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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
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just1n
PickupHockey Pro
282 Posts |
 Posted - 01/15/2014 : 17:38:01
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| Yeah, Scrivens is a UFA after this season. I don't know anything about Hendricks except for the seemingly crappy contract, seems pretty weird. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2014 : 17:58:26
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| The Oilers payed to walk away from a bad story in Dubnyk. Dead last in goals against and they got a role player in return. From what I read Hendricks is suppose to be good in the shootout and had a coach give him praises in the article provided on yahoo. To be honest I am glad the Dubnyk show is over. Good luck for him in Nashville, they need a starter, but by the time Rinne is healthy Dubnyk will be fighting for backup duty with the 2 unproven, but talented goalies currently in Nashville's system. |
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just1n
PickupHockey Pro
282 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2014 : 18:01:33
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| Dubnyk is a UFA at the end of the season as well, that makes a bit more sense. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2014 : 19:18:39
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Guest8014
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Posted - 01/15/2014 : 19:41:44
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Alex...re : you don't get this at all....come on, its the oilers. that's what they do. that's why they suck. they are the new York islanders of the western conference.
not only do they trade away a pending ufa and replace him with a 4th liner on a 4 year deal, they give away a 3rd round pick to LA to replace dubnyk (which really isn't much of an upgrade, if at all)
Scrivens was the third stringer in LA don't forget, he got benched shortly after Quick got injured and martin jones got sickly hot. I doubt he will be the key to the Stanley cup for the oilers going forward.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2014 : 23:31:26
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When I started this thread, I'd not heard of the Scrivens acquisition which I actually don't mind. I don't think he'll be the answer either, but he's an Alberta boy who's got some skills AND familiarity with the coach from his days in the TO organization (Marlies) but lets face it, the way the Oilers play D right now, Terry Sawchuk prob wouldn't fare too well! Scrivens does get a chance to play more than he's been able to in both TO and LA so he's gotta be a little happy with that at least?
I did read that the Oilers went after Hendriks as a FA but weren't able to get him so obviously he's been on their radar for some reason? Maybe he's one of those guys that the coach really likes for some reason??? |
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Guest6382
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Posted - 01/15/2014 : 23:42:42
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I like Joshua's assessment. Dubnyk had to go. He lost the confidence of his teammates and management. And better to get something in return rather than nothing at all. Matt Hendricks is a gritty player, and while his contract is a bit high (I would be okay with him at $1 million per season), the Oilers can afford to overpay at a few positions. The don't have anyone over $6 million a season, and they have an owner ready and willing to spend to the cap maximum if necessary.
As for Scrivens, I like him and his stats. He's been north of a .900 save percentage for most of his professional hockey career. I think he's a trade up on Dubnyk, and as for Nashville winning this trade, Dubnyk (who is not a starting NHL goalie by the way), will be lucky to win/keep the backup position when Rinne returns.
And yes, the Oilers do suck right now, but I think MacTavish is making some good moves. Ference and Gordon were good additions, and Perron was a great trade.
I heard on TSN tonight that there have only been 16 trades in the NHL this season, and the Oilers were involved with six of these trades. MacTavish has only been at the job about a year, but he's trying. Power forwards don't grow on trees, stud defensemen are not easily acquired (or traded away), and top goalies rarely get moved. But another comment recently made is that MacTavish is over-valuing assets like Hemsky and Gagner, so has this prevented some trade action?
Getting back to Dubnyk, you're over-valuing Dubnyk if you think he's a starting NHL goalie. In an NHL depth chart, I would rank him in the 40-50 range of top goalies. At best!
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2014 : 06:35:24
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It seems like a bum deal at first glance for the Oil, but when taking into account this 4th liner is not a plug, and he has shootout skills, and the expiring contract f Dubnyk . . . makes sense. And they basically know, or feel they know, what Dubnyk is at this point.
