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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1877 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  13:19:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You know as much as Ovechkins being ridden by the media in the East it might be the right time for a move. One over paid contract for another. I'd actually suggest Loungo's is more team friendly than if Ovechkin continue's to be a bust. Change of location and maybe he starts producing again. Loungo would not fix all of Washington's woe's. To be honest he might not even affect there win losses, all that much, as there is something terribly wrong in Washington right now. But at least they can say, here one problem fixed, now onto the next. Now imagine the line of Sedins and Ovechkin if he regains his form.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  13:28:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not against having OV on a line with the Sedin's, and agree that a change in scenery might be good for him. VAN simply can't afford that contract. OV's cap hit is 9.6M a season, VAN is currently 800K under the cap, and then have to trim another 6M off their payroll in the summer. Without shifting a bunch of other pieces, I don't know how they could do it this year, never mind next.

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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  13:34:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
slightly off topic, but I do wonder if WSH is not considering buying OV out as an amnesty move this summer. Especially if his most recent performance is the norm and not the exception.

WSH has 11 players under contract next season for 64M. They need to add another 11 players, and still lose 500K in cap hit. I don't know how they're going to do that with OV eating up nearly 10M in space.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  14:23:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hmmm, 5th in the NHL in goals and people are talking about a buyout. Are you kidding???

Sure, Ovechkin is not scoring 60+ a season and not likely meeting the expectation of his contract, but why dump him off?? Dude is 27 yrs old, has more goals than any player in his generation at this point in his career, and is still a game changing player. No way on earth that Washington moves out Ovechkin let alone for a goalie with one of the ugliest contracts in the NHL who has no intention to playing more than the next 2-3 seasons.

Wow.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  17:45:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
doh, my bad - I was reading capgeek wrong, WSH actually has 20M in cap space to sign 11 players...in that case, they should be OK to keep OV.

@Beans - if they were indeed up against the cap with the numbers I thought they were, I think buying out OV would have been one of their only options - like it or not.

NOTE (posted after) - a trade also a viable route of course, but I'm assuming that they would not be able to trade OV for zero salary back, and would still be in a similar situation.

I would also argue that OV's contract is no less ugly than Luongo's, save for a cap hit that is closer to his actual salary. In a 64M cap world, 10M a year on a single player handicaps your ability to fill out a competitive team. Especially if your 10M player is not giving you 10M worth of effort.

Edited by - nuxfan on 02/04/2013 21:25:23
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Guest7562
( )

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  21:49:32  Reply with Quote
Ya I don't think Washington ever moves OV unless its the Rick Nash trade on steroids
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2013 :  07:09:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If there is a cause for concern in Washington it stems from one Nik Backstrom. This guy is an anomaly. Three seasons ago we were making the arguement as one of the best playmakers/players in hockey and now the guy looks like he is lost out there and cant even make passes.

Eating his contract or shipping him out of town is a route the caps may look to explore but Ovechkin will stay put.

Back on topic: With Luongo starting last night MG is either going with the mindset that we make Luongo look good and than ship him out of town while his value is higher than it would normally be or I think Schneider is getting moved in the next couple weeks

Every journey begins with a single step.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2013 :  08:19:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I still don't think Luongo goes anywhere, at least not this season. I know it's really really but 1/4 of the way through the season and many could argue that he has won back his starting job. Luongo is near the top of the league in GAA and save % while Schneider has looked a lot more like a back up goalie than a starter.

Not only that, but there is clearly no market for Luongo and certainly not for what Gillis seems to be holding out for.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2013 :  10:15:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The goalie situation in VAN is officially up in the air. I'd like to say I have some confidence where this will end up, but I don't. It certainly hasn't played out like anyone thought it would.

The smart money still says that Luongo gets traded and they keep Schneider - this year or in the summer. From a team building and cap health POV over the long term, it is the best decision for VAN to make. Management have publicly made statements crowing Schneider as the #1, and are openly exploring trades for Luongo - honestly, I'm not sure how you backtrack from that stance at this point.

That being said, the landscape has changed, Luongo seems to have risen above the circus found some humility through all of this, and it seems to have changed his game. Perhaps VAN management is now thinking they can get better return for the younger, cheaper Schneider, and they ride Luongo for the next 5 years and groom the even-younger-but-promising Eddie Lack to take over.

