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 Buyers or Sellers at this years deadline Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2308 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2015 :  13:48:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thought I'd ask thought on the buyers and sellers at this years deadline. I think we all agree Toronto, Edmonton, Pheonix and Buffalo are this years sellers. Who else is selling and who might be available.

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2308 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2015 :  14:00:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd start with my team which is both a buyer and a seller. I'd like to say sell, but I think Murray wants to tinker more than sell off assets at this point. I would like to see Anderson shopped, see what the market is for Michalek, Neil and Phillips. Assuming Anderson is shopped, I think a team like the Oilers would be a good fit who don't have a true #1 goalie and are reportedly interested in moving Petry and possibly Fasth. Don't think it would be a far stretch to assume Anderson is worth both Petry and Fasth, but if a draft pick was required say in the 2nd round or 3-4th line player, it would be worth it in my opinion. Ottawa thinks Lehner is going to be a number 1 and I think Fasth is better than what he is in Edmonton. Might be a better tandom Fasth/Lehner to push Lehner into either earning the number 1 or redeeming Fasth. Im a big fan of proving a goalies worth by tandom, as I think one usually plays the other out of position. Petry would fit in great in Ottawa which has young talent on defense, but struggling possession wise.

It wouldn't matter if this was a push for playoffs now as Anderson has been off injured or pieces for next years run. Either way the window to trade and bring back worth on Anderson is closing and Edmonton would be a good fit based on there needs for the future to turn the corner.
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n/a
deleted



4809 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2015 :  05:13:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Leafs are sellers obviously, and it's open for business.

Franson and Santorelli are gone, and Winnik will be gone soon too (UFA), and it's nearly a guarantee that at least one more deal gets done, I think. We just have too many pieces we are willing to deal for the right price, and there are so many teams in the West especially looking for that extra edge.

In terms of likelihood to be dealt before the deadline after Winnik, I'd say it's:
Bozak
Phaneuf
Gardiner
Kessel



Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3670 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2015 :  20:53:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I hope neither.

VAN is not in a position to seriously challenge in the west even with a few additions, and I don't want to see them sacrifice their future for a pipe dream. On the other hand, they have a good looking youth movement going and a generally good team, so I don't really want them to get rid of anyone either. There are no glaring "should be traded" players, and no bad contracts or pending UFA's that cannot be re-signed, that would be likely to bring serious value back.

The team can get better, but the types of moves they need to make are off-season moves, not trade deadline ones. They'll go a round or two in the post season, get the youth some experience, and then see where we are in the summer.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



6113 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2015 :  08:46:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd be ok with Vancouver making a small move or two, even if it meant picking up a draft pick or two. I could see a guy like Brad Richardson having some appeal to a playoff team and he may not be needed here with the emergence of some of the other guys, plus they youngsters coming up. It's a numbers game, and I don't see him being here long term. May as well get a pick for him?

Otherwise, I'm in agreement nuxfan, that there shouldn't be any big moves at this point in time, unless of course you get an offer you can't refuse.
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n/a
deleted



4809 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2015 :  06:08:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

I hope neither.

VAN is not in a position to seriously challenge in the west even with a few additions, and I don't want to see them sacrifice their future for a pipe dream. On the other hand, they have a good looking youth movement going and a generally good team, so I don't really want them to get rid of anyone either. There are no glaring "should be traded" players, and no bad contracts or pending UFA's that cannot be re-signed, that would be likely to bring serious value back.

The team can get better, but the types of moves they need to make are off-season moves, not trade deadline ones. They'll go a round or two in the post season, get the youth some experience, and then see where we are in the summer.



Ok, that's fair enough, but here's a scenario:

The Canucks, with Miller out and while trending downwards, begin to fall out of the playoff picture after the next 2 games, either hanging on to 8th spot or just out. What do you do then?

The Sedins aren't getting younger, and will trend downwards going forward.
You still haven't replaced Kesler as a second line scoring threat.
You are getting very thin on D with injuries that you couldn't afford.

Isn't it time to add at least one significant piece?
And . . . with a few decent scorers available (Kessel is one of them, but there are others less pricy as well) . . . will you want to make that deal? Don't you need to shore up your D now?

