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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1547 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2010 :  15:36:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Apperantly before the game where Carey Price dropped his gloves Andrei Markov told him that "He has no heart and if he's not gonna bring it stay home" What do you guys think?

CANUCKS RULE!!!

Guest0973
( )

Posted - 01/27/2010 :  15:42:29  Reply with Quote
It sounds like Markov is stepping into that leadership role he may not have wanted earlier. I wonder how that would affect the team in general though, those are some harsh words.
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redneck76ca
Rookie



186 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2010 :  15:54:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0973

It sounds like Markov is stepping into that leadership role he may not have wanted earlier. I wonder how that would affect the team in general though, those are some harsh words.


Its funny that this article came out today as I was talking to a fellow Habs fan yesterday about exactly this. It really seems that Price has being going through the motions this season and not showing the character you want to see from your starting goalie. Good on Markov to step into that role. Its time that he starts wearing the 'C'. Hopefully Carey will take this to heart and improve his spirit. If not, then it might be time for Gainey to take Halak over Price and move the enigmatic Price for whatever he can get. The irony here is that Price, who is supposed to be the "Next Thing" between the Montreal pipes, will not garner as much in return as the Halak, the guy that has been on the trade block for the last season and a half. From the games that I have watched I would much rather keep Halak and move Price.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2010 :  17:01:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's the TSN.ca report

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=307852

I don't know. I like this move my Markov. I still see Price as the future not Halak, but that's me peronally. The kid still has a .914 save percentage.

Maybe Markov needs to tell players in other positions to play with some heart too!

Bottom line, I like when players actually care enough about the job they have to call other out and hold them accountable. Maybe, if Markov has some time, he can have that conversation about 23 times in Edmonton then head down to Calgary for another 23 chats.
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
877 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2010 :  20:07:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It was actually after that game, which is odd, but non the less it seems to me like Price is tight in goal. He doesn't just let his arms and legs go, everything is always in half motion, with exception to his terrible five hole when moving lateral (Yes all goalies are more vunerable at this time, but this guy just has me sketching everytime).

Personally I think he just has to stop worrying about the competition. That is the big problem he doesn't play as well with someone looking over his shoulder. Price needs to just have fun out there, and play like everyone knows he can.

Then again has the Montreal media destroyed yet another star?
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  00:33:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by redneck76ca
The irony here is that Price, who is supposed to be the "Next Thing" between the Montreal pipes, will not garner as much in return as the Halak, the guy that has been on the trade block for the last season and a half. From the games that I have watched I would much rather keep Halak and move Price.



Have to disagree here. Price in my mind, would bring a bigger return than Halak. Yes, Halak's been good this year, but i still think the young Price would bring more back to the Habs if traded. There's teams out there who'd love to give the kid a chance outside of the pressure cooker of Montreal!
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Guest4785
( )

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  05:49:13  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Axey

It was actually after that game, which is odd, but non the less it seems to me like Price is tight in goal. He doesn't just let his arms and legs go, everything is always in half motion, with exception to his terrible five hole when moving lateral (Yes all goalies are more vunerable at this time, but this guy just has me sketching everytime).

Personally I think he just has to stop worrying about the competition. That is the big problem he doesn't play as well with someone looking over his shoulder. Price needs to just have fun out there, and play like everyone knows he can.

Then again has the Montreal media destroyed yet another star?



Actually, the Montreal media are always on Price side since he is with the team. They are (media) always saying that he is the future of Montreal and we should give him some time to get there...(It's been quite a while now don't you think?). When Halak make a save, it's luck and when it's Price it's a wonderful save by a great goalie. The RDS channel are always on Price side...sometimes it make me go crazy!!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4576 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  06:06:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guest 4785 - thanks for that . . . I was about to chime in that I have noticed that as well with Montreal writers - they more often praise Price than Halak, even though it could be argued that Halak is better (certainly more consistent).

Montreal and Toronto are really, really tough places to play for goalies, as the media and fans micro-manage every single thing that happens. Montreal was lucky that a guy like Roy could largely take it (before his ignoble departure), and in the past, Toronto was lucky to have a Cujo who could handle the heat as well. But it's a battle to keep your sanity when every single tiny misstep is cause for endless chatter about how you need to be traded.