I'll be curious to see how Schneider plays in his first game back - I'm pretty sure they're going to go with him in MIN, its about time they did, and Luongo does not play well in that building. I don't agree that Schneider has looked like a backup - he's only played 3 games so far this year, and if you take out the very bad first game of the year he's played very well, a SO vs ANA and a loss vs a white hot SJ team.
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markliso
Top Prospect



Canada
60 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2013 :  06:55:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan


That being said, the landscape has changed, Luongo seems to have risen above the circus found some humility through all of this, and it seems to have changed his game. Perhaps VAN management is now thinking they can get better return for the younger, cheaper Schneider, and they ride Luongo for the next 5 years and groom the even-younger-but-promising Eddie Lack to take over.




If it were up to me, that is exactly what I would do. Judging from many different articles, it appears that the contract and "falling out" Luo has had in Vancouver makes it that much more difficult to trade. There are so many factors involved in his trade, that a Schneider trade might work out better for them. I like this option the most at this point.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2013 :  09:37:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by markliso

If it were up to me, that is exactly what I would do. Judging from many different articles, it appears that the contract and "falling out" Luo has had in Vancouver makes it that much more difficult to trade. There are so many factors involved in his trade, that a Schneider trade might work out better for them. I like this option the most at this point.



The falling out also makes it difficult to keep him. After nearly a year of saying publicly that you're attempting to trade Luongo, publicly making Schneider your starter, and even hearing Luongo say publicly that its time to move on... and then suddenly deciding no, you're actually the one we want, we're going to keep you here for the next 10 years after all...

Luongo is saying all the right things now and sounds like the perfect team mate and accomodating guy as he facilitates a trade. But I can't believe that fundamental bridges have not been burned between him and Canuck management over how things went down in last year's playoffs and over the summer and lockout. I have a hard time believing that after all of it, Luongo would be perfectly happy to remain in Vancouver.

I guess we'll see how it plays out though.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1877 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2013 :  19:05:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am not saying I wasn't a Loungo fan before this circus, but how he has handled all of the pressure, media and handling of this situation has been with the utmost professionalism. I wouldn't be surprised if Loungo remains with the franchise. I read an article about the agent for Schneider who has stated he and his client are running out of patience, totally opposite of the press Loungo is giving. A starter has been played out of his position in the past only to regain it later. Look in Boston where Rask was the future and Thomas was suppose to be in the end of his career. 1 short year later Boston was hoisting the cup with Thomas as the main backstop. Flash in the pan backups happen all the time, who later live down there 1 year wonder status. I have never seen the hype that the Vancouver situation has heaped on these 2 goalies but the circumstance has happened. If I was Loungo i would be pushing for a quick exit based on how the management has handled the situation, but I dont see the interactions they have behind closed doors, just the media spin on the situation. He may be happy to stay and play for a few more years, as Bean's suggested in Vancouver.
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@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2013 :  20:58:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't see a trade happening this season.

66 is > than 99
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Guest2260
( )

Posted - 02/07/2013 :  07:12:51  Reply with Quote
Tampa needs a goalie bad and they would likely be a very desirable location for Luongo. I still like the rumor of Lecavilier for Luongo this works for both teams. Van does need to gain back some confidence in Schneider though for sure.

On a side note as this seems to be where the bulk of the conversation is going. Leafs fans need to have a little more patience in Reimer. I think he has the potential to be a carear goalie lets let him play a full season already. Also get Gardiner up from the minors already!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2013 :  09:08:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2260

Tampa needs a goalie bad and they would likely be a very desirable location for Luongo. I still like the rumor of Lecavilier for Luongo this works for both teams. Van does need to gain back some confidence in Schneider though for sure.

On a side note as this seems to be where the bulk of the conversation is going. Leafs fans need to have a little more patience in Reimer. I think he has the potential to be a carear goalie lets let him play a full season already. Also get Gardiner up from the minors already!



Luongo to TB certainly seems reasonable, and thats probably close enough for him FLA-wise. However, Lecavalier to VAN does not really fit for (current) VAN. They don't need another top-2 centre with Kesler nearly back, and they cannot take a 7.7M cap hit (for the next 8 years) in return without losing another major part of their lineup right now. The only way I see this working for VAN is if they also have plans to trade or buyout Kesler at the end of the year - which might be in the works, who knows. Or if they would then plan to buyout Lecavalier after this year, but I don't think they would trade for an expensive buyout.

I'm not even sure if TB wants to get rid of Lecavalier right now, he seems to be having a bit of a resurgence this season...
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2013 :  09:44:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
HUH? "Buy-out Kesler"??? You serious??? Why in the world would they have to buy out Kesler? You don't think he'd be easily tradeable???

