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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
 Posted - 08/22/2012 : 10:41:32
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It has been reported by TSN.ca that Taylor Hall as signed a 7 yr extension with the Edmonton Oilers for $42 million. The deal will have a $6 million cap hit. Hall is entering the last year of his entry level deal and would have been eligible for restricted free agency in the summer of 2013 had he not signed.
Hall has recorded 49 goals and 46 assists in 126 games over 2 injury reduced seasons since being picked #1 overall in the 2010 NHL Entry Draft.
What are your thoughts on this deal??
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Guest7752
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Posted - 08/22/2012 : 10:47:09
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Excellent deal, if he lives up to his potential and does not play half-seasons due to injuries.
It is a deal based on his potential.
This makes it a gamble, but a good gamble.
He'll be the Oilers captain soon, so its not a bad gamble.
I'm thinking it is good money for a captain who will give 200% on every shift.
I don't think he got this kind of money for points production alone.
So, yes... good win-win deal for Oliers and Hall moving forward. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 10:49:18
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Firstly, I am an Oiler Fan and some will likely find bias in my opinion, however this deal is exactly what I expected to see. Here are a few points:
1 - The Oilers are trying to build a future and that can only happen by locking up the core of the team for the long term. The Oilers now have Taylor Hall through his 27th birthday.
2 - $6 million seems to be the going rate for a potential 30+ goal scorer. Before the boobirds get going, I know that Hall has not scored 30 yet. However, both his seasons were cut short by injury. Had they not been, we would likely be taking about a player with close to 30 his first season and over 35 his 2nd seasons.
3 - I think Hall is getting better and better each year. Not only that, if you watch this kid play any length of time you will notice how much he hates losing and how much he wants to win. You can't teach that. Combine that motivation with the skill level and speed he shows, it's a deadly combination.
4 - There is a risk in this deal. Hall has shown to play the style of game that leads to injuries. Having said that, you can teach a player to be smarter. Jarome Iginla played a very similar style to Hall in the early part of his career too.
5 - This deal is only solid if the team also locks up Eberle for a similar term and similar money as well as Hopkins next season.
I like the deal and it is exactly what I expected to see, especially when you consider the deal that Skinner got. The baseline has been set.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 11:06:45
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I think the deal is reasonable - the Oilers could have tried to pull a Parise/Carter/Richards and go for the uber-long deal, but they chose to be sane about it. 7 years is a good length.
The only risks are:
- this deal has not been earned, rather it prices in his potential, which seems to be a common trend right now with young players so no fault to EDM for doing the same. While I think Hall will be a consistent producer going forward, there is always a chance that things will go downhill - 2 years of production is not enough time to know for sure what kind of player he'll be in 5 years time. If he does go downhill, then this deal will obviously suck. The one possible reason I see his production going down is the deal itself - its not unheard of to have an off season, or flatten performance, after signing a big deal like this, there is pressure to live up to it and he'll have to live up to it.
- as Beans said, injury risk. Hall has played 2 seasons in the NHL so far, and both have been injury shortened seasons. He's not injury prone per say, but does play with a style that invites injury potential. If he keeps playing this way, its only a matter of time before a concussion comes along
But overall, I think this is a good signing for EDM, and Hall. From what I read, people are expecting Eberle to get a higher amount than Hall, so it'll be interesting to see what he gets now. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 11:31:54
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Hall is a solid young player and this is a good salary for him. Edmonton needs to keep in mind that they also have three other young studs to sign in the upcoming seasons. Their agents will all base their salaries on the one Hall is getting right now. So this signing was uber important.
I thought the guess brought an interresting point by saying Hall is the next captain. I thought Eberle would be, what are your thoughts? |
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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 11:48:56
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Smart move and a good deal by both sides. Hall is a talented player and will be among the teams and leagues top scorers for years to come.
Still young and a lot to learn, and has been prone to injury's early in his career. But if he hits the gym hard and keeps up with his training, then he should be able to get past that (the injury's). His maturity as a player will grow just like every other young star in the league.
