| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Seventy7Fifty2 |
Posted - 07/18/2009 : 17:44:02
Well, lots of talk in bean-town about major moves, but nothing to show that Burke is working his so-called magic.
However, Gainey is making moves after move to enhave the habs' positioning next season.
I just love how Burke is using the media to raise "his" players value. But nothing materializes... what a moron!!
On the other hand, and in complete contrast, Gainey is making amazing moves adding speed, scoring, etc.. on the front - and adding real "D" muscle at the back... HAAA!!!!!!
Poor leafs....!!!!
By the way, it was the leaf fans that raised the most crap when Komi made the all-star team. They were the loudest when it came to opposing his selection due to lack of talent... well now he's all yours!!!!
How's that for a Gainey vs Burke move??
Once again, Gainey has out-classed Burke! |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 14:31:21
Guest 8144, Here is my answer in my opinion as a habs fan i do not pretend to speak to or for any other habs fan!
Negatives,
I do not believe in Jacques Martin`s system with the players we have in place, we will never be more than a 6th to 8th place team fighting for our spot in the playoffs every year.
The habs have yet to grasp the idea of developing young talent. so many young players come to the NHL from hamilton with much potential and then lack the Pro Player development with the big squad to produce, examples ( Latendress, Paciortty, A`gostini the list goes on) This team needs someone to work with these kids exculsivly at the NHL level, its not normal that they get stunted like this. Maybe one or two but there are so many that just cant make the leap.
Connecting to the previous problem is the need to sighn players to fill the void the young players cant. the problem is in montreal we overpay we have to. So we get locked into contract like 5.5million for 4 years to Roman Hamirlik , 3.8 million for 3 years Spacek, don`t get me wrong these are very good players but paid to much and even worse for too long. 1 or 2 Contracts like the Gomez contract we could handle if we didn`t have 4 or 5 contracts like the Spacek one. If we could bring up some young talent being paid 800 000 instead we wouldn`t have the cap issues trying to bring plekanec and other players back.
These mistakes are why i have always said i hated Bob Gainey for this team we just keep patching problems and not fixing them
Positives are existant though
Cammalleri seeing this huge playoff performance and despite an injury excellent season i am extactic to watch this guy play for the habs for the next 6 years and look forward to seeing him wear the C
Halak and Price both have extremly bright futurs and good starting goalies are hard to come by very happy with these two despite what the media or anyone who doesn`t watch hockey has to say about price (he is Gold)
P.K subban i never thought he d play in the nhl after watching his peewee moves playing the the world juniors i thought he would get rockedd in the NHL i was wrong,,, this kid is the real deal and will be a solid numebr 1 or 2 d man.
A handfull of other great sighning this season Gionta is slightly over payed but 28 goals for 5 million with his two way ability and leadership i will take it, Moen great 3rd liner one of the best imo, Glen metropolite leader and all around studd Dominic moore great two way player,,,,,,
if we can get some kids to step up shed a bit of salary and draft well this team can sustain and even much improve but it would have to take a new young G.M and coach Combo !!!
Pasty |
| Guest8144 |
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 11:03:54
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
well, 7752 is the same dude who spent much of the season trying to piss off leaf fans for his own enjoyment, so i dont really get all bent out of shape when he starts another post ripping on the leafs.
-
The way I view it, is that the Habs kind of went sideways. I dont really see them being any better or any worse. While the Leafs have definatley gained ground and have improved their club.
For the habs to really improve this year they need 3 things to happen.
1. The support players need to put up points during important stretches of the season. Plekanec especially. He and the Kostitsyns really need to support the 3 new FA's. If it is just the Cammalerri, Gomez and GIonta show, the habs are done.
2. Carey Price Halak needs to prove that he is capable of playing 65 games and having strong numbers in the NHL. 2.60 gaa and a .910 sv percentage. I know its a bit of a cliche, but its true. The Habs need him to be strong in goal and really cement himself as one of the top 10 netminder in the NHL.
3. The entire team needs to buy into Jacques Martin. The D is average at best and they will need to have the forwards coming back hard in their own zone to support a proper breakout. He also needs to erase the attitude that took over the team in the second half of last year. It should be easy to do since half of last years team is now gone. It just cant be another year of scandals and tabloid bullcrap dominating headlines in Montreal. Say what you want, but it obviously took away from the on-ice product.
The Leafs meanwhile are going to just beat the crap out of everyone on their way to the stanley cup ^_^
All kidding aside, this year is just another step in the right direction for Toronto. They will continue to play young players and try to establish ron wilsons system. Sound defence and aggressive forechecking. its about development and continuing to change the culture around the club. Players will be held more accountable than ever before and it will be another season of looking towards the light at the end of the tunnel. The development of Grabovski, Bozak, Gustavsson and Schenn will be focal points of the season.
The big difference I think is, at least the leafs know where they are in the tunnel, the habs seems kind of lost now...
we shall see. I just hope for a boatload of entertaining hockey this year, especially between the two clubs.
How long till 7752 brings sundin into the conversation...? hehe...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
I was revisitng this thread today and wanted to see how accurate some of my assesments were for our two favorite teams.
