| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 04/02/2009 : 07:18:11
Mr. Burke, Mr. Tough-Guy, Mr. "save-our-leafs" made one of the most hilarious comments yesterday to the media.
He's said that the Leafs missing the playoffs is like a kick in the groin for everyone involved with the Leafs.
(including females involved/hired/etc...?)
(including the guys that sold me a few beers during the games?)
Where is this guy coming from?
Were the leafs ever in playoff contention over this season?
Did he think his big move for May would shoot them into the playoffs?
Everything going on that is not "positive" has been responded (by him) by saying something like "that was already there via previous management".
So, he's got every excuse in the book to say "it wasn't me".
Why don't you just finish (or actually) start rebuilding your team and carry on with your tasks at hand Mr. Burke.
Let's see you build this team and stop kicking yourself and your clan in the balls...
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| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Guest6500 |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 21:04:31
Leafs are a joke of a franchise, Burke is a self proclaimed winner and has only ever won a cup with a team that was built before he arrived. The leafs are going nowhere quick, end of discussion! |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 12:42:13
It's entertaining at the very least, I don't think Burke is going to land a top 2 pick but I do think he will end up moving up a couple spots. I'd actually prefer if the leafs could keep the 7th pick and snag the 6th, 8th or 9th pick and have 2 choices in the top 10.
Im still not sold on the Tavares hype, the kid seems to have a knack for scoring goals but it seems like in the NHL he would just get mauled. His skating still seems to be an issue and he just doesn't seem to have NHL speed.
He could very well be the new NHL's version of Brett Hull and score 45-55 goals a year but than again he could end up injury plagued scoring 22 goals a year and playing in 53 games...
Matt Duchene is going to be the best player in this draft when we look back 5 years from now.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 11:51:57
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9817
Put simply, Guest7752 is an idiot.
End of story.
Thanks for your inputs, 9817 - glad you've made a contribution on the topic and decided to end the story.
Anyway, to keep the story going...
Alex, nice comments, however, if you think this was all a show, don't you think everyone else thinks its a show?
So what's he trying to prove?
Is he already justifying his job?
Look at his more recent comments on doing everything in his power to get top picks from Tampa or NYI...
Wow... what a smart GM?!!?!
What does he think the other GM's are doing?
Does he think they are sitting there watching him?
What's he going to trade back to these teams? Toskala?!?!?
My point is that he thinks he's talking the talk, and "demonstrating" to all that he is serious, yet we alll know it is (at this point) just "that"... "talk" and "show".
Can't fool smart Leaf fans as he's been fooling duck fans.
Look at the mess he left behind in Anaheim...
AND look at his first hire as Leaf GM... a COMPETANT assistant!!!!
So to morons like 9817 who simply want to end the story, you entirly missed my point... please do not respond anymore unless you stand up and say something worth your time typing. |
| Guest9817 |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 09:22:17
Put simply, Guest7752 is an idiot.
End of story. |
| Alex |
Posted - 04/13/2009 : 06:00:25
Sorry to chip in so late guys but I wanted to throw my two cents in on Burke's comments.
Number one, it was a drama. More than anything it was a chance for Burke to get some more spotlight. Phrases like ''kick in the groin'' were provocative and specifically chosen and rehearsed in order to get attention and spark discussion.
I do think that the culture of winning is important, but I definitely don't think the whole rah-rah attitude is the way to go about it. Look at Detroit - has there ever been a cocky guy in that organization, or someone that went after the limelight? I don't think I've ever heard Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Babcock or Holland speak to a camera except during times like the All-Star game or after winning the cup. Even Stevie Yzerman back in the day wasn't a big talker, but a dig doer. Same concept is followed in New Jersey and Boston.
No one expected Toronto to make the post-season, and it started from Brian Burke coming out and saying that at his press conference a few months ago. Saying he's ''disappointed'' in general or that losing can't be an option would be one thing, but Brian made it seem like he had pinned his hopes on winning a cup and then the team didn't make the playoffs. Calm yourself down man and do your job. |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/13/2009 : 05:23:56
1999 Draft - From Wiki: According to Sports Illustrated and other sports news agencies, at the time the 1999 draft was considered one of the deepest in talent in years, headed by Patrik Stefan and the Sedin twins. However, the overall productivity and impact in the NHL has proved considerably lower compared to neighbouring drafts[citation needed]. One of the draft's best players, Detroit's Henrik Zetterberg, was selected in the seventh round
So - at the time, it WAS considered a deep draft. We all know now, of course, that Patrick Stefan was one of those rare #1 busts, but what can you do?
So, knowing that this draft was considered deep, and knowing that it actually turned out to have quite a few busts, and knowing that Burke picked very solidly . . . doesn't that make him look smarter, and more skillful?
