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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1915 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2012 :  15:07:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Edmonton Oilers will not be renewing Tom Renney's contract as head coach.
A lot of talk on TSN that Brent Sutter will be the next head coach as he has been fired from he Flames.

Thoughts? Beans?


Heres the story: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=396197

Edited by - semin-rules on 05/17/2012 16:55:56

just1n
Rookie



244 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2012 :  16:42:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why on earth would they want to hire Brent Sutter?
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4508 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2012 :  20:14:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here we go with Edmonton trying to steal the spotlight again during the playoffs . . .

I hear Ron Wilson is available, eh?
(walks away whistling, waiting to duck for the thrown projectile)

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest4315
( )

Posted - 05/18/2012 :  00:08:33  Reply with Quote
I'm surpised any Maple Leaf fans even knows what a spotlight is!
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Guest4227
( )

Posted - 05/18/2012 :  04:34:41  Reply with Quote
spotlight or playoffs
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2012 :  08:44:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ugh, I hate when I have to say this. Slozo, you are 100% correct. The Oilers are spotlight hogs aren't they??? Why announce this now?? So dumb. The Edmonton brass are getting bush league.

To the point at hand, I don't disagee with Renney leaving. I like him as a coach and I think he is a good coach. I just don't think he is the right coach.

The right coach is a guy that can continue to bring up the kids at the same time as holding the older guys accountable and creating a culture of winning.

There seems to be a 50/50 split of people in Edmonton saying that guy is Brent Sutter. I think the 50% of people saying that he is the right guy are completely off their rocker, but what do I know.

I don't think Sutter is the right guy for the job but I don't know if there is a name that jumps out that is the right guy for the job.

I just don't know.......

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2012 :  10:51:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It could be worse Beans. I heard when Alain Vigneault was rumoured to be on his way out here in Vancouver that he could very well land in Edm? I know you're not a big fan of his, so would this be worse???
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
332 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2012 :  10:53:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
what is dale hunter decided to give it a shot in EDM after stepping down for Washington??
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Guest7401
( )

Posted - 05/18/2012 :  11:34:40  Reply with Quote
As an oilers fan, I am happy to See Renney out the door. I think he is a good coach, and he did some good things. I don't think he has handled the veterans well, i.e. putting Belanger on the powerplay all the time, when thier leading scorer (Eberle) was sitting on the bench.
To address the "stealing the spotlight" during playoffs, it happens all the time. Why was there no complaint when Dale hunter stepped down during the playoffs? Edmonton's season was over in april, they are moving on with business items as they see fit. If they held on to Renney till people were ok with them not stealing the spotlight, than Renney would have a lesser chance of finding another NHL coaching posistion, which i think he deserves.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2012 :  12:12:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok guest, help me understand what Renney did wrong on the PP??? Do you think going from 29th in the NHL on PP in '11 to 3rd in the NHL in '12 has nothing to do with the coach??

PS - Jordan Eberle had more PP time than any other Oiler player and also had more PP points than any other player. There were 11 players on the Oilers roster who had more PP time than Eric Belanger.

If you are going to cite a reason that formulates an opinion, make sure it's accurate. Anyone who makes comments about the Oilers PP being an issue when it was top 5 in the NHL should reconsider their priorities.

Also, Dale Hunter clearly explained when he stepped down in Washington that he did it so he could be close to his family. His family does not live in Edmonton. Move on to the next candidate.

Finally, to Alex. I would never watch another Oilers game if AV was the coach.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5684 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2012 :  13:23:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Finally, to Alex. I would never watch another Oilers game if AV was the coach.




Lol, well, you look to be safe. Not only have i not heard his name mentioned since then, it appears, at least for now, that he is staying put in Vancouver? That could still change as MG has not committed to him as far as i understand?
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
332 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2012 :  13:31:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hhmmmm ok beans. what would you say if Pat Quinn took a stand behind the oil bench?

Edited by - mandree888 on 05/18/2012 13:31:25
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4508 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2012 :  21:07:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with you Beans - I also don't think Sutter would be a good fit in Edmonton.

They need discipline, and structure. A real tactician type guy, IMHO. An exes and o's guy.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest1752
( )

Posted - 05/22/2012 :  09:52:39  Reply with Quote
to start with i think the oilers should be thanking team canada for trying out their possible new coach, i think they need a coach with creditability so the young players will want to prove themselves and the older players will buy in...
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Guest8836
( )

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  08:18:16  Reply with Quote
Done Ralph Kruger
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Guest4315
( )

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  13:37:31  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Ok guest, help me understand what Renney did wrong on the PP??? Do you think going from 29th in the NHL on PP in '11 to 3rd in the NHL in '12 has nothing to do with the coach??