1. Plekanec really steppd up his game and carried much of the offensive load for montreal this year, while andrei kostitsyn was also able to provide some secondary scoring to go along with gionta and cammalerri. Even though the habs were the lowest scoring team 5 on 5 they had the 2nd best PP in the league.
2. Carey price. I guess I should had just put Jaroslav Halak there instead as he has done what I expected Carey Price to do. The goaltending in montreal has been the key to their success so far.
3.The team has absolutley bought into Jacques Martins system. 5 guys all below the faceoff dots, blocking shot and pushing all attackers to the outside. THis insulates the goalie and cuts down on quality scoring chances. If the habs were not playing this way, they probably would not have even made the playoffs let alone defeat washington.
In regards to my leafs, obviously they had a very disapointing season but the part i bolded above still holds true. This season was all about the future and not for the present, despite the bill of goods the media sold us in the summer. Burke had to clean out the old guard and did so in January by traded 6 players and adding Dion Phaneuf, Sjostrom and Keith Aullie as well as JS Giguere. Goaltending was the #1 problem for the leafs the first half of the season and once they had JS in net the team was on a playoff pace from the trade onwards. Jonas Gustavsson, Tyler Bozak, Luke Schenn and Carl Gunarsson all improved over the second half of the season and will be looking to make a big impression come training camp.
Montreal had a better season this year, there is no denying it. And even though my leafs finished 29th and only have Phil Kessel to show for it (not that that is a bad thing) I still feel they are trending upwards.
I want to ask hab fans, are you happy with the way your team is heading? I watch the habs and i see a team that just sits back and sits back and never attacks.... Martin is boring as hell and the team is relying so heavily on goaltending and the PP. Do you think you can sustain success in todays NHL by being so passive? What changes would you like to see if any?
|
| Odin |
Posted - 05/03/2010 : 11:59:18
well,
to those that pilloried me at the beginning of the year for thinking that the Habs are better then the Leafs and liking Gainey's signings........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
And for all you Leafs fans who jumped all over Gill, well the benefits right now are astounding. Moen? Playoff gold. Spacek? Well, they really want him back don't they?
I also got jumped on for saying the Rangers suck, well wouldn't you know it? That the Bruins will not be anywhere near where they were last year, well that holds too. I also said that the Flyers were not the powerhouse everybody was touting them to be, well lo and behold. Yes they are in the 2nd round, but the playoffs, as we know, are a different season. |
| Guest2228 |
Posted - 05/03/2010 : 08:54:30
Yeah let burke reconstruct the team in the next two-three years with no first pick for the next two years and no second pick this year... Even my little sister knew it was the worst trade in a while.... Who though the leafs were going to be good this year? NOBODY SO WHAY EXCHANGE YOUR FUTURE FOR A GUY NOW WHEN YOUR TEAM'S GONNA SUCK ANYWAY!!! Now boston are laughing out pretty loud being in the second round off the playoff and having Tyler Seguin waiting for us... Wow He shoots in the face of every easter team with this trade... and boston also have their second round pick this year WOW AND THEIR FIRST ONE NEXTTTT YEARRRRRRR TOOOOO WHAT A DUMB*SS!!! MY GODDD leafs are gonna suck next year too so are boston gonna pick in the five first next year too?? I THINK SOOO!!! All this for who??? KESSEL TO BE ABLE TO SIGN HIM FOR 5.5 MILLIONS I THINK!!! WOWWW could have Seguin for 800 000 for 3 years but NO lets pick Kessel a Heartless player who dont care for the team and probably wont be good in playoff... attaboy!!! Everybody knew it was a total miss... And for Komisarek!!! Ouachhhh everybody knew I sucked after being knocked out by Lucic... I wouldn't have sign him for 2 millions... now they're stuck with a D who cant even shot the puck to the net and cant even get a first pass!!! For 4.5 MILLIONS I THINK??? MY GODD GAINEY ALL THE WAY!!! |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 05/03/2010 : 08:14:59
Gainey also had like 7 years to build this team, brian is just starting year two.... how many times did bob try to build a winner and fall flat on his face before he actually managed to find some players with heart? Also, gainey wasnt even the GM who acquired dominic moore, so you cant give him any credit for that.
habs would be nowhere without halak and cammaleri, washington was outsmarted and out goaltended by the habs, but ill be 10x more shocked if they manage to beat pitt. still, ill admit, anything can happen.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest6346 |
Posted - 05/02/2010 : 12:50:43
quote:
Originally posted by Guest3652
Gainey is out...Burke win.
gainy`s team in in the second round of the playoffs, and the leafs have the second pick overall next year oh wait no they dont....... gainey wins by a mile |
| Guest3652 |
Posted - 05/01/2010 : 12:03:42
Gainey is out...Burke win. |
| Seventy7Fifty2 |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 12:27:04
Yep...
Gainey wins again!
