| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| framer87 |
Posted - 02/27/2007 : 14:00:54
Which team made the best trades(s) to solidify themselves as Stanley Cup contenders? |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| leigh |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 19:37:05
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
Not me, it's one game... against Philly. It was like people getting excited about Conroy racking up points against LA in his first game with the Flames.
You gotta let this go Babs, how long do we have to go until you are proven wrong buddy. He has 11 points in 15 games. That's pretty darn good. Flames are in the running for 1st in the NW...and are one point back of your Sharks with a game in hand. Conroy was a great addition albeit not at the deadline. |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 18:56:43
So are you agreeing with me or not? I never said that those other teams didn't, in fact San Jose has been like that lately because Nabokov is a tool and I'll be the first to admit it. But Pittsburgh certainly does too. |
| Guest4734 |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 18:34:27
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
Pittsburgh? Give me a break.
Laraque and Roberts are far from franchise-changing players. They will both be there to protect Crosby and friends. Roberts will add a few points but Laraque won't. Other than that how are they better contenders? They have no defense and an inconsistent goalie. High scoring will do them fine in the regular season but come playoff time they'll need the defense and they just don't have it. Roberts and Laraque did nothing to help that.
Sorry man, but inconsistent goltender might be trube, but the sharks have had inconsistent goaltenders, montreal too, the leafs, canucks(shaky start by luongo, playing amazing now), too many teams have had inconsistent goaltenders, but as too who has made the best moves, i really don't know |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 16:33:22
Ok guinman, here's my initial take to your response:
BS. The way you go on talking about the Pittsburgh D just goes to show that you can't offer any concrete evidence to support your case that they are a solid, reliable D. "They have great mobility, good puck movement...etc.", give me a break. If they didn't have mobility or puck control skills they wouldn't be in the NHL. In fact, on most teams half of them wouldn't anyways. I can think of a younger D group, the Sharks D, who are much more reliable and can indeed out-play the Penguins D any day. Although they do make the odd mistake of inexperience, Rivet has arrived and will help them with their patience. Pittsburgh doesn't have a Rivet or a Hannan, their leader is an offense-first D man (Gonchar). Like Souray, Ryan Whitney can produce on the PP but he is a huge liability in his own end. Point being that at the deadline, Pittsburgh needed a Rivet and they didn't get one. They were too worried about protecting Crosby.
Fleury is so incredibly inconsistent. His record has nothing to do with his consistency (or his lack thereof), it's just the result of it. He can easily let in 5 goals one game, have a shutout the next, then allow another 5 goals after that. While this is technically possible for any goalie, Fleury has perfected the art. Great, potential Cup-winning goalies are consistent for long stretches. Brodeur allows more than 4 goals maybe twice every 10 games (if that) and probably the same with Luongo. Their team can count on them 8 or 9 games out of 10 to give them a reasonable chance to win. To be safe, Pittsburgh would have to score 6 every game, just in case.
They just didn't get the job done at the deadline, simple as that. |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 16:20:40
Not me, it's one game... against Philly. It was like people getting excited about Conroy racking up points against LA in his first game with the Flames. |
| Guest2753 |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 13:14:56
well I bet todays game shut alot of people up (Including me) about Roberts. |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 04:00:54
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4560
Smolinski is over-rated by Vancouver fans. He is barely a top six forward, and on Ottawa he was their 3rd line centre. Smokes is a good 3rd line depth centre, he is not going to do much other than add another two-way player to an already decent shut-down Canuck team. Nonis should have addressed the lack of offense. Smolinski will not produce goals in that system.
I basically agree with you. Smolinksi is entirely for depth and isnt expected to score. My point to babs was that it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that he's a top 6 forward. Hell, he's not even a top 6 on the Canucks, but my point was that it's not as obvious as the implication.
Nonis couldnt get scoring help. He'd have to give up high draft picks or young talent, just for rental players. Not wise for 'most' teams. |
| Guest4560 |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 03:41:53
Smolinski is over-rated by Vancouver fans. He is barely a top six forward, and on Ottawa he was their 3rd line centre. Smokes is a good 3rd line depth centre, he is not going to do much other than add another two-way player to an already decent shut-down Canuck team. Nonis should have addressed the lack of offense. Smolinski will not produce goals in that system. |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 02:32:32
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0807
The nucks got a top 6 forward...
I'll pretend I didn't read that.
I don't want to over-inflate the Nux moves, but I do want to point out that Smolinski was Chicago's #1 center and 2nd on their team in scoring (not to mention a +10). Yes, this was Chicago, but it still at least doesnt warrant your implication. ;) |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 02:26:43
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4174
The only reason why the canucks are making the playoffs is this guy named Luongo....ring a bell????