Ok I know this a little late considering Beans posted this in May but it's proof that Beans is not always right. Lol. Renney didn't do nothing wrong on the PP as he was not in charge of the PP(in '12 season). Ralph Krueger (not to be mistaken for Freddy's brother, Lol) was in charge of the PP. Krueger has now been appointed Coach for the Oilers. So if Renney was in charge of PP in '11 season and got 29th then the other guests' opinion would be correct. Krueger takes over last year ('12 on the PP) and the PP skyrockets to the 3rd spot. So Beans If you are going to cite a reason that formulates an opinion, make sure it's accurate.Stole that one from you. Hope you like how it feels. No hard feelings, right?...
Anyways, I hope Kruedger taking over as Coach improves the team as much as Kruedger taking over the PP improved the PP.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  13:48:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No hard feelings?? Sure, what ever you say. But just out of curiousity:

1 - How do you know that Kruegar was responsible for the PP last season?
2- How do you know that Kruegar wasn't responsible for the PP the year before??
3- If he was in charge of the PP, who do you think gave Kruegar that responsibility??

If I recall, Kruegar was actual responsible for the PP in both years. However, the buck stops with the Head Coach. Always has, always will. They take the crap when things don't work and they get the credit when things do work.


To the point at hand, as an Oiler fan I have to ask the question: WTF??? Seriously, this front office looks like the most disfunctional group in the NHL!! First of all, fire Tom Renney. Well, not even fire him. Say nothing to him for weeks, then publically say you are not renewing his contract. Then hire Craig MacTavish into a head office position adding even more people to the decision making process. Then go through the draft without a coach only to announce the head coach as the associate coach from last year??

I don't get it. Maybe someday this past few months with make sense but I can't see it today. All I can say is thank you to the hockey god for allowing me to cheer for the Oilers next year. I couldn't have done that if Sutter was announced as the coach.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

Edited by - Beans15 on 06/27/2012 13:48:54
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Guest4315
( )

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  14:18:46  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

No hard feelings?? Sure, what ever you say. But just out of curiousity:

1 - How do you know that Kruegar was responsible for the PP last season?
2- How do you know that Kruegar wasn't responsible for the PP the year before??
3- If he was in charge of the PP, who do you think gave Kruegar that responsibility??


1. I thought you were an Oilers fan, How did you not know??
2. I don't know, Hence why I underlined 'IF' when I stated Renney as head of PP in '11
3. He was definetly in charge of the PP(in '12), most likely Renney gave him that position. However Renney gets no credit for the job he did not do and only for the job he did do. Which unfortunately was hang out in the basement. If Kruedger achieves something and you give Renney credit then that is your lack of sight.

P.S.
It doesn't always land on the coach when negative/positive things happen. Sometimes it falls on the guy who hires the Coach. He is called a GM(General Manager). Your opinion seems to be getting in the way of reality. How come I have to explain this basic thing to you?

Also to get to the point at hand, as an Oiler fan shouldn't you be asking why haven't these changes been made sooner? Instead of WTF,
Fire Tom Renney: Good Move, not only has he kept the Oil in the basement but he lacks motivating the team. I feel like the Oilers were not motivated and Tom's #1 job before anything else should be Morale. How can a team achieve when they dont believe in their coach?
Hire Craig McTavish: Good Move, Was he a good coach? Maybe/Maybe Not. However that is besides the point. This is a management position. Craig knows Hockey and has been very active since last with the Oil. He can sub as a coach if need be and he recently took a business course. Sounds like a good guy to have help out the management that hasn't quite been there since '06.
Hire Kruedger: Only time will tell, but I say good move. He took a B-class team(Swiss) in the worlds' and gave A-class teams like Canada/Russia/U.S./Sweden a run for their money. He's been coaching for like 23 yrs. (i think). He used to play before that and he took the worst team in the NHL and gave them the 3rd best PP. Also since the firing of Renney I have heard nothing but good news of Kruedger.

Sounds like were on the right track to me Beans. Now cross your fingers and hope we get Suter and Schultz
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  15:13:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I didn't realize that I was talking to a member of the Oiler here. I am glad to see that "we're"on the right track with the decision being made. Who am I to argue? Clearly I am dealing with someone who knows far more of the inner workings of the team than I and my opinion is nothing but ill-informed.

I should just back away now before I really get got. I'll let you get back to the deals for Schultz and Suter. Don't forget to land a top end starting goalie too. "We" might need one of those........

