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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
 Posted - 05/14/2010 : 11:18:09
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Some of you have probably seen this on TSN's website > http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=321531 <
Basically, the question is whether or not players should be able to say no to representing their country internationally.
With the Worlds going on the Russian team has been bolstered with the likes of Ovechkin, Malkin, and Datsyuk. On the other hand, Canadian players like Dion Phaneuf and, most recently, Sidney Crosby have declined the chance to play for Canada.
On the one hand, playing for your country is supposed to be the ultimate honour but on the other players have played a long season plus the Olympics and deserve some rest. (In Crosby's case 94/95 games for the Pens and seven more at the Olympics).
So, what do you think the obligation of players to their countries should be, if any?
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Edited by - spade632 on 05/14/2010 11:18:56
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 12:37:01
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quote:
So, what do you think the obligation of players to their countries should be, if any?
Once the season is done, there is no obligation for them to do anything, ever. I hate all this talk about obligation - players can do what they like once the season is done.
I don't blame Crosby for saying no - in an Olympic year and after the playoffs, he's played a lot of hockey, he earned a rest. Canada has a deep enough talent pool that we don't *need* Crosby to play. I don't know why everyone is getting on his case about it |
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 13:01:06
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Malkin and Gonchar who've played just about as much as Crosby are playing (and Datsyuk and Ovechkin).
While players certainly have the right to decline invitations to play internationally (as you say, there's no obligation - they're not being paid by Hockey Canada), you'd like to think it would be more like Steve Yzerman who basically played on one leg in the Olympics in 2002) or Ryan Smyth who constantly represents Canada internationally and the players would go as a matter of national pride and playing for your country.
I understand that the grind of an NHL season and the playoff (plus the Olympics this year) is tiring and that players deserve a rest but if I were invited to join Team Canada I'd be on the first plane I could get to join the team if I was in any shape at all to play. |
Edited by - spade632 on 05/14/2010 13:03:50 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 15:06:39
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I think the Russians all went over to avenge a poor Olympic performance. There is real incentive for them to win something this year. Also, most of them live in Russia during the offseason, so a trip to Europe in May is simply a stopover on the way home.
Besides, I don't think you can compare what Crosby goes through in a year to Malkin and Gonchar. Crosby plays the same amount of games, but he is called on to do a lot of things outside of the rink on a daily basis - its part of the gig of being one of the biggest stars and best representative for your sport. Interviews, autograph sessions, meetings, etc. OV probably has the same sort of schedule, but like I said, the Russians have to prove that they're a real hockey team at least once this year 
IMO he has a long year, and has played more games than most NHL'ers over the last 3 years, and deserves the right to say no once in a while. Its not like he's never represented Canada before - just not this time.
I think any of us non-NHL players would jump on a plane to go play - to us its a dream just to be able to play hockey at that sort of level. However, until we've played a full season in the NHL, you can't say that you would do it all the time in every situation. |
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Guest8605
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Posted - 05/14/2010 : 16:16:19
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| The tournament is garbage. I wish they would stop broadcasting it and leave players who don't want to go alone. Its fine if they want to go but any sense of obligation is ridiculous. |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 21:58:19
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What Other Major sport in the world has a world competition yearly? That is ridiculous.
The Olympics and IIHF World Cup are enough by themselves, but to tag an extra tournament every year? Plain ridiculous. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2010 : 14:56:58
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For this tournament, I don't feel players should feel pressured in to playing. If they decline, fine by me.
Mainly, due to the time it occurs (NHL Playoffs).
The Olympics on the other hand, i'd be dissapointed of a player turned down an offer, if the reason was for something other than injury or family.
Irvine/prez. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2010 : 19:57:05
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I think a player should do what he can to represent his country but there are limits to it. Crosby, for example, played deep into the playoffs for three straight years as well as played in the Olympics.
Phaneuf on the other hand, has been doing what for the past 6 weeks?? Is he just pissy because he didn't get picked for the Olympics??
Another thing that has not been mentioned yet is that many of the European born players spend in off season in their home countries. So it's almost like Ovechkin and Datsuyk and Malkin et al are just taking a pit stop on their way home for the summer.
Just my take anyway |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2010 : 11:40:41
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polishexpress makes a good point about how hockey, unlike other sports, has an annual championship.
One way or the other, I find it completely acceptable for players to play in that tournament, or pass, as they see fit. |
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Guest9270
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Posted - 05/16/2010 : 15:19:34
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I think we all agree that their should be no obligation. And I agree with Beans about Crosby not going because of his tough scheduled he had in the past few years.
And I'm also really surprised Phaneuf didn't go. I mean this tournament is a great opportunity to prove you deserve a spot on the next olympic team, or World Cup team (if there's a next one). I know Doughty got picked on this year Olympic team because of his play at the tournament last year.
I don't really know the story behind Phaneuf, as playoff hockey is taking all my attention lately, so I wont judge him, but I'm still surprised and disapointed he didn't go. Considering he still has a lot to prove and he's still very young.
I find this tournament fun because it's a chance to see all the young stars play. Tavares, Duchene, Myers, Eberle, Stamkos and many more... |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2010 : 15:20:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9270
I think we all agree that their should be no obligation. And I agree with Beans about Crosby not going because of his tough scheduled he had in the past few years.
And I'm also really surprised Phaneuf didn't go. I mean this tournament is a great opportunity to prove you deserve a spot on the next olympic team, or World Cup team (if there's a next one). I know Doughty got picked on this year Olympic team because of his play at the tournament last year.
I don't really know the story behind Phaneuf, as playoff hockey is taking all my attention lately, so I wont judge him, but I'm still surprised and disapointed he didn't go. Considering he still has a lot to prove and he's still very young.