1. He sure helps, but not the only reason
2. He's a part of the team... so it really doesnt matter if it's only him anyways.
dont forget Saborin should have had 2 pts in Buffalo (got 1), and he got the win in Anaheim too. |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 02:24:16
quote:
Originally posted by leigh
Yup, Calgary. They don't get enough credit. They have more depth than people think. I guess if you don't watch them much you wouldn't know that. Problem lately is that Kipper has been soft. If he regains his form then I think they are true contenders. They're back at the top of their div again (tied w/ Van). I'm liking their chances.
Homer. ;) |
| guinman |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 22:08:14
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
Pittsburgh? Give me a break.
Laraque and Roberts are far from franchise-changing players. They will both be there to protect Crosby and friends. Roberts will add a few points but Laraque won't. Other than that how are they better contenders? They have no defense and an inconsistent goalie. High scoring will do them fine in the regular season but come playoff time they'll need the defense and they just don't have it. Roberts and Laraque did nothing to help that.
The slagging of the Pittsburgh D is getting old and cliche. This was the EXACT same crap that observers claimed before 1991, Even after Samuelsson was acquired. I would respectfully submit that the pens blue line core is quite proficient although very young and prone to making mistakes, these guys have made huge strides in only 2 seasons. They actually are quite underated. I can think of a lot of older D-cores that are prone to mistakes too. with no youthfull upside. What's better, young and improving or older, not so great and no up-side? You should all be aware that Mark Eaton who is again injured was out of the line-up for over 2 months. Eaton does a lot for a team. He's a great on the PK and consistently is a top 5 shot blocker in the league. He can skate and make a good first pass. The mostly young/inexperienced D -core performed admirably in his absence though shaky at first. Eaton came back in the middle of the big winning streak not coincidentally that following couple of weeks Fleury posted 3 Shut outs. Gonchar is a little less consistent without his partner Eaton. Alan Nassredine although not young is a journeyman minor leaguer until this year. He's 2nd or 3rd on the team in +/- at about plus 10. He's very steady and has decent mobility. Kinda reminds me of a guy named Gordie Roberts. Overall the pens D has great mobility, good puck movement with two great pp weapons. More experience will only help them but I will still maintain that they are more proficient in there own zone than they get credit for.
I can think of quite a few D cores around the league who are young an prone to mistakes who aren't sitting in a play-off spot. This is where I question your take on Fleury's 'inconsistency'. Ya I guess if about 6 below par games in 50 or so is inconsistent than you've got a case. Otherwise I'd say you're not paying attention. Exactly what qualifies as consistant? I guess you could point to stats but I'd submit that Fuhr was inconsistent based on that logic. Brodeur is consistant. Luongo is consistent. A few other guys are close to them but are they 'consistent' enough for you'? Right now Fleury is one of the best goalies in the league. Look at the Carolina pens game on friday. The pens played a back to backer in Carolina and out played the canes. They limited them to about 26 shots and defended very well without Eaton. Ward had a great game and Thibault absolutely wreaked. Based on the workload Fluery could of easily had a S.O.. Sure Fleury is still very young and could faulter in the play-offs as could any young player. Or he could pull a Cam Ward. Is Turco consistent? Here's a great regular season goalie who posts the awesome stats every year. Then in the playoffs his somewhat flawed technique is only overshadowed by his mental lapses. Do you like Turco's chances? Calling Fleury as of now inconsistent is nothing more than a vague cliche. About 80% of NHL starting goalies could easily be labeled 'inconsistent'. It depends what standard you want to hold them too. I know what poor play looks like. To me inconsistent is playing poorly too often. There's no way Fleury fits in that category right now. I'd say Fleury's had a great year and I like his huge upside. He's just a kid and it's no coincidence that since bringing in a good goalie coach in Meloche that he's improving every day.
Honestly right know I can't think of many goalies I'd rather have than MAF.
As for Laraque and Roberts - they are what they are. I would wholeheartedly submit that playoff success will rest hugely on MAF's shoulders as it will for every other playoff contender. Arrogantly counting them out based on baseless if not vague assertions is foolhardy. I can only hope the penguins opponents feel the same as you. I guarantee you they don't. |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 21:22:49
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0807
The nucks got a top 6 forward...
I'll pretend I didn't read that. |
| Guest0807 |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 21:14:28
How can getting Roberts who hasn't done anything in a very long time and Laraque who hasn't done anything ever make the pens the best? The nucks got a top 6 forward and a depth d-man two things they needed. Combine that with the best goalie in the game, the Sedins and Naslund whose playing much better and you can't deny that they will be a threat come playoff time.