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2308 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2015 :  14:30:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On the topic of Vancouver, why aren't they mentioned as a possible destination for Vermette? His type is generally the player Vancouver looks for at this time of the year. They are in good playoff positioning with a big need for secondary scoring and Depth at Center. The fact Vermette is a good 2way player with speed should make him front and center on there wish list. Am I missing something?
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2308 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2015 :  14:38:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They reason I bring up Vermette is because of his versatility. Having watch him play in Ottawa, I can attest this guy is good on any line in any forward position and an upgrade to any teams Penalty Kill. Its why I want Ottawa to take a 2nd shot at him. I like him about as much as I like Fisher in Nashville. 2 guys with which I wish Ottawa had found a way to make lifer's.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



6113 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2015 :  17:28:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Ok, that's fair enough, but here's a scenario:

The Canucks, with Miller out and while trending downwards, begin to fall out of the playoff picture after the next 2 games, either hanging on to 8th spot or just out. What do you do then?

The Sedins aren't getting younger, and will trend downwards going forward.
You still haven't replaced Kesler as a second line scoring threat.
You are getting very thin on D with injuries that you couldn't afford.

Isn't it time to add at least one significant piece?
And . . . with a few decent scorers available (Kessel is one of them, but there are others less pricy as well) . . . will you want to make that deal? Don't you need to shore up your D now?

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!



Slozo....I know this was directed at nuxfan, but i'll throw in my 1.5cents worth (Canadian dollar is down, therefore only 1.5 cents! )

I don't think, nor have I all season, that this team can compete with the teams in the west come playoff time. As much as I think Lack and Markstrom can keep us in 8th, I can just as easily see us dropping out of a playoff spot. Even if we do get in as the 8th seed, our chances of upsetting the top seed are extremely slim <insert the masses saying "yeah, but LA was an 8 seed, so was Edm a number of years back.....> ! IMO, there's no way this team is making a deep playoff run, therefore, why mortgage ANY of your future for a rental??? Vermette might fit here in Van and Bonino could find his early season touch, but it's still likely not enough. The Sedins aren't going anywhere and will eventually form a good second line, but the Canucks need more time for the development of Horvat, Shinkaruk, Virtanen, etc and more time to see what some other guys have to offer as they grow, such as Gaunce, Vey, McCann, Demko, Corrado, etc.
Personally, I just don't see the need to sell off any future asset for a rental, UNLESS, they're confident they can sign whoever it is to a deal which would keep them here for a few years more?

Benning had a great comment the other day, something along the lines of "Just getting some of the 9 regulars currently hurt back in the lineup will make it feel like we made a deadline move!". It make me think he's not got a whole lot up his sleeve come deadline day. But I could be wrong.....?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3670 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2015 :  21:00:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Ok, that's fair enough, but here's a scenario:

The Canucks, with Miller out and while trending downwards, begin to fall out of the playoff picture after the next 2 games, either hanging on to 8th spot or just out. What do you do then?

The Sedins aren't getting younger, and will trend downwards going forward.
You still haven't replaced Kesler as a second line scoring threat.
You are getting very thin on D with injuries that you couldn't afford.

Isn't it time to add at least one significant piece?
And . . . with a few decent scorers available (Kessel is one of them, but there are others less pricy as well) . . . will you want to make that deal? Don't you need to shore up your D now?

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!



My first question back is, at what cost? My second question back is, to what end?

It seems that the players they may want to add are in relatively high demand, and are commanding a premium. Couple that with the fact that VAN is more than a piece away from seriously contending in the west, they would probably have to shell out a significant amount of future to acquire bits. For the first time in many years, there is a reason to feel positive about the prospect bucket for the Canucks, and I sincerely hope they don't piss it away on a few rentals.

Treble that with the fact that, deep down, I think management knows they're not ready to seriously compete. They are capable of beating CHI/ANA/STL/LAK/NSH in a game, but over a 7 game series I don't think they can do it - never mind the inevitable path through 3 of them to get to the finals. Make some deadline deals, and you may get them to go 2 rounds instead of 1, but what does it mean to your prospect base going forward? Are fans any happier?

I think VAN will squeak in this year - despite missing 3 of their top-4 dmen, 2/3 of their second line, and their starting goalie, they've been playing great hockey lately. As Alex says, once you get all of them back in time for the playoffs, who knows what can happen.

The Sedin's aren't getting younger, but I think management is already looking at the landscape beyond their contracts and they like what they see. No credible second line centre this year, but I think its Horvat's position to lose come next training camp, he's been everything they could have hoped for so far - he'll become a Kesler before long. When the D is healthy they're one of the better groups in the west, and provide a solid chance to win every night. And Kessel - no thanks.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3670 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2015 :  21:05:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

On the topic of Vancouver, why aren't they mentioned as a possible destination for Vermette? His type is generally the player Vancouver looks for at this time of the year. They are in good playoff positioning with a big need for secondary scoring and Depth at Center. The fact Vermette is a good 2way player with speed should make him front and center on there wish list. Am I missing something?