I mean, in the end, I don't put as much stock into draft picking records, because it's really hit and miss, and I think sometimes one just gets plain lucky. But in this case, I remember, he took a bit of a flyer on the twins (how it was viewed at the time), and it paid off.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| hanley6 |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 18:07:18
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by goleafsgosjnb
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I think that there is some definate truth in the stats when Burke is a GM, but I would be very interested to see the stats on teams after Burke left.
I think he is one of the best "short term" arcitects in the game. Withouth question. However, look at the performance of the teams once he left. Vancouver was a maginal team until this year and Anaheim has slide significantly with basically a re-build starting this summer.
Burke might be able to build a team in TO, but he can not (through his track record) build a dynasty type team. Look at teams such as Dallas, New Jersey, Detroit, and Colorado from 1995 through 2005. Those 4 teams were always contenders. Burke doesn't have the skills to do that.
And I have a hard time giving credit to GM's for gift wrapped decisions. And moron would have drafted Pronger(except who ever drafted Daigle in front of him in 93). Same with the Sedins(except for the Moron who drafted Stefan before them). Also, Neidermayer signing in Anaheim was a gift in that he already was going to Anaheim because he wanted to play with his brother. And the Pronger trade from Edmonton was also a gift. Not saying any other GM's don't get their share of gift's, but does anyone give credit to the GM in Pitt for drafting Crosby?? Nope. Some GM's decisions are no brainers.
I definitely agree with the idea of good moves falling into Burke's lap, but I give full credit for the Sedins. Did he not have to trade up to get one of them? Other GMs may not have put the work and risk into making that deal, but he did with the forsight that the Sedins would continue to excel together in the NHL. Full marks for Burke in this case, you can't take credit away from him here.
Ya, I would kind of give credit for the trades to get the back to back draft picks. But who he picked was a no brainer. Take a look at the list of 1st round draft picks from 1999 and you will see it was weak to say the least. Other than maybe Havlat and maybe Boynton there is no one else in the 1st round at all. I don't think many of those player even made the show.
However, I still think people are missing my point. Burke is very good short term, but his track record shows that he can not build a team that is competative long term. He also seems to know when to leave a team so he looks going going out the door and the next guy looks like a goat.
there were lots of good hockey players that should have been picked anywhere in the 1st round, that have done well in the NHL.
the Sedins, Tim Connelly (if he wasn't so injury prone he'd be great), Mike Comrie (Edmonton 3rd round) , Ryan Malone(Pittsburgh 4th round), Martin Erat (Nashville 7th round), Henrik Zetterberg (Detroit 7th round), Radim Vrbata (Colorodo 7th round) |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 15:00:50
quote:
Originally posted by goleafsgosjnb
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I think that there is some definate truth in the stats when Burke is a GM, but I would be very interested to see the stats on teams after Burke left.
I think he is one of the best "short term" arcitects in the game. Withouth question. However, look at the performance of the teams once he left. Vancouver was a maginal team until this year and Anaheim has slide significantly with basically a re-build starting this summer.
Burke might be able to build a team in TO, but he can not (through his track record) build a dynasty type team. Look at teams such as Dallas, New Jersey, Detroit, and Colorado from 1995 through 2005. Those 4 teams were always contenders. Burke doesn't have the skills to do that.
And I have a hard time giving credit to GM's for gift wrapped decisions. And moron would have drafted Pronger(except who ever drafted Daigle in front of him in 93). Same with the Sedins(except for the Moron who drafted Stefan before them). Also, Neidermayer signing in Anaheim was a gift in that he already was going to Anaheim because he wanted to play with his brother. And the Pronger trade from Edmonton was also a gift. Not saying any other GM's don't get their share of gift's, but does anyone give credit to the GM in Pitt for drafting Crosby?? Nope. Some GM's decisions are no brainers.
I definitely agree with the idea of good moves falling into Burke's lap, but I give full credit for the Sedins. Did he not have to trade up to get one of them? Other GMs may not have put the work and risk into making that deal, but he did with the forsight that the Sedins would continue to excel together in the NHL. Full marks for Burke in this case, you can't take credit away from him here.
Ya, I would kind of give credit for the trades to get the back to back draft picks. But who he picked was a no brainer. Take a look at the list of 1st round draft picks from 1999 and you will see it was weak to say the least. Other than maybe Havlat and maybe Boynton there is no one else in the 1st round at all. I don't think many of those player even made the show.
However, I still think people are missing my point. Burke is very good short term, but his track record shows that he can not build a team that is competative long term. He also seems to know when to leave a team so he looks going going out the door and the next guy looks like a goat. |
| goleafsgosjnb |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 14:21:20
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I think that there is some definate truth in the stats when Burke is a GM, but I would be very interested to see the stats on teams after Burke left.
I think he is one of the best "short term" arcitects in the game. Withouth question. However, look at the performance of the teams once he left. Vancouver was a maginal team until this year and Anaheim has slide significantly with basically a re-build starting this summer.
