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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
 Posted - 04/29/2010 : 16:03:45
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I believe we has some Hart trophy threads earlier but with the nominees being announced today (Crosby / Ovechkin / Sedin), i heard something that surprised me and was looking for confirmation.
From what i heard, the winner of the award, and presumably other major awards, has already been figured out (voted for) and the "nominees" are actually the top 3 vote getters. It's not as though those who vote get this three man list and then make their votes which is what i though happened. If that's the case, to me they really shouldn't be called nominees as ANY player is eligable and could receive a vote?
Does anyone know if this is the case?
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 16:10:11
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Yeah I think it's always been like that. If you look stats for any trophies vote you could have like 15 players on the list, and the 3 nominees are always the top three. So I think they vote, name the top 3 for suspense and so people will watch the award show.
My MVP is Crosby!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 16:20:56
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Interesting, like i said, i'd hardly consider them "nominees" in that case, moreso finalists really.
Nice to see Henrik with recognition. My vote would go to Crosby as well but would obviously love to see Henrik steal it after the incredible year he had! In my mind, either is more deserving than Ovechkin. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 16:34:17
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Yes, most people don't realize that this is how it's done! Does it remove some of the suspense for you this way, Alex?
Also, some winners already know that they won beforehand. Many years ago I worked with a close relative of Adam Graves that went to the award show with him and they definitely knew in advance that Graves was winning the Bill Masterton Trophy. I know it's not a major, but still - they definitely knew in advance...many days in advance. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 16:35:21
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quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
Yes, most people don't realize that this is how it's done! Does it remove some of the suspense for you this way, Alex?
Also, some winners already know that they won beforehand. Many years ago I worked with a close relative of Adam Graves that went to the award show with him and they definitely knew in advance that Graves was winning the Bill Masterton Trophy. I know it's not a major, but still - they definitely knew in advance...many days in advance.
Well, 9 years ago...not necessarily "many years ago" |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 16:39:28
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NHL site lists them as finalists not nominees.
The vote has always been done before the playoffs begin. |
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Captain Luongo
Top Prospect
1 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 21:20:44
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| Henrik, for the first time in his career, showed everyone he could carry his team without his brother. Daniel missed 19 games due to injury and he still excelled. Crosby will win this award a few times in his career, but Henrik Sedin is the most deserving of this award this year! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 21:50:58
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Given these 3 nominees, I think that Henrik deserves the award. I was surprised that neither Bryzgalov or Miller were nominated - just picking the top 3 scorers seems a bit boring really. Ah well, what can you do.
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 05:33:45
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I was really glad to hear that the goalies were left out of it, as I think it should be left for the forwards mainly.
My vote is for Crosby, he meant even more to his team than Henrik did, not to take anything away from his accomplishments. I think that this year, Ovechkin and others were a step below in terms of value to their team.
And no, I had absolutely no idea it was the top three vote-getters announced . . . what a bizarre and odd way to do it. That's the NHL for ya though!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 09:16:29
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quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
Yes, most people don't realize that this is how it's done! Does it remove some of the suspense for you this way, Alex?
Also, some winners already know that they won beforehand. Many years ago I worked with a close relative of Adam Graves that went to the award show with him and they definitely knew in advance that Graves was winning the Bill Masterton Trophy. I know it's not a major, but still - they definitely knew in advance...many days in advance.
Doesn't take the suspense away at all really, we still have to wait till June to find out the winner? I just find it odd that they're often referred to as "nominees"? I assumed that three guys were "nominated" by the league or whoever and then the voters submitted their votes? I'm not sure i like the way they do it really because i'm sure Miller and Bryzgalov (and others) got some votes which in the end IMO are wasted votes really. Maybe they ought to do it like they do when they vote for Olympic cities and after the 3 finalists are voted on, all voters re-vote. In this case, those who voted for someone other than the three finalists would have a say in which of the three is the winner?
Not really a big deal, it's likely been like this all along, i was mostly just curious to have my question answered and it has.  |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 13:04:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
Yes, most people don't realize that this is how it's done! Does it remove some of the suspense for you this way, Alex?
Also, some winners already know that they won beforehand. Many years ago I worked with a close relative of Adam Graves that went to the award show with him and they definitely knew in advance that Graves was winning the Bill Masterton Trophy. I know it's not a major, but still - they definitely knew in advance...many days in advance.
Doesn't take the suspense away at all really, we still have to wait till June to find out the winner? I just find it odd that they're often referred to as "nominees"? I assumed that three guys were "nominated" by the league or whoever and then the voters submitted their votes? I'm not sure i like the way they do it really because i'm sure Miller and Bryzgalov (and others) got some votes which in the end IMO are wasted votes really. Maybe they ought to do it like they do when they vote for Olympic cities and after the 3 finalists are voted on, all voters re-vote. In this case, those who voted for someone other than the three finalists would have a say in which of the three is the winner?
Not really a big deal, it's likely been like this all along, i was mostly just curious to have my question answered and it has.