Scrivens is no gamble really - he'll get a big chance to play, he's a serviceable back-up at the very least at this point, and he'll be motivated, playing in his home province, playing for his next contract. It's win-win for the Oil.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2014 : 10:12:44
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Ok, so I read a bit more about Hendriks. He is a 3rd, 4th line player who is not a defensive specialist, but is not considered a irresponsible player. He is considered a physical 100 foot player who can play all 3 forward positions and can plug in on any line or role. Heard that Edmonton was actually seeking this guy and the opportunity to unload Dubnyk came about during there inquiries. This to me sounds like Hendriks was the target and Dubnyk was a dump. To me this is a good move by MacT because what is the weakest part of the Oilers is role players who can grind, much like the guests post regarding the other pickups (Perron, Gordon and Ferrence)
Schrivens was considered a decent backup in Toronto, but not really considered a starter. He was a throw in on the Bernier pickup and surprised LA with his steady play. I don't see him as a legit starter, but he has the makings of a good backup who might be an upgrade on the clearly not #1 Dubnyk. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2014 : 14:51:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest6382
I think he's a trade up on Dubnyk, and as for Nashville winning this trade, Dubnyk (who is not a starting NHL goalie by the way), will be lucky to win/keep the backup position when Rinne returns.
I disagree. Nashville offloaded a near 2M / year contract with 3 years left on it on a guy who was very ineffective for them, in return for a guy who was pretty good as a starter last year who will likely be better than either of the young guys they've been using in Rinne's absence. If Dubnyk, in front of a much better D than he's ever experienced at the NHL level, can win them some games and somehow sneak them into the playoffs, it's a golden deal for them. After that, he's a free agent and they decide, as does he, if he likes it there enough to sign as a backup to Rinne moving forward.
I'm not saying Edmonton totally lost this deal as it's not a huge deal either way, but they've taken on contract for what is generally a 4th liner, at nearly 2M per year. BTW, Hendricks is also 32 years old! Not likely to get any better than he is at this point.
Slozo.....i will be very interested moving forward to see how often this guy shoots over guys like Yakupov, RNH, Eberle, Hall, Perron, etc........ |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2014 : 17:34:15
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I dont think this is stupid at all on the oilers part. its time to move Duby, its just not working out there...move on.
Ben S may surprise some people here. I think he is a pretty good goalie, more than just a serviceable back - up for sure. He still holds the college record for the most consecutive shut minutes. I think he went almost 4-5 games of shut - out hockey ( something like that )....he has potential, no doubt about it.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2014 : 21:38:37
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
I dont think this is stupid at all on the oilers part. its time to move Duby, its just not working out there...move on.
Ben S may surprise some people here. I think he is a pretty good goalie, more than just a serviceable back - up for sure. He still holds the college record for the most consecutive shut minutes. I think he went almost 4-5 games of shut - out hockey ( something like that )....he has potential, no doubt about it.
Duke......I agree it was time to move on with Dubnyk. I don't have a problem with that part AT ALL! I've never been high on him to begin with. My problem is the return they got. Not that I'd expect a lot by any means, but I don't like the contract they took back considering they could have walked away from Dubnyk at season's end. They got a 4th / sometimes 3rd liner who's 32 AND who has 3 more years after this one on his deal at 1.8M per year! THAT is the part I don't like. Who knows though, maybe he blossoms at age 33 and suddenly becomes relevant?  |
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Guest3792
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Posted - 01/17/2014 : 13:42:59
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| Heard on the radio this Hendricks was sought after by N.Y.R. & the Flyers as well. For what he brings to the table Edmonton can't really be losing out all that bad ass they have very little of his type of pressence. In all honesty 1.8 for 3 years is not bad at all for the Oil to take on his contract. They have the room, cap space and owner who is willing to shell out the bucks. On the flip side the Oiler's have brought in a number of guys for that exact same purpose over the last several years with no success. See Belanger, Smithson, etc. |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2014 : 16:40:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest3792
. For what he brings to the table Edmonton can't really be losing out all that bad ass they have very little of his type of pressence.
I can overlook the misspelling of 'presence', but did you use the word 'ass' in place of a period?