I find this tournament fun because it's a chance to see all the young stars play. Tavares, Duchene, Myers, Eberle, Stamkos and many more...
I wrote this. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2010 : 18:01:27
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| personally i dont blame phaneuf ( and others ) for not playing if they don`t want to. i love hockey but i don`t even watch this tourney, don`t interest me. some countries have all their players available some don`t...so WHAT DOES IT PROVE ?? no they shouldn`t be obligated to play. once the payroll stops, its time off like every other canadian ... |
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Guest4095
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Posted - 05/17/2010 : 17:44:03
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| the only reason why Ovie, Dats, Kovie, Malkin, and all those other Russian's decided to play was because of their crappy showing at the Olympics (again). this seems to be the only international hockey tournament they can win......when the other teams don't have their best line up. |
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Guest9423
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Posted - 05/20/2010 : 20:24:38
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I find this tournament brings the out the most players that love the game.
Who wouldn't wanna travel over seas every year and play with your country men. The tired excuses is complete bulls*** there professional athletes.
To me players who don't play just show how much they love the game compared to the money there getting paid.
Sure if there injured don't play but come on wheres the joy of playing the game like all kids dream of. |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 20:44:23
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I'm sorry, but it is not bull manure, guest 9423, to say they are tired.
The physical wear and tear ofNHL athletes that actually make the playoffs every year and play for their country very often (ie Crosby) do have a right to say they are tired.
Even if they are not "injured" they could be physically worn out. They are being paid salaries by employers, and owe it to them to keep themselves fairly fresh.
Look at it mathematically. If they play about 95 games in a year, on average, for the whole year, that is game every 3.8 days. You try playing every 4 days or so. And add in daily exercise. Add in practice. Oh yeah, add in having a life or taking care of a family. Of course the tired excuse is legitimate. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 20:55:02
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I can understand a little where Guest is coming from.
These are guys in great physical condition, who are playing sports. Something that, most of us play on weekends, after working 5 or more days a week.
But, with that being said. They are entitled to being tired, like the rest of us. If i'm tired, I simply do not do something. If, I don't have to.
They have daily workouts (although, some of us do this too), practice and games. But the big factor, is likely travel. They travel every other day. Which, can be tiring in it self.
So, if a player says they are tired. I'm fine by that. Especially, for this tournament.
If a young player turned down the World Juniors, I'd say it was god awful. And likely, would not like seeing them even make the NHL after that. For, lack of effort.
If they turned down the Olympics, i'd be disapointed.
This is once every 4 years, and to me, is the largest International Ice Hockey Tournament there is... besides the World Juniors.
Irvine/prez. |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 20:57:36
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Here is some more math for you, guest 9423. If a player plays for a for a full season, that is 82 games in the span of October to mid April. That is six and a half months, approximately 195 days (30x6.5). Now, 195/82= 2.38. That means on average, during the regular season, they are playing a game every 2 days or so.
Don't you think that it reasonable to be tired after a full season, playing a game every 2 days on average? (This isn't counting practices and other things I mentioned above)
Then add the playoffs. We all know how much more taxing the playoffs are.
(PS Sorry Irvine, this comment was being written before I saw your post, didn't mean to be beating a dead horse)
Now, I love hockey and couldn't imagine being paid to play, but there are physical limits even for professionals. We have to admit that some will not be able to play in the second rate IIHF world championship.
So, it is not bull manure that the players use the excuse that they are tired. It is bull manure not to use the excuse. |
Edited by - polishexpress on 05/20/2010 20:59:01 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 01:19:30
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| You know what the worst part would be though......a supposedly "tired" guy goes, whether he's forced to or just decides to, and plays poorly. Maybe he is legitimately tired but you know darn well that you'll hear the negative comments about his play! For some, it appears to be a "lose lose" situation. |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 05/21/2010 : 08:22:33
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If it's expected that players should represent their country when asked, then Ryan Smyth is no "hero." He's doing what is expected, nothing more, nothing less.
I don't think there should be an expectation for a player to answer the call every time, so I think Ryan Smyth deserves the extra praise. Conversely, if a player continuously declines to answer the call to play for his country, he deserves some scorn.
I can't think of any player who fall into that category though. Crosby certainly does not. He's shown a great commitment to representing his country, and for once, he declines. Give the kid a break. He deserves it, especially for his performance at the Olympics, and also, for the grind he goes through during the regular season (which is more than most players), and for two playoff rounds.
Personally, I think the World Championships are not that important, so I can understand a player saying no. Whenever you have a "world championship" without the best players playing, what kind of championship do you really have? That's why the Olympics meant very little to a lot of hockey fans (Canadians for sure) until they allowed professionals to play.
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Guest4903
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Posted - 05/21/2010 : 10:39:52
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I agree with players like Crosby, Brodeur, Luongo and so forth not going to the world champs because they were ousted in the playoffs and had long seasons with the Olympics.
But a player like Phaneuf saying no after he didn't make the Olympic team and got a rest for that period and then didn't make the playoffs on top of it should have gone. Hockey Canada is going to think twice about taking a player like him next go around for something major and rightfully so. Just because you aren't playing solidly enough to make the Olympic team doesn't mean you should snub Hockey Canada on a tourney like this.
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Rookie
Top Prospect
Canada
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2010 : 11:21:28
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| I agree with what Beans has said. European born players are just making one last stop before heading home after the post season to their families while others like Crosby probably wants some time alone after a long earned break. I doubt Crosby could have much time alone with his family after he won the cup last year,so perhaps he wants to make it up this time. On the other hand Dion Phaneuf hasn't been in the playoffs this season and been doing nothing so I don't have a clue about him. And from my perspective Russian players this year want to play in the world championship because they wanted to avenge their defeat in the bigger stage,the Olympics,which they did by eliminating Canada. |
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Topic |
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Saying No to your Country 