NUCKS ALL THE WAY |
| 1 Crosby fan |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 14:53:42
The Canucks |
| Mikhailova |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 13:24:41
quote:
Originally posted by ED11
The final will be Buffalo and San Jose. Buffalo will take it they are solid all around. Anyone can argue that all they want but it's the truth.
You're the wisest Leafs fan I've ever met! Lol |
| ED11 |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 13:11:45
The Islanders made the best trades but are still not in contention for a cup. To me this looks very simple. The final will be Buffalo and San Jose. Buffalo will take it they are solid all around. Anyone can argue that all they want but it's the truth. And I'm not saying that cause I like Buffalo cause I don't, I'm a Leaf fan, but they're done this year. Buffalo will take it. |
| jbraiter |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 10:23:47
all the guests get an account |
| Guest4174 |
Posted - 03/02/2007 : 20:25:07
The only reason why the canucks are making the playoffs is this guy named Luongo....ring a bell???? |
| Guest4964 |
Posted - 03/02/2007 : 17:24:33
nyi got a solid player but i dont think they want to keep him smyth will be back in the west after this year but i think sharks and pitsburg will be a tought team too beat so i think they both did well |
| Guest8704 |
Posted - 03/02/2007 : 14:18:51
I'd say Calgary given they did the most to address their needs, but it wasn't really at the deadline. if they can get out of their heads that they can't win on the road, they are easily twice the team they took to the finals a few years back.
San Jose did very well, and on the deadline they picked up the best to help them go all the way.
Vancouver did well also in addressing some needs, but in the end, they are the ones that needed Guerin to be a true cup contender.
The best team at and before the deadline was Philly, but obviously the question is cup contenders, so they are eliminated.
Toronto needed a tough scoring power forward, a reliable dman and a goaltender who can be consistent. If Perrault can somehow become Guerin, Rivet and anyone but Raycroft they won hands down heh. Who knows, maybe Perrault can bring Tucker back and magically transform him into Bertuzzi ala Vancouver years, teach McCabe how to play in his own end (or at least make Gill twice as fast) and teach Raycroft not to go down on every shot quicker than a 20 dollar hooker on a Saturday night. Maybe I can walk on water too!
Pittsburgh addressed some glaring needs, but the team is way too young to expect miracles this quickly. Besides, their defense might make Toronto's look competent.
Detroit is Detroit. I am not convinced that their young depth is enough to keep them going through the playoffs, just like it hasn't that last few seasons.
In the end, I suppose the defacto win goes to San Jose or Calgary in my mind. We'll see come playoff time I guess. |
| wyntyre |
Posted - 03/01/2007 : 19:30:31
I agree with Leigh....Sutter picked up what he thought they needed before the deadline. Granted Conroy going to any other team wouldn't been a big deal...but in Calgary...he will help the effort. Stuart and Primeau add the size they were lacking and the team has depth all the way down to the AHL where they could bring up guys if needed....including goaltending.
Can't go...The Roads Are Dirty |
| Mikhailova |
Posted - 03/01/2007 : 12:27:12
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0081
Pittsburgh-to young
Nashville-not experienced
San Jose-destined (maybe)
Isalnders- no chance
Anaheim- soft in secondary scoring
Detroit- Ultimate Team
New Jersey- great defense
Vancouver could not even manage a playoff spot
Carolina- Same
Calgary-same
Atlanta- cud do damage
minnesota- doesnt stand a chance
Maple leafs suck
Detroit kicks ass
pittsburgh awesome
Nashville start packing for golf
Buffalo-the big winner |
| leigh |
Posted - 03/01/2007 : 11:50:28
San Jose definitely improved. Added more depth to an already deep team. Goaltending has been sketchy of late.
Detroit. Wow! Same as San Jose, more depth now. If Bert is healthy (mentally too) then they are the s***.
Yup, Calgary. They don't get enough credit. They have more depth than people think. I guess if you don't watch them much you wouldn't know that. Problem lately is that Kipper has been soft. If he regains his form then I think they are true contenders. They're back at the top of their div again (tied w/ Van). I'm liking their chances.
Of course Nashville and Anaheim are always in the mix. |
| oil fan97 |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 20:48:03
Sharks
|
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 17:51:41
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2830
quote:
Originally posted by Novie
I was torn on how to comment until I saw your post, Babs...now here's what I can say:
Pittsburgh did the best job filling the holes they needed filled. San Jose needed some help on D, they got Rivet. They don't need scoring help, but got some anyway. Could have turned Guerin right back into the trade market for a Souray/Bouwmeester/Volchenkov type player (yes, I realize all three of them are different types of players, but the Sharks could use any of 'em)
Philly got some much-needed help in net, and a ton of draft picks...let's not forget them!