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

Edited by - Beans15 on 06/27/2012 15:14:52
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Guest4315
( )

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  17:30:25  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Well, I didn't realize that I was talking to a member of the Oiler here. I am glad to see that "we're"on the right track with the decision being made. Who am I to argue? Clearly I am dealing with someone who knows far more of the inner workings of the team than I and my opinion is nothing but ill-informed.

I should just back away now before I really get got. I'll let you get back to the deals for Schultz and Suter. Don't forget to land a top end starting goalie too. "We" might need one of those........


Wow, have to say i am shocked you are not arguing with me. I'm not a staff member of the Oil but I pay attention to Hockey. Be it threw T.V. or Radio or Print and i'm surprised you (being a Oilers fan) have not heard none of this. Dubnyk is fine starting goalie for this coming year. Khabi is backup and dropped at the end of his contract next year. So finding a goalie if needed will be next year or at the trade deadline this coming year. Dubnyk basically is going to get this year to prove is hes ready. If we get some good D in front of him he will be and signing a goalie may not be needed with bunz/roy in the pipes.

So my question to you is have you really not heard any of the stuff in my last thread? Are you being sarcastic? Or are you really a Flames fan in disguise as an Oilers fan whose disguiesed as a Maple Leafs fan?
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  18:53:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We there I go. Getting got again. Sheesh, what was I thinking? Devin Dubnyk is a top teir elite goalie who has to take 'us' to the Promised Land.

My bad. I know nothing. Tell me Gennie, on what date are the Oilers going to confirm their President's trophy win this season. Christmas time? Before that?

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Guest9722
( )

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  20:57:46  Reply with Quote
Ralph Krueger???

Looks like they hired Al Bundy............
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Guest4315
( )

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  20:59:00  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

We there I go. Getting got again. Sheesh, what was I thinking? Devin Dubnyk is a top teir elite goalie who has to take 'us' to the Promised Land.

My bad. I know nothing. Tell me Gennie, on what date are the Oilers going to confirm their President's trophy win this season. Christmas time? Before that?

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!


So you are a sore loser then. Thanx for confirming. Also when did I say Dubnyk is this top tier elite goaltender who will take us to the promised land? When did I say Oil will get the Presidents trophy? Oh ya I didnt say none of those things. I doubt the Oilers will even make the playoffs. It's about improvement from last year now. Dubnyk is an improvement from last year. As Khabi was the starter last year not Dubnyk. Dubnyk is still developing. Obviously this takes time. Obviously you have no points to make or you would make them instead of trying to bash me with your weak attempt at sarcasm. You must be mad because of my original post when I supplied proof that your not always right, right? Why do even bother asking these questions? You will most likely ignore them and say something stupid like 'Theo Peckam is the best defensemen in Russia, go Flames!!!'

Ooops, guess I spilled the beans
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  21:57:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I give what I get. When there is an intelligent post then I will give an intelligent response. When there is a ridiculous post full of backhanded comments without merit, I will answer with ridiculous sarcasm.

I'll let you decide where your line of posts belongs.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Guest4315
( )

Posted - 06/27/2012 :  22:59:06  Reply with Quote
'Backhanded comments without merit'. What are you living under a rock? You think I just made up this stuff about Renney/Kruedger/MacT. Why don't you do some research before crying and resorting to ridiculous sarcasm. You have gone of topic by a mile here. We are supposed to be talking 'Oilers Coach'. Suppose you can't handle being wrong though. Point is Kruedger is responsible for the PP upgrade. Kruedger is the new coach. Renney acomplished nothing but a 30th place and a 29th place. If you have a problem with my opinion of your opinion then thats because you have a negative opinion. Example 'WTF??? Seriously, this front office looks like the most disfunctional group in the NHL!!'. This is how you talk about your team. No Faith. You further state how you don't understand: Fire Renny/Hire MacT/Hire Kreudger. I explain to you the upside of this and you turn into sarcastic sam. So go ahead and don't listen. As a matter of fact don't even watch. Oilers don't need negative fans and last time I checked beans make you fart not smart.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2012 :  08:45:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4315

'Backhanded comments without merit'. What are you living under a rock? You think I just made up this stuff about Renney/Kruedger/MacT. Why don't you do some research before crying and resorting to ridiculous sarcasm. You have gone of topic by a mile here. We are supposed to be talking 'Oilers Coach'. Suppose you can't handle being wrong though. Point is Kruedger is responsible for the PP upgrade. Kruedger is the new coach. Renney acomplished nothing but a 30th place and a 29th place. If you have a problem with my opinion of your opinion then thats because you have a negative opinion. Example 'WTF??? Seriously, this front office looks like the most disfunctional group in the NHL!!'. This is how you talk about your team. No Faith. You further state how you don't understand: Fire Renny/Hire MacT/Hire Kreudger. I explain to you the upside of this and you turn into sarcastic sam. So go ahead and don't listen. As a matter of fact don't even watch. Oilers don't need negative fans and last time I checked beans make you fart not smart.