I don't know what TB gave up for Lindback but it does make some sense, due to the fact he's still young, to grab a guy like Luongo for the next season or 2 considering Lecavalier is getting on (33 this year) and St Louis is near-dinosaur (yet still playing remarkably well). Even with the core of Stamkos, Hedman, etc, how many shots do the Lightning have at a cup run with this entire group (St. Louis included)?

As for Lecavalier, i don't see how any team is gonna take on that deal. It's one thing to say Luongo's is big, but a cap hit of 7.7 for the next 7 years is crazy for a guy who's avg'd 60pts / year over the past 4 seasons, albeit with some games missed in there. Even a team that needs to get to "the floor", still has to pay this guy 10million per up to and including 15/16 as well as 8.5 million in 16/17. Only then does it drop to 4M, 1.5M and 1M. I don't see how anyone takes this on.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2013 :  13:56:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

HUH? "Buy-out Kesler"??? You serious??? Why in the world would they have to buy out Kesler? You don't think he'd be easily tradeable???

I don't know what TB gave up for Lindback but it does make some sense, due to the fact he's still young, to grab a guy like Luongo for the next season or 2 considering Lecavalier is getting on (33 this year) and St Louis is near-dinosaur (yet still playing remarkably well). Even with the core of Stamkos, Hedman, etc, how many shots do the Lightning have at a cup run with this entire group (St. Louis included)?

As for Lecavalier, i don't see how any team is gonna take on that deal. It's one thing to say Luongo's is big, but a cap hit of 7.7 for the next 7 years is crazy for a guy who's avg'd 60pts / year over the past 4 seasons, albeit with some games missed in there. Even a team that needs to get to "the floor", still has to pay this guy 10million per up to and including 15/16 as well as 8.5 million in 16/17. Only then does it drop to 4M, 1.5M and 1M. I don't see how anyone takes this on.



Hypothetically, if VAN were looking to get rid of Kesler... yes, I'm sure they would try to trade him first. Given that its his second lengthy layoff due to injury in 2 years, depending on how he comes back its possible there would be no takers for 5M cap hit over the next 3 years. Or perhaps other teams assume he's injury prone and don't want the risk. When your cap is 64M, 5M for one player is significant. Buyout option is always there in that event. There was some speculation about that option for Kesler should he not bounce back this year or next from this latest injury.

I agree about Lecavalier - that deal from a cap-hit POV is far worse than Luongo's. Unless you think he can return to his PPG old self. For VAN, how do they justify paying their top-line C (and better producer) Sedin only 6.2, and then bring on a second line centre for 1.5M more? I don't see him coming here.
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markliso
Top Prospect



Canada
60 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2013 :  00:51:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

Hypothetically, if VAN were looking to get rid of Kesler... yes, I'm sure they would try to trade him first. Given that its his second lengthy layoff due to injury in 2 years, depending on how he comes back its possible there would be no takers for 5M cap hit over the next 3 years. Or perhaps other teams assume he's injury prone and don't want the risk. When your cap is 64M, 5M for one player is significant. Buyout option is always there in that event. There was some speculation about that option for Kesler should he not bounce back this year or next from this latest injury.




Kesler would have to come back healthy prior to buying him out. Cannot buy out injured player. Trade is more likely in the case of Mr Kesler.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2013 :  11:09:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by markliso

quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

Hypothetically, if VAN were looking to get rid of Kesler... yes, I'm sure they would try to trade him first. Given that its his second lengthy layoff due to injury in 2 years, depending on how he comes back its possible there would be no takers for 5M cap hit over the next 3 years. Or perhaps other teams assume he's injury prone and don't want the risk. When your cap is 64M, 5M for one player is significant. Buyout option is always there in that event. There was some speculation about that option for Kesler should he not bounce back this year or next from this latest injury.




Kesler would have to come back healthy prior to buying him out. Cannot buy out injured player. Trade is more likely in the case of Mr Kesler.



That was my point in a way....i just don't see ANY chance they use a buyout on Kesler. He came back too early from his last injury and is playing it safe this time around. This is a former Selke winner who was also a runner up for the award inthe two years prior to his win AND was also 8th in Hart trophy voting the year he won his Selke. In case anyone's forgotten, he was also considered one of the favorites for the Conn Smythe in 2011 before injuring his hip in the semifinals.


He may not fetch what he would have a couple years ago, but if the Canucks had a choice between buying him out or trading him for a 5th rounder, i think i know which way they'd go, and i'm sure there'd be a lineup of teams offering much more than this for his services at the dollar amount he's signed for!

NO WAY he gets bought out!

BTW, we're getting on topic and i have a feeling we're gonna hear about it soon!

Edited by - Alex116 on 02/09/2013 11:11:00
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