Anyway, I am hoping that the Oiler's "braintrust" doesn't feel their goaltending situation has been handled. It has been alluded to in the past that others such as Bishop, Schneider, and Miller have been unsuccessfully courted, but really. Could we not have done a little better?
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014. |
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Guest8014
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Posted - 01/17/2014 : 17:58:24
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i think the bigger problem with the oilers is management. Forget this bad trade, why have they wasted the last three seasons with dubnyk as the starter when clearly he would never be the answer. This situation should have been addressed years ago.
this franchise is like a dog chasing its tail. it doesn't know what direction to go in. they seem afraid to make major moves. by the time they get it figured out all these highly toughted draft picks will have moved on to brighter pastures and hopefully will find success there.
you have to wonder if say the oilers were coached by an elite coach (ie Hitchcock, babcock, etc) if they would still be in this situation. Hiring an AHL coach at this point looks like the absolute wrong move.
the oilers WILL NOT make the playoffs in 2014. Hopefully 2015 though they can stay relevant passed the first 10 games. |
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Guest4377
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Posted - 01/17/2014 : 23:31:19
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Guest8014 - you sound like a frustrated Oilers fan. Are you the guy who threw the Hemsky jersey on the ice a few games ago? :)
I understand your points though, but if you go back three seasons ago, Dubnyk was 24 years old, and in the top 20 of NHL goalies is save percentage. If you saw his future decline (and saw other goalies future incline), good for you, but I'm guessing you're using hindsight in your present assessment.
As for a franchise afraid of making major moves, what prospective deals are you suggesting? And remember, there are two sides to every deal.
And if you think the Oilers "highly touted" draft picks are going anywhere, most of them (Hall, Eberle and RNH) are locked into long-term contacts, and others (i.e. J. Schultz and Yakupov) are RFA's, so except for a trade, they're not heading off to "greener pastures" anytime soon.
I do agree with you on one point though - the Oilers need an elite coach, but are elite coaches easily acquired? Guys like Crawford, Hitchcock, Bylsma, Trotz, Babcock, Julien, Boudreau, Sutter (Darryl in LA), and Quenneville are hard (if not impossible) to obtain.
Dallas Eakins appears to have good credentials, and with only half a season with the team, is he accountable for the Oilers current standing? As for NHL experience, many NHL coaches (not unlike players) come out of the minor leagues. Two of the top turnaround teams this season are coached by guys with no NHL experience - Jon Cooper in Tampa and Patrick Roy with Colorado.
So with the Oilers, is it coaching, management or player personnel for their current (or recent) woes? In my opinion, it's a combination (in varying degrees) of all of the above. But with four head coaches in five years, I think the team needs stability at this position.
And getting back to the subject at hand (Dubnyk), the Oilers have tried to improve at the goalie position for the last 2-3 years (Khabibulin, LaBarbera, and most recently, Bryzgalov and Scrivens), but they have failed (so far) with their efforts. The Oilers have not had a good starting goalie for a number of years (going back to Roloson), and they have suffered as a result.
This is management's responsibility, and as a result, management has to take the blame. Goaltending is a key position in hockey, and the Oilers have failed to find an adequate or dominate player in this position the last number of years, going back to Roloson, or before that, Tommy Salo, Bill Ranford or Curtis Joseph.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2014 : 11:48:46
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| See, I disagree that coaching and goaltending have been the root problem for the Oilers. Although I have been preaching the Oilers goaltending of both Dubnyk and the oft injured Habby needed to be upgraded, I have never bashed the coaching. I think the Oilers past 4 coaches knew how to win games, but the roster struggled to excecute a complete game. 1 year ago they struggled 5on5, the year before they struggled on special teams. This year the team is the worst in goals againt and everyone is pointing to goaltending and coaching. What has been lacking for the Oilers for it seems like a decade has been strong team defense. I personally believe the goaltending and coaching are as good as they have been since the last time the Oilers played in the post season, but now they have to address the defense. They need to take some of the Elite talent forward they have and trade for a couple top 4 defenseman. I think this team is close very close to finally assembling a winning roster if they deal from there strengths to fill there weakness's. |
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Guest8014
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Posted - 01/19/2014 : 12:43:13
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for everyone who thinks the answer is trading "elite" talent for a defensemen, which dmen would you like them to target? The top end guys that come to mind : keith, weber, suter, chara, seabrook, doughty, kronwall, karlsson, etc ...the majority of them are either signed long term, have no trade clauses, or theres no way in hell their teams are trading them as elite shutdown guys are hard to come by.
theres others such as subban and letang that may be tradeable but all they add is offense when clearly the problem is team defense.
so not sure if you will need to step down to the next tier of dmen potentially available.