Examples of backhanded comments without merit above. Read the forum guidelines. Keep to the topic, do not personally attack other posters. If and when you can do that, I would gladly debate the merits of your argument.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

Edited by - Beans15 on 06/28/2012 08:45:54
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4508 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2012 :  10:30:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guest 4315,

Stay away from personal attacks and keep it on topic. You are treading a fine line here.

You have some good and valid hockey points to make, stick to those.


"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4508 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2012 :  10:42:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I may comment and poke my Leafs head into the catfight happening in the Oiler's dressing room,

I think the Oil management have blundered a few times here . . . namely, going into the draft coachless, then deciding on the guy who was there all along as assistant coach. What was wrong with making that decision earlier? It's not as if any potential coaches were suddenly removed from their list weeks before the draft . . . seems like no sense.

That being said, from the points that the guest makes, I'll give him this caveat: the Oil made a huge jump to the #1 pp after Ryan Nugent Hopkins arrived. They finished at #3, since RNH's injury greatly affected them.

To whit, take a look at this blog I googled up, found in the Edmonton Journal:
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2012/01/27/the-oilers-power-play-is-outstanding-but-only-when-rnh-is-directing-traffic/

It's well written and well researched.

You'd think, as an Oiler's fan guest, you'd know what straw stirs the Oilers power play, and that in this case . . . it's really probably the player(s), not the coach, responsible for the huge rise in efficiency.

boo-yah!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Edited by - slozo on 06/28/2012 10:43:15
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2012 :  12:18:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very valid Slozo. In fact, I would take it a step further and say that the PP was really clicking when RNH was on one half board, Hemsky was the the other, Eberle and Hall would transition between the strong side corner and the front of the net when the puck was on the weak side, and Cory Potter was bombing it from the point. The 2nd line PP and the PP if any of those parts were missing was a lesser unit. Although it did seem that RNH was the straw that stirred the drink.

And again, I believe Kruegar was responsible for the PP both last season and the season before. It's hard to agree with a comment that pegs the negative year as Renney's responsibility and the positive year as Krueger's. I am not saying that moving Renney out was a bad call nor Kruegar being hired as a bad call. I am just a litte curious as to why the Oilers did the things they did when they did them. Going to the draft without a coach and hiring Craig MacTavish as a head office guy when there is already a President (Lowe), GM (Tambellini), assist GM (Olczyk), Sr Director of Players (Moores) and Director of Players (Sillinger)? That doesn't include the scouting side of the team.

How many cooks does one kitchen need??

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Guest4178
( )

Posted - 06/28/2012 :  12:37:13  Reply with Quote
Interesting point (and question): "How many cooks does one kitchen need?"

I would venture to guess that the Oilers are about average with number of team personnel.

But if you want to see an organization with the most bodies listed under executive and office staff, check out the New York Rangers website: http://rangers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=54019

Granted, there are a number of people who work for MSG Entertainment, but there are definitely lots of people involved in operating and running their hockey team.

Things have changed a lot over the years. I seem to recall Fred Shero being the first NHL head coach to have an assistant. At the time (in the early 70's), this was considered bold and unconventional.
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Guest4315
( )

Posted - 06/28/2012 :  16:58:14  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Guest 4315,

Stay away from personal attacks and keep it on topic. You are treading a fine line here.

You have some good and valid hockey points to make, stick to those.


"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug


Hey look at that I tell Beans he's off topic and he reply's telling me to stay on topic and then gets backup to tell me to stay on topic. Nice, very classic!

Hey Slozo, I believe I was on topic. Then Beans went sarcastic and forced me off topic. I tryed explainng and he continued his off-topic sarcasm. Thats when I realized I was dealing with a childish person. (Sarcasm/Putting words in my mouth/crying cuz things are not going your way - all childish). Go ahead and read down from my original post and tell me if that's not true. Sorry if you can't handle my 'personal attacks' as you call them. I guess if you consider my post as having 'personal attacks' then surely you would agree that Beans had post with 'personal attacks' as well.

So what, no warning to Beans to stay on topic. No warnings for 'personal attacks'. I guess that's fair. Also in Rexall place their is about 200 chef's and every restaraunt i have been too has at least 20 chef's. What does a kitchen have to do with a Hockey clubs managers anyways??
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