From an outsider's point of view, I'd take Halak first, Price second. Close, but I'll take the slightly more consistent goalie with the cool demeanour.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest9836
( )

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  06:31:58  Reply with Quote
Man, teams give up on players so quickly now, I guess it's the nature of the business. But this is why teams often let goalies develop until their in their early/mid 20's, or at least used to. Nowadays it's one and done before you can legally drink...

Most of the steady year in year out goalies in the league have either been backups or had lots of time to develop:

Kiprusoff (3+ years europe, 2 years AHL, 2 years sharks backup)
Byzgalov (4 years AHL, 2 years ducks backup)
Backstrom (6+ years europe, 2 years split time in Min)
Miller (3 years AHL)
Lundqvist (2 years europe)
Vokoun (1 year ECHL, 2+ years AHL, backup in NSH 2+ years)
Nabokov (3+ years europe, 2+ years AHL)
Thomas (list of places he played is a mile long)
Turco (2 years IHL, 2+ years backup/splitting time in Dal)

You have to be a 1 in a decade talent like Brodeur or Roy to be able to make the leap in the NHL with minimal development and have consistent success. Otherwise you're going to have major growing pains like say Fleury (also spent 1+ years in the AHL).


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Guest8370
( )

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  07:07:31  Reply with Quote
Markov is right, Price has no heart...
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect



69 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  07:11:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Heart or no heart, there’s something wrong in his head right now. Maybe he can’t handle the pressure, the competition, etc…
He’s young, arrogant, spoiled, etc… and he NEVER had any (experienced) Habs goalie to guide him through entering the NHL, and worse – guide him through the very political “process” in the Habs dressing room.
He was immediately thrown in there, as #1 for the Habs… that’s way too young and absolutely the worse environment to do this under.

Here are some stats to ponder:

Halak:
06/07: 16 games - 2.89 GA with .906
07/08: 6 games – 2.11 GA with .934
08/09: 34 games – 2.88 GA with .915
09/10: 24 games – 2.43 GA with .930

Fleury:
03/04: 22 games – 3.64 GA with .896
05/06: 50 games – 3.25 GA with .898
06/07: 67 games - 2.83 GA with .906
07/08: 35 games – 2.33 GA with .921
08/09: 62 games – 2.67 GA with .912
09/10: 42 games – 2.59 GA with .910

Price:
07/08: 41 games – 2.56 GA with .920
08/09: 52 games – 2.83 GA with .905
09.10: 33 games – 2.73 GA with .910

Notice how “slow” Halak got to play more games over the years while more or less staying consistent with his stats.

Notice how “slow” Fleury got to become #1 over even more years. After the 06/07 season, he was even playing fewer games than the season before. That’s a sign of good coaching for a young rising star.

Finally – look how immediate Price was expected to be #1. Half the season in his first year, even more the next. And yet – his stats are right up there with our reigning Stanley Cup Champion and Canadian Olympian.

So, yes – he’s all that people say… spoiled, arrogant, no heart… but these are attitude issues, which are “fixable”. To fix this, Habs need a stronger coach with more attitude than Price. Habs do not need Halak, they need a solid, proven backup to Price who knows his job will be to backup, and coach the YOUNG and soon to be STAR…

Burke should think about doing the same with the monster… before it’s too late.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  08:06:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9836

Man, teams give up on players so quickly now, I guess it's the nature of the business. But this is why teams often let goalies develop until their in their early/mid 20's, or at least used to. Nowadays it's one and done before you can legally drink...

Most of the steady year in year out goalies in the league have either been backups or had lots of time to develop:

Kiprusoff (3+ years europe, 2 years AHL, 2 years sharks backup)
Byzgalov (4 years AHL, 2 years ducks backup)
Backstrom (6+ years europe, 2 years split time in Min)
Miller (3 years AHL)
Lundqvist (2 years europe)
Vokoun (1 year ECHL, 2+ years AHL, backup in NSH 2+ years)
Nabokov (3+ years europe, 2+ years AHL)
Thomas (list of places he played is a mile long)
Turco (2 years IHL, 2+ years backup/splitting time in Dal)

You have to be a 1 in a decade talent like Brodeur or Roy to be able to make the leap in the NHL with minimal development and have consistent success. Otherwise you're going to have major growing pains like say Fleury (also spent 1+ years in the AHL).