Perfectly said Novie. Rivet is not a bad pickup...but by no means great for what they gave up (1st rounder). Guerin is not even close to what that team needed. He needed to be turned around and sent off elsewhere. The Sharks don't need help up front. I would say that any team that can have a player like Steve Bernier playing in the minors much of the season probably has enough offense to be safe come playoff time. The only thing Guerin brings is a bit of leadership being a veteran. But I would argue that all Guerin coming to town could do is suggest to Thornton that his leadership is not enough. Guerin does not bring much to the team at even strength, so sure, a help on the powerplay, but who needs help when your PP leads the league.
I say good on Pittsburgh for filling any gaps, as well, good on Detroit for picking up Bertuzzi for what is only conditional picks. That means, if he plays...he'll be well worth the trade, and if he doesn't...then they gave very little up at all.
You agree with Novie that SJ needs a Souray-type player but you say that they didn't need to improve their PP? A little contradictory...
San Jose, contrary to what most believe, did fill most (not all, I won't lie) of their holes. Rivet brings the veteran leadership from the back end, which needs all the help it can get when Nabokov is in net. He will help the young defensemen mature and while it would have been nice to have a Cup-winning D, Rivet is the next best thing. They get the Cup experience in Guerin. And I can't stress enough, San Jose got that 1st-rounder to use in a trade and all they had to do was basically pick up Malakhov's salary. It was a genius deal by Wilson and a ridiculously stupid one by NJ.
San Jose does need Guerin, a lot. Sure they do still have the top PP in the league (tied for 1st), but that doesn't mean much. Their PP was well over 26% a couple months ago and it is now at exactly 23%. San Jose's goal production compared to other months has dropped a full goal per-game. While they did need some help on D, which they did get in Rivet, they also needed to boost that scoring again. "The best defense is a good offense", cliche but true. San Jose didn't need Souray who is only good on the PP (seriously lacks defensive skills), and SJ would have had to give up half their team to get either Bouwmeester or Volchenkov. I seriously think that other than getting rid of Nabokov for another solid D-man, SJ did a really good job getting what they needed.
Pittsburgh, on the other hand, did not. They needed defensemen, it was as simple as that, but they didn't get anything. They did need an enforcer, which was good for them to get Laraque. But he won't help them win a Cup, he'll just look out for Crosby when he needs to. Roberts is a decent grinder, but he's just not a turn-your-team-around type of player. |
| Guest0081 |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 17:01:26
Like the guy with the huge reply before said
Pittsburgh-to young
Nashville-not experienced
San Jose-destined (maybe)
Isalnders- no chance
Anaheim- soft in secondary scoring
Detroit- Ultimate Team
New Jersey- great defense
Vancouver could not even manage a playoff spot
Carolina- Same
Calgary-same
Atlanta- cud do damage
minnesota- doesnt stand a chance
Maple leafs suck
Detroit kicks ass
pittsburgh awesome
Nashville start packing for golf |
| Guest0081 |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 16:53:45
quote:
Originally posted by framer87
Which team made the best trades(s) to solidify themselves as Stanley Cup contenders?
you wouldnt kno hockey if it bit u on the rear,,, obviously the red wings got the best deals,,,, Big Bert (bertuzzi) and kyle calder who scored his first shift and recorded an assist after
Red Wings to the endwoooo! |
| Guest4306 |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 15:58:00
I'd have to go with the Islanders.. although the Pens got a lot better also.. Guerin will be a nice fit in San jose but it won't be enough to take this team deep in the playoffs.. |
| ultimatetitman |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 14:48:48
Tough to say. It would certainly seem that San Jose improved the most, but how often has a trade deadline pick up taken a team to the Cup? I'd suggest it happens a lot less than you think. Carolina would have won the Cup last year without Weight and Co. almost assuredly.
Did Ray Bourque win the Cup for Colorado? Hardly. They would have won that if they had stood pat at the deadline day.
Pittsburgh filled some holes very well, but I feel they are a bit too young and inexperienced to go far in the playoffs. A year or two from now, different story, but I'll be surprised if they make it past the first round, and shocked if they get through the second.
Vancouver got the exact help they need, but come on... I am as die hard as they come, and I know that Luongo could almost win the Cup himself, but you can't win it all if you can't score. Sure, "defence wins championships" but only when the offence pots a few.
I've long loathed the Islanders and sincerely doubt (and hope) that they are the first team out of the playoffs. I'd be thrilled if they missed the playoffs entiredly. I'm a big Ryan Smith fan, but he doesn't make up for the Yashin fiasco.