Burke might be able to build a team in TO, but he can not (through his track record) build a dynasty type team. Look at teams such as Dallas, New Jersey, Detroit, and Colorado from 1995 through 2005. Those 4 teams were always contenders. Burke doesn't have the skills to do that.
And I have a hard time giving credit to GM's for gift wrapped decisions. And moron would have drafted Pronger(except who ever drafted Daigle in front of him in 93). Same with the Sedins(except for the Moron who drafted Stefan before them). Also, Neidermayer signing in Anaheim was a gift in that he already was going to Anaheim because he wanted to play with his brother. And the Pronger trade from Edmonton was also a gift. Not saying any other GM's don't get their share of gift's, but does anyone give credit to the GM in Pitt for drafting Crosby?? Nope. Some GM's decisions are no brainers.
I definitely agree with the idea of good moves falling into Burke's lap, but I give full credit for the Sedins. Did he not have to trade up to get one of them? Other GMs may not have put the work and risk into making that deal, but he did with the forsight that the Sedins would continue to excel together in the NHL. Full marks for Burke in this case, you can't take credit away from him here. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 09:10:16
I think that there is some definate truth in the stats when Burke is a GM, but I would be very interested to see the stats on teams after Burke left.
I think he is one of the best "short term" arcitects in the game. Withouth question. However, look at the performance of the teams once he left. Vancouver was a maginal team until this year and Anaheim has slide significantly with basically a re-build starting this summer.
Burke might be able to build a team in TO, but he can not (through his track record) build a dynasty type team. Look at teams such as Dallas, New Jersey, Detroit, and Colorado from 1995 through 2005. Those 4 teams were always contenders. Burke doesn't have the skills to do that.
And I have a hard time giving credit to GM's for gift wrapped decisions. And moron would have drafted Pronger(except who ever drafted Daigle in front of him in 93). Same with the Sedins(except for the Moron who drafted Stefan before them). Also, Neidermayer signing in Anaheim was a gift in that he already was going to Anaheim because he wanted to play with his brother. And the Pronger trade from Edmonton was also a gift. Not saying any other GM's don't get their share of gift's, but does anyone give credit to the GM in Pitt for drafting Crosby?? Nope. Some GM's decisions are no brainers. |
| MrD |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 21:51:30
Hanley,
That's a little closer now, no worries 'bout the miscount. The slight difference in wins # is due to the print lag. It is printed in the March 30th edition so give or take a week or so, the Leafs pushed out a few more Ws, however I still find a .544 record for a GM that is highly touted by the media to be a little less than impressive. Again, my personal disdain for Burke comes into play here. I can succomb to admit that Burke has done some admirable things though. Drafting Pronger - not a bad call (although I have beef with Pronger in a club jersey but not a team Canada jersey). I like the attitude he takes toward his teams as well as towards the media; no holds barred. Build a gritty team and bear the brunt of the consequences whether positive or negative. He can surprise, or shock and awe if you will (signing May, winning the "college sweepstakes" this past week) and can ruffle feathers with his blunt media work (ie. the topic of this thread). Still dislike the guy and his antics (ask me in another stream). Let's wait and see what he does in the off season and throughout the next 2 or 3 years. Then we can debate his performance with the Leafs. Until then I stand by my beliefs, as will you I imagine. I just think that the past several years the Leafs have performed so badly (under both previous GMs and coaches) that any new face in management will look like a saviour. Must have been a nice Bday present to find out the Jesus of GMs was coming to T.O though .
Milbury and McGuire should fight to the death and both lose. |
| Guest8228 |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 14:03:14
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
Burke's GM Career has been a lot more more successful than you said
GM of Hartford Whalers
1992-93: 26 Wins 52 Losses and 6 Ties, Total 58 Points
-Drafted Chris Pronger
GM of Vancouver
1998-99: 22 Wins 47 Losses and 12 Ties, Total 56 Points
1999-00: 30 Wins 29 Losses and 15 Ties, Total 75 Points
2000-01: 36 Wins 28 Losses and 11 Ties, Total 83 Points
2001-02: 42 Wins 30 Losses and 7 Ties, Total 91 Points
2002-03: 45 Wins 23 Losses and 13 Ties, Total 103 Points
2003-04: 43 Wins 24 Losses and 10 Ties, Total 96 Points
Northeast Division Title
GM of Anaheim
2005-06: 43 Wins 27 Losses and 12 Overtime Losses, Total 98 Points
2006-07: 48 Wins 20 Losses and 14 Overtime Losses, Total 110 Points
Pacific Division Title, Stanley Cup Champions
2007-08: 47 Wins 27 Losses and 8 Overtime Losses, Total 102 Points
2008-09: 9 Wins 7 Losses and 1 Overtime Loss, Total 19 Points. He left Anaheim on November 12th my birthday
GM of Toronto (became GM of the Leafs November 29 2008)
2008-09 including April 7ths game against New Jersey... 26 Wins 25 Losses and 7 Overtime Losses, Total 59 Points
Total NHL GM STATS so far: 417 Wins, 339 Losses, 74 Ties, and 42 Overtime Losses...
my bad on the wins total I posted, bad count, fixed now
I thought overtime losses were still losses? |
| Guest6690 |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 12:56:32
All of you who are saying Aneheim is the team burke built I'm pretty sure Murray mostly built that team |
| goleafsgosjnb |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 12:05:39
quote:
Originally posted by DangleFest89
quote:
Originally posted by goleafsgosjnb
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0809
From 7752:
Mr. goleafs...