The voting is conducted at the end of the regular season by members of the Professional Hockey Writers Association, and each individual voter ranks their top five candidates on a 10-7-5-3-1 points system.[5] Three finalists are named and the trophy is awarded at the NHL Awards ceremony after the playoffs.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_Memorial_Trophy |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2010 : 13:27:56
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But watch though....after the awards show many fans of certain players and teams are going to point to playoff success as a point of argument as to why their player should have received more votes...not realizing that the voting happened before the playoffs started.
Alex - I know you weren't saying it was a big deal, I was just curious if it affected your feelings about it in some way. I remember when I first heard that this was how it was done, I was taken aback. I suppose that I had always seen it as a 3 player vote. Mind you this was back in the eighties probably.  |
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Guest5545
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Posted - 05/02/2010 : 20:28:26
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| Crosby would get my vote. |
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Guest2115
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Posted - 05/03/2010 : 07:42:54
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| Should be Ryan Miller without Miller the sabres are not even a playoff team let alone a division winner |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2010 : 07:51:17
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I was not surprised to see both Bryzgalov and Miller as finalists as 2 goalies out of 3 players is a stretch. However, I was suprised to not see either of them. That's a bit of a shame.
That being said, out of the list I would personally say Crosby. I think the differential of points between Crosby and the 2nd highest scorer on Pittsburgh is a hugely important. Even more important, outside of the power play Ovechkin had the benefit of playing nearly exclusively with a 100 point player. Sedin had the benefit of playing with an 85 point player, Crosby had the benefit of playing with 40-50 point players.
If I was voting, I would say Crosby, Sedin, Ovechkin in that order.
To all you Vancouver fans who know I have a hate on for the Canucks, Sedin is VERY close to Crosby this season. Say what you will about D Sedin's injury for 20 games, he still has a far more positive impact to H Sedin than anyone Crosby plays with.
I think of it this way, Ovechkin and Sedin both had at leasdt one player's support through the season, Crosby carried who ever he was playing with. |
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2010 : 15:19:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I was not surprised to see both Bryzgalov and Miller as finalists as 2 goalies out of 3 players is a stretch. However, I was suprised to not see either of them. That's a bit of a shame.
That being said, out of the list I would personally say Crosby. I think the differential of points between Crosby and the 2nd highest scorer on Pittsburgh is a hugely important. Even more important, outside of the power play Ovechkin had the benefit of playing nearly exclusively with a 100 point player. Sedin had the benefit of playing with an 85 point player, Crosby had the benefit of playing with 40-50 point players.
If I was voting, I would say Crosby, Sedin, Ovechkin in that order.
To all you Vancouver fans who know I have a hate on for the Canucks, Sedin is VERY close to Crosby this season. Say what you will about D Sedin's injury for 20 games, he still has a far more positive impact to H Sedin than anyone Crosby plays with.
I think of it this way, Ovechkin and Sedin both had at leasdt one player's support through the season, Crosby carried who ever he was playing with.
Most of the analysts that are talking about this award have picked Sedin but I just don't see it. I believe that Crosby will beat out the other two contenders mainly because of what Beans pointed out. |
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Guest6534
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Posted - 05/03/2010 : 16:10:19
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I think it will come down to Crosby or Henrik. It just didn't seem like Ovi's year with the suspensions etc.
As a Canucks fan I hope the eastern voters split between Crosby and Ovi, and Henrik wins because of it.
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2010 : 23:49:22
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If considering various unofficial criteria (total team success, individual total impact on team, placement in scoring race, amount of support staff on both their line and throughout their team etc etc) it is not clear that there is a front-runner, is there?
Will Ovie and Crosby split the vote? Or is Sedin just the distant 3rd place finisher that gets listed in the 'Finalists'?
Obviously Ovechkin would have won the Goals and Points categories if he hadn't have missed as many games due to injury and suspension, but last time I checked voting wasn't done based on 'shoulda coulda woulda' or 'maybe'.
Sedin and Ovechkin led their teams to Division wins, but Crosby's Pen only missed out by 2 points, going down to the wire.
It's close on ALL counts, isn't it?
Historically, it seems to go to the player that generally had the best season (Joe Thornton, '05-'06 is a great example of this) so does this mean Sedin will win it?
An incredibly high percentage of the time it simply goes to the scoring champ even if that player wins by a mere 2 points. However, just last season it did not go to the scoring champ.
This one is a toss-up, but I think I smell a Crosby win on this one! |
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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 13:12:43
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I will go with Crosby my hometown boy
GO SHARKS GO |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 22:03:38
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My Hart Trophy winner is Sidney Crosby, hands down.
Sidney Crosby is most valuable this year to his team, more so than Sedin and Ovechkin, by far... in my opinion.
Crosby has played this season with far less talented forwards and linemates, than Ovechkin & Henrik.