Atlanta looks like they have done what they need to do to finally make the playoffs. As the only current NHL never to have done so, it's about time... but they'll be out about as soon as they make it.
If Nashville had made one more pick up to solidify a team that may be ultra-prone to the injury bug in the next few weeks, I'd say they are the winners. But I suspect a few knees and ankles will be their undoing.
So I guess to answer your poll question, I'd have to say San Jose. But their destiny lies not in the deadline pick ups, but in their leader, Joe Thornton. If he disappears in the playoffs again, then they are going nowhere. |
| Mikhailova |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 12:30:15
quote:
Originally posted by vintage
i owuldnt say that the detroit redwings will win this year but bertuzzi fittin' in thats a forsure and he will have great chemistry with lang datsyuk and the other great ones
Are they all going to go have a great time studying together? hahahaha |
| vintage |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 12:25:01
i owuldnt say that the detroit redwings will win this year but bertuzzi fittin' in thats a forsure and he will have great chemistry with lang datsyuk and the other great ones |
| Guest2830 |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 11:32:54
quote:
Originally posted by Novie
I was torn on how to comment until I saw your post, Babs...now here's what I can say:
Pittsburgh did the best job filling the holes they needed filled. San Jose needed some help on D, they got Rivet. They don't need scoring help, but got some anyway. Could have turned Guerin right back into the trade market for a Souray/Bouwmeester/Volchenkov type player (yes, I realize all three of them are different types of players, but the Sharks could use any of 'em)
Philly got some much-needed help in net, and a ton of draft picks...let's not forget them!
Perfectly said Novie. Rivet is not a bad pickup...but by no means great for what they gave up (1st rounder). Guerin is not even close to what that team needed. He needed to be turned around and sent off elsewhere. The Sharks don't need help up front. I would say that any team that can have a player like Steve Bernier playing in the minors much of the season probably has enough offense to be safe come playoff time. The only thing Guerin brings is a bit of leadership being a veteran. But I would argue that all Guerin coming to town could do is suggest to Thornton that his leadership is not enough. Guerin does not bring much to the team at even strength, so sure, a help on the powerplay, but who needs help when your PP leads the league.
I say good on Pittsburgh for filling any gaps, as well, good on Detroit for picking up Bertuzzi for what is only conditional picks. That means, if he plays...he'll be well worth the trade, and if he doesn't...then they gave very little up at all. |
| Saku Steen |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 11:26:04
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
Great poll frames.
It has to be the Sharks. What they already had + Guerin and Rivet = Cup.
The Sharks for sure, but no cup for you! |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 08:57:04
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0905
I don't care what you say, the Avs still rule!
The Avs seriously suck, terrible goaltending+sakic does NOT equal the playoffs
CANUCKS RULE!! |
| Guest0905 |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 08:11:44
I don't care what you say, the Avs still rule! |
| Novie |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 05:52:56
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
Pittsburgh? Give me a break.
Laraque and Roberts are far from franchise-changing players. They will both be there to protect Crosby and friends. Roberts will add a few points but Laraque won't. Other than that how are they better contenders? They have no defense and an inconsistent goalie. High scoring will do them fine in the regular season but come playoff time they'll need the defense and they just don't have it. Roberts and Laraque did nothing to help that.
I was torn on how to comment until I saw your post, Babs...now here's what I can say:
Pittsburgh did the best job filling the holes they needed filled. San Jose needed some help on D, they got Rivet. They don't need scoring help, but got some anyway. Could have turned Guerin right back into the trade market for a Souray/Bouwmeester/Volchenkov type player (yes, I realize all three of them are different types of players, but the Sharks could use any of 'em)
Philly got some much-needed help in net, and a ton of draft picks...let's not forget them!
Go Sens
Crosby is God
Tucker is a douche |
| Novie |
Posted - 02/28/2007 : 05:49:31
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5270
i think leafs they got perrault
Yeah, picking up a one-dimensional face-off winner who hasn't been winning draws lately....good call TO.
Go Sens
Crosby is God
Tucker is a douche |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 02/27/2007 : 22:59:34
You no Laraque only has 7 less points then roberts? and Framer, time will tell on what trades are better its to early to tell
CANUCKS RULE!! |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 02/27/2007 : 19:52:22
Pittsburgh? Give me a break.
Laraque and Roberts are far from franchise-changing players. They will both be there to protect Crosby and friends. Roberts will add a few points but Laraque won't. Other than that how are they better contenders? They have no defense and an inconsistent goalie. High scoring will do them fine in the regular season but come playoff time they'll need the defense and they just don't have it. Roberts and Laraque did nothing to help that. |