I'm sure no one here is new to press conferences.
However, how stupid did Burke think everyone listening was?
He's a new GM in a Hockey-crazed town, where everyone knows what needs to be done for the next couple of years in order to win.
Why would he think that saying something like that will get things stirring, or get his non-performers on the team "worried" about their jobs? The town (and coach, and team!!)knows what needs to be done with this team, they know the performers, they know the non-performers.
This is the third best hockey town in Canada after all!! (Montreal is first, Edmonton is second, by the way).
This town is NOT Anaheim!!!
No need to show them how serious you can be Mr. Burke, no need for that act.
Stand up at the conference and pat the coach on the back for finishing way over where everyone said they would. Say well done to your young players, give thanks to the fans, etc... and tell them you'll continue to work on building this team.
Say something a little more positive or professional - no need to scare everyone or kick yourself in the balls.
For example, Gainey showed a lot more class when continuously asked why the team was playing so bad and why fire your best friend, etc... His responses (at press-conferences) had no threatening messages, only clear cut analysis of the situation. And suddenly, a couple of weeks later, after positive "actions" on his part - the Habs are WINNING..... wait till you see how bad they'll beat the NYI with Halak tonight!!!!!
Mr. Burke - go back to towns that don't know hockey - stop under-estimating Leaf fans hockey knowledge.
Actions speak in Leaf territory, not typical cliches.
Haha I also think you may be giving the average Leaf fan, the same fan that has been spoiled with such stellar management the past few decades, a bit too much credit.
I personally like the statement he made. He made it in his own boisterous sort of way, but it was the right message to send to the media, the fans, and the organization. Would Gainey have done it differently? Probably. I'm gonna stay out of this whole Burke vs Gainey arguement cause it is kind of useless at this point. Neither has taken a team and built a Stanley Cup winner. However, Burke has proven he is able to put a Stanley Cup winner together with a foundation in place, so he gets major points for that.
I'm willing to submit that they are on equal playing field in this arguement, but if anyone seriously wants to say Gainey is clearly a better GM than Burke, you might want to check the score: Burke 1, Gainey 0
I'll debate this if you want? you can go first though kinda wanna research what he did to Van and what he actually did in Ana
New Thread Per Chance?
Haha my point was I did not want to debate this. Gainey is still a fairly new GM and despite some questionable moves, so far so good. He has some players to build around and a lot of big decisions to make in the offseason. This will be a real test for him. As for Burke, he has managed some good teams, but this is his chance to build one from the ground up. I can't wait to see how it turns out, I am optimistic so far.
Some guest said something interesting about signing players with the best stats. All I could think of was how I felt when they signed Jason Blake lol. Don't get me wrong, good player, but too old and no upside for the deal he got for so long. For now though it is irrelevant. New management, new era. |
| MrD |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 09:42:20
[/quote]
where did you find these stats? and keep in mind that Burke didn't start the season as Toronto's GM
[/quote]
These are the stats listed in THN (The Hockey News if you're not sure) in their 3rd annual GM ranking which you can find in this year's March 30th issue. I fully trust them to be honest and accurate (as do most professionals in the hockey industry) although I do find it interesting that your stats differ significantly. Where are your stats from, and what in your opinion is the reason for the discrepancy (and please don't just state that yours are right and The Hockey News are liars)? And I'm not exactly sure what "[keeping] in mind that Burke didn't start the season as Toronto's GM" has to do with anything I wrote or the stats listed by THN; I'm fairly positive that their writers and statisticians are well aware of that.
And for the record I am not at all bashing Burke's performance with the Leafs. As I stated earlier, he hasn't even completed a full season there yet so it is pretty difficult to assess what he has or hasn't done.