Next up is Eberle. Get that one done as soon as you can. He is the future captain of this team, and my guess is that someday down the road he'll be known as the best all around player in the league. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 12:51:31
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The Oilers are talking to Eberle and have been for the recent past. Although things are far from hostile, the reports were than the Oilers were very close to signing Hall but still have work to do with Eberle.
I think that Eberle is a better 'all around' player than Hall. Hall is more dynamic with his speed and has more of a sniper mentality. Eberle is just smooth everywhere. No holes in the games and the one knock on him is he is on the smaller side of small. It hasn't hurt him yet but none the less, size is an issue.
I can see Eberle getting a bit more than Hall or perhaps the exact same thing. I think maybe $45 mil over 7 for Eberle.
I'm just happy the Oilers can lock up at least Hall and Eberle before the new CBA. If the owners get their wish of 5 yr max deals then it will be even harder for teams to keep their young players locked up.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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@valanche
Rookie
Canada
240 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 13:26:07
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Seems a bit of an overpayment to me at this point in his career 5 million per season would have been more appropriate over this length of term. That being said Edmonton has had a tough time signing star caliber players in recent years and hall is a much better option than say heatley, vanek, or Dustin penner. Injuries would be the main concern here as hall is über competitive and physical for a smaller player. Overall good signing for Edmonton locking up a key franchise player. One has to think Eberle and RNH will get at least this much on average for their new contracts.
66 is > than 99 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 22:25:47
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| As someone said, it's kinda paying on potential, but i still think it's a great signing for the Oilers. They prob tried to get him at a little lower rate, yet he was prob hoping for a little more. Settle early before anything gets ugly and both sides look good. Moving forward, the Oilers can use this salary much like the Canucks did with the Sedins, and try to sign their other stars such as Eberle and the Nuge to similar deals. These two guys may in fact get more, but i doubt you'd see them get a ton more. This contract could really help the Oil in negotiating the other ones! I guess the Eberle dealings right now will tell a big part of the story! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2012 : 05:12:53
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Hall is a risk. It's a going rate payment, so one cannot truly state that it is an overpayment I guess . . . IF going on his youth, his potential and extrapolating each of his two years statistically over an 82 game season.
But the reality is, Hall has yet to play even one season without a major injury. 65 games played the first year, 61 the next. So to me, it's an overpayment - but a necessary one, for all the reasons the other posters here have mentioned. You want to signal to the others that Edmonton will keep the core; he's a future team leader in the dressing room; and obviously he has great potential.
From my perspective, I see it as a necessary evil . . . and although I predict that Hall will eventually get bogged down in injuries and have a shorter career, I think it's a great first step to keep RNH and Eberle on board, and they are both gonna be absolute superstars IMHO.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2012 : 10:30:17
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Not really happy about the length being 7 years, but the pay is equal to the skills he possesses. This guy is almost a point a game player with 30 goals a year in sight. He give 100% effort and played thru a shoulder injury which predated his NHL career. The doctors in Edmonton are convinced his long term shoulder injury is fixed. He was tied for 5th in the league for powerplay goals last year in only 61 games. If he is truly fixed, I expect him to become the most dynamic offensive player for the Oilers. If he was playing for my team and signed this contract, I would have cracked a beer in celebration. quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Hall is a risk. It's a going rate payment, so one cannot truly state that it is an overpayment I guess . . . IF going on his youth, his potential and extrapolating each of his two years statistically over an 82 game season.
But the reality is, Hall has yet to play even one season without a major injury. 65 games played the first year, 61 the next. So to me, it's an overpayment - but a necessary one, for all the reasons the other posters here have mentioned. You want to signal to the others that Edmonton will keep the core; he's a future team leader in the dressing room; and obviously he has great potential.
From my perspective, I see it as a necessary evil . . . and although I predict that Hall will eventually get bogged down in injuries and have a shorter career, I think it's a great first step to keep RNH and Eberle on board, and they are both gonna be absolute superstars IMHO.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2012 : 10:53:57
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Hall is a risk. It's a going rate payment, so one cannot truly state that it is an overpayment I guess . . . IF going on his youth, his potential and extrapolating each of his two years statistically over an 82 game season.