I assume the 'elite' talent the oilers would trade would include eberle, rnh, hall, yakupov....is it worth trading any of them for a less than stellar dman in return?
Curious what kind of trade options you have in mind. I still think the problem is management. What is it 4 coaches in 5 years? They decided that's the best approach to how to grow these young guns? Plus things really don't seem to be working for the latest 'flavour of the month' Eakins.
if this roster is truly laced with 'elite' talent, then why are NONE of them playing at an 'elite' level. Crosby and toews I believe both won the cup in their entry level contract so using age as an excuse is exactly that, an excuse.
bring in an experienced coach who'll hold guys accountable for a change and hopefully EVERYONE starts playing to their 'elite' potential, night in, night out. Now that I see paul Maurice and his work so far in winnepeg, wouldn't he have looked good behind the oilers bench"??? |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2014 : 15:03:09
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| Guest 8014, I get by your list of defenseman, that you think the only good defenseman are the ones which top the stats list. I would suggest if you look at the lowest goals against teams in the league there would be fewer defenseman you could name or guess there stats for. These players are what makes a team with 3-4 goals per game against into a 2-3 goals against team. These are the type of defenseman that the Oilers need to seek. If you look at the top 5 in goals against in the NHL, you would probably quote me the names of the offensive defenseman, but can you name me there regular line partners, whos play allows them to be creative offensively. Top 5 include LA (Doughty, Voynov), Boston (Chara, Krug), St Louis (Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk), New Jersey (Zidlicky, Green) and San Jose (Boyle, Demers). I would suggest the Oilers need the name the doesn't immediately come to mind because if you don't notice him on the ice, generally in a bad play or way, he is doing his defensive job really well. That is the type of player that the Oilers need to trade for which would bring the stability to the lineup the Oilers are lacking and allow the creative players to play there offensive game best. I would suggest the Oilers could spare either one of Yakopov, Gagner, Hemsky, RNH or Eberle. 1 could be traded without severely hampering the Oilers offense and for the record I would trade Yakopov 1st of those players. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2014 : 15:49:04
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| We have Phaneuf all locked up here in Toronto......make an offer ?? |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2014 : 15:50:10
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Hell he is the leagues 4th highest paid Defense-man  ...he must be great. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2014 : 17:21:47
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Duke....i've been in the middle on this deal (somewhat undecided) since day 1. However, 1 think i will say is that he may be 4th highest now, but you have to take into consideration the timing! Guys who are on expiring deals like he just was, could surpass him in that regard.
Still, i do think he's a little overpaid, but i also think the Leafs hands were somewhat tied and i think they hope that he can help some of the young guys mature and become the players they're capable of. It's kinda like the Sedins here in Van. They're prob be rewarded for past contributions as they'll likely not put up 100 point seasons ever again, but it's also assumed they'll play the role of mentor for some of the younger guys coming up.
ETA....Apologies for going way off track here. When I read Duke's comment, I assumed we were in the Phaneuf thread? Oops... |
Edited by - Alex116 on 01/20/2014 21:05:13 |
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Guest4400
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Posted - 01/21/2014 : 05:11:39
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| I was hoping that the Jets and Oilers can make a deal, I wanna see Byfuglien get traded for the Oilers and Winnipeg getting in return Gagner and Yakupov or something similair.Although that would probably never happen, what are your guys thoughts? |
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Guest3188
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Posted - 01/21/2014 : 16:02:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4400
I was hoping that the Jets and Oilers can make a deal, I wanna see Byfuglien get traded for the Oilers and Winnipeg getting in return Gagner and Yakupov or something similair.Although that would probably never happen, what are your guys thoughts?