Milbury and McGuire should fight to the death and both lose. |
| Antroman |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 08:48:54
Hello to all my old "Pickup Hockey" people, both friends and foes of our Mighty Maples. A great many things have passed since I last took part in this hockey forum, some good and some bad. The good would have to be the arrival of Burke as the GM and the second, Ron Wilson as the new head coach. The Leafs seem to have finally got the cart on the right track at least, and just might be heading in the right direction. The bad for me personally was the departure of my main man Antropov to the Rangers earlier this season. I know it was a good move for the club moving forward but personally it left behind a real stinger in the butt for me. As of today I can only take solace in the fact that the Maples had a hand in possbibly lowering the expectations of all the Hab fans out there with those two beauty hits in the their last encounter. Anyway, our future looks so bright I am out to purchase new shades........Antroman. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 07:16:43
Couldn't agree more.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest4597 |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 05:46:55
For people like guest 7752:
How can you sit there and honestly bash the Leafs and Burke? He hasnt even managed a full season as a Maple Leafs GM and your questioning why he hasnt won a cup with them? Your beloved HABS are on the bubble of missing the playoffs and you have the parts to chap another team. Lets get real here, Burke has been brought in to give the team a much needed facelift and so far (to me) has done the best he can with the pieces he was givin to play with. And now for Gainey....lets fire our coach to save my own ass....lets not move anybody to improve for my CENTENNIAL season....lets bring in an old guy like Robert Lang or hell why not even get Mathieu Schneider...Gainey is turning his franchise into what the leafs are currently pulling themselves out of.
Put it this way, as of today, I would much rather be a LEAFS fan then a HABS fan because at least our season is going accoring to plan, not falling off the map and choking close to the end of the season under the pressure of my Centennial Season! |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 05:27:00
Don't worry, we're not planning the parade route . . .
. . . yet. 
btw guest 7176: The fans don't choose GMs. We are merely homers who want the best for our team, and in general most Leaf fans like the direction Burke is taking so far and like what he has to say.
Trust me, these opinion can change in a second, depending on his actions during this summer and onward. He hasn't done much yet, but he hasn't had a chance to, so we can only go by what he has said and done so far.
So far, so good.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest7176 |
Posted - 04/08/2009 : 04:16:08
7752:
These stats that toronto fans spit out are exectly why the leafs, their management and their fans will NEVER get anywhere.
You guys always go after the resources with the best stats... you never go look for what you need and go find and get it, or you never develope anyone that has any potential. The resource with the best stats does not always mean that he/she will be the best fit into your TEAM. When are you guys going to learn...
Burke "may" have been ok everywhere else... but that does not necessarily mean he's what your team needs to make it a winner.
|
| hanley6 |
Posted - 04/07/2009 : 23:45:29
Burke's GM Career has been a lot more more successful than you said
GM of Hartford Whalers
1992-93: 26 Wins 52 Losses and 6 Ties, Total 58 Points
-Drafted Chris Pronger
GM of Vancouver
1998-99: 22 Wins 47 Losses and 12 Ties, Total 56 Points
1999-00: 30 Wins 29 Losses and 15 Ties, Total 75 Points
2000-01: 36 Wins 28 Losses and 11 Ties, Total 83 Points
2001-02: 42 Wins 30 Losses and 7 Ties, Total 91 Points
2002-03: 45 Wins 23 Losses and 13 Ties, Total 103 Points
2003-04: 43 Wins 24 Losses and 10 Ties, Total 96 Points
Northeast Division Title
GM of Anaheim
2005-06: 43 Wins 27 Losses and 12 Overtime Losses, Total 98 Points
2006-07: 48 Wins 20 Losses and 14 Overtime Losses, Total 110 Points
Pacific Division Title, Stanley Cup Champions
2007-08: 47 Wins 27 Losses and 8 Overtime Losses, Total 102 Points
2008-09: 9 Wins 7 Losses and 1 Overtime Loss, Total 19 Points. He left Anaheim on November 12th my birthday
GM of Toronto (became GM of the Leafs November 29 2008)
2008-09... 27 Wins 26 Losses and 7 Overtime Losses, Total 61 Points
Total NHL GM STATS so far: 418 Wins, 340 Losses, 74 Ties, and 42 Overtime Losses...
my bad on the wins total I posted, bad count, fixed now |
| hanley6 |
Posted - 04/07/2009 : 21:53:33
quote:
Originally posted by MrD
I agree Beans, although I personaly dislike Burke for reasons I alluded to earlier. The media seems to love the guy. I cite as an example THN's annual GM ranking. Last year, it's 2nd annual edition ranked Burke as #1, and this year they have him at # 7. Here are some stats for you 'cause I know you love 'em (as of the end of March):
Career: 412-334-141 (.544)
Cup Wins: 1
Playoffs: 7-6 series record
To me, these don't truly reflect his success (or failure, depending on how you see it) because he tends as you mentioned to leave teams in the tough. To quote THN's write-up:
"He's unafraid to make high-risk moves and does them decisively, which can be both a blessing and a curse for the teams he manages. The Anaheim Ducks have paid dearly for Scott Niedermayer's dithering and a team that won a Stanley Cup just two years ago has floundered since and is on the playoff bubble. Burke's entire body of work, though, is still very impressive."
Again it sounds to me like the writers really love the guy and had a hard time putting him lower in the rankings (or possibly had a hard time justifying his 7th place even though they would have loved to put him higher). Either way, I think it's too early to have any valid opinion as to what he's done or will do with T.O. I still love his comment though; lots of respect here for a GM that will favour the off-the-cuff over the cookie cutter comment.
