is Ovechkin with 65!! But overall I have to go with Miller, he has 5 SO - tied with 2nd with bryzgalov and vokoun, has an GAA of 1.99 - 1st in the league, has an save percentage of 0.936 - 1st in the league and has 27 wins - 3rd in the league.
HABS RULE!!
brentrock2 |
Edited by - brentrock2 on 01/21/2010 08:49:17 |
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Guest8605
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Posted - 01/21/2010 : 08:51:03
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| I hope a goalie doesn't win it. Let them win the Vezina. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 09:23:16
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I'm always of the mind that goalies shouldn't be in the running for this award, as it's too difficult to compare them with the other players . . . but Brodeur and Miller have been amazing, with the edge going to Miller so far.
So, that being said, I voted Crosby. It is only as a result of his huge increase in scoring goals that the Pens haven't suffered a Stanley Cup hangover, and he's done it with absolutely zero help from his linemates, whoever they may be on any given night, and Malkin hasn't helped out much either.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 09:56:48
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My vote goes to Ovie. The fact that he is second in league scoring and missed 8 games is phenominal. Also his game has improved this year and he's playing realyl well with most of his linemates (mostly Backtrom, Semin, Green, Knuble). The guy inspries his team to greatness. I attribute Washington's status as the highest scoring team in the league to Ovechkin's influence. Even if he's not the one scoring all the time.
Second place vote goes to Henrik Sedin or Crosby
Third place take your pick of Brodeur, Miller, Keith, Thornton, Marleau, Kane, Kovalchuk, Anderson or most of the other guys on that list
I don't see Gaborik getting it unless he steps up his game and gets some more help from the rest of his team. He had a strong start but he cannot dominate a game the way most of the others on this list can.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
Edited by - HawkinOilCountry on 01/21/2010 10:00:05 |
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 10:01:23
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Also why is Plekanec on this list? He's not even Montreal's MVP let alone the league's.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 10:28:56
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I am puzzled about the results of this poll . . . not necessarily that Thornton could be leading it - I suppose he could - but for Miller, Brodeur, Ovechkin, Crosby, Gaborik to be so far behind him is beyond belief.
Thornton is a very skilled player, don't get me wrong - he's consistently top ten. But he is playing with Heatley and Marleau, who we both know are very good goalscorers on their own, no? Why all the love for Thornton?
Or has this poll been hijacked?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 10:46:58
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Poll's been hi-jacked. Two hours ago Henrik Sedin was leading with 12 votes or something like that
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 12:06:04
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| Usually I dont pick a goalie, but for me its hands down Miller. Buffalo was suppose to be on the outside looking in from the playoffs not fighting for 1st in the east. Watched a few games and the team is good not great but Miller is outstanding 95% of the time. He's ranked in the top 3 for all goalie stats, only goalie close is Nabokov and his team is superior to Miller's. I could see an arguement for Thorton but not a strong one like Sedin, Ovie, Crosby and Gaborik, who are putting similar numbers up with less supporting players. |
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Guest9836
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 12:37:04
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Brodeur and Miller have fairly similar supporting casts and are each tops in different categories (Miller in terms of %'s and Brodeur W's and SO's). I think they will both have a shot at MVP and will fight it out for the Vezina.
Comparison, Forwards:
Parise (48pts), Langenbrunner (41), Zajac (37), Bergfors (27), Elias (injured, 26), Rolston (25), Clarkson (15)
vs
Connolly (46pts), Roy (36), Pominville (35), Vanek (31), Hecht (25), Stafford (25)
I really don't know who has the edge, Elias' injury is sort of equal to Vanek's bad year, but the skill level is similar overall.
Defence:
Greene (24pts), White (10), Salvador (9), Mottau (6), Fraser (4), Oduya (2), Martin (injured, 2)
vs
Myers (28), Butler (18), Montador (14), Tallinder (12), Rivet (12), Lydman (10), Sekera (6)
Again it's a toss up, these are largely unheralded defence corps with not one big name between the two teams.