Ex-Leaf GILL was huge in final game
Ex-Leaf MOORE scores series WINNER !!!!!!
this is indeed a historical win in infinite number of ways for GAINEY's Team....
 |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 01/12/2010 : 07:18:13
I understand what Gainey wanted in Gomez, gomez is a good hockey player I just dont think he is worth an 8 mil cap hit for years to come. Drury and Brieres contracts are just as bad, if not worse, but since we arent talking about the rangers or flyers i didnt bring them up....
Last year Gomez had 59 points, Matt Stajan had 55 for under 2 mil, thats all I was getting at. A day will come when Montreal could finally get that bonifide stud centreman but wont be able to sign him because they have so much tied up in Gomez, unless Gainey can find some wiggle room. Gomez is tied up until 2013-2014 when he will be 35 and most likley not producing anywhere near 70 points.
The old comment i made it mainly directed towards their blueline with guys like Spacek and Hamrlik playing out their last couple seasons as 35 year olds and Hal Gill being 34. But anyway, dont take that comment too far, I dont think it will cripple the team or anything, they have guys in the system to replace them.
anyways, i shall continue to bleed blue and white and watch with great interest as Burke continues to try and get my team back on track over the next year or two.
I think I saw a beans post a while back admitting he was wrong about something and how not many people on here do that, so I thought id try a slice of humble pie
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 13:35:09
Matt, while i "hate" the Leafs, i don't hate ALL of their fans! You my friend, gain huge respect for that last post! I totally respect a guy who can show his faith and see realistically what his team is doing. Kudos to you...
Here's what i see from these two storied franchises...... Sorry, but neither is gonna make the playoffs (IMO). Montreal currently holds down the 8th seed, but have a look at their GP's. They're just as close to 12th as they are 7th! The teams behind them could catch and pass them in points with wins in their games in hand! Granted, some are prob against each other, but seriously, there's 5 teams which mathematically could catch them for that 8th seed with wins in their games in hand! I just don't see the Habs as a playoff team. At the outset of the season, i had them in a battle for the 7th and 8th spot if i recall correctly, well, looks like that's where they are right now?
Be intersting to see how this plays out, but my midseason prediction is that the Leafs will be booking the tee times for both teams (they should finish lower than the Habs and therefore have to make the phone calls to the golf course). |
| Guest2622 |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 12:26:32
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Hey what can I say,
The habs are definatley looking better than toronto this year. But lets take a step back and bring something to the forefront here, this is a team Gainey has had years to construct, this is just Burkes first full season.
Things havent gone the way Burke and Leaf fans had hoped, the team isnt nearly as tough from top to bottom as it was hoped and the defence and goaltending have really let the club down. Luke Schenn has been just next to horrible and Vesa Toskala will probably be in the KHL next year, unless he is willing to take and Andrew Raycroft like discount at around $500 000 from another club.
Top end talent is sorley lacking and although Kessel impressed through his first 15 games as a leaf notching 10 goals he has dried up in a big way and the leafs have no secondary scoring to speak of. Hagman has also dried up and Grabovski is out with a broken wrist.
Needless to say, many in leaf nation are already looking forward to the trade deadline and the summer. Hard to keep the head held high.
Montreal looks decent, their OT record has really been the most impressive part of their season so far and is a big reason they are even in a playoff spot. They kept their heads above water with Markov out and he has paid big dividends since his return. Tomas Plekanec has been just awesome for the Habs, and to think they almost let him walk. He is in for a huge raise this summer. Halak has also played really well and the habs have to decide weather to deal him or hang on to him for a playoff run.
None of this changes the fact that Gomez' contract will still burden the club, 8 mil for a guy who is really just a slight notch above matt stajan or that a large chunk of the team is old and will need to be replaced over the next couple seasons or that the team isnt really built to survive a long run in the playoffs (no 4 on 4 OT or shootout), so it aint all rosey in Habland either, its just darker in Toronto.
But alas, looking at this season and this season alone you cant say that burkes team looks better than gaineys, but i ask that we reflect on this over the next 12 months because things can change in a big way over a summer.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Actually, because they have proven they can hang in tight games, that points to the fact that they may very well do well in the playoffs, regardless of the 4-4.
And I'm trying to figure out how in the world you can consider the Habs as old. They have 3 players at 35, one at 34 and one at 33. The rest are 30 or younger. This team will be together for a while. We also have some decent prospects coming up, so the couple we do lose will be no biggie.
And Gainey has already stated he will is stop his nonsense of not negotiating during the regular season to open up talks with Plekanec. I just hope TP isn't pulling some sort of contract year BS. |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 10:57:34
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Man does Gomez ever get beat up. No one says anything about Drury's contract, which is basically the same amount for the same talent. In fact, for less production. Daniel Briere anyone?? $10 million for him?? Wow.
Gomez is doing exactly what he always does. 50-70 points, great PK, solid player in all areas of the ice and a far under rated leader. Don't get me wrong, his salary is a little bit on the high end, but I don't think it's quite as crazy as people let on.
That's what hockey is about, it's not all numbers.
And obviously, those are the the qualities Gainey was after, which is something Burke will never quite understand and neither will Leaf fans.
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 09:49:16
Man does Gomez ever get beat up. No one says anything about Drury's contract, which is basically the same amount for the same talent. In fact, for less production. Daniel Briere anyone?? $10 million for him?? Wow.