Milbury and McGuire should fight to the death and both lose.
where did you find these stats? and keep in mind that Burke didn't start the season as Toronto's GM |
| MrD |
Posted - 04/07/2009 : 09:34:11
I agree Beans, although I personaly dislike Burke for reasons I alluded to earlier. The media seems to love the guy. I cite as an example THN's annual GM ranking. Last year, it's 2nd annual edition ranked Burke as #1, and this year they have him at # 7. Here are some stats for you 'cause I know you love 'em (as of the end of March):
Career: 412-334-141 (.544)
Cup Wins: 1
Playoffs: 7-6 series record
To me, these don't truly reflect his success (or failure, depending on how you see it) because he tends as you mentioned to leave teams in the tough. To quote THN's write-up:
"He's unafraid to make high-risk moves and does them decisively, which can be both a blessing and a curse for the teams he manages. The Anaheim Ducks have paid dearly for Scott Niedermayer's dithering and a team that won a Stanley Cup just two years ago has floundered since and is on the playoff bubble. Burke's entire body of work, though, is still very impressive."
Again it sounds to me like the writers really love the guy and had a hard time putting him lower in the rankings (or possibly had a hard time justifying his 7th place even though they would have loved to put him higher). Either way, I think it's too early to have any valid opinion as to what he's done or will do with T.O. I still love his comment though; lots of respect here for a GM that will favour the off-the-cuff over the cookie cutter comment.
Milbury and McGuire should fight to the death and both lose. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 04/07/2009 : 06:21:41
Im sure Burke can see the things hes done right, and things hes done wrong in the past. Id imagine he'll learn (at least a little bit) from his mistakes.
Brian isnt the best GM in the NHL, but I still think he is a pretty darn good one.
Don't forget he got Fedorov out of anaheim, brought selanne in, signed Perry and Getzlaf to long term deals and drafted Bobby Ryan.
In vancouver he took over a team that missed the playoffs 3 years in a row with Messier as their captain. Within 2 years they were a 100 point team who were considered an elite team in the NHL (yes, they underacheived, but some of that falls on the coaches and players). The Bertuzzi-Naslund-Morrison line was one of the best in hockey, all he needed to do was upgrade Cloutier, but was gassed before he could.
Dave Nonis took over from Burke and he is really the one responsible for the canucks team you see today really. He traded for luongo and refused to trade guys like kesler,burrows and raymond at the trade deadline for Brad Richards, and got fired for it. I bet Gilles is happy that Nonis didnt mortgage the future.
Now Dave Nonis is working for the leafs as well. We all know Burke has his shortcomings, but he also has alot of strengths and is surrounded by an awesome team of execs. Between Burke, Nonis, Fletch and Joe Nieuwendyk I finally feel comfortable with the leafs managment team.
A recent news report in toronto stated that Nieuwendyk was a major factor in the signings of Hanson and Bozak. Ill paraphrase a burke quote; "when they look at me they see a GM, when they look at Joe they see a Stanley CUp champion".
I love it, teamwork baby
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| irvine |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 18:47:12
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
The concern that I would have as a Leafs Fan is Burke's track record. Sure, he won a Cup with the Ducks, but many (including myself) have argued that the team that won the Cup was built mostly by Brian Murray. Burke added a few pieces, but was not the solely responsible. However, take a look at the Ducks now?? A team that Burke was definately more involved with are fighting for the playoffs. Above this, they have all but one of their defensemen and most of their forwards as UFA's at the end of this year. Look at Vancouver. Up until this year, they were not a contender and were left in that state by Burke.
Ultimately, I don't think Burke is as good a GM as the media makes him out to be. Above that, TO really doesn't have any marketable assests to aide in a re-build. They have to hope to draft and be effective in the free agent market. Both of which are risks.
I just don't envy the Leafs fans today because I don't see any sunshine on the horizon.
Very well put, Mr. Beans. Burke seems to come in to a team, make them a little tougher, but leaves them a mess. He tends to allow things to dismantle before its his time to disappear.
Irvine |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 15:31:19
I have to somewhat agree with Hanley on this one. Ultimately, the team that is on the ice at the ACC each week was not built by Burke. His impacts have been fairly insignificant to this point and I can't blame him. Ultimately, the team today is very similar to the one last year with the exception of Sundin and McCabe, so how can you expect a team that missed the playoffs with those two players to make the playoffs the following year without them.
I think Ron Wilson has done an admirable job in making TO as competative as they have been.
The concern that I would have as a Leafs Fan is Burke's track record. Sure, he won a Cup with the Ducks, but many (including myself) have argued that the team that won the Cup was built mostly by Brian Murray. Burke added a few pieces, but was not the solely responsible. However, take a look at the Ducks now?? A team that Burke was definately more involved with are fighting for the playoffs. Above this, they have all but one of their defensemen and most of their forwards as UFA's at the end of this year. Look at Vancouver. Up until this year, they were not a contender and were left in that state by Burke.