But the reality is, Hall has yet to play even one season without a major injury. 65 games played the first year, 61 the next. So to me, it's an overpayment - but a necessary one, for all the reasons the other posters here have mentioned. You want to signal to the others that Edmonton will keep the core; he's a future team leader in the dressing room; and obviously he has great potential.
From my perspective, I see it as a necessary evil . . . and although I predict that Hall will eventually get bogged down in injuries and have a shorter career, I think it's a great first step to keep RNH and Eberle on board, and they are both gonna be absolute superstars IMHO.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Hall isnt that injury prone, dipetro is injury prone. hall's been injured twice, one was a freak injury the other was reinjuring a bad shoulder which is now fixed.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2012 : 14:31:14
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Sorry Sashis, those are Oiler colored glasses viewing Hall as not an injury risk. 2 season, 2 injuries that ended the season, one significant shoulder surgery, and throw a concussion in there for good measure.
I am on the bandwagon that says his injury problems are behind him and this surgery was the last issue he will have for the forseeable future. However, until he plays at least one season (and perhaps 2 season) of more than 75 games, he will be labelled as an injury risk.
Facts are facts. Just because you or I can justify it in our own minds it does not change the reality of the situation.
Considering the Slozo is not a Oiler fan, I take his opinion as being very educated and unbiased. He raises some excellent points of concern and recognizes the needs of the team to sign Hall not only for his skill but to set the standard for the other young Oiler players.
He nailed it.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
Edited by - Beans15 on 08/23/2012 14:40:57 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2012 : 04:39:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Sorry Sashis, those are Oiler colored glasses viewing Hall as not an injury risk. 2 season, 2 injuries that ended the season, one significant shoulder surgery, and throw a concussion in there for good measure.
I am on the bandwagon that says his injury problems are behind him and this surgery was the last issue he will have for the forseeable future. However, until he plays at least one season (and perhaps 2 season) of more than 75 games, he will be labelled as an injury risk.
Facts are facts. Just because you or I can justify it in our own minds it does not change the reality of the situation.
Considering the Slozo is not a Oiler fan, I take his opinion as being very educated and unbiased. He raises some excellent points of concern and recognizes the needs of the team to sign Hall not only for his skill but to set the standard for the other young Oiler players.
He nailed it.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
Thank-you for those fine compliments, much appreciated.
About the injury risk . . . you said it well, yourself, Beans. If it truly was the skate on the face thing that had put Hall out for the rest of the season, and if it truly had been another freak injury the year before, then yes - I could call it just bad luck. But the one freak injury was the facial laceration, that's it - the other two were significant injuries to the shoulder, and in his rookie campaign a high ankle sprain. For a hockey player, those are areas of concern.
Is it a concussion, or knee injury? No, and that's good . . . it doesn't put him into any kind of super high risk category. But certainly, he has shown a propensity to go into dirty areas too hard and too recklessly, considering his size.
Like Beans said . . . he has a good chance to put the injury troubles behind him, but I also wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if he missed a significant amount of time this year once again.
As a hockey poolie, I absolutely must learn from history, and expect that 9 times out of ten, history will repeat itself.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2012 : 07:02:59
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I agreed with the history repeating itself point but as a Poole, Hall has wicked upside. I'd put him down for 60 pts this year and the potential for 70 plus if those injury issues are behind him.
Good mid round pick up for sure.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2012 : 20:33:24
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As far as pools go, Beans, if you draft him, i predict you overpay (take him too early). Let's face it, you're in pools with Oilers fans (i assume?) and someone will always pick him earlier than they should. Make sure it isn't you! As a mid round pick, i agree, a great upside, but i'd venture to guess that a ten team draft taking ten players each will see him go in round 4 in 85% of hockey pools in the Edmonton area!  |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2012 : 06:37:16
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You might be right about pools in the Edmonton area, but please don't assume that all poodles from Edmonton are team loving meatballs. Hall will likely go a little earlier in my draft than in your draft, however the 4th round is not that far off.