Gomez is doing exactly what he always does. 50-70 points, great PK, solid player in all areas of the ice and a far under rated leader. Don't get me wrong, his salary is a little bit on the high end, but I don't think it's quite as crazy as people let on. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 05:33:18
Hey what can I say,
The habs are definatley looking better than toronto this year. But lets take a step back and bring something to the forefront here, this is a team Gainey has had years to construct, this is just Burkes first full season.
Things havent gone the way Burke and Leaf fans had hoped, the team isnt nearly as tough from top to bottom as it was hoped and the defence and goaltending have really let the club down. Luke Schenn has been just next to horrible and Vesa Toskala will probably be in the KHL next year, unless he is willing to take and Andrew Raycroft like discount at around $500 000 from another club.
Top end talent is sorley lacking and although Kessel impressed through his first 15 games as a leaf notching 10 goals he has dried up in a big way and the leafs have no secondary scoring to speak of. Hagman has also dried up and Grabovski is out with a broken wrist.
Needless to say, many in leaf nation are already looking forward to the trade deadline and the summer. Hard to keep the head held high.
Montreal looks decent, their OT record has really been the most impressive part of their season so far and is a big reason they are even in a playoff spot. They kept their heads above water with Markov out and he has paid big dividends since his return. Tomas Plekanec has been just awesome for the Habs, and to think they almost let him walk. He is in for a huge raise this summer. Halak has also played really well and the habs have to decide weather to deal him or hang on to him for a playoff run.
None of this changes the fact that Gomez' contract will still burden the club, 8 mil for a guy who is really just a slight notch above matt stajan or that a large chunk of the team is old and will need to be replaced over the next couple seasons or that the team isnt really built to survive a long run in the playoffs (no 4 on 4 OT or shootout), so it aint all rosey in Habland either, its just darker in Toronto.
But alas, looking at this season and this season alone you cant say that burkes team looks better than gaineys, but i ask that we reflect on this over the next 12 months because things can change in a big way over a summer.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Seventy7Fifty2 |
Posted - 01/10/2010 : 12:12:10
quote:
Originally posted by Seventy7Fifty2
wow... it never takes much to get leaf fans going...
at least you guys get to constantly see a replica of the cup in the HHOF - that's about as close as you'll ever get
mr. roberts does not need a towel anymore, i tihnk a pacifier will do instead.
i have an exercise for all you leaf fans to prove how stupid i really am:
why don't you all go to the Sundin Comedy forum and review your comments versus mine
I'll bet you'll learn a little more about how "educated" your comments were versus how "accurate" mine were regarding Sundin and the whole leaf nation...
eventually, around mid next season, we'll come back to this forum too and we'll all laugh together at our "educated" versus "accurate" comments
Well let’s review some of the GM-moves a little since we’re at the half of the season.
Burke’s moves:
Beauchemin – 19 points in 46 games and a -9 overall…. Good acquisition?
Primeau – 5 points in 35 games and a +1 overall… Great!
Komisarek – 4 points in 34 games and a -9 overall…. All-Star stats?!!
Exelby – 3 points in 26 games and a -3 overall… nice partner for Beauchemin!
Orr – 3 points in 26 games and a -3 overall…should be on Kessel’s line?
Kessel – 23 points in 34 games and a -2 overall…. Sunshine!!
Gustavsson – 8 & 9 over 25 games with 2.98 GAA… well worth the trip to go get him…
Leafs are 14th in the East, and 28th in the league.
Notable other numbers are:
Finger at -10
Schenn at 7 points and -1
Kaberle at 39 points!!
Leafs BIG WALL at “D” has supported team with 160 goals against in 46 games – that’s almost 3.5 goals per game. How’s that for Burke’s TOUGH “D” that will intimidate “small” forwards and bash them all over their defensive end!?!!??!
To top it all off, what did Burke do when the team ran into some injury issues… not much, played McDonald, etc…
Kessel and Kaberle are the only ones keeping this team from further embarrassment.
Gainey’s moves:
Gomez – 30 points in 43 games and a +1 overall… average, probably overpaid
Cammalleri – 37 points in 47 games and a +11 overall… not bad for a small guy
Gionta – 18 points in 26 games and a +4 overall… not bad for a small overpaid guy
Spacek – 12 points in 45 games and a +6 overall… not bad for an old guy
Moen – 10 points in 47 games and a -3 overall…still better than Orr
Mara – 7 points in 37 games and a -13 overall… at least he’s not an all-star
Gill – 3 points in 33 games and a -3 overall… what did you expect from an ex-leaf
Habs are 8th in the East, and 18th in the league.
Notable other numbers are:
Plekanec at 46 points in 47 games
Bergeron at 23 points in 40 games
Markov at 13 points in 12 games
Habs small forwards were going to get KILLED by the league??? Looks like the small “new” forwards including Plekanec have 46 of the total 119 goals so far AND none of them are hurting from any Leaf “D” hits…
What did Gainey do with injury issues? Singed Bergeron, traded for Pouliot, etc… he’s done “something” at least.