Very nice research here. I am quite surprised to see Vokoun had played a season in the ECHL, i'd never heard mention of this before?
They often say that goalies don't develop until their late 20's. I'd hate to see the habs deal off Price and have him turn out to be a star a couple years down the road?

To guest4785, NO, i don't think "it's been quite a while now". Price is still so young, they really need to be patient.
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Guest9836
( )

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  08:26:31  Reply with Quote
Thanks Alex.

And to your point about Price being so young, I fully agree. He's 22 and at this age even today's best goalies were still honing their trade overseas or in the AHL. He'd likely be in his 3rd year of domination in the AHL right now, Halak/Huet would have held the fort, and then he could've come in with confidence and experience playing with men.

7752, I like the comparison to Fleury. If you throw the guy in there young expect some pain. But the Fleury example shows what patience and development can lead too.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  08:56:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm fully on board with the M A Fleury comparison as well. I was not high on this kid a few years back and figured he may never develop into much of a starter. Wow, what a difference patience makes huh? The Pens were fortunate to be able to grow with him as well as their other young stars but it does show you what can happen. By no means am i saying Price is a sure thing and he could yet prove to be a bust, but if i'm in charge, i'd be keeping him around for the foreseeable future!
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Guest2622
( )

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  09:35:28  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9836

Thanks Alex.

And to your point about Price being so young, I fully agree. He's 22 and at this age even today's best goalies were still honing their trade overseas or in the AHL. He'd likely be in his 3rd year of domination in the AHL right now, Halak/Huet would have held the fort, and then he could've come in with confidence and experience playing with men.

7752, I like the comparison to Fleury. If you throw the guy in there young expect some pain. But the Fleury example shows what patience and development can lead too.



Except for the fact that Huet was a UFA.

Its obvious that Price is having some issues, but he hasn't gotten alot of help along the way either. Remeber, he was getting peppered for 40+shots a game for what? 5-6 games in a row? I know Halak has had the same issue, and the shots have come down a little, but you couldn't blame either goalie for displaying a little shell-shock.

I cringe when I hear people wanting to give up on a 22 year old that plays a position notorious for its late bloomers. Personally, if they can swing it, I would prefer they keep both. As both are RFA's, the habs are in the drivers seat. Qualify them both, get the right to match, or get the draft picks.


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Odin
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
350 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  09:37:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry, wasn't signed in

Except for the fact that Huet was a UFA.

Its obvious that Price is having some issues, but he hasn't gotten alot of help along the way either. Remeber, he was getting peppered for 40+shots a game for what? 5-6 games in a row? I know Halak has had the same issue, and the shots have come down a little, but you couldn't blame either goalie for displaying a little shell-shock.

I cringe when I hear people wanting to give up on a 22 year old that plays a position notorious for its late bloomers. Personally, if they can swing it, I would prefer they keep both. As both are RFA's, the habs are in the drivers seat. Qualify them both, get the right to match, or get the draft picks.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4576 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  10:01:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to guest 9836 and Seventy7Fifty2 for the stats and research . . . I can't believe it but I might be agreeing with 7752 for once: Burke needs to get a proven goalie who can be a solid back-up, and is able to step in as a starter if need be.

Funny, but both Montreal and Toronto need a guy like Turco. Montreal has a nice piece to deal away in Halak, see as he is a UFA, and they can get good return on him (cough Philly cough). Then they can get Turco as a mentor and solid back-up.

I'd rather see Toronto get Turco to help Gustavsson after Toskala gets dealt for a spare tire . . . but that's for another thread.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  11:22:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, did you mean Halak is a RFA? I thought that's what was said earlier? Pretty sure he's restricted?
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redneck76ca
Rookie



186 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  19:25:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Slozo, did you mean Halak is a RFA? I thought that's what was said earlier? Pretty sure he's restricted?


I have not given up on Price but with Halak being an RFA at the end of this season and Price in the same boat at the end of the following season, somebody needs to move. I'd love to go back to the way things were with Roy and Hayward, but these days starting goalies play more games and there isn't enough ice for both of them. The Habs will be having cap issues next year and both Halak and Price will be getting significantly more than the 750K and 2.2 million that they earn this year. To re-sign both to raises simply won't work especially if you factor in wanting to retain Plekanec's services who will also see a raise.