With the above teams infront of them I don't see how they could be less important to their teams than say Thornton (who has Boyle, Heatley, Marleau, Nabokov, etc), Ovechkin (who has Semin, Backstrom, Green, etc), Henrik Sedin (who has 3 other players with 40+pts including Daniel, and Luongo), etc.
The Hart has to go to one of these two guys or Gaborik if he can bring the Rangers to the post season (he's involved in 45% of his team's offence, 21% of their goals, that's 1 in every 5, to compare to the great Ovechkin who has 16% of his team's goals) |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 12:37:47
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Ya, I would have to agree with Miller. The Sabres give up the 6th most shots a night and they team is 3rd overall in goals against/game. That's pretty impressive in itself. Let;s add in that Buffalo has been in the top 5 teams in the league for pretty much the entire season and NO ONE is giving them any credit.
However, I also agree that the HART should go to Forwards not goalies or defensemen. Goalies already have the Vezina. Defensemen have the Norris. What do the forwards in the league have???
If I had to pick a skater, it would be Crosby and Ovechkin. I can't pick between the two. Speaking with a bias, I would take Crosby as I can't stand Ovechkin. But one can't deny his talents or what he brings to his team. |
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Guest9668
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 19:20:28
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Beans hating Ovechkin, what a surprise... Too bad he has more points than Crosby and has played 8 less games.... Not to mention Was is ahead of Pittsburgh in the standings despite having mediocre to bad goaltending.
MVP obviously has to be Miller- would Buffalo even be in the playoffs without him? No chance. Take Crosby or Ovechkin off of their teams and they are still in the playoff hunt. If Buffalo slows down and the Rangers make the playoffs- Gaborik should win the Hart |
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Statman
Rookie
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 04:11:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
However, I also agree that the HART should go to Forwards not goalies or defensemen. Goalies already have the Vezina. Defensemen have the Norris. What do the forwards in the league have???
Um, the Art Ross and the Rocket Richard. That's two by my count. Valuable is valuable, no matter what the position. My bigger concern when it comes to deciding an MVP has always been "Most Valuable To His Team" versus "Most Valuable To The League" ( ie, best overall season). There can be a big difference there.
The points that have been made about Ryan Miller are sure swinging my vote, though. |
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Guest2763
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Posted - 01/23/2010 : 06:12:44
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As a Rangers fan, it's been pretty impressive what Marian Gaborik has done over the first half of the season. He's cooled down lately goal scoring wise, yet his still responsible for over 25% of the Rangers total goals scored.
That said, he's not even the MVP of his own team, that title belongs to Henrik Lundqvist. Lundqvist has been nothing short of brilliant this season, and the last 2 months in particular are probably the best i've ever seen him play. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 08:47:10
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A few things:
1) As a moderator I can't fix this poll . . . is there any way to correct it, so that (I am guessing here) all the false votes for Thornton are taken away? My guess is that it is just a bunch of "ghost votes", as only 9 members have voted, and usually it's about 1 to 1 guests/members, 1:2 at the most if it's not on the front page.
2) guest 9836 - very solid points made, it is damn close between Brodeur and Miller. Edge would have to go to Miller just because of where we all thought Buffalo and New Jersey were expected to be . . . NJ was supposed to be in one of the final playoff spots, Buffalo was usually picked to finish as a bottom feeder by most pundits, including myself. This Tyler Myers kid will be a big name in the future, but other than some rookie phenom I still scratch my head at that Sabres defence . .
3) I really don't like including goalies in MVP voting because I would think that most years, if actually voting for who is really most valuable to the team, 80% of all candidates would be goalies. They are the most important position, clearly, and should be separate from the rest of the team awards just like pitchers in baseball.
4) Thinking some more about it then, my mvp winner and two runner-ups:
1 Crosby, 2 Gaborik, 3 Ovechkin
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 09:08:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Statman
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
However, I also agree that the HART should go to Forwards not goalies or defensemen. Goalies already have the Vezina. Defensemen have the Norris. What do the forwards in the league have???
Um, the Art Ross and the Rocket Richard. That's two by my count. Valuable is valuable, no matter what the position. My bigger concern when it comes to deciding an MVP has always been "Most Valuable To His Team" versus "Most Valuable To The League" ( ie, best overall season). There can be a big difference there.