Ultimately, I don't think Burke is as good a GM as the media makes him out to be. Above that, TO really doesn't have any marketable assests to aide in a re-build. They have to hope to draft and be effective in the free agent market. Both of which are risks.
I just don't envy the Leafs fans today because I don't see any sunshine on the horizon. |
| Guest9109 |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 15:15:21
lol well put hanley, they are going in the right direction. matt good on ya buddy!!! |
| hanley6 |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 09:36:11
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7176
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9109
and the ring on his finger. gay-ney hasnt won anything as a gm
neither has burke since he became Toronto GM...?
its his first season as a GM for Toronto it wasn't even a full season... Burke and Wilson will build The Leafs into a great team... Its up to the GM to get the players Which Burke has started doing already, its up to him to get rid of Toronto's true problem Mr. Lack Performance himself I wont say his name everyone knows who I'm talking about. It's up to the coaches to coach, But it's ultimately up to the players and goaltenders to perform. The Leafs did a great job this year, again they were robbed of a chance to make the playoffs because of Mr. Lack of Performance... Fletcher/Burke and Wilson have done there jobs and they did a great job.. Next year will be a better season. For us true Leafs fans lets just hope they get rid of the 4 Million salary Lack of Performance king so the Leafs can finally have a shot at making it somewhere. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 09:06:28
like I said off the top, this guy is just trying to piss off leaf fans. and it seems to be working lol. Don't worry boys, we all know that the leafs are in good shape moving forward. The Quinn/Ferguson days are over, Burke has set the foundation for years to come.
We will see what Gainey is made of this summer when half of the team decides to leave town. Kovalev? Koivu? Lang? Tanguay? Komisarek? These are just a few of the guys Gainey has to either re-sign or let walk. That will be a big test.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest9109 |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 09:03:21
k ur an idiot 7176 burke has been gm in toronto since like january, unless hes some kind of a magician im not sure he's had all the much of a chance to change anything |
| DangleFest89 |
Posted - 04/04/2009 : 16:09:39
quote:
Originally posted by goleafsgosjnb
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0809
From 7752:
Mr. goleafs...
I'm sure no one here is new to press conferences.
However, how stupid did Burke think everyone listening was?
He's a new GM in a Hockey-crazed town, where everyone knows what needs to be done for the next couple of years in order to win.
Why would he think that saying something like that will get things stirring, or get his non-performers on the team "worried" about their jobs? The town (and coach, and team!!)knows what needs to be done with this team, they know the performers, they know the non-performers.
This is the third best hockey town in Canada after all!! (Montreal is first, Edmonton is second, by the way).
This town is NOT Anaheim!!!
No need to show them how serious you can be Mr. Burke, no need for that act.
Stand up at the conference and pat the coach on the back for finishing way over where everyone said they would. Say well done to your young players, give thanks to the fans, etc... and tell them you'll continue to work on building this team.
Say something a little more positive or professional - no need to scare everyone or kick yourself in the balls.
For example, Gainey showed a lot more class when continuously asked why the team was playing so bad and why fire your best friend, etc... His responses (at press-conferences) had no threatening messages, only clear cut analysis of the situation. And suddenly, a couple of weeks later, after positive "actions" on his part - the Habs are WINNING..... wait till you see how bad they'll beat the NYI with Halak tonight!!!!!
Mr. Burke - go back to towns that don't know hockey - stop under-estimating Leaf fans hockey knowledge.
Actions speak in Leaf territory, not typical cliches.
Haha I also think you may be giving the average Leaf fan, the same fan that has been spoiled with such stellar management the past few decades, a bit too much credit.
I personally like the statement he made. He made it in his own boisterous sort of way, but it was the right message to send to the media, the fans, and the organization. Would Gainey have done it differently? Probably. I'm gonna stay out of this whole Burke vs Gainey arguement cause it is kind of useless at this point. Neither has taken a team and built a Stanley Cup winner. However, Burke has proven he is able to put a Stanley Cup winner together with a foundation in place, so he gets major points for that.
I'm willing to submit that they are on equal playing field in this arguement, but if anyone seriously wants to say Gainey is clearly a better GM than Burke, you might want to check the score: Burke 1, Gainey 0
I'll debate this if you want? you can go first though kinda wanna research what he did to Van and what he actually did in Ana
New Thread Per Chance? |
| goleafsgosjnb |
Posted - 04/04/2009 : 13:58:53
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0809
From 7752:
Mr. goleafs...
I'm sure no one here is new to press conferences.
However, how stupid did Burke think everyone listening was?
He's a new GM in a Hockey-crazed town, where everyone knows what needs to be done for the next couple of years in order to win.
Why would he think that saying something like that will get things stirring, or get his non-performers on the team "worried" about their jobs? The town (and coach, and team!!)knows what needs to be done with this team, they know the performers, they know the non-performers.