Big Buff is not the 2nd of the pairing which is the defensively responsible player. He is a crash bang offensive player who subs in forward position. Not exactly the type of player the Oilers need. That being said if I could watch Buff in Edmonton on a regular basis I would say its worth a look. He's a hell of an impact player.
Back to Phaneuf for a second, he was rumour to be of interest to the Oilers earlier in the year and would certainly add that compete level the Oilers are lacking. Doubt the locker room would be quiet if a player consistently misses his defensive assignment with him on the team.
For the record neither is at all likely to want to move to the Oilers. If they move it will be to a contender |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2014 : 17:51:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4400
I was hoping that the Jets and Oilers can make a deal, I wanna see Byfuglien get traded for the Oilers and Winnipeg getting in return Gagner and Yakupov or something similair.Although that would probably never happen, what are your guys thoughts?
I agree with 3188. Byfuglien is prob not the type of player the Oilers really need. Any team could prob use his skill set, but it's not exactly the Oilers "main" need. Also, no way they get Gagner AND Yakupov for him. They wouldnt' even get Yak on his own for Buff. Gagner perhaps, but again, i don't see that trade happening.
I think the Oilers should make Anaheim an offer for a goalie. They've got an abundance of good ones in Hiller, Fasth, Andersen, Dansk and Gibson. I believe Gibson is their "goalie of the future" but he may be a few years away yet. Do they sign Hiller (UFA at seasons end)? I'm sure they don't want him to walk, but is there any chance they trade him before the deadline with how well he and they have played? Prob not! If they wait, they risk losing him for nothing (other than maybe a draft pick for his negotiating rights?) but i just can't see them letting him go with the season they're currently having. There's def an extra goalie (or two) in the mix in Anaheim, which could be had by a needy team! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 12:13:44
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guest 3188 was me.
See I disagree that Buffs wouldn't or should get Yakopov in return. At this point in there careers Buffs is better defensively and similar offensive potential from forward or defense. He definitely would up the Oilers physical level. As a Gm I would make that trade. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 12:17:38
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| I only read the first half of your response Alex and felt it best to respond to the 2nd part. The Oilers finally have depth at Goaltending. They do not need to bring in another goaltender at this point. The need big, physical or 2way players and can afford to drop young offensive yet small forwards. I don't think they should pursue another goaltender unless they get a sure fire #1. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 17:48:00
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I only read the first half of your response Alex and felt it best to respond to the 2nd part. The Oilers finally have depth at Goaltending. They do not need to bring in another goaltender at this point. The need big, physical or 2way players and can afford to drop young offensive yet small forwards. I don't think they should pursue another goaltender unless they get a sure fire #1.
Bit of a dilemma i suppose? I mean, Beans always said (at least i think it was them) that they need an experienced goalie and not just some young kid to grow with them. So, a guy like Gibson or Andersen may not be the answer? However, there's not many mid 20's goalies out there with experience who are available. They tried to get Schneider from Vancouver but basically couldn't because Vancouver's "ask" from a division rival was deemed too high but that's the kind of guy they need. Someone who looks capable of the #1 spot but hasn't found the chance where they are. Bernier would have been another, though LA being a div rival didn't help there either! I don't think i'd go the route of a 30+ goalie as i'd want a guy to be around more than 4-5 years if possible. Sure, many goalies play into their late 30's i know, but i wouldn't wanna rely on that. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2014 : 10:22:06
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I think the opportunity will present itself in the future for them to find that young goalie to grow with the team. The trick now is to build a competitive team around the veterans on the roster. Besides Schrivens has shown he could be a good goalie. Not saying he is elite or has the capacity to be a number 1, but he is exactly the type of goalie you are suggesting.
Funny since his trade Dubnyk has been criticised by his new team for having picked up a few bad habits and will be held from the lineup to be tuned up. Apparently unloading him was a good thing based on how his new team feels about him. |
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Dubnyk traded 