BUT - it's not over yet... Burke's Leafs can sink even further!!!! |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 06:32:02
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Glass half full?? Half full of what??? The good things on Anaheim (Perry, Getzlaf, et al) were there before or after Burke was there.
There is only one good thing that Burke did to Anaheim. Bobby Ryan. Other than that, they are a marginal team now and have to retool their team over the next few seasons through the draft.
They couldn't do it in the past few years because Burke gave away all their picks.
Seriously, I dig your opinion and it's valid. I just think you will feel the pain of the Burke method of building a hockey team in the next 5 years. It won't be fun.
sorry beans, the glass half full remark was meant for my views on the leafs, not neccessarily what i wrote about burke in anaheim.
ill give in to you on the burke thing anyways, after watching a horrible performance by the ducks last night its kind of hard to claim they are in good shape haha.
I really hope history does not repeat itself then, hopefully burke has learned from some of his mistakes and wont leave this team a bigger mess than when he took over (which would be really hard to do...)
Leafers capitialized big time last night, PP clicked finally and they forechecked like madmen. It was a sight for sore eyes....
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest7281 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 15:09:22
0-7-1 |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 14:58:06
Glass half full?? Half full of what??? The good things on Anaheim (Perry, Getzlaf, et al) were there before or after Burke was there.
There is only one good thing that Burke did to Anaheim. Bobby Ryan. Other than that, they are a marginal team now and have to retool their team over the next few seasons through the draft.
They couldn't do it in the past few years because Burke gave away all their picks.
Seriously, I dig your opinion and it's valid. I just think you will feel the pain of the Burke method of building a hockey team in the next 5 years. It won't be fun. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 13:33:25
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
well....
poor burke.....
both of his "top" goalies are injured and what has he done?
nothing ----
he's playing mcdonald with ??? as his backup (i tihnk i saw Sundin trying on goalie pads at the last leaf's game)...
whereas, poor gainey....
his TOP player gets injured for many months - and the world knocks off the habs ....so what has gainey done?
He singed M.A. Bergeron, and guess what....??
HUGE impact...!!! What a genius!!!!!
Yes - Gainey wins once again....!!!!!
what a joke to even compare these 2 GM's... burke is such an amateur when compared to gainey
your right. gainey wins. topic over.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 13:06:46
well....
poor burke.....
both of his "top" goalies are injured and what has he done?
nothing ----
he's playing mcdonald with ??? as his backup (i tihnk i saw Sundin trying on goalie pads at the last leaf's game)...
whereas, poor gainey....
his TOP player gets injured for many months - and the world knocks off the habs ....so what has gainey done?
He singed M.A. Bergeron, and guess what....??
HUGE impact...!!! What a genius!!!!!
Yes - Gainey wins once again....!!!!!
what a joke to even compare these 2 GM's... burke is such an amateur when compared to gainey |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 12:57:20
Jeez, i have to fight off everyone here.
"Way to bash my comments, which actually said the same thing as you. Basically, Burke took a massive gamble to get a guy who is still fairly unproven, and sold away 3 potentially valuable picks to do it. Obviously it will take years to figure out who wins this deal, but on the surface it seems pretty bad for the leafs. Do you really think Kessell is going to bring 3 goals a game and get the leafs above .500 alone? Im not sure any one player in the league could do that.
Even if you think the leafs might climb back to respectabilty, with this start its going to be very difficult for them not to be a lottery team. If you are in the lottery, you can win #1, not much to argue about there.
Kessell is a good, solid young player, the leafs just overpaid for him. If he becomes a 50 goal man then it will be worth it. If Taylor Hall becomes a 100 point man... maybe not."
Well, you are saying that Kessel is unproven, just how exactly are those picks proven? the way you state it make it seem like those picks are guaranteed successful NHL players and Kessel, at 21 years old with a 36 goal season under his belt, is already a bust. thats all i was saying. It didnt really sound like you said the same thing. Also, you are assuming that toronto is going to finish last and Boston will draft Taylor Hall. Taylor Hall isnt even projected to be as good as Steven Stamkos and stamkos struggled in his first year.
The year the ducks won the stanley cup they lost 7 or 8 games in a row TWICE that season. Seriously, its still reallllly early.
Nobody expects kessel to score 3 goals a game and bring the team back to .500 alone, honestly kessel is a peice of the puzzle for the future moving forward, he wasnt brought here to save this season alone. kessel will be valuable 5 on 5 and on the powerplay. If the leafs have kessel on the powerplay saturday against vancouver they probably tie that game..... obviously not for sure, but you see what I mean? It makes a difference, especially when a couple more peices get added before next season.
As far as Marc Savard is concerned, i still beleive that for a good passer to really excel at the level savard has, he needs a guy who puts the puck in the net. Savard was NOT gift wrapping garbage goals for kessel. Far from hit. Sure savard could hit Kessel in full speed, but it was Kessel who turned defencemen into pretzels and unleashed an awesome wrist shot. He also had Kovalchuck doing that for him in Atlanta.
No doubt savard is a great player, but i think all this talk of "Kessel is nothing without Svaard' is total bull. The guy was touted as a #1 overall pick most of his draft year, he wasnt playing with savard then. He also scored some amazing goals while playing for team USA, no savard there either. Besides, Burke will make sure he gets a guy to play with Kessel.
Beans -
Burke also added Selanne, Todd Marchant and Brad May and brought the rough and tough culture to anaheim that murray would never have done. The whole truculence theme he started in anaheim was instrumental in delivering a cup to the ducks. Not to mention that Pahlsson and Moen were HUGE peices to that cup win, they shut down everyone they played against. Without them, I dont think they even make it out of the west.
He also got fedorov off the roster and brought in Jonas Hiller.
Of course I will recognize that murray added alot of peices to that ducks team through the draft and did a great job of starting the foundation there, burke just finished it off. And he made it seem alot easier than it probably was. If you remember Pronger was gift wrapped for the leafs yet JFJ decided Kaberle and Steen were worth more than Pronger.... so obviously that was a trade that could be screwed up.
he left the team in big time cap trouble, but obviously not bad enough that Bob Murray couldnt fix it in half a season. between the trade deadline last year and this past summer the ducks managed to fill all their holes and still have an impressive team. It doesnt really seem like that big of a deal to me..... everyone seems to love it when Bob Gainey does the same thing.
im not delusional, im just giving my glass half full point of view
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 11:27:05
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6591
whick team has burke not srewed up?
why did leafs think he'd do any good in toronto?
sorry leaf fans, it back to square one next year - kick burke & wilson out and start all over again
the one that won a stanley cup
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
The one that one the Stanley Cup was built by Brian Murray. Burke stepped in an added Pronger (gift wrapped trade), Niedermayer(Gift Wrapped UFA), Moen, and Pahlsson. Virtually all the other players were there.
Look at them now?? The new GM has to sramble with trades and UFA this year to remain competative. Did you know that Burke left the Ducks with every forward except Perry, Getzlaf, Ryan, and Selanne as a UFA!!! Also left all but 2 defensemen as UFA's as well.
Burke did the same thing to the Canucks. Trust me and mark my words, there will be success in TO under Burke. It might take time, but it will come. However, it will be very shorted lived. The guy can build a team, but he can't keep it strong and he will get the eff out of dodge before the decline. |
| Guest2622 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 11:19:41
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9655
This thread is getting more spectacular the longer the leafs go without a single win. There seems to be a legitimate chance that the leafs will end up giving a first overall pick + 2 more picks for phil kessel. Boston absolutely robbed Toronto blind on that deal. I liked where burke was going with the team prior to the Kessel deal, by the way. No need to panic, ride out a few bad years with solid draft picks (Schenn, Kadri) and acquiring young talent (the monster).
Too bad Burke jumped the gun and sold the farm to get one undersized, injury-prone guy who has one season with 36 goals.... and one with 19. And that was with one of the premier playmakers in the league (savard) setting him up.... Its going to be a long, painful year(s) for leaf nation im afraid. Burke screwed up badly, how badly will only become clear with time.
wow, where to go with this.
first of all, there is a good chance that none of those picks the leafs gave up ever turn into anything even close to as good as Phil Kessel. Wait and see before passing this final judgement on the deal. Boston lost its #1 goal scorer and best young player. Marc Savard isnt nearly as effective without a bonifide sniper beside him.
Obviously the leafs look like s*** right now but the last time i checked you dont end the season until all 82 games are played. And you dont judge traded involving draft picks until the picks are at least selected and given a couple years to develop.
Anyways, keep the leaf bashing coming
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Sorry, I just can't agree with that statement about Savard. He could make ME look good, yet alone a bonafide NHLer. What does the guy have to do to get any respect?
I said it when it happened, and now it is even more so. The Bruins COMPLETELY fleeced the Leafs with the Kessel trade, and the further the Leafs drop, the worse it gets. That, in itself, is the ONLY reason why Chiarelli traded within the division.
Further, perhaps Gainey os EVEN more of a genious for letting Komy go than we thought. Could it be that Markov is SO good that he covered up for Komy more than we ever knew? Since Komy has been crap in T.O., and since the Habs don't have Markov at this point, I think this may have actually tirned out better for the Habs than anybody owuld have thought.
Its also looking like the signing of MA Bergeron has turned out to be a masterstroke at $750 000.
LOL!!! GO HABS!!!!!!!!! |
| Guest9655 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 11:08:08
Way to bash my comments, which actually said the same thing as you. Basically, Burke took a massive gamble to get a guy who is still fairly unproven, and sold away 3 potentially valuable picks to do it. Obviously it will take years to figure out who wins this deal, but on the surface it seems pretty bad for the leafs. Do you really think Kessell is going to bring 3 goals a game and get the leafs above .500 alone? Im not sure any one player in the league could do that.
Even if you think the leafs might climb back to respectabilty, with this start its going to be very difficult for them not to be a lottery team. If you are in the lottery, you can win #1, not much to argue about there.
Kessell is a good, solid young player, the leafs just overpaid for him. If he becomes a 50 goal man then it will be worth it. If Taylor Hall becomes a 100 point man... maybe not. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 09:39:14
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6591
whick team has burke not srewed up?
why did leafs think he'd do any good in toronto?
sorry leaf fans, it back to square one next year - kick burke & wilson out and start all over again
the one that won a stanley cup
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 09:38:31
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I agree that the season is 82 games long and it is still early, but it is dangerously close to hitting the panic button.
10 pts out of the playoffs is VERY difficult to dig out from at any time. Look at the Senators last year. Their first 20 games were horrible. After than, they were average and between Feb and April, they were the best team in the league. They still finished out of the playoffs!
Bottom line, the Burke did a bit of a gamble on Kessel and until he plays, produces, and the Leafs improve, it isn't looking like much of a deal.
If ANY of the picks turn into a top 5 pick, it's a great deal for Boston. I know there are the Daigles and Falloons out there. But face it, the vast majority of players picked in the top 5-10 become bonified NHL players.
I hear ya beans, im just trying to stay optimistic for the sake of my sanity. I have all but given up on playoffs already which really pisses me off because I was hoping for an exciting season with the playoff window being open until at least late march early april. I just want a win....
Im still hoping that a) the picks arent any higher than 10....
and b) Phil Kessel is the best hockey player out of any of the 3 guys that Boston will get. As long as Kessel turns out to be the best of the bunch, it will be ok for me.
But yes, there is no doubt that the leafs are already knocking on deaths door and its only october but I still think they will string together some wins and start to at least push towards .500
I just want to remind everyone that the leafs are a loss away from tying the all time consecutive loss record se by the... ahem.... 1967 maple leafs.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 08:41:25
I agree that the season is 82 games long and it is still early, but it is dangerously close to hitting the panic button.
10 pts out of the playoffs is VERY difficult to dig out from at any time. Look at the Senators last year. Their first 20 games were horrible. After than, they were average and between Feb and April, they were the best team in the league. They still finished out of the playoffs!
Bottom line, the Burke did a bit of a gamble on Kessel and until he plays, produces, and the Leafs improve, it isn't looking like much of a deal.
If ANY of the picks turn into a top 5 pick, it's a great deal for Boston. I know there are the Daigles and Falloons out there. But face it, the vast majority of players picked in the top 5-10 become bonified NHL players. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 08:18:45
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9655
This thread is getting more spectacular the longer the leafs go without a single win. There seems to be a legitimate chance that the leafs will end up giving a first overall pick + 2 more picks for phil kessel. Boston absolutely robbed Toronto blind on that deal. I liked where burke was going with the team prior to the Kessel deal, by the way. No need to panic, ride out a few bad years with solid draft picks (Schenn, Kadri) and acquiring young talent (the monster).
Too bad Burke jumped the gun and sold the farm to get one undersized, injury-prone guy who has one season with 36 goals.... and one with 19. And that was with one of the premier playmakers in the league (savard) setting him up.... Its going to be a long, painful year(s) for leaf nation im afraid. Burke screwed up badly, how badly will only become clear with time.
wow, where to go with this.
first of all, there is a good chance that none of those picks the leafs gave up ever turn into anything even close to as good as Phil Kessel. Wait and see before passing this final judgement on the deal. Boston lost its #1 goal scorer and best young player. Marc Savard isnt nearly as effective without a bonifide sniper beside him.
Obviously the leafs look like s*** right now but the last time i checked you dont end the season until all 82 games are played. And you dont judge traded involving draft picks until the picks are at least selected and given a couple years to develop.
Anyways, keep the leaf bashing coming
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest6591 |
Posted - 10/25/2009 : 08:29:53
whick team has burke not srewed up?
why did leafs think he'd do any good in toronto?
sorry leaf fans, it back to square one next year - kick burke & wilson out and start all over again |
| Guest9655 |
Posted - 10/24/2009 : 03:49:51
This thread is getting more spectacular the longer the leafs go without a single win. There seems to be a legitimate chance that the leafs will end up giving a first overall pick + 2 more picks for phil kessel. Boston absolutely robbed Toronto blind on that deal. I liked where burke was going with the team prior to the Kessel deal, by the way. No need to panic, ride out a few bad years with solid draft picks (Schenn, Kadri) and acquiring young talent (the monster).
Too bad Burke jumped the gun and sold the farm to get one undersized, injury-prone guy who has one season with 36 goals.... and one with 19. And that was with one of the premier playmakers in the league (savard) setting him up.... Its going to be a long, painful year(s) for leaf nation im afraid. Burke screwed up badly, how badly will only become clear with time. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 10:16:54
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
Interesting Stats for all Burke / Leaf followers:
Since Gainey had made moves that more or less the Leaf fans equate as a creation of a "small" team that will be bounced around by most other teams, especially the mightly Leafs that Burke created - here are some intersting numbers for y'all Leaf fans to consider:
- Montreal with (4) games in, has OUT-HIT opponents by 80 hits to 67 hits.
- Toronto with (3) games in, has been OUT-HIT by opponents by 99 hits to 71 hits !!!!
- In particular, Montreal OUT-HIT Toronto last week by 37 Hits to 22 hits!!!
Way to build a threatening team Burke!!!! Yeah!!!!
But Leafs fans don't see this or hear about it, because the media didn't tell them...
And yes, Gainey once again out-smarts Burke!
well, i knew that and im upset about it. the leafs havent been what ive expected so far and i hope it changed. i dont need the media to tell me to check the gamesheets....
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 08:34:34
Interesting Stats for all Burke / Leaf followers:
Since Gainey had made moves that more or less the Leaf fans equate as a creation of a "small" team that will be bounced around by most other teams, especially the mightly Leafs that Burke created - here are some intersting numbers for y'all Leaf fans to consider:
- Montreal with (4) games in, has OUT-HIT opponents by 80 hits to 67 hits.
- Toronto with (3) games in, has been OUT-HIT by opponents by 99 hits to 71 hits !!!!
- In particular, Montreal OUT-HIT Toronto last week by 37 Hits to 22 hits!!!
Way to build a threatening team Burke!!!! Yeah!!!!
But Leafs fans don't see this or hear about it, because the media didn't tell them...
And yes, Gainey once again out-smarts Burke!
|
| Guest2764 |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 04:34:31
No hiding here Slozo. I admit I was wrong. I really didn't believe the Bruins would make a inter division trade. However I also never thought they would get 2 first round picks either. Toronto wins in the short term will see in a few years if it was a great move by buke.I was guest 2770 |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 21:27:28
Agreed Redneck. Above the TO picks, Boston get their own picks as well. In the next two draft, Boston will have 4 of the top 60 players and 6 in the top 120. Might not sound like much, but that's how teams like Detroit stayed good for a decade.
It wasn't one sided at all. Both teams got exactly what they were looking for.
|
| redneck76ca |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 21:18:37
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
To Guest 7752, and Guest 2770:
You were just plain wrong!
Burke stole away Montreal's toughest young defenceman, a guy who would have been in the running for captain if he had stayed with the Habs; and now they took away Kessel from the powerhouse Bruins in their division as well.
I know, I know . . . you'll never apologise publicly, but: you'll always be able to hide behind anonymity, so no worries!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
They definitely took away Komi but they traded for Kessel. Hardly taking away. Good move on Boston's side and good move on Burke. Boston gets a top ten pick next year and then the following year somewhere in the late teens or early twenties. Considering Boston stands to lose some more talent with contracts up next year, the picks will help replenish the team. For Burke, the team acquires their first true top line player and a potential 50 goal scorer for 3 picks that may have not amounted to anything. Considering what Foppa, Hossa and Tkachuk went for as rental players this is a good trade off for the Leafs. They don't need the picks, they have some good young forwards developing making the picks expendable. I still foresee Burke moving a Dman and maybe someone else to shore up the top line. A veteran center might do the trick.....Kessel Allison Stempniak? |
| n/a |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 19:38:59
To Guest 7752, and Guest 2770:
You were just plain wrong!
Burke stole away Montreal's toughest young defenceman, a guy who would have been in the running for captain if he had stayed with the Habs; and now they took away Kessel from the powerhouse Bruins in their division as well.
I know, I know . . . you'll never apologise publicly, but: you'll always be able to hide behind anonymity, so no worries!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| redneck76ca |
Posted - 09/06/2009 : 00:10:06
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I have to agree that I am dreaming a bit about the possibility of Toronto getting Kessel . . . but if Beantown (that's Boston, since you don't know about that, 7752) gets desperate about only getting some picks for Kessel (to stay cheap under the cap but get at least something in return) . . . well, who knows what magic Burke can conjure up?
You forget, oh faithful, that the Kessel deal was good to go if Toronto overpaid by dealing Kaberle and Schenn . . . if things get desperate, and instead of getting picks Boston can land a 3rd or 4th defenceman in White that is a proven, good commodity - who says a deal can't be made (with picks on the side, probably)?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
On Boston's depth chart at D, White is at best #5. I think Burke has something up his sleeve though. Check out TSN.ca. |
| n/a |
Posted - 09/05/2009 : 22:00:07
I have to agree that I am dreaming a bit about the possibility of Toronto getting Kessel . . . but if Beantown (that's Boston, since you don't know about that, 7752) gets desperate about only getting some picks for Kessel (to stay cheap under the cap but get at least something in return) . . . well, who knows what magic Burke can conjure up?
You forget, oh faithful, that the Kessel deal was good to go if Toronto overpaid by dealing Kaberle and Schenn . . . if things get desperate, and instead of getting picks Boston can land a 3rd or 4th defenceman in White that is a proven, good commodity - who says a deal can't be made (with picks on the side, probably)?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest2770 |
Posted - 09/05/2009 : 04:24:34
Have to sgree. There is no way Kessel is going to a northeast team, especially if Boston has to dump him becuase of salary. I could see him going out west for a packsge of picks. Maybe a 2nd and 3rd rounder. |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 10:31:19
that's right.....
of all the teams to deal kessel to, Boston would deal him to Toronto...!!
Keep dreaming leaf fans |
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