This is the third best hockey town in Canada after all!! (Montreal is first, Edmonton is second, by the way).
This town is NOT Anaheim!!!
No need to show them how serious you can be Mr. Burke, no need for that act.
Stand up at the conference and pat the coach on the back for finishing way over where everyone said they would. Say well done to your young players, give thanks to the fans, etc... and tell them you'll continue to work on building this team.
Say something a little more positive or professional - no need to scare everyone or kick yourself in the balls.
For example, Gainey showed a lot more class when continuously asked why the team was playing so bad and why fire your best friend, etc... His responses (at press-conferences) had no threatening messages, only clear cut analysis of the situation. And suddenly, a couple of weeks later, after positive "actions" on his part - the Habs are WINNING..... wait till you see how bad they'll beat the NYI with Halak tonight!!!!!
Mr. Burke - go back to towns that don't know hockey - stop under-estimating Leaf fans hockey knowledge.
Actions speak in Leaf territory, not typical cliches.
Haha I also think you may be giving the average Leaf fan, the same fan that has been spoiled with such stellar management the past few decades, a bit too much credit.
I personally like the statement he made. He made it in his own boisterous sort of way, but it was the right message to send to the media, the fans, and the organization. Would Gainey have done it differently? Probably. I'm gonna stay out of this whole Burke vs Gainey arguement cause it is kind of useless at this point. Neither has taken a team and built a Stanley Cup winner. However, Burke has proven he is able to put a Stanley Cup winner together with a foundation in place, so he gets major points for that.
I'm willing to submit that they are on equal playing field in this arguement, but if anyone seriously wants to say Gainey is clearly a better GM than Burke, you might want to check the score: Burke 1, Gainey 0 |
| Guest6362 |
Posted - 04/04/2009 : 13:04:50
7752, this topic is funny to read listining to what you are going to say next. First off, your trying to say the leafs are doing worse than the habs.. REALLY, didn't know i could read the standings. You must forget that the leafs are rebuiling this year and your mighty habs were supposed top be HUGE playoff contendors, well i guess that isn't going to pan out. What has Burke done this year? seriously? he has brought in a bunch of young talent, draft picks (finally), give them 2 years and it will hopefully work out. Wait until this summer when he can put his 19 mil to work. Bring in Matt Gilroy (hopefully) and they get the hat trick. What has Gainey done, haha NOTHING. What do you expect Burke to say, it alright boys well get it next year. Of course he wants to get the message across that not making the playoffs will not be tolerated Should be fun watching the leafs beat the habs again tonight though |
| Guest9233 |
Posted - 04/04/2009 : 10:37:52
GO CANUCKS GO
GO CANUCKS GO
GO CANUCKS GO
Who cares about the leafs or the HABS.
Canada has a new sheriff in town.
GO CANUCKS GO. |
| Guest7176 |
Posted - 04/04/2009 : 10:14:30
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9109
and the ring on his finger. gay-ney hasnt won anything as a gm
neither has burke since he became Toronto GM...? |
| Guest9109 |
Posted - 04/04/2009 : 03:39:39
and the ring on his finger. gay-ney hasnt won anything as a gm |
| Guest0809 |
Posted - 04/03/2009 : 17:34:31
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9109
k but the anaheim ducks would kill the habs 9 games outta 10... oh
yeah, isnt that the team burke built...
Operative word in your comment is "would".
Which happens to be an opinion of yours.
In that case - I can, in a more certain way then you, say the Leafs DID beat the Habs all season, but where are Burke's Leafs "now" compared to Gainey's Habs?
Speaking of the Ducks, seems to me that they are in a playoff position, which is better than where Burke left them when he said godd-bye.
What else has Burke "built" for you guys to assume he is mightier than Gainey? |
| Guest9109 |
Posted - 04/03/2009 : 17:07:22
k but the anaheim ducks would kill the habs 9 games outta 10... oh
yeah, isnt that the team burke built... |
| Guest0809 |
Posted - 04/03/2009 : 16:08:03
7752:
First -
Burke = Best Leaf GM since 60's ????
What has he done to merit such a title ??
HAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
Second -
What did Gainey do?? All that Cap space and no moves ??
By the way, where are the HABS today, and where are the LEAFS today??
And YOU question Gainey while praising Burke!?!?!??!?!?!
HAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!
NO WONDER LEAFS FANS ARE SO FERAKIN' STUPID !!!!!!!
What the heck is going on your your heads???
|
| Hustler90 |
Posted - 04/03/2009 : 15:48:30
Wow this 7752 guy rips up Burke and then says hes a HABS fan, his GM has so much cap space and they don't do jack s*** in the off-season. Wooo look at me I'm Bob Gainey, were gonna do so good in our 100th year, im gonna make all these moves. He did nothing relevant. He's a joke. Bob Gainey dreams of having Lecavalier...haha i'd love to see it happen. |
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