There were 56 players in the NHL that has 60 or more points last year. If you peg Hall as a 60 pts guy, then the 5th or 6th round is about right.
If you peg Hall for 70 pts, that would likely put him in the 2nd round.
If you peg him somewhere between the two, doesn't that make him a 4th round pick? Let's not forget that if healthy last season he was on pace for 70 pts. If his shoulder is repaired and he is healthy then that point total is not a stretch.
I don't think too many people would complain about getting Hall in the 4th round.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2012 : 22:04:53
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| No, you may be right, he was in fact on pace for a pretty nice year and IF healthy this season, Eberle and Nuge will likely continue to improve as well which can only help him. If 4th round is where he's pegged (or even 3rd), i'd still be that 85% of pools in Edm will have at least one meatball taking him earlier than that!!! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 04:53:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
You might be right about pools in the Edmonton area, but please don't assume that all poodles from Edmonton are team loving meatballs. Hall will likely go a little earlier in my draft than in your draft, however the 4th round is not that far off.
There were 56 players in the NHL that has 60 or more points last year. If you peg Hall as a 60 pts guy, then the 5th or 6th round is about right.
If you peg Hall for 70 pts, that would likely put him in the 2nd round.
If you peg him somewhere between the two, doesn't that make him a 4th round pick? Let's not forget that if healthy last season he was on pace for 70 pts. If his shoulder is repaired and he is healthy then that point total is not a stretch.
I don't think too many people would complain about getting Hall in the 4th round.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
You'd be surprised at how many meatballs would draft Hall only on potential and take him 2nd, third round, Beans.
But we certainly don't have any poodles in our draft . . . I think the other poolies would have a bone to pick with them being included
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4772
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Posted - 08/27/2012 : 10:29:30
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
You might be right about pools in the Edmonton area, but please don't assume that all poodles from Edmonton are team loving meatballs. Hall will likely go a little earlier in my draft than in your draft, however the 4th round is not that far off.
There were 56 players in the NHL that has 60 or more points last year. If you peg Hall as a 60 pts guy, then the 5th or 6th round is about right.
If you peg Hall for 70 pts, that would likely put him in the 2nd round.
If you peg him somewhere between the two, doesn't that make him a 4th round pick? Let's not forget that if healthy last season he was on pace for 70 pts. If his shoulder is repaired and he is healthy then that point total is not a stretch.
I don't think too many people would complain about getting Hall in the 4th round.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
You'd be surprised at how many meatballs would draft Hall only on potential and take him 2nd, third round, Beans.
But we certainly don't have any poodles in our draft . . . I think the other poolies would have a bone to pick with them being included
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Hate to call a poolie a meatball for drafting a guy with this type a potential early. How would you draft Crosby, the Sedin Twins or Ovechkin? Based on past performances and record of injuries not all of them should be in your first round either, yet all will be gone by the second round of most pool drafts with 15 plus teams.
Would take him 4th round or sooner. This is a guy with 6o+ games the last few seasons with almost a point a game pace, top 5 in power play goals on a developing team, with the upside on offensive potential Edmonton has. I am pegging him for an improvement in overall numbers, including points per game regardless of whether or not he is a risk for reinjury. How many potential 30 goal scorers or point a game players will there be in the top 60 players to be drafted. If your pool favors PP points like mine does, he is a nobrainer for top 60 or 4th round and sooner. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 11:14:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4772
Hate to call a poolie a meatball for drafting a guy with this type a potential early. How would you draft Crosby, the Sedin Twins or Ovechkin? Based on past performances and record of injuries not all of them should be in your first round either, yet all will be gone by the second round of most pool drafts with 15 plus teams.
Would take him 4th round or sooner. This is a guy with 6o+ games the last few seasons with almost a point a game pace, top 5 in power play goals on a developing team, with the upside on offensive potential Edmonton has. I am pegging him for an improvement in overall numbers, including points per game regardless of whether or not he is a risk for reinjury. How many potential 30 goal scorers or point a game players will there be in the top 60 players to be drafted. If your pool favors PP points like mine does, he is a nobrainer for top 60 or 4th round and sooner.