Alex Ovechkin (3rd Place Finish): Played with a linemate (Backstrom) that finished the year with 100 Points. Plays with the most effective offensive D-man in the game the past couple of seasons (Green). Plays the Power Play with another guy named Alex, who finished with 40+ Goals and is a natural Sniper in the NHL. Not to mention, all of the other guys playing for the Pens who are offensivley gifted.
Henrik Sedin (Runner-Up): Although his brother Daniel missed some games, before his injury and after, Daniel produced as per usual. He finished over a point-per-game, and these two are just dynamic together. Linemates (alternating) Burrows & Samuelsson played well with them too, with Burrows finishing in career high in goals and points. Also, backing them up is Roberto Luongo. Not too shabby.
Sidney Crosby (Winner): Plays with Kunitz & Guerin. Bill Guerin is aging, and over the hill now. His speed lacks greatly, and just can't produce as needed. Chris Kunitz is a power-forward type player. But, the guy is not Backstrom or Daniel Sedin quality. No where near it. Sid plays with 50 Point guys, who likely only hit 50 points because they play with Sid to begin with!
Yes, Sid has a guy named Malkin on his team. But they are not line mates, and Malkin lacked this year due to a nagging injury all season long. Including, missed games due to it. So if anything, Malkin had less to do with any of Sid's success this season, than any other to date.
Sid plays with a lot less, while producing just as much or more. He also won the Richard this year, not too shabby for a play maker turned Sniper.
Irvine/prez. |
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Guest9910
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Posted - 05/06/2010 : 15:47:36
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"Crosby has played this season with far less talented forwards and linemates, than Ovechkin & Henrik."
Wow, you are totally right! Burrows is sooo much better than Evgeni Malkin. Same with Mikael Samuelsson. There really isn't any comparison between them, at all.
And I definitely agree that it isn't fair that Henrik gets to play with Roberto Luongo! I mean, he does all the work! Alberto Lulongo is the only reason Henrik Sedin finished with 112 points.
Okay, back to reality. Every single one of Burrows' 30+ goals were tap ins. Tap ins. The Sedins make it happen. Same with Sam-Yule-Log. All that guy does is shoot.
Luongo wasn't very hot this year, and I don't think anyone can dispute that.
H and D made s*** happen. Why do you think Anson Carter got 30+ goals that one year with the Nucks? Cus hes soo good!(no hes not). Neither is Burrows or Samuelson. All they have to do is shoot the puck, and be in position.
The Sedins are the rockinest guys on the ice. There is absolutely no way Burrows could get 30+ goals. Not Yule-Log either.
Daniel Sedin for Hart Trophy!
I mean Henrik.
And D Sedin also missed 1/4 of the season. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 18:37:30
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Thank you Guest9910 for making my point, by refferencing both Sedin's. Rather than just the one nominated.
The award goes to one player, who contributed to his teams success the most. So if Henrik has Daniel, it's not solely Henrik is it? Didn't think so. They both contribute to each others success, more so than Malkin does to Crosby, and more so than Backstrom to Ovechkin.
Also, I mentioned Luongo because one could argue that Luongo had just as much to do with the success of the Canucks, as Henrik Sedin. Or Daniel for that matter. See where I am getting at? There's three guys on this team, who have contributed to the success more so than just one single player.
And yes, Malkin is certainly better than Alex Burrows or Michael Samulesson. But one could argue where Daniel Sedin and Evgeni Malkin size up, especially this season. And, Burrows & Samuelsson are better than Guerin, perhaps even Kunitz. Okay, they are better than Kunitz.
Perhaps before you rant, you should really read what one says. No one said Malkin wasn't better than Burrows & Samuelsson, no one said Luongo contributed to Henrik's point totals. But, perhaps now you understand what was being said. I believe this makes my thoughts pretty clear.
And if you disagree, that's fine. But don't go on ranting, taking this way out of context.
Irvine/prez. |
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Guest9910
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Posted - 05/06/2010 : 19:01:59
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Daniel missed 1/4 of the season, and Roberto Luongo was not the Alberto Lulongo that weve gotten to know this season.
Henrik, who is the play maker of the Sedins, was the one who made the players around him better ( Burrows and Yule-Log ).
How dare you have an opinion other than mine! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 19:06:43
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Irv, don't you love it when someone tries to argue against you and unbeknownst to them, they actually help your side of the argument?
While i don't agree with the Luongo argument you put forth, i do agree with your pick of Crosby this year if for no other reason than him having a subpar Malkin to play sporadically with and even then, mostly on the power play. His regular linemates are not comparable to those of Sedin or Ovechkin. As far as Luongo goes, i actually believe he will help Hank get some votes he wouldn't normally get if Luongo was playing his best. This year, he was far from it and the Canucks, which are always considered "Lou's team", seemed more like Hank's team.
While i still think both Ovie and Hank have a shot at the Hart, they wouldn't get my vote. The Richard trophy was pretty much an exclamation point on what i would call a Hart worthy season for Crosby. |
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Hart trophy.... 