Great player, and would love to see him in a VAN uniform. But:

1) UFA next season, so no guarantee that he'll stay with whatever team gets him
2) every contender seems to want him right now, so the price will be high if he leaves ARI
3) reportedly seeking a 6yr/33-35M contract next year, which is steep for a 32 year old player. VAN likely could not afford that

He'll be a great addition to a team that is legitimately contending, and then will got to the highest bidder in the offseason.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



6113 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2015 :  10:14:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't want to call Vermette over rated, but he kinda is. He's that deadline day "prize", or at least one of them? Someone will overpay in hopes he's that missing piece! The Canucks are just not a Vermette away from being a serious contender!

Let someone else take this guy on......
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2308 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2015 :  10:59:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
See I disagree. I'd say his whole career he has been kinda underrated and is now starting to get on teams radars. In Ottawa he was only a 3rd-4th liner, 2 way player who seen ice time mostly on the penalty kill or as an injury replacement and played in all forward positions. That's not a knock on his skill, but due to the depth Ottawa had at forward at that time. Even then he was a standout because his stats were excellent for how he was being deployed.

In Columbus his stats went up with ice time, but he was playing with an anemic offense and system that stifled offense, yet he had career numbers because he started getting top 6 ice time. In Phoenix he is again playing with an anemic offense and system with less talent around him than he had in Columbus, yet he is again having decent stats, his career numbers are 20-25 goals and +/- 50 points now, with a career year in Columbus at 27 goals and 65 points. .

Give this guy a decent team, say Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal, which doesn't stifle offense and I'd say his potential is 25-30 goals 65-75 points in a top 6 role. Give him to Pittsburgh, Washington etc of the better offensive teams and his potential might be higher. $5-$5.5 million for a guy for those stats and potential doesn't seem that bad, while locking him up from 32-38 is not a bad thing either. He is comparable to a Moulson, maybe Vanek. But unlike those guys he instantly upgrades the penalty kill and bring a 2way play to his game better than his comparable. Basically I wish he would come back to Ottawa, as he would fit in nicely in a top 6 role, but any team would be lucky to have him.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8286 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2015 :  11:32:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It think that's a bit of an over assessment on Vermette. I think he s a legit 2nd line forward with an above average defensive side. He has been a 0.5 pts/game guy for basically his entire career. He's also 32 yrs old. Not long in the tooth but his best days are more likely to be behind him than in front if him. If you say 50-55 pts 20ish goal potential with the ability to play on PP and PK I would agree.

I do agree with the value as a legit, 2nd line centre in the league today is going for about $5 mil. There may be a few teams willing to over pay a free agent so he might get $5.5. The question I would have with Vermette is term. If I am GM and am making the call, I would give him $17.5 over 3 or $21 over 4. I would not go more than that.

Vermette is in a group of players that are very valuable to a team but are not valued in the minds of fans. But to say he has 70 pt potential at this point in his career is a stretch. Most players don't have their best seasons in their 30's.


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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2308 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2015 :  21:38:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was wondering if you were around Beans. Havent had you comment in a while. I agree with the assessment for 20ish goals and 50 ish points is he stays in a Phoenix like team, but if he signs in Pittsburgh with Malkin or Crosby or in Washington with Backstrom or Ovechkin, dont you think he could at least match his career totals from Columbus at 25 goals and 65 points, maybe even peak a bit above. That's all I meant. These are the teams most are speculating for him and now with Kane out in Chicago, they are speculated to also have interest in him. That's another team which for which a guy like Vermette might have a career year. But if you disagree and think he will continue his career average which are pretty enimic offensive teams, I wont argue it. Its just a hunch.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8286 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2015 :  11:29:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Still around just very selective of my comments. I am not interested in getting as involved in the squabbles as I once was.

As far as Vermette goes, the reason I say he doesn't get much better is that a) he would not be a first line centre on most teams and b) he is over the age of 30.

Using your analogy of Pittsburgh, he would be 3rd line centre behind Malkin and Crosby and not only get limited miniutes but also likely play all PK and rarely get and PP. He would need to play with a stud winger and get lots of PP time to get the kind of numbers you are suggesting.

Still a $5 million player for the right term but not much more than a 50 pt guy. But you are also not paying a guy like him on points alone. He brings a lot more to the table than just points, which is why he is worth the money.


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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2308 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2015 :  12:06:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Glad your back to commenting.

I was thinking Vermette would end up as a winger on the top 6 when needed or in game, during the season and as a center during post season run mostly when they needed to spread the offense out. That's his big plus mark. This guy can plug any hole.
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