You may be right with Crosby, but I think you're offside with the Sedin's and OV. Both Sedin's will be gone in the first round of any points-based pool with 15 participants. Past performance is everything, they have been 2 of the most durable wingers since the lockout (Daniel has missed 29 games in 7 years, Henrik has missed zero and is the reigning NHL ironman I think), and are pretty much a lock for PPG++ in any season. I would be more than happy to join any single season pool where I had a shot at getting both Sedin's in the top-2 rounds. OV might slip out, but not for injury issues. Certainly Crosby is a risk, although less so - based on potential alone I think he'll go top-5 in any pool.
In regards to Hall, I don't think that "injury prone" is completely accurate to describe him. He has had injuries, but they've been one-off injuries that have healed at this point, and have not been recurring injuries or severe (ie, knee, concussion) injuries that can come back and nag. If his shoulder is truly healthy, he's probably a lock for 65-70 points, and possibly more, this year. While I don't think thats first round material, I would be shocked if he was not taken in the first 4 rounds of that same 15 player pool. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2012 : 13:08:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4772
Hate to call a poolie a meatball for drafting a guy with this type a potential early. How would you draft Crosby, the Sedin Twins or Ovechkin? Based on past performances and record of injuries not all of them should be in your first round either, yet all will be gone by the second round of most pool drafts with 15 plus teams.
Personally, i don't see Crosby, OV or either twin being around past pick #15 in any pool. OV is the only one i could possibly see and even that's a stretch. The big difference is, OV's done "it" before. He's been over 100 pts, he's won Richard trophies, been well over a pt/game, etc, etc.
Would take him 4th round or sooner. This is a guy with 6o+ games the last few seasons with almost a point a game pace, top 5 in power play goals on a developing team, with the upside on offensive potential Edmonton has. I am pegging him for an improvement in overall numbers, including points per game regardless of whether or not he is a risk for reinjury. How many potential 30 goal scorers or point a game players will there be in the top 60 players to be drafted. If your pool favors PP points like mine does, he is a nobrainer for top 60 or 4th round and sooner.
[/quote]
Well, i did specifically say he'd likely be 4th round of a 10 team draft picking 10 players each. Even that, i admitted, may be a round late? So, you saying you'd take him in the 4th round of a 15 teams league that gives extra pts to PP goals is obvious, though i don't think he'll be there at round 4 in your draft. |
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Guest4778
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Posted - 08/28/2012 : 17:52:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4772
Hate to call a poolie a meatball for drafting a guy with this type a potential early. How would you draft Crosby, the Sedin Twins or Ovechkin? Based on past performances and record of injuries not all of them should be in your first round either, yet all will be gone by the second round of most pool drafts with 15 plus teams.
Personally, i don't see Crosby, OV or either twin being around past pick #15 in any pool. OV is the only one i could possibly see and even that's a stretch. The big difference is, OV's done "it" before. He's been over 100 pts, he's won Richard trophies, been well over a pt/game, etc, etc.
Would take him 4th round or sooner. This is a guy with 6o+ games the last few seasons with almost a point a game pace, top 5 in power play goals on a developing team, with the upside on offensive potential Edmonton has. I am pegging him for an improvement in overall numbers, including points per game regardless of whether or not he is a risk for reinjury. How many potential 30 goal scorers or point a game players will there be in the top 60 players to be drafted. If your pool favors PP points like mine does, he is a nobrainer for top 60 or 4th round and sooner.
Well, i did specifically say he'd likely be 4th round of a 10 team draft picking 10 players each. Even that, i admitted, may be a round late? So, you saying you'd take him in the 4th round of a 15 teams league that gives extra pts to PP goals is obvious, though i don't think he'll be there at round 4 in your draft.
[/quote]I guess what i was responding to was calling a guy who would drafted him in the 3rd round or early in the 4th round a meatball wasn't an accurate statement. I think Taylor Hall has top 30+ potential if he can put his injuries in the past and play 75-80 games in a year. He is definately is top 50-60 player and I would draft him as such. |
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Taylor Hall Signs $42 million/7 yr Extension 