The points that have been made about Ryan Miller are sure swinging my vote, though.
You missed the point. There are two trophies in the NHL that are position specific MVP's. The Norris is the best all around defensemen and the Vezina is the best all around goalie. Why is there no award for best all around forward??
The Selke is position specific but it's for best defenseive forward, not best forward.
Every other trophy(Art Ross, Hart, Richard, Calder, Pearson, etc) can by won by any position.
My point was there is no best all around forward award.
Your count is wrong. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 09:15:31
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| My thoughts on why there is position specific awards in the first place is because a forward position is more glorified and forwards usually dominate awards as it is. Having a Vezina and Norris guarantees you see that position represented at the NHL awards show. I honestly feel that the best 2way forward should be recongized (Yserman Award) and the best offensive defenseman should be recongized (Orr/Coffey Award) |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 11:59:38
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His name is Steve YZerman. Not Steve YSerman.
I could care less if forwards often take most of the awards. I personlly disagree with having a Best Defensemen a best goalie, but not a best forward. But that's just me.
As far as changing the names of awards, there is established history there already, why change it?? |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 12:26:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
His name is Steve YZerman. Not Steve YSerman.
I could care less if forwards often take most of the awards. I personlly disagree with having a Best Defensemen a best goalie, but not a best forward. But that's just me.
As far as changing the names of awards, there is established history there already, why change it??
Right, Yzerman. And I guess the Selke covers best 2 way award. Is there an award for offensive defensmen. I thought the Norris was for best defensman overall, not offensive defenseman which is what a Orr/Coffey award would be.
I dont think the defenseman get enough credit in this league and we only celebrate one goaltender at the end of the year. |
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Guest2888
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Posted - 01/23/2010 : 13:38:23
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| i think it will be thornton because he plays on a line with marleau and heatley he sets them up and they score go sharks go |
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Statman
Rookie
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 14:01:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Every other trophy(Art Ross, Hart, Richard, Calder, Pearson, etc) can by won by any position.
My point was there is no best all around forward award.
Your count is wrong.
Let me check my count again. Art Ross has been handed out 60 times. 58 of those went to a forward. There have been 11 Richard trophy winners. 11 of them forwards. Yep, seems like those are forward awards to me. We are still waiting on that first goaltender scoring title, by the way.
I do understand what you are saying Beans. It's just that best overall forward is going to be either the guy that scores the most goals or the guy that scores the most points. Some years those will be the same guy and then he probably wins the Hart as well. We don't need to give him best forward, too.
If people want to make up a new award (and I don't know why because there are too many already) I think we need either a best defensive defensemen and leave the Norris as the point getting guy or vice versa with the creation of the aforementioned Orr/Coffey trophy as the offensive defenseman. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 14:29:12
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Let's keep it on track fellas.
The question is on who you think deserves the Hart trophy, right now.
If you want to start a discussion on the various trophies and how they should be assigned, start a new topic.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest2347
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Posted - 01/23/2010 : 15:13:38
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| this poll has definatly been hijacked for some fan of thornton? |
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Guest9836
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Posted - 01/25/2010 : 06:33:41
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Thanks Slozo, us guest posters are like Rodney Dangerfield...
But if as you suggest we were to avoid goalies in the Hart Conversation, than I go back to my first post:
1) Gaborik (if NY makes the playoffs, Gabby finishes with 20-25% of NY's goals with a terrible supporting cast)
2) Ovechkin (if they stay 1st in the East and Ovi continues the pace which would see him finish with 120 pts, 57 goals, +51)
3) Crosby (taking up the goal scoring duties, faceoff duties, etc)
4) Pronger (leading PHI into the playoffs, almost as many pts as Richards and Carter, +20 on a team were most guys are close to 0 or negative)
If there was an award for best team effort you'd be looking at Nashville, currently in the playoffs with their top 3 scorers all having only 30pts and a tandem goaltending situation |
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Who is your mid-season Hart Trophy winner? 