I think that Gainey made a huge error in throwing Price into the number one role so early in his career. I thought he was ready at first but it has come apparent that he needed more time to develop in the mental aspect of the game. He is young and very skilled and I think will be a solid goalie in the NHL but he is not there yet and may need a change of scenery to get there. Look at how many Habs that have been traded to go on and do great things elsewhere, or atleast have their career rejuvenated. Sometimes getting out of Montreal (and Toronto) is exactly what the career doctor ordered.

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Guest4271
( )

Posted - 01/28/2010 :  23:37:17  Reply with Quote
Price is done in Montreal.........Gainey has ruined him, however, if they were smart, keep both goalies and get a NEW GM
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
350 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2010 :  09:46:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just don't see how much of a raise Price is going to command with his current inconsistencies.
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2010 :  10:28:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4271

Price is done in Montreal.........Gainey has ruined him, however, if they were smart, keep both goalies and get a NEW GM


7752 -

You should put this guy in his place, he thinks Bob "God" Gainey should be fired!!!

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2010 :  10:38:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by redneck76ca

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Slozo, did you mean Halak is a RFA? I thought that's what was said earlier? Pretty sure he's restricted?


I have not given up on Price but with Halak being an RFA at the end of this season and Price in the same boat at the end of the following season, somebody needs to move. I'd love to go back to the way things were with Roy and Hayward, but these days starting goalies play more games and there isn't enough ice for both of them. The Habs will be having cap issues next year and both Halak and Price will be getting significantly more than the 750K and 2.2 million that they earn this year. To re-sign both to raises simply won't work especially if you factor in wanting to retain Plekanec's services who will also see a raise.

I think that Gainey made a huge error in throwing Price into the number one role so early in his career. I thought he was ready at first but it has come apparent that he needed more time to develop in the mental aspect of the game. He is young and very skilled and I think will be a solid goalie in the NHL but he is not there yet and may need a change of scenery to get there. Look at how many Habs that have been traded to go on and do great things elsewhere, or atleast have their career rejuvenated. Sometimes getting out of Montreal (and Toronto) is exactly what the career doctor ordered.



Im not taking a shot at you or your team here, but could you quote an example of a player struggling early in his career in Montreal who improved elsewhere with a change in local. I can't seem to think of an example of an impressive prospect who underperformed in Montreal to go on to a be a superstar elsewhere.
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Guest9124
( )

Posted - 01/29/2010 :  11:15:54  Reply with Quote
quote:
Im not taking a shot at you or your team here, but could you quote an example of a player struggling early in his career in Montreal who improved elsewhere with a change in local. I can't seem to think of an example of an impressive prospect who underperformed in Montreal to go on to a be a superstar elsewhere.




I did not look into it very much but two players that come to mind is 1- John Leclair who had very good seasons in Philadelphia and 2- Mike Ribeiro is having success statistically in the last 2-3 years even though I would not call him a superstar but I'd rather have him in Montreal instead of having traded him for Janne Niinima I beleive
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2010 :  11:58:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok those 2 qualify. I really couldn't think of a prospect prior to your example. Usually find that Montreal develops talent well or imports talent well. When a player is tossed by Montreal I think of it as a live grenade with a faulty timer most of the time, your not certain if it will go off in your face. Chelios was the closest I could come up with on my own but he seemed to perform well while in Montreal.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2010 :  16:20:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chelios def wouldn't qualify, however, Jyrki Lumme might? He went on to some productive years here in Vancouver. I don't recall the circumstances for his departure from Montreal though?
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect



69 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2010 :  16:44:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[/quote]
7752 -

You should put this guy in his place, he thinks Bob "God" Gainey should be fired!!!

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
[/quote]
Mr. Roberts, I said I would not respond to you any longer in another forum.
If I were to respond, however, I only said Gainey "wins" over Burke ANYTIME - ANYDAY....
YOU said Gainey is God.
As bad as Gainey seems to you, he is always better than that moron you love and will soon chase out of Toronto like you did with EVERY other GM...
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