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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
 Posted - 07/18/2009 : 17:44:02
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Well, lots of talk in bean-town about major moves, but nothing to show that Burke is working his so-called magic.
However, Gainey is making moves after move to enhave the habs' positioning next season.
I just love how Burke is using the media to raise "his" players value. But nothing materializes... what a moron!!
On the other hand, and in complete contrast, Gainey is making amazing moves adding speed, scoring, etc.. on the front - and adding real "D" muscle at the back... HAAA!!!!!!
Poor leafs....!!!!
By the way, it was the leaf fans that raised the most crap when Komi made the all-star team. They were the loudest when it came to opposing his selection due to lack of talent... well now he's all yours!!!!
How's that for a Gainey vs Burke move??
Once again, Gainey has out-classed Burke!
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 03:32:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Seventy7Fifty2
Well, lots of talk in bean-town about major moves, but nothing to show that Burke is working his so-called magic.
However, Gainey is making moves after move to enhave the habs' positioning next season.
I just love how Burke is using the media to raise "his" players value. But nothing materializes... what a moron!!
On the other hand, and in complete contrast, Gainey is making amazing moves adding speed, scoring, etc.. on the front - and adding real "D" muscle at the back... HAAA!!!!!!
Poor leafs....!!!!
By the way, it was the leaf fans that raised the most crap when Komi made the all-star team. They were the loudest when it came to opposing his selection due to lack of talent... well now he's all yours!!!!
How's that for a Gainey vs Burke move??
Once again, Gainey has out-classed Burke!
All I have got to say is, are you kidding me. Although I like the moves that Gainey did I thought the moves that Burke made did better to improve his club.
I am not so sure the Habs have improved either. They lost some key pieces that I am not sure they totally replaced. Kovalev in particular is a talent that I think will be missed in Montreal. Gainey also never solved his goatending problems. I hope Carey rebounds this year but he definetly struggled last year and had no solid replacement. You also must concede that losing Komisarek on the back end hurts the Habs considerably. The reason people were up in arms about his all star appearance was because of the stupid voting and the fact that there were other "stars" overlooked. But I remember in these forums a lot were happy to see a hard working, defensive, defencemen get in for once.
Burke on the other hand totally revamped the defense into a solid, hard nosed, hard to play against squad and kept tons of depth at that position as well. If Gustavsson is the goalie everyone says he is then goaltending woes are solved. The lack of a bonified top scorer is offset by the signing of the youngsters to add depth and future. He managed to do this without giving much away at all.
So in my opinion Burke won this round. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 15:05:04
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I think only time will tell on this, however it will be a hard race to judge. Face it, Montreal had a lot more to work with than TO. As far as the players picked up at UFA's, I agree that the PLAYERS Gainey picked up higher skilled, but that doesn't make them better unless they win. And as I said, Burke and TO are still legitimately a year or two away still.
Granted, Gainey has played his final hand. If Montreal tanks, with many new players and a new coach, he will be gone. |
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Posted - 07/20/2009 : 05:48:08
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Seventy7Fifty2 . . . you're opinion looks to be worth about only two cents of that. Poor trolling, and probably the dupe account of Odin or some other similarly tortured Habs fan. Sure sounds like Odin with that "D muscle at the back" line . . . lol. Gill as muscle? Better than Komisarek? rofl Don't worry, you'll see . . .
I sincerely hope that the Habs don't start to go downhill like I think they might soon . . . it would be nice to get back that good rivalry between two contenders like we had in the early 90's.
Burke has been full value in my mind, and although I don't think Gainey has really failed yet, he certainly hasn't played his cards that well, in my mind. The free agent mess was one of his own making, and half the team is totally new this year . . . it might work, it might not.
I'm betting that it doesn't pan out very well.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 07:12:06
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Seventy7Fifty2 . . . you're opinion looks to be worth about only two cents of that. Poor trolling, and probably the dupe account of Odin or some other similarly tortured Habs fan. Sure sounds like Odin with that "D muscle at the back" line . . . lol. Gill as muscle? Better than Komisarek? rofl Don't worry, you'll see . . .
I sincerely hope that the Habs don't start to go downhill like I think they might soon . . . it would be nice to get back that good rivalry between two contenders like we had in the early 90's.
Burke has been full value in my mind, and although I don't think Gainey has really failed yet, he certainly hasn't played his cards that well, in my mind. The free agent mess was one of his own making, and half the team is totally new this year . . . it might work, it might not.
I'm betting that it doesn't pan out very well.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
i'll take that bet,, say a 24 or coors?? haha honestly i think Burke did a great job this off season he didn;t do anything dumb like give Gaborik a 5 year 60 million dollar deal, he is doing what he did everywhere start at the back end and build a tough team i honestly think he is missing scorers but rome was not built in one day and if i were i leafs fan i would rather him stick to the plan and slwly build a young strong tough North American team like it seems he is trying to do, and this is coming from a habs fan,, and on a side note 2 yrs ago when we were in first place (habs fan i am) i was saying Carbo and Gainey were both terrible for montreal,, this years moves however were the best Bob or anyone could do given the situation but bob's poor management was what got us in the situation my prediction habs finish 6th or 7th and leafs finish 9th and i think thats a fair assesment
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Posted - 07/20/2009 : 07:36:09
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Pasty - you are saving my opinion of Habs fans, at least you are not living in a dream world. I didn't make any grand predictions about the Leafs finishing higher than the Habs, btw - I am of the opinion they will be fighting for the same playoff spots, #10-7. I choose defence over offence and go with the Leafs, but really it's a toss-up for me until I see both teams play the first 25 games or so. I also think that if Montreal finishes at your best projected level - 6th - would that be much of an improvement from last year really? Especially since you'd still be playing one of the division winners in the first round, who will all be very tough to beat.
btw Seventy7Fifty2 - wouldn't "bean-town" be Boston? 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 10:56:32
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Bean-town...that's Boston. Anyone else know Boston got a new GM named Burke? lol
Serious, if you're gunna talk trash, at least get the city right...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 10:58:10
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Seventy7Fifty2 . . . you're opinion looks to be worth about only two cents of that. Poor trolling, and probably the dupe account of Odin or some other similarly tortured Habs fan. Sure sounds like Odin with that "D muscle at the back" line . . . lol. Gill as muscle? Better than Komisarek? rofl Don't worry, you'll see . . .
I sincerely hope that the Habs don't start to go downhill like I think they might soon . . . it would be nice to get back that good rivalry between two contenders like we had in the early 90's.
Burke has been full value in my mind, and although I don't think Gainey has really failed yet, he certainly hasn't played his cards that well, in my mind. The free agent mess was one of his own making, and half the team is totally new this year . . . it might work, it might not.
I'm betting that it doesn't pan out very well.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo, sound a little bitter to me. Reality sinking in the the Leafs suck? |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 12:58:42
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Odin, the only bitterness is your frothing at the mouth whenever a Leaf fan says anything about anything. Point out the exact sentence where I sound bitter?
"reality sinking in that the Leafs suck?"
Now that sounds bitter, particularly since I have never made any projection for next season (so far) other than I think the Leafs will be fighting for a playoff spot.
Knock the chip off your shoulder, dude.
And by the way - "real" D muscle can skate and check, and doesn't just stand around the net to collect rebounds while avoiding contact. Yeah, Gill had a great little playoff run . . . but reality will sink in, you'll see. There is a reason teams get rid of such a big man so quickly . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 13:21:00
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Seventy7Fifty2 . . . you're opinion looks to be worth about only two cents of that. Poor trolling, and probably the dupe account of Odin or some other similarly tortured Habs fan. Sure sounds like Odin with that "D muscle at the back" line . . . lol. Gill as muscle? Better than Komisarek? rofl Don't worry, you'll see .
Right there slozo.
I can take questioning of the Habs roster. With that sort of turnover, there ARE going to be questions. You and Rambo got your knickers in a knot because I said you were planning the parade. yiu need to get over yourselves. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 13:22:14
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| and there you go on about the muscle thing again. Find one quote where I said that. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 17:01:53
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Adding meat and adding muscle . . . you're really quibbling over that?
I will hold you to just your "meat" comment then, as weird as that sounds . . . The Canadiens have added "meat" to their D, because Gill is 6'7", 240 lbs, and Spacek is 5'11", 206 lbs, and Mara is 6'4", 219 lbs.
Meat it is. And while you're at it, quit planning a parade route for your Habs . . . that meat will be shishkebab by the end of the season, dude. Sliced, diced, seasoned and grilled, lol.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 21:33:13
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Adding meat and adding muscle . . . you're really quibbling over that?
I will hold you to just your "meat" comment then, as weird as that sounds . . . The Canadiens have added "meat" to their D, because Gill is 6'7", 240 lbs, and Spacek is 5'11", 206 lbs, and Mara is 6'4", 219 lbs.
Meat it is. And while you're at it, quit planning a parade route for your Habs . . . that meat will be shishkebab by the end of the season, dude. Sliced, diced, seasoned and grilled, lol.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Ok, so if the "Meat" in Montreal will become a shishkebab, are the "Vegetables" in Toronto going to get sliced, diced, and julienned into a salad???
Couldn't resist!
By the way, I don't agree with much this Seventy7Fifty2 said, but this was classic. Also true in many cases. I could go back and find a ton of posts from the All Star game about how bad Komisarek was. Now, he's brilliant. Isn't it ironic??
quote:
By the way, it was the leaf fans that raised the most crap when Komi made the all-star team. They were the loudest when it came to opposing his selection due to lack of talent... well now he's all yours!!!!
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Edited by - Beans15 on 07/20/2009 21:36:13 |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 04:27:34
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I've never ever said one thing about Komisarek before July 09. Go ahead and search.
And as other people said then (I remember the thread well), the fact was stated many times by reputable posters that it wasn't so much that Komisarek was bad - he was a solid, defensive defenceman with grit - it was just that there were more deserving choices, that at the time unfortunately weren't bleu blanc et rouge.
And Beans, I don't assign edible product monikers to my favourite team, that would be the foible of other people on this site named after mythological Greek gods 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4182
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Posted - 07/21/2009 : 05:47:58
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
And Beans, I don't assign edible product monikers to my favourite team, that would be the foible of other people on this site named after mythological Greek gods
If you are referring to Odin, that would be Norse not Greek. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 07:39:59
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well, 7752 is the same dude who spent much of the season trying to piss off leaf fans for his own enjoyment, so i dont really get all bent out of shape when he starts another post ripping on the leafs.
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The way I view it, is that the Habs kind of went sideways. I dont really see them being any better or any worse. While the Leafs have definatley gained ground and have improved their club.
For the habs to really improve this year they need 3 things to happen.
1. The support players need to put up points during important stretches of the season. Plekanec especially. He and the Kostitsyns really need to support the 3 new FA's. If it is just the Cammalerri, Gomez and GIonta show, the habs are done.
2. Carey Price needs to prove that he is capable of playing 65 games and having strong numbers in the NHL. 2.60 gaa and a .910 sv percentage. I know its a bit of a cliche, but its true. The Habs need him to be strong in goal and really cement himself as one of the top 10 netminder in the NHL.
3. The entire team needs to buy into Jacques Martin. The D is average at best and they will need to have the forwards coming back hard in their own zone to support a proper breakout. He also needs to erase the attitude that took over the team in the second half of last year. It should be easy to do since half of last years team is now gone. It just cant be another year of scandals and tabloid bullcrap dominating headlines in Montreal. Say what you want, but it obviously took away from the on-ice product.
The Leafs meanwhile are going to just beat the crap out of everyone on their way to the stanley cup ^_^
All kidding aside, this year is just another step in the right direction for Toronto. They will continue to play young players and try to establish ron wilsons system. Sound defence and aggressive forechecking. its about development and continuing to change the culture around the club. Players will be held more accountable than ever before and it will be another season of looking towards the light at the end of the tunnel. The development of Grabovski, Bozak, Gustavsson and Schenn will be focal points of the season.
The big difference I think is, at least the leafs know where they are in the tunnel, the habs seems kind of lost now...
we shall see. I just hope for a boatload of entertaining hockey this year, especially between the two clubs.
How long till 7752 brings sundin into the conversation...? hehe...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
Edited by - Matt_Roberts85 on 07/21/2009 07:52:57 |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 09:30:47
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Adding meat and adding muscle . . . you're really quibbling over that?
I will hold you to just your "meat" comment then, as weird as that sounds . . . The Canadiens have added "meat" to their D, because Gill is 6'7", 240 lbs, and Spacek is 5'11", 206 lbs, and Mara is 6'4", 219 lbs.
Meat it is. And while you're at it, quit planning a parade route for your Habs . . . that meat will be shishkebab by the end of the season, dude. Sliced, diced, seasoned and grilled, lol.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Yes, size has a different application than stength. You can't argue that he has a massive wing-span and for a defensive d-man, that does nothing but help. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 09:35:48
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I've never ever said one thing about Komisarek before July 09. Go ahead and search.
And as other people said then (I remember the thread well), the fact was stated many times by reputable posters that it wasn't so much that Komisarek was bad - he was a solid, defensive defenceman with grit - it was just that there were more deserving choices, that at the time unfortunately weren't bleu blanc et rouge.
And Beans, I don't assign edible product monikers to my favourite team, that would be the foible of other people on this site named after mythological Greek gods
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
By the way, Slozo, I said 'beef.' That is a farily common term in sports when you're talking about size. Lose the bitterness my friend. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 09:39:20
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Matt,
that was a fairly level headed analysis. There isn't much I disagree with. I especially agree with you in that the team needs to buy into Martin's system. That is one of the things that I have been chirping about. Because of the new system coming in, I think that bringing Gomez and Gionta in, because of their background in Jersey's defensive system was a masterstroke. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 05:48:53
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Guest 4182, you ruined a perfectly good troll there, but I can more than forgive that after you made me laugh out loud at your "wedding comment" re: the Heatley trade.
Good to see that Odin finally agrees with Matt Roberts' take on it, which is also pretty close to my own: the Habs went mostly sideways, and the Leafs got tougher and better . . . which should put them both in exactly the same spot as I have predicted - fighting for a playoff spot.
No doubt Gomez and Gionta will fit in with Jacques Martin's defensive system . . . but wasn't that one of the reasons Gomez left a few years back? Didn't he sort of want to leave the trap behind? And to make the trap/defensive system work, you need a hard working fast defense, and I don't know that Montreal has all the player who fit right into that mold. But, we'll see. There is no doubt that Martin in the past has been very successful with his brand of boring - watching paint dry boring - hockey. How long before some of the old players get frustrated with their new assignments and how long the Montreal fans put up with boring hockey is anyone's guess . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 07:36:11
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Hold on leaf fans... calm down a little.
Although your comments are very strong, I am NOT (NOT!!!) talking about how things will pan out in the future.
I am talking about what has been done.
You guys get all worked up about how good Burke's moves "should" be, and how things will improve... I'm talking about what has been done.
And so far, Gainey has (as usual) out-done the leafs management moves.
I'm not saying the habs will be better than the leafs next season, and I'm not saying the habs will win the cup. You guys get so defensive about your beloved leafs, and you jump to the future so quick, it's unbelievable!!
You guys remind me of young boys with premature ejacualtion issues...
Calm down.... let's stick to my comments on the moves made. Let's not jump to parades, and cups, and best of all - let's not drop any personal attacks as I never made any personal attacks to anyone in the forums. (except for personal attacks on Sundin!) |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 10:24:09
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You havent made any personal attacks, yet....somehow we all remind you of premature ejaculating young boys? You sir, are f***ed up.
Quite frankly, when examining the moves that a GM makes on July 1st, you have to look long term. Picking up Gomez' contract could have a negative effect on the Habs cap for another 5 years. For a guy who had what....58 points? Hal Gill and Travis Moen aren't really much to get excited about (no matter how hard you try to justify it). Moen is good for like...15 points and some good forechecking, and Hal Gill will kill penalties and shoot the puck off the glass...woopdy doo.
Gainey made some good moves on paper, but like ive already said, who knows how things will shake down once the season starts. Thats why you have to look ahead.
The leafs meanwhile, also made some key signings that are worth getting excited about. The thought of Kaberle-Komisarek, Schenn-Beauchimen, White-Exelby patrolling our blueline just puts a smile on leaf fans faces. We are going to be a smarter and tougher team from the backend. Signing Gustavsson to a very reasonable contract could very well turn out to be the BEST signing any GM made all summer. This kid has the potential to come in and be the next Lundqvist.
Burke is still looking for some help up front, and while he still has time to do something Im content to wait until next summer. It is not reasonable to expect Burke to fix the mess that JFJ left him in 1 summer. Gainey meanwhile, made his own giant mess and has been scambling to fix it without shooting himself in the head.
Dont forget, Gainey is the guy who has let Souray, Streit, Komisarek, Kovalev and Koivu all walk for nothing in return. He also traded his #1 goalie before the playoffs 2 years ago only to let 20 year old carey price get shelled by the flyers. Not to mention he had to fire his coach who couldnt get his players to be a little more diciplined.
With the way the last year has shaken down, and how things appear moving forward, I dont think the habs are lightyears ahead of the leafs AT ALL. (not saying that anyone said that, im just giving my opinion).
If anything gives Gainey a slight edge over Burke so far, its the cammalerri signing. If he can get 35 goals again it would be a sweet deal for Bob. If Gustavsson turns into a #1 goalie than I give Burke the edge. All in all i think both teams will battle for the 8th seed.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 10:41:12
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Matt, two things. First off, Moen's and Gill's games are not about putting up points. Their game is about preventing other teams players from putting up points, and I thinkthey do that very well. I see Moen as part of one of the best checking lines in the league with Lapierre and Latendresse. I wish Gill WAS a little meaner, but oh well!
With regards to the Huet trade, I'm a little touchy on that one because you blame Gainey for letting those UFA's go, but then bemoan the fact that he traded Huet, a UFA. |
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 13:15:59
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Mr Roberts,
I see you've taken my general attack on leaf fans personally.
Why?
I never mentioned your name and your forum name does not specifiy tht you are a leaf fan.
I also see how "excited" one can get with a goalie after reading your comments.
Your paragraph below summarizes what I'm trying to say about how excited leaf fans get based on paper, points, and dreams.
You talk about the "thought" of key defence pairs and a goalie that may turn out to be something.
Yet - just like the key pickups Gainey made - nothing is proven yet.
So why are your summaries better than anyone else's?
Keep dreaming, keep putting your smiles on your faces, and keep hoping that everything turns out ok... just like you have for the past 40 years or so...
Also, keep a towel handy in case your excitment gets out of control.
The leafs meanwhile, also made some key signings that are worth getting excited about. The thought of Kaberle-Komisarek, Schenn-Beauchimen, White-Exelby patrolling our blueline just puts a smile on leaf fans faces. We are going to be a smarter and tougher team from the backend. Signing Gustavsson to a very reasonable contract could very well turn out to be the BEST signing any GM made all summer. This kid has the potential to come in and be the next Lundqvist.
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 05:26:06
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7752 - Can we even use the term "excited" in your world, without being labelled as some mouth-frothing idiot who plans parade routes? Seriously, we as older Leaf fans have been through a revolving door of mediocrity of late, through the oh-so-close years of 93 and 94 (good competetive teams), and through the sludge and muck of the Ballard years. It's not like it's been a long summer, or a long year, or even a decade . . . it's been a long HALF CENTURY at this point.
So, I am sure you can, in your discerning and compassionate view, allow space for a little optimism, even if it is over-exuberant at times.
Good luck with your bleu blanc et rouge towel . . . oh, wait, I forgot: Canadiens fans would never over-value their team, no no.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 05:47:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
I see Moen as part of one of the best checking lines in the league with Lapierre and Latendresse.
Hahaha...you actually think Latendresse is tough? He's just as bad as Plekanec and those ever so "high on life" brothers...Lapierre, give him some credit, but to consider them to be solid checkers? Wasn't Latendresse slated to be the next 100 point guy in Montreal? What happened there? Also, Moen will be the only checker on a checking line with Lapierre and Latendresse..just saying lol...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 05:56:01
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
7752 - Can we even use the term "excited" in your world, without being labelled as some mouth-frothing idiot who plans parade routes? Seriously, we as older Leaf fans have been through a revolving door of mediocrity of late, through the oh-so-close years of 93 and 94 (good competetive teams), and through the sludge and muck of the Ballard years. It's not like it's been a long summer, or a long year, or even a decade . . . it's been a long HALF CENTURY at this point.
So, I am sure you can, in your discerning and compassionate view, allow space for a little optimism, even if it is over-exuberant at times.
Good luck with your bleu blanc et rouge towel . . . oh, wait, I forgot: Canadiens fans would never over-value their team, no no.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo, you agree with the point of every summer, Montreal fans, media, management and players seem to walk and talk with the belief that they'll get the cup and that all other teams are there for fun?
Seriously, the Leafs and Habs have the same chance to make the playoffs. Both teams have holes, at least the Leafs and other teams that have weaknesses admit it, they don't rate up their 4th liner's as top liner's anywhere else. The Habs team is just as strong, and at the same time weak as the Leafs squad. Laugh all you want, but when you really look through the lineups, you'll see that there are outstanding negatives on the Habs roster. Biggest one is probably in net for the Habs. Over the past two years, Price has folded under pressure big time. Now, with the failure over the last two years, he'll have even more pressure on his back. This time, it won't take 1/2 the season for his knees to buckle up and the pressure comes crashing down. I will bet anyone that Price fails to win 30 games this year, solidifying him as the most overrated goalie in the NHL...
Defensively, weak. If you think Gill and Spacek are your saviors, have fun with that....
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Posted - 07/23/2009 : 06:43:15
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Well Rambo, I wouldn't go so far s to say I agree with everything you say . . . I disagree about Price, for instance. I think he's done very, very well considering his age and the unfortunate situation he was placed in prematurely. I think he is a pretty solid goalie, actually.
But yes, I do feel that Montreal fans always have this rosy view, every summer, that they can win the cup this year. And frankly, I think this kind of started when Roy took a pretty mediocre team of hard-working players and carried them on his back to the cup. I can sort of understand after a season like that, where no one could have predicted montreal would win it all, how every summer one might think "anything is possible".
What I am saying is, anything is possible I suppose - but the odds are real, real low that Montreal finishes top four in the conference, or advance past the second round. I only give them 50/50 odds to make the playoffs, and something like a 1 in 5 chance to advance past the first round. Of course, once we get a quarter of the season into it, I am sure the odds will be adjusted . . . may be hard to believe, but I'm actually not right all the time!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 07:43:55
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Well Rambo, I wouldn't go so far s to say I agree with everything you say . . . I disagree about Price, for instance. I think he's done very, very well considering his age and the unfortunate situation he was placed in prematurely. I think he is a pretty solid goalie, actually.
But yes, I do feel that Montreal fans always have this rosy view, every summer, that they can win the cup this year. And frankly, I think this kind of started when Roy took a pretty mediocre team of hard-working players and carried them on his back to the cup. I can sort of understand after a season like that, where no one could have predicted montreal would win it all, how every summer one might think "anything is possible".
What I am saying is, anything is possible I suppose - but the odds are real, real low that Montreal finishes top four in the conference, or advance past the second round. I only give them 50/50 odds to make the playoffs, and something like a 1 in 5 chance to advance past the first round. Of course, once we get a quarter of the season into it, I am sure the odds will be adjusted . . . may be hard to believe, but I'm actually not right all the time!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Anything is possible, yes, yes it is. For instance, for all we know, the Coyotes can win the cup too! haha...well, don't laugh too hard, because you never know. With that being said, the same 50/50 chance the Habs have of making the playoffs, is the same 50/50 chance the Leafs have. It all depends on how the FA's adjust, how the goalies do, health, coaching, and the list goes on...
Back to my main point, the Habs in just about every facet, should ease of the hype pedal and realize that there is nothing their team has that makes them better then the rest of the league...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 07:54:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
7752 - Can we even use the term "excited" in your world, without being labelled as some mouth-frothing idiot who plans parade routes? Seriously, we as older Leaf fans have been through a revolving door of mediocrity of late, through the oh-so-close years of 93 and 94 (good competetive teams), and through the sludge and muck of the Ballard years. It's not like it's been a long summer, or a long year, or even a decade . . . it's been a long HALF CENTURY at this point.
So, I am sure you can, in your discerning and compassionate view, allow space for a little optimism, even if it is over-exuberant at times.
Good luck with your bleu blanc et rouge towel . . . oh, wait, I forgot: Canadiens fans would never over-value their team, no no.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo, you agree with the point of every summer, Montreal fans, media, management and players seem to walk and talk with the belief that they'll get the cup and that all other teams are there for fun?
Seriously, the Leafs and Habs have the same chance to make the playoffs. Both teams have holes, at least the Leafs and other teams that have weaknesses admit it, they don't rate up their 4th liner's as top liner's anywhere else. The Habs team is just as strong, and at the same time weak as the Leafs squad. Laugh all you want, but when you really look through the lineups, you'll see that there are outstanding negatives on the Habs roster. Biggest one is probably in net for the Habs. Over the past two years, Price has folded under pressure big time. Now, with the failure over the last two years, he'll have even more pressure on his back. This time, it won't take 1/2 the season for his knees to buckle up and the pressure comes crashing down. I will bet anyone that Price fails to win 30 games this year, solidifying him as the most overrated goalie in the NHL...
Defensively, weak. If you think Gill and Spacek are your saviors, have fun with that....
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Woah woah woah now heres were i got to stand up for my boy! first off Hall Gill is a stud as long as your only counting on him to be your number 5 d man and play the PK and Max Lapierre is a stud pure and simple besides guys like J staal he is a top third line center in the NHL he showed his stuff last year when only two player on the whole habs team can say they played well for an entire season lapierre and markov,, now this isn't stupid habs fan ranting about how our teams the best i am and pretty sure i shown that i can admitt my teams faults and we do have a lot but lapierre can check he is gritty as s*** watch him play like really pay attention to him you'll see what i mean he is very very valuable!
Pasty |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 10:25:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
7752 - Can we even use the term "excited" in your world, without being labelled as some mouth-frothing idiot who plans parade routes? Seriously, we as older Leaf fans have been through a revolving door of mediocrity of late, through the oh-so-close years of 93 and 94 (good competetive teams), and through the sludge and muck of the Ballard years. It's not like it's been a long summer, or a long year, or even a decade . . . it's been a long HALF CENTURY at this point.
So, I am sure you can, in your discerning and compassionate view, allow space for a little optimism, even if it is over-exuberant at times.
Good luck with your bleu blanc et rouge towel . . . oh, wait, I forgot: Canadiens fans would never over-value their team, no no.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo, you agree with the point of every summer, Montreal fans, media, management and players seem to walk and talk with the belief that they'll get the cup and that all other teams are there for fun?
Seriously, the Leafs and Habs have the same chance to make the playoffs. Both teams have holes, at least the Leafs and other teams that have weaknesses admit it, they don't rate up their 4th liner's as top liner's anywhere else. The Habs team is just as strong, and at the same time weak as the Leafs squad. Laugh all you want, but when you really look through the lineups, you'll see that there are outstanding negatives on the Habs roster. Biggest one is probably in net for the Habs. Over the past two years, Price has folded under pressure big time. Now, with the failure over the last two years, he'll have even more pressure on his back. This time, it won't take 1/2 the season for his knees to buckle up and the pressure comes crashing down. I will bet anyone that Price fails to win 30 games this year, solidifying him as the most overrated goalie in the NHL...
Defensively, weak. If you think Gill and Spacek are your saviors, have fun with that....
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Woah woah woah now heres were i got to stand up for my boy! first off Hall Gill is a stud as long as your only counting on him to be your number 5 d man and play the PK and Max Lapierre is a stud pure and simple besides guys like J staal he is a top third line center in the NHL he showed his stuff last year when only two player on the whole habs team can say they played well for an entire season lapierre and markov,, now this isn't stupid habs fan ranting about how our teams the best i am and pretty sure i shown that i can admitt my teams faults and we do have a lot but lapierre can check he is gritty as s*** watch him play like really pay attention to him you'll see what i mean he is very very valuable!
Pasty
Don't get me wrong, I think Gill's a great player, just not a top 3 guy. Just don't look for him to be the missing piece to a cup lol Lapierre, like I said, give him credit, but don't slate him on a line with Latendresse and Moen make them the best checking line around...not you pasty. However, you'd have to admit Lapierre doesn't compare to the likes of Phalsson or Franzen as 3rd line centres.
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 13:58:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Seventy7Fifty2
Mr Roberts,
I see you've taken my general attack on leaf fans personally.
Why?
I never mentioned your name and your forum name does not specifiy tht you are a leaf fan.
I also see how "excited" one can get with a goalie after reading your comments.
Your paragraph below summarizes what I'm trying to say about how excited leaf fans get based on paper, points, and dreams.
You talk about the "thought" of key defence pairs and a goalie that may turn out to be something.
Yet - just like the key pickups Gainey made - nothing is proven yet.
So why are your summaries better than anyone else's?
Keep dreaming, keep putting your smiles on your faces, and keep hoping that everything turns out ok... just like you have for the past 40 years or so...
Also, keep a towel handy in case your excitment gets out of control.
The leafs meanwhile, also made some key signings that are worth getting excited about. The thought of Kaberle-Komisarek, Schenn-Beauchimen, White-Exelby patrolling our blueline just puts a smile on leaf fans faces. We are going to be a smarter and tougher team from the backend. Signing Gustavsson to a very reasonable contract could very well turn out to be the BEST signing any GM made all summer. This kid has the potential to come in and be the next Lundqvist.
You hab fans still think its 1979. The habs have had 3 great seasons in almost 30 years ok?! 86.93 and 08. You guys are living in the past as well, dont kid yourselves. You said leaf fans remind you of premature ejaculating boys.... you dont have to mention me by name, thats enough to warrant a response.
You guys rip on Gill when he was a leaf, now he is ok? laughable. Komisarek was your golden boy, who got voted into the all star game. now, he sucks.... yea right...
you know what else is laughable? 7 mil for gomez and 5 mil for gionta. HAH!
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 15:23:37
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Matt Roberts you have let 7752 get to you. I am not into personal attacks but i don't agree with 7752's comments. He is obviously feeling short changed by Gaineys moves and having no hope in his Habs for the upcoming season. So he has taken to attacking Leafs fans. He is feeling self conciouse and has no self esteem in order to make the type of malicious comments that he has.
Stay focused Mr. Roberts and don't get sucked in.
Unfortunately we will not know which team has bettered themselves til they get onto the ice and start playing. As I stated before, I think that Burke did a good job with what he has done in T.O.. Gainey has also done a good job but I am not sure it is better then Burke. Of course I am talking only about this offseasons aquisitions.
I am still trying to figure out what so called magic Burke worked in Beantown, he has been busy in T.O.! |
Edited by - Porkchop73 on 07/23/2009 15:24:51 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 16:40:12
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Again, in my attempts to be objective with no really ties to either team here's the deal.
If a guy walks up to me on the street right now and says I can bet $10k of his money on either the Leafs or Habs this season, I let it all right on the Habs without any real thought.
Firstly, everyone is talking about the 'holes' in Montreal's defense. Where?? I mean, Hamrlik (defensive defenseman) and Markov (Offensive Defenseman) are as good as they come in their respective positions. Spacek is a 3 defenseman on nearly every team in the league. Gill definately does his job. That's solid.
And more than anything else, the Habs have significantly more offense. Not just a little. A lot. Here's an example. People made comments about Gomez and his weak 58 points a season. Well, how many Leaf forwards have a season of 58 points?? One?? Maybe. How many Leaf forwards have a 40 goal season?? 45 Goal season???
Montreal has as good of a line up (if not better) at stoping the puck as the Leafs and are way way ahead on the scoring department.
I mean, all due respect, look at the Vegas odds. I'll dig a litter deep and find some more inforamtion, but a quick look at a betting site shows the Leafs at 100-1 to win the Cup and the Habs at 30-1.
The guys who make money of sports are willing to put 100-1 on the Leafs. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 17:16:22
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I agree with you Beans, but the question really is did Gainey do a better job a improving the Habs or did Burke do a better job on the Leafs.
I think most hockey fans will agree that the Habs are the more talented team (except the ones who can't take their blue tinted glasses).
I think Burke did more to improve the leafs overall. It is obvious that he is building longer term and Gainey looking for immediate improvement. I like the looks of the team Gainey has for this year but I am not sure it is as much of an improvement as the Leafs.
And Burke did all his so called magic in Beantown too! That in itself is way better then anything Gainey did! |
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 17:53:17
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wow... it never takes much to get leaf fans going...
at least you guys get to constantly see a replica of the cup in the HHOF - that's about as close as you'll ever get
mr. roberts does not need a towel anymore, i tihnk a pacifier will do instead.
i have an exercise for all you leaf fans to prove how stupid i really am:
why don't you all go to the Sundin Comedy forum and review your comments versus mine
I'll bet you'll learn a little more about how "educated" your comments were versus how "accurate" mine were regarding Sundin and the whole leaf nation...
eventually, around mid next season, we'll come back to this forum too and we'll all laugh together at our "educated" versus "accurate" comments |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 22:34:01
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Beans, i'm in the same position as you, more or less impartial. I brought up the Vegas odds thing in one of the threads (no replies since surprisingly, or not?) and they really do favor the Habs. I too would put the 10K on the Habs to finish higher!
However, Porkchop brings up a very valid point. While this thread has turned into an argument over which team is better, has more depth, etc, the thread is actually "Gainey vs Burke". Now, in defense of the Leaf fans, the original poster (7752) was more or less claiming that Gainey's outclassed Burke this offseason? He spent more time roasting Burke and in turn, the Leaf fans, than he did discussing really what was done. Oh, and of course he brought up the Komisarek thing.
As for the argument as to who actually did better? Well, we can all have opinions so here's mine:
Gainey was forced to make changes or he'd likely be overpaying for some of his UFA's to stay, case in point, Kovalev! He has done what looks to me like a decent job of offseason rebuilding for his team. I like what he's done on defense, however, i'd have liked to see him keep Komisarek. Who knows, maybe someone else will step up and take his role on? A guy i like in their system is PK Subban. Enjoyed watching him at the WJC's. Their forwards, well, yes small, but talented. I don't think Cammalleri's gonna repeat what he did last year, but i don't think he'll tank either. I really don't like the contract he picked up in Gomez but i do expect him to improve over his 58 pts and Gionta should help him do so. I also expect Plekanec to rebound from a poor season. All in all, the Habs forwards are a big step above those of the Leafs. In goal, i'm one who def hasn't given up on Price. I look at the start he had last year and pre-injury, he was in fine form. As he matures, i think he'll be able to handle the work load and become a top 5-7 goalie in the league.
In TO, Burke made some nice moves too and really, as most intelligent Leafs fans will admit, has begun an even larger re-building project than Gainey had in front of him. I like his pick ups but i would have tried to get another good young forward somehow, and maybe he still will for Kaberle? Their forwards won't scare anyone really and i don't entirely agree with the theory being thrown around about them having 4 solid lines rather than a true #1 thru 4 lines? Defensively, they look pretty good and i think Schenn is gonna take a big step this year. He may not be a scorer, but i think he's gonna be like Regehr in Calgary, a great shut down dman before too long. Komi should fit in well with a guy like Burke, i like that pick up. Defensively, TO looks solid, however, i'd be a little concerned that they're a bit too defensive, especially if they part with Kaberle. In goal, i'm a believer in Toskala with this revamped D. As for "Monster", i'm a wait and see kinda guy and won't believe the hype till in fact i do see it, and who knows, maybe i will see it? I can't blame Burke for signing him, but i also don't think he had to work all that hard seeing as there was a short list of teams that he was willing to sign with? Overall, i think Burke did okay and got a good start at fixing the mess that was TO.
As for the Gainey vs Burke thing? We really have to wait and see what happens but i think they both did good on paper. If Leafs fans wanna argue that "Burke did more to improve his team....", i will agree. However, i feel he had a lot more room for improvement with the squad he inherited! I'm not saying the Habs were an elite team, but i think with the off year Kovalev & Plekanec had coupled with Price, Tanguay and Lang all having significant injuries, the Habs underachieved slightly. BTW, is Lang a free agent? Did he retire? I really think the Habs missed him more than a lot of people realize. They were something like 11-18 after they lost Lang and barely hung on to the 8th playoff spot. Anyone surprised at their playoff performance (or lack thereof), should give their head a shake! That had sweep written all over it! |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2009 : 03:06:53
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I truly think Burkes pickups are great for the Team... Toskala will probably lose his number1 spot to the Monster... Burkes pick ups were great Defensive pick up, Toronto already has an overall strong offensive team, this year they'll have a strong offensive and defensive core, and as long as Toskala doesn't play more than half of the games, I believe the Leafs will have a good chance at making the Playoffs this season... Opening the season October 1st Montreal at Toronto.... GO LEAFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
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Guest9838
( )
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Posted - 07/24/2009 : 06:41:13
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Hanley, you've got to get off Toskala, you are way too fixated on Toskala. He may not be a true no. 1, but with a good team in front of him (not saying this year's version of the leafs will be great, but the defense should be better in theory) he should post respectable numbers, say a GAA below 2.80 and a sv % over .905. With the sharks he was posting great numbers with a good team in front of him.
If Gustavsson takes the no.1 spot great, but don't be surprised if Toskala has a bounce back season and doesn't relinquish the spot. Remember this is also a contract year for him. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2009 : 07:07:54
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Ho Ho Ho, where to begin. You sure can spew s*** 7752. Keeps things interesting around here during the off season at least
Lets see... first you said:
"at least you guys get to constantly see a replica of the cup in the HHOF - that's about as close as you'll ever get"
Obviously you have forgotten about the 13 cup championships, that the city did get to see outside the HOF, but thats ok. Ill let it slide.
THAN, you proceed to toot your own horn about a whole lot of just straight up Sundin bashing...
"why don't you all go to the Sundin Comedy forum and review your comments versus mine
I'll bet you'll learn a little more about how "educated" your comments were versus how "accurate" mine were regarding Sundin and the whole leaf nation..."
Wow, you managed to rip on a 39 year old who is well past his prime.... good for you. I mean, we all know how all leaf fans thought mats was going to get 90 points this year and lead the canucks to the cup.... or how we all thought he was the best player in world the entire time he was here. You think you understand us, but you really dont.
Porkchop - dont worry man, im just having some fun with a hab fan who sounds like a homeless person who used to be rich, telling stories to anyone who will listen about how great he used to be...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2009 : 09:25:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
quote:
Originally posted by Odin
I see Moen as part of one of the best checking lines in the league with Lapierre and Latendresse.
Hahaha...you actually think Latendresse is tough? He's just as bad as Plekanec and those ever so "high on life" brothers...Lapierre, give him some credit, but to consider them to be solid checkers? Wasn't Latendresse slated to be the next 100 point guy in Montreal? What happened there? Also, Moen will be the only checker on a checking line with Lapierre and Latendresse..just saying lol...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
What is with you guys twisting words? What I said was part of one of the best checking lines in the league. I didn't say anything about tough. Plain English. Try learning the language. But since we are on it, yes, he actually IS pretty tough. He WILL go into corners, he will 'greet' you there, and he DOES dig for the puck. All hallmarks of a good checker.
He is nowhere in the same mould of Plekanec. Night and day buddy. Not even close. And say what you want about the brothers, Sergei has a well documented temper, and I have seen Andrei walk through would be checkers on many occassions. I don't recall anybody talking about Latendresse and 100 points.
As far as your comment about Moen being the only checker on the checking line, I would take those three over any combo the Leaf can muster as a so-called checking line. That is honestly one of the stupidest comments I have read in a while. I guess I shouldn't expect anything different. |
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Gainey vs